Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

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ekid
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Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by ekid » Wed May 31, 2017 12:40 pm

Brett Arends at Marketwatch says time to diversify out of the US$ and get a second passport if possible.

I have a large position already in EM and Total International (relative to my liquid investable assets). At Vanguard, with no other holdings except farmland in US. In view of FATCA, can I send some hundred thousand (or multiple) to Canada; holding it in Canadian $ if I declare it to IRS? Is there a Vanguard type investment vehicle in Canada?

Can you suggest a feasible alternate?

And can I qualify for an additional passport thereby?

mhalley
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by mhalley » Wed May 31, 2017 12:59 pm

if you think things are that bad i would buy bullets and mres. dont listen to the crazies, stay the course. Diversifiying out of the us is one thing, getting second passports and setting up foreign accounts is something else. Got to sell those newsletters someway I guess.
Having money offshore is not illegal, but hiding it is. But this is all totally unneccessary.
http://nomadcapitalist.com/2015/07/29/h ... e-account/
There is a sister site for canadians
http://www.financialwisdomforum.org/
Last edited by mhalley on Wed May 31, 2017 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ekid
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by ekid » Wed May 31, 2017 1:06 pm

These kinds of things have to be set up in advance. At point of need it's too late.

But please DO NOT make this political. I desire a practical answer. I'm an international traveler but scared badly about FATCA.

an_asker
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by an_asker » Wed May 31, 2017 1:11 pm

ekid wrote:These kinds of things have to be set up in advance. At point of need it's too late.

But please DO NOT make this political. I desire a practical answer. I'm an international traveler but scared badly about FATCA.
You could of course purchase the FXC :-) I don't think they limit you - you could dump your several hundred thousand into it!

ddurrett896
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by ddurrett896 » Wed May 31, 2017 1:13 pm

What would be the reason to have a second passport?

Random Poster
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by Random Poster » Wed May 31, 2017 1:19 pm

ekid wrote:Brett Arends at Marketwatch says time to diversify out of the US$ and get a second passport if possible.

I have a large position already in EM and Total International (relative to my liquid investable assets). At Vanguard, with no other holdings except farmland in US. In view of FATCA, can I send some hundred thousand (or multiple) to Canada; holding it in Canadian $ if I declare it to IRS? Is there a Vanguard type investment vehicle in Canada?

Can you suggest a feasible alternate?

And can I qualify for an additional passport thereby?
If you want a Canadian bank account, you will need to have the appropriate paperwork in place in order to do so. In my experience, this requires (at a minimum) a social insurance number, which I obtained by virtue of having a Canadian work permit (which I obtained through a job transfer with my employer).

I do not believe that it is possible to just walk into a Canadian bank and open up a bank account, but I could be wrong. Regardless, I wouldn't expect to earn much in way of interest from any such account.

In any event, FATCA does not prohibit you from having thousands of dollars in a Canadian bank account, but it does make your tax returns and tax reporting a bit more complicated. Canadian banks have a lot of experience dealing with US-imposed regulations, and they are probably better than most any other non-US bank in terms of accepting US citizens' accounts (presuming that you are one).

Vanguard does have some Canadian offerings, but---again---I'm pretty sure that you will need a social insurance number in order to open up an account with their Canadian arm. And if you go this route, you really need to familiarize yourself with the IRS rules on foreign accounts and the reporting thereof, and the rules/regulations on what kind of investments you can have as a US citizen (again, presuming that you are one).

In regards to the passport issue, I think that Canada got rid of their investor visa program a few years ago, but the short answer is that just having a bank account and some investments in Canada won't--in and of itself---qualify you for a passport.

ekid
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by ekid » Wed May 31, 2017 1:33 pm

Yes, my citizenship and passport is US.

Ecuador is unsatisfactory because they use the US$.
DIVERSIFICATION is the name of the game- perhaps a thought experiment. I have real-estate which should do well in a case of inflation but cannot flee; the $ would get weaker in tandem with inflation?

I am a minority, retired, with a grandchild, thinking about 20th century history. People all over the world provide for their family this way.

misterno
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by misterno » Wed May 31, 2017 2:15 pm

I would just buy Canadian ADRs

They will be the safest way to invest Canada with no hurdles at all

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nisiprius
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by nisiprius » Wed May 31, 2017 3:03 pm

It would be helpful if you gave a link to Brett Arends' column so we can see what he actually says. I can't find the specific column you're referring to. Whether or not you're intending to be political, some of his recent "ROI" columns seem to me to be overtly political.

Whenever I've thought about this, the conclusion I've come to is, forget it. There isn't some simple, cheap easy thing I can do that will act as a magic shield of invulnerability against a financial collapse of my home country. It's not as simple as boosting my international allocation or mailing a few forms overseas.

Keep in mind that when things seriously go sour in a country, one of the things that often happens is that the country will impose currency controls and put limits on individuals moving meaningful amounts of assets across borders.

For example, this has happened in Venezuela. (I don't remember the complicated details, but a couple of years ago it was reported that it was impossible to book flights out of Caracas even though planes were leaving with 2/3rds of their seats unoccupied. The reason was that there were four different exchange rates and people who could prove they were traveling could much more dollars-per-bolivar than otherwise... and a plane ticket was proof of traveling. So people were buying plane tickets with no real intention of flying, just to qualify for the good exchange rate).

Since you don't now when the controls will be clamped down, you need to get your assets moved well in advance--at a time when everything still looks normal and fine and you can still get an ATM machine in Amsterdam to dispense Euros by swiping your U.S. ATM card.

In my fantasy-explorations, you couldn't make this work unless you had a destination picked out and had already made extensive and costly preparations to move overseas. In addition to having financial accounts in your destination country, it would be a really good idea to have a place to live, a job, and knowledge of the language. All this would be largely wasted money if the catastrophe did not occur.

And of course there's a lot of risk in picking the destination country--it's all for nought if you pick the wrong one. In the 1970s--spooked perhaps by the U.S. going off the gold standard and presidential turmoil--Venezuela would have looked like a pretty good place to go. (Remember the James Bond novels, SPECTRE kept all its assets in Swiss francs and Venezuelan bolivars, "the soundest currencies in the world.")
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Ethelred
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by Ethelred » Wed May 31, 2017 3:28 pm

nisiprius wrote:It would be helpful if you gave a link to Brett Arends' column so we can see what he actually says. I can't find the specific column you're referring to. Whether or not you're intending to be political, some of his recent "ROI" columns seem to me to be overtly political.
That surprises me - I found it as the first search hit for "Brett Arends second passport".

I'm not going to link it here, though, as it is certainly overtly political, as you suspected.

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Pajamas
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by Pajamas » Wed May 31, 2017 3:30 pm

It would be easier to just sell everything, buy gold bullion and 90% silver bags, and store it in your fully-equipped and -armed fortified underground shelter in your backyard.

BlackStrat
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by BlackStrat » Wed May 31, 2017 3:41 pm

Is Marketwatch causing problems again?

:oops:

normaldude
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by normaldude » Wed May 31, 2017 3:47 pm

ekid wrote:In view of FATCA, can I send some hundred thousand (or multiple) to Canada; holding it in Canadian $ if I declare it to IRS? Is there a Vanguard type investment vehicle in Canada?
If a US person (US citizen, US greencard) holds non-US domiciled mutual funds or ETFs, they will get crushed by PFIC tax treatment & paperwork.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Passive ... nt_company

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Taxatio ... .28PFIC.29

In general, US persons (US citizen, US greencard) should stick to US-domiciled funds & ETFs, to avoid PFIC issues.

Overseas bank accounts are fine, but make sure you file your FBAR & FATCA forms.

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David Jay
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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by David Jay » Wed May 31, 2017 3:56 pm

Just stop oogling the financial porn.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius

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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by Valuethinker » Wed May 31, 2017 4:12 pm

ekid wrote:Brett Arends at Marketwatch says time to diversify out of the US$ and get a second passport if possible.

I have a large position already in EM and Total International (relative to my liquid investable assets). At Vanguard, with no other holdings except farmland in US. In view of FATCA, can I send some hundred thousand (or multiple) to Canada; holding it in Canadian $ if I declare it to IRS? Is there a Vanguard type investment vehicle in Canada?

Can you suggest a feasible alternate?

And can I qualify for an additional passport thereby?
Speaking as a non us citizen.

Please do not take what is said on anonymous website as truth.

Read govt of Canada websites and speak to the consulate.

The high net worth programme was terminated I believe.

Canada is too close to America to be much of a haven. I believe they were even deporting us military deserters since Iraq invasion.

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Re: Personal capital flight to non-US$, NOT Political!

Post by LadyGeek » Wed May 31, 2017 9:03 pm

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