Cost of Dental Implant

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jebmke
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by jebmke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:29 am

toofache32 wrote:
mouses wrote:
toofache32 wrote:
Medical insurance very rarely pays anything for teeth. The biggest problem is finding a dentist to work on "contingency" to do the work and hope insurance pays....most (rightfully so) will require you to pay up front and it's the patient's fight to get reimbursed from THEIR insurance.
I think I'm correct in saying that everything that has ever been done to my teeth by an oral surgeon was covered by my medical insurance.
My experience as an oral surgeon has been exactly the opposite. I lost big on some cases before I finally saw the light and dropped all medical insurance so I would no longer be contractually forced to purchase my patients' healthcare for them. In my office I have a framed pre-authorization for an implant case. They decided not to pay and I had to eat over $10,000. Now that I am no longer in-network with medical, it's the patient's fight, not mine. There were many other more subtle gotchas were (on multiple occasions) they paid me $54 for a bone graft that cost me almost $200 just to purchase the graft. As an in-network provider there was nothing I could do. I was BUYING healthcare for my patients.

Contract of Adhesion: https://www.irmi.com/online/insurance-g ... tract.aspx
When I had my implant done, the oral surgeon sat down with me and explained it as follows. "The tooth has a crack in the root (as shown by the endo photos). There is a mild infection that the endo has treated. Leaving the tooth in place risks a medical problem. As a result, your insurance company will pay for the extraction (he checked). Since it is perfectly viable to close the gum and leave a gap, putting in an implant is not a medical necessity and not covered by your insurance. "

I had the means to go full implant. I did pre-pay for all the non-covered work.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

hudson
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by hudson » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:55 am

I find the comments on this discussion to be extremely useful. I liked the information about implants in general, about prices, and about insurance.
It's nice to get opinions from users and providers!

toofache32
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by toofache32 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:40 pm

jebmke wrote:
toofache32 wrote:
mouses wrote:
toofache32 wrote:
Medical insurance very rarely pays anything for teeth. The biggest problem is finding a dentist to work on "contingency" to do the work and hope insurance pays....most (rightfully so) will require you to pay up front and it's the patient's fight to get reimbursed from THEIR insurance.
I think I'm correct in saying that everything that has ever been done to my teeth by an oral surgeon was covered by my medical insurance.
My experience as an oral surgeon has been exactly the opposite. I lost big on some cases before I finally saw the light and dropped all medical insurance so I would no longer be contractually forced to purchase my patients' healthcare for them. In my office I have a framed pre-authorization for an implant case. They decided not to pay and I had to eat over $10,000. Now that I am no longer in-network with medical, it's the patient's fight, not mine. There were many other more subtle gotchas were (on multiple occasions) they paid me $54 for a bone graft that cost me almost $200 just to purchase the graft. As an in-network provider there was nothing I could do. I was BUYING healthcare for my patients.

Contract of Adhesion: https://www.irmi.com/online/insurance-g ... tract.aspx
When I had my implant done, the oral surgeon sat down with me and explained it as follows. "The tooth has a crack in the root (as shown by the endo photos). There is a mild infection that the endo has treated. Leaving the tooth in place risks a medical problem. As a result, your insurance company will pay for the extraction (he checked). Since it is perfectly viable to close the gum and leave a gap, putting in an implant is not a medical necessity and not covered by your insurance. "

I had the means to go full implant. I did pre-pay for all the non-covered work.
What would your response have been if the insurance said they would cover the extraction, but after the extraction, the insurance changed their mind and decided not to pay, resulting in the bill getting shifted to you? This was the scenario I was dealt with routinely when I was an in-network provider.

jebmke
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by jebmke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:58 pm

I would have ultimately paid the bill if the insurance company did not cover it.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

toofache32
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by toofache32 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:13 pm

jebmke wrote:I would have ultimately paid the bill if the insurance company did not cover it.
Most people won't pay. "That's between the doctor and the insurance company" is the common mindset.

Jackson12
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by Jackson12 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:42 am

izmeeh wrote:Hi,

Without dental insurance, how much should I expect to pay from start to finish for All-on-4/6/8 dental implant? All teeth have been removed. I saw some reviews on Yelp mentioning $50K. Is that on the high side? Average? The dentists I have called are not willing to give me a price range unless I go in for a consultation. I'm in San Jose, California, but I wonder if it would be worth it to go to another state for the procedure. I understand it would be cheaper to do this in another country, but I'm worry about potential complications. Thank you.
There may be options for assistance If cost is a concern.

Do you happen to have an FSA or HSA? Ours could be used to help pay for implants and any dental procedures. There is also another option to help with costs ( see below)

Another option: some implant specialists offer no interest payment plans, for a limited time of 1-2 years, through popular credit companies catering to the patients of doctors and dentists. . ( the info below duplicates another post I wrote earlier in this thread but forgot I wrote, apologies

One huge caveat if you use this option. While it may be true that yoo will indeed owe no interest if payment is made within the time frame of the offer ( 1 year, 2 years, whatever)...it is also possible that you will be making paymemts to a company where interest accrues from the date the offer starts.

In other words, if you owe even one dollar after your no interest period expires, you will pay the accrued interest on the total amount of the loan, starting from the original date of the contract..

This did not happen to us and the payment plan worked out just fine. This was only because I called the company - early on -"to specify the terms of the contract. Online reviews of the company also provided much info.
Last edited by Jackson12 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jackson12
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by Jackson12 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:56 am

toofache32 wrote:
Jackson12 wrote:I had implants done and the cost was $12,000 for 3 teeth. I had an excellent dental surgeon.

Here's a warning about payment plans: please look very carefully at the terms for " zero interest offers" for a limited time period. If you pay the balance before interest kicks in, no problem...as I'm sure most here already know.

But there is a very popular company which offers payment plans ( can I list company names here?) where there is a "gotcha" and it almost got me. This company is often used by customers paying for dental services.

If you use the zero interest promotion and your account is not paid in full within the promotional period, you not only get hit with high interest- but that interest is calculated from the original purchase date, Making it a significantly larger amount than if it was interest accrued on the balance only after the promotional period ended. -

Thus means that even if you owe only one dollar after the promotional period ends, you'll pay interest accrued from the original purchase date.
There are several companies out there that offer credit for healthcare services. Care Credit is probably the biggest. Like all zero-interest products, they are only a good deal if paid off within the 12-18 month period. This is spelled out at the beginning, although I'm sure many people don't read their contracts.
Yes, that's the company..,and no, based on online reviews, many people don't read their contracts...and to be fair to those people, the terms aren't always easy to understand. That's why I called to double check .

I just wrote a post which duplicated much of my earlier one but added info about FSA and HSA options. Sometimes it's assumed they can be used only to pay doctors..not dental specialists.

Barefootgirl
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by Barefootgirl » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:10 pm

As a heavy consumer of dental services, I can relate to a lot of this.

A few words -

I would expect follow up to be an issue anywhere, so make sure you can get back, if you can, if not - you might have to pay a second provider? I'd be tempted to have this work done in a University dental school where the work is supervised by dentists.

There are top notch dental services to be found outside the U.S. and yes, shoddy work has to be redone - but I've also had shoddy work in the U.S. that had to be redone in the U.S. Due diligence is key here. The key is whether you can get back for follow up in a reasonable manner, if you need to.

Prices in HCOL areas are higher than LCOL areas, understandably. Need to visit any relatives in a LCOL area?

Good luck.
How many retired people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Only one, but he takes all day.

izmeeh
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by izmeeh » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:36 pm

I'm a little confused with the different kinds of "permanent implants."

http://www.getdentalimplantstoday.com/Fees.htm

toofache32
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by toofache32 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:53 pm

izmeeh wrote:I'm a little confused with the different kinds of "permanent implants."

http://www.getdentalimplantstoday.com/Fees.htm
This borders on making medical recommendations which is a no-no here, but I'll keep it generic and let LadyGeek clean up my post as needed: everyone talks about price but it seems they assume quality. My bias is that I perform this treatment as a specialist who did over 6 years of training after dental school. Many who offer this have done weekend courses only. There are also many brand of implants out there...some have decades of research/tweaking while others have minimal long-term track record and are much cheaper. I choose to use the implants backed by decades of research which other brands try to copy. Yes these are more expensive. You have to ask yourself if you want a Honda or a BMW in your body. There is nothing inherently wrong with Honda's but there is a difference in some scenarios. Not all dentists agree.

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queso
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by queso » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:30 am

toofache32 wrote:
izmeeh wrote:I'm a little confused with the different kinds of "permanent implants."

http://www.getdentalimplantstoday.com/Fees.htm
This borders on making medical recommendations which is a no-no here, but I'll keep it generic and let LadyGeek clean up my post as needed: everyone talks about price but it seems they assume quality. My bias is that I perform this treatment as a specialist who did over 6 years of training after dental school. Many who offer this have done weekend courses only. There are also many brand of implants out there...some have decades of research/tweaking while others have minimal long-term track record and are much cheaper. I choose to use the implants backed by decades of research which other brands try to copy. Yes these are more expensive. You have to ask yourself if you want a Honda or a BMW in your body. There is nothing inherently wrong with Honda's but there is a difference in some scenarios. Not all dentists agree.
The Boglehead choice here would definitely be the Honda. If I had a BMW in my mouth it would cost a fortune and require expensive annual service. There would also be times when I would try to chew something and the tooth would randomly refuse to chew so I would have to bring my tooth in and get a loaner while you figure out the problem.

RDB
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by RDB » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:04 am

toofache32 wrote:
izmeeh wrote:I'm a little confused with the different kinds of "permanent implants."

http://www.getdentalimplantstoday.com/Fees.htm
This borders on making medical recommendations which is a no-no here, but I'll keep it generic and let LadyGeek clean up my post as needed: everyone talks about price but it seems they assume quality. My bias is that I perform this treatment as a specialist who did over 6 years of training after dental school. Many who offer this have done weekend courses only. There are also many brand of implants out there...some have decades of research/tweaking while others have minimal long-term track record and are much cheaper. I choose to use the implants backed by decades of research which other brands try to copy. Yes these are more expensive. You have to ask yourself if you want a Honda or a BMW in your body. There is nothing inherently wrong with Honda's but there is a difference in some scenarios. Not all dentists agree.
That is a really odd way of describing dental implants. I have owned a BMW, and currently own a Honda. My BMW was in the shop a lot, my Honda.....never. I am mostly teasing, but not sure I agree with your analogy. Also, I am a dentist with extensive implant training who places a very reputable brand of implants.

toofache32
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by toofache32 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:39 am

You're right that the car analogy is probably not accurate. What I was trying to convey is that not all implants are the same and there is a significant variation on how much it costs the dentist to purchase them. While you don't always get what you pay for, you will never get what you don't pay for.

RDB
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by RDB » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:33 pm

toofache32 wrote:You're right that the car analogy is probably not accurate. What I was trying to convey is that not all implants are the same and there is a significant variation on how much it costs the dentist to purchase them. While you don't always get what you pay for, you will never get what you don't pay for.
Agreed!

Freefun
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by Freefun » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:53 am

Wow. This forum is a veritable gold mine of information. I was going to post a question but found what I needed here already (same with the last 30 or so questions I had). Thanks to all.

Just found out I had a nasty infection where a crown was (work done over 20 years ago). So I had an extraction and implant - cost $3800. In 6 months I go to the dentist for the rest of the work and for all I know- another $2K.

So I wondered if this is reasonable. My take after reading experiences here - you get what you pay for and you should be comfortable with the people doing the work.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?

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queso
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by queso » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:05 pm

That doesn't seem out of line depending on your location. I am about $5400 into mine and have one more checkup with the oral surgeon and then back to my dentist for the tooth. Assuming you are right and the tooth is around 2k I expect to end up around the $7500 mark. I had to have a sinus lift so that added cost and complication to the issue.

blmarsha123
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by blmarsha123 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:43 pm

Very routine single implant and crown cost me $5700 (last year). No extraction (done years ago) or other complications. Declined anesthesia (took two Darvon instead), which saved me about $500 if I remember correctly.

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queso
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by queso » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:48 pm

blmarsha123 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:43 pm
Very routine single implant and crown cost me $5700 (last year). No extraction (done years ago) or other complications. Declined anesthesia (took two Darvon instead), which saved me about $500 if I remember correctly.
I declined anesthesia as well. I just looked back at my file and it would have been $885 higher if I had taken the anesthesia. After having been through extraction, sinus lift and implant I will say the implant was the easiest of the three and definitely not worthy of anesthesia. The extraction was the worst of the three mostly from all the tugging and yanking, etc. (#3 molar), but still wasn't really painful at all. The sinus lift hurt the most post-op (later on day 1 and part of day 2), but again nothing I would spend that kind of money to avoid pain-wise.

blmarsha123
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by blmarsha123 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:33 pm

queso wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:48 pm
blmarsha123 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:43 pm
Very routine single implant and crown cost me $5700 (last year). No extraction (done years ago) or other complications. Declined anesthesia (took two Darvon instead), which saved me about $500 if I remember correctly.
I declined anesthesia as well. I just looked back at my file and it would have been $885 higher if I had taken the anesthesia. After having been through extraction, sinus lift and implant I will say the implant was the easiest of the three and definitely not worthy of anesthesia. The extraction was the worst of the three mostly from all the tugging and yanking, etc. (#3 molar), but still wasn't really painful at all. The sinus lift hurt the most post-op (later on day 1 and part of day 2), but again nothing I would spend that kind of money to avoid pain-wise.
You're right; $800 (or more) is more like it. The $500 number was off the top of my head without checking.

keinodoggy
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by keinodoggy » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:51 pm

Why are these implants so expensive???

toofache32
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by toofache32 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:57 pm

keinodoggy wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:51 pm
Why are these implants so expensive???
Everyone here is talking about different things. Some are quoting prices for an implant only. Some are quoting what they paid for an implant and crown. Some of these quotes include complex bone grafts. Some of these quotes are for 1 tooth and some are for all teeth. This thread is all over the place.

Out of curiosity, what would you expect to pay for a single implant, abutment and crown? Replacing body parts is not cheap.
Last edited by toofache32 on Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

keinodoggy
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by keinodoggy » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:00 pm

toofache32 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:57 pm
keinodoggy wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:51 pm
Why are these implants so expensive???
Out of curiosity, what would you expect to pay for a single implant, abutment and crown?
Well if I understand this correctly, someone here stated "routine single implant and crown cost me $5700." So yes, I would say it is expensive.

toofache32
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by toofache32 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:11 pm

keinodoggy wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:00 pm
toofache32 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:57 pm
keinodoggy wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:51 pm
Why are these implants so expensive???
Out of curiosity, what would you expect to pay for a single implant, abutment and crown?
Well if I understand this correctly, someone here stated "routine single implant and crown cost me $5700." So yes, I would say it is expensive.
I didn't ask if you think it is expensive. I asked what folks here would expect to pay. People will always think it's expensive regardless of the price.
Last edited by toofache32 on Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Freefun
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by Freefun » Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:22 pm

Well I think 6-7k all in is expensive but I'm not complaining. I like the docs - both the oral surgeon and dentist are only 10 minutes from me - and I've known them a long time. This isn't something I'd shop for or do medical tourism. Based on others experience I think the charges are reasonable.

Thanks to all for sharing info.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?

InvisibleAerobar
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by InvisibleAerobar » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:21 pm

Getting it done at a teaching hospital is the way to go

Got mine done (3 implants + 3 abutments + 4-unit bridge) for less than 10k; this was seven years ago. They don't charge for labor, and they don't make money off the parts, so that is probably what the supplies cost the school. Dental surgeon residents did the implants, and post-graduate dentists did the abutment + crowns. I was told by my dentist that the school did a very good job.

I believe a comparable market-rate cost would be something like 30-40k, back at that time, perhaps more now.

mkatz
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by mkatz » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:19 pm

Just a comment on the “wisdom” of travelling for dental care of any type. Consider what might be required if a difficulty develops during treatment or as a result of treatment. Your dentist might get sick and have to reschedule at the last minute. A mechanical difficulty might develop during the treatment visit that requires remediation before the implant can be placed. Infection requiring treatment (e.g. implant removal and subsequent bone graft... or graft failure with delayed implant placement). Implant failure after crown/prosthesis placement. Implant fracture. Crown/prosthesis fracture. Occlusal (bite relationship concerns) trauma requiring bite adjustment. Etc...!

Executed carefully with appropriate planning and experience success rates are quite high but problems do occur. My office policy was that I would fix problems that arose following treatment in my office without additional fee; I charged and made lots of money fixing (or attempting to fix) problems that were caused by treatment in another office. :twisted:

criticalmass
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by criticalmass » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:58 pm

NJDMD wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:49 am
Hello -- I'm a general dentist in NJ -- PLEASE don't go to another country to have this done. I have seen too many cases of failing, poorly done dentistry done in other countries. The patients come back to the US and now have to pay to have things redone. It's awful.
That's a pretty broad and general statement, it seems to imply that dentistry done in USA is GOOD, dentistry done everywhere else in the world is BAD, and dentists in every country (save USA) are incompetent & can't figure out how to do quality work. My neighbor had an implant done in the USA (New York to be specific) and the implant fell out about 18 months later. Is that awful? She thought so.

When I lived oversees, I never dreamed of flying to USA every time I needed dental work done (which fortunately isn't often anyway). But I've had personally great experiences, and the facilities and dentists were superb, in fact better than I've experienced in USA.

There are lots of great dentists in many countries, including Mexico. But just like in the USA, you need to ensure you get a great one. And I agree that implants make taking a long trip less desirable due to the multiple visits and long periods between each visit.

gretah
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by gretah » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:28 am

NJDMD wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:49 am
Hello -- I'm a general dentist in NJ -- PLEASE don't go to another country to have this done. I have seen too many cases of failing, poorly done dentistry done in other countries. The patients come back to the US and now have to pay to have things redone. It's awful.
Oral surgeons in the Mexican city below Calif/Arizona (Los Algodones) have a 10% failure rate, according to a Canadian company who matches clients with dental surgeons and hotels. (I did some consulting for them.)

In US, Mexico, or anywhere else, it's important to find out the failure rate for an individual surgeon. In my large county, there is only one with a failure rate less than 4%. He is a jerk but people who can afford him line up for service.

mkatz
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by mkatz » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:38 am

gretah wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:28 am
NJDMD wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:49 am
Hello -- I'm a general dentist in NJ -- PLEASE don't go to another country to have this done. I have seen too many cases of failing, poorly done dentistry done in other countries. The patients come back to the US and now have to pay to have things redone. It's awful.
Oral surgeons in the Mexican city below Calif/Arizona (Los Algodones) have a 10% failure rate, according to a Canadian company who matches clients with dental surgeons and hotels. (I did some consulting for them.)

In US, Mexico, or anywhere else, it's important to find out the failure rate for an individual surgeon. In my large county, there is only one with a failure rate less than 4%. He is a jerk but people who can afford him line up for service.
Yes, here are “good” dentists (I think) in every country. (Note that I’m agreeing for the sake of argument. :happy ) Even the “good”ones experience clinical failures. (My professional failure rate was less than 2%; still, the cost of fixing the failures was significant.) Still, consider the cost of returning to an out-of-the-way location for remediation if you are he unfortunate recipient of one of those failures.

I do not mean to say or imply that medical tourism is unwise. As with any contemplated purchase, consider the potential costs (time, money, convenience) of all options.

keinodoggy
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by keinodoggy » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:22 am

toofache32 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:11 pm
keinodoggy wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:00 pm
toofache32 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:57 pm
keinodoggy wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:51 pm
Why are these implants so expensive???
Out of curiosity, what would you expect to pay for a single implant, abutment and crown?
Well if I understand this correctly, someone here stated "routine single implant and crown cost me $5700." So yes, I would say it is expensive.
I didn't ask if you think it is expensive. I asked what folks here would expect to pay. People will always think it's expensive regardless of the price.
Well the median family income in the US is about 60K so I would still consider that the replacement of one tooth costing almost 1/10 of their income a bit steep. I am sure there are many that can not afford this procedure and go without. Before I say what I think it should cost, I would need to know the fees and material costs. Healthcare providers need to be more transparent as to these costs like nearly every other product we purchase.

ralph124cf
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by ralph124cf » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:30 am

One variable that has been mentioned, but not emphasized, here is the bone graft.

If you do not need a bone graft the cost will be substantially less and the total time for the procedure may be shortened by several months.

This, of course, is not something that you can self diagnose, and is also something about which different dentists may disagree. Second and third opinions are worth paying for.

Ralph

bighatnohorse
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Re: Cost of Dental Implant

Post by bighatnohorse » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:53 am

I responded to an TV ad by a company called "Clear Choice" for a free evaluation for implants (they do 4 on one, etc).
They were very professional and the results were that they did not recommend the 4 on one for me as my mouth was too healthy.
Cost was appropriate to Bogleheads. ($zero$)
You might check to see if they still do free evaluations.

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