Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

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red_uu
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Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by red_uu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:09 am

I am divorced and own a house and some investment accounts. My fiancee doesn't have much in assets (he really got cleaned out in his divorce, but is on a good path).

If all my accounts are in my name and my house is also in my name, do I need a prenup? I live in Virginia and it looks like these assets would be considered pre-marital in the event of a divorce, as long as I don't contribute to them with marital funds.

Opinions? Thanks!

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:13 am

I would consult with a qualified attorney. Each state is different.
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by qwertyjazz » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:16 am

red_uu wrote:I am divorced and own a house and some investment accounts. My fiancee doesn't have much in assets (he really got cleaned out in his divorce, but is on a good path).

If all my accounts are in my name and my house is also in my name, do I need a prenup? I live in Virginia and it looks like these assets would be considered pre-marital in the event of a divorce, as long as I don't contribute to them with marital funds.

Opinions? Thanks!


Not legal advice
+1 on consult a local lawyer

You are not going to be contributing house mainetenance, taxes and utilities from marriage funds?

Congrats on the pending nuptials
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red_uu
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by red_uu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:21 am

qwertyjazz wrote:
red_uu wrote:I am divorced and own a house and some investment accounts. My fiancee doesn't have much in assets (he really got cleaned out in his divorce, but is on a good path).

If all my accounts are in my name and my house is also in my name, do I need a prenup? I live in Virginia and it looks like these assets would be considered pre-marital in the event of a divorce, as long as I don't contribute to them with marital funds.

Opinions? Thanks!


Not legal advice
+1 on consult a local lawyer

You are not going to be contributing house mainetenance, taxes and utilities from marriage funds?

Congrats on the pending nuptials


He has some student loans that he will be paying off for quite a while, so I will probably be paying the mortgage as I have been for maybe five years?

I was wondering if in the event of a split, he would also get half of the money that I already have in equity (currently about 90K) or whether he would get half of the equity gained since the beginning of the marriage?

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by CoAndy » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:29 am

I believe each state is different. In a lot of states, in the event of divorce, you would split the equity in the home that has been gained since the marriage. However, as stated above, each state has their own laws. I would check yours for peace of mind.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by CAsage » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:31 am

You just went through a divorce. You are considering a second marriage where you are going in with unequal assets, and you have two minor children. I would definitely get a pre-nup, and see a lawyer. You need to find out what the rules are in your state about property ownership, how to title and maintain and mix (or don't mix) those assets..... so you don't risk it. I would get a prenup in your position. You could possibly put the current savings in a completely separate bank/account, but you are still paying on the mortgage so having the house in your name is ... well who knows.

SEE A LAWYER in your state, for at least a consultation. Then decide about the prenup.
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Steelersfan » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:41 am

In many (most?) states, both parties have to have separate legal counsel to ensure that one party doesn't have undue influence on the other.

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8foot7
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by 8foot7 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:43 am

Went through this in NC a few years ago. Ultimately the house remained separate property but the gains since marriage (including appreciation and "sweat equity" through self renovations) were subject to split.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Swansea » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:46 am

Proposing a prenup to your intended can often cause you to receive a frosty reception, but one needs to do what one feels is best.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by red_uu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:50 am

Swansea wrote:Proposing a prenup to your intended can often cause you to receive a frosty reception, but one needs to do what one feels is best.


OP here - that is what I am concerned about. He is a family friend and from what I can tell is a very principled person with a lot of integrity. I can't see him ever getting greedy or ugly. He was more than generous with his ex-wife, to a fault. He treats his young daughter like gold and makes sure she gets everything she needs.

I don't want to go the prenup route if possible, but also don't want to throw away my future.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Call_Me_Op » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:54 am

red_uu wrote: I can't see him ever getting greedy or ugly.


Then he should not mind signing a pre-nup, right?

Do you think anyone just getting married can envision their partner getting greedy or ugly?
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Da5id » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:56 am

Swansea wrote:Proposing a prenup to your intended can often cause you to receive a frosty reception, but one needs to do what one feels is best.


I think "it is to protect the children" might go over better than "it is to protect me". But yes, of course it could be an awkward conversation.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by red_uu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:02 am

Call_Me_Op wrote:
red_uu wrote: I can't see him ever getting greedy or ugly.


Then he should not mind signing a pre-nup, right?

Do you think anyone just getting married can envision their partner getting greedy or ugly?


You're right - I guess I am just trying to determine whether I need one if the state already says that my pre-marriage assets remain mine in the event of divorce, and he would only get half of any gained home equity after we are married (which I think is fair - he will likely be contributing something).

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by RudyS » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:27 am

I would suggest you see a lawyer (maybe can get a free initial consultation), as has been suggested a few times earlier, to verify just what the state law is in the absence of a pre-nup, and then determine the need for one. Although there are some very knowledgeable folks here, it's risky to rely on this or any forum for legal advice.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by HomerJ » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:31 am

My wife was divorced before she married me and she had two small children with her previous husband. She had a decent sized portfolio from the divorce (about the same as you). I was just starting my career, was broke, and still had some student loans at the time.

She asked me to sign a prenup before we got married. She stressed how she needed to protect her kids. You could probably use the same argument.

I was perfectly happy to sign it. It felt like a way to prove I wasn't marrying her for her money.

I did have a friend who asked me, "If she wants a prenup, that means she's already thinking that the marriage won't work"

I said "If I don't sign it, that means I'm thinking the marriage won't work. Besides, it's completely fair. I don't want any of her money from before the marriage."

Remember, a prenup means nothing if the couple stay together. And since I believed we would stay together, and because I felt it was a fair document, it was very easy to sign. We've been married almost 20 years now.
Last edited by HomerJ on Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by bsteiner » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:33 am

If you die first, absent an agreement, he would be entitled to a portion of your estate, called the elective share. I found this article on the Virginia elective share written by a trusts and estates lawyer in a large firm in Virginia, which might be useful, though I haven't checked to see whether it's accurate: http://www.natlawreview.com/article/est ... e-virginia.

If you get divorced, absent an agreement, your marital property is subject to equitable distribution (division). What's considered marital property varies from state to state. A lawyer in Virginia can probably give you a sense of what the equitable distribution would likely be in your situation, though it's up to the court to decide at the time based on the facts and circumstances at the time. The amount of alimony you might receive or might have to pay is also up to the court.

If you want to make different provisions, and to have greater certainty of result (nothing is 100% certain, and I was involved in a case a few years ago where the surviving spouse successfully challenged a prenuptial agreement, though the case was settled on appeal), but reasonable agreements are generally upheld.

RudyS wrote:I would suggest you see a lawyer (maybe can get a free initial consultation), as has been suggested a few times earlier, to verify just what the state law is in the absence of a pre-nup, and then determine the need for one. Although there are some very knowledgeable folks here, it's risky to rely on this or any forum for legal advice.


The free lawyer might only be worth what you pay for his/her time.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by red_uu » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:08 pm

bsteiner wrote:If you die first, absent an agreement, he would be entitled to a portion of your estate, called the elective share. I found this article on the Virginia elective share written by a trusts and estates lawyer in a large firm in Virginia, which might be useful, though I haven't checked to see whether it's accurate: http://www.natlawreview.com/article/est ... e-virginia.

If you get divorced, absent an agreement, your marital property is subject to equitable distribution (division). What's considered marital property varies from state to state. A lawyer in Virginia can probably give you a sense of what the equitable distribution would likely be in your situation, though it's up to the court to decide at the time based on the facts and circumstances at the time. The amount of alimony you might receive or might have to pay is also up to the court.

If you want to make different provisions, and to have greater certainty of result (nothing is 100% certain, and I was involved in a case a few years ago where the surviving spouse successfully challenged a prenuptial agreement, though the case was settled on appeal), but reasonable agreements are generally upheld.

RudyS wrote:I would suggest you see a lawyer (maybe can get a free initial consultation), as has been suggested a few times earlier, to verify just what the state law is in the absence of a pre-nup, and then determine the need for one. Although there are some very knowledgeable folks here, it's risky to rely on this or any forum for legal advice.


The free lawyer might only be worth what you pay for his/her time.


This is very interesting, thank you! I will definitely be seeing an attorney about all this, and not a free one.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by 1210sda » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:20 pm

HomerJ wrote:I did have a friend who asked me, "If she wants a prenup, that means she's already thinking that the marriage won't work"

I said "If I don't sign it, that means I'm thinking the marriage won't work.


You've done it again, Homer !

You zeroed in on the basics of the issue.

Thanks
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by 123 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:57 pm

If both partners have been divorced I think a pre-nup is less likely to be a barrier but you never know...
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by darkhorse » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:11 pm

It will help u sleep better at night. Please get it.
You are goimg to have rare/ occasional awkward or difficult conversation once you are married.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by icefr » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:16 pm

red_uu wrote:
Call_Me_Op wrote:
red_uu wrote: I can't see him ever getting greedy or ugly.


Then he should not mind signing a pre-nup, right?

Do you think anyone just getting married can envision their partner getting greedy or ugly?


You're right - I guess I am just trying to determine whether I need one if the state already says that my pre-marriage assets remain mine in the event of divorce, and he would only get half of any gained home equity after we are married (which I think is fair - he will likely be contributing something).


You may agree with what the state says, but a prenup can be helpful to make sure that your pre-marital assets are documented. Otherwise, you will need to scrape up documentation proving the valuation of each piece of property. A prenup, on the other hand, *is* that documentation of property valuations pre-marriage. I bought the condo that my husband and I live in and our nuptial agreement was primarily to document its valuation and how much equity each of us has before marriage and going forward. What is more important than the nuptial agreement being signed (to me assuming the marriage will work) is the hours upon hours we spent discussing and coming to a fair solution of how to handle the condo. Have you and your fiance (note that fiancee=woman and fiance=man) spent time together and separately discussing and thinking about how you want to handle your house?

One of the tricky parts my husband and I ran into thinking through the account titling is that in our state, by default, all pre-marital assets stay separate property and that individual accounts stay separate so long as they are not contributed to post-marriage. Retirement accounts are the wrinkle in that because you can't just stop contributing to say your 401(k) because you got married and want a new one. Savings and taxable investment accounts are easier to handle because you could just make post-marriage contributions to jointly titled accounts, but that isn't a solution for retirement accounts.

I would really recommend putting some thought into what you would want out of a prenup before consulting with an attorney. Also, if you can't talk through how you want to run your marriage's finances with your fiance before you get married, then that is a note you should consider. For my husband and I, the discussions were really important of each person presenting their thoughts and then coming to compromises, which is also a useful marriage skill.

Some food for thought. I'm not a lawyer, just someone who had assets when she got married.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by JupiterJones » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:31 pm

Prenups (whether remarrying or marrying for the first time) are only necessary if either of the two of you would prefer different "rules" governing your potential divorce that the default set of rules that already exists.

Of course, that requires learning all you can about the law in your state, and that's where a lawyer is helpful.

But thinking about it that way also sort of reframes the prenup debate. In a sense, everyone signs a prenuptial agreement whenever they sign their name to the marriage certificate. They're either agreeing to abide by the law as it exists, or they're "overriding" it with a separate legal document.

Either way, both parties are agreeing on how they'll treat a potential divorce. It's not like a prenup is suddenly addressing something that isn't already being addressed.
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by barnaclebob » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:19 pm

I would for sure have a prenup in this situation. I don't have a prenup with my wife now. We both had very little in the way of assets when we were married.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by praxis » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:38 pm

I understand your hesitation, but you will have difficult conversations on many topics during your marriage. Money topics of all kinds are as important as they are tricky. Make a list of all the financial topics you'd like to understand with him and present them as an area you consider an opportunity to get on the same page. It's not too early to discuss ideas about wills, which leads to preferences about who inherits what and what's fair. A pre-nup fits into that discussion.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Miakis » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:48 pm

Swansea wrote:Proposing a prenup to your intended can often cause you to receive a frosty reception, but one needs to do what one feels is best.


Who cares?

This probably won't be the last time a matter comes up that receives a frosty reception from the spouse.

Do people really think it's healthy to avoid having important discussions with their spouse because they're worried about their reaction?

It seems obvious in a second marriage that you would ask your intended, "Hey, what do you think about a prenup?"

I have a prenup. My husband tiptoed all around the question when he presented the idea to me. We both have divorced parents who were happy and in love at some point. It wasn't a big deal. I asked what he'd want in a prenup. I made some suggestions of my own. We did the prenup. It was never an unpleasant discussion.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by ponyboy » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:04 pm

No...a prenup should not be needed because someone should not remarry for the 2nd time. Marriage is nothing more than a contract between 2 people recognized by the state. Thats it. Your relationship will not change whether you sign that contract or not. Dont do it!

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by barnaclebob » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:06 pm

ponyboy wrote:No...a prenup should not be needed because someone should not remarry for the 2nd time. Marriage is nothing more than a contract between 2 people recognized by the state. Thats it. Your relationship will not change whether you sign that contract or not. Dont do it!


How the state and federal governments treat you will though...

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by midareff » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:07 pm

See PM

Rodc
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Rodc » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:27 pm

ponyboy wrote:No...a prenup should not be needed because someone should not remarry for the 2nd time. Marriage is nothing more than a contract between 2 people recognized by the state. Thats it. Your relationship will not change whether you sign that contract or not. Dont do it!


Why does that kick in on marriage #2?
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Good Listener » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:17 pm

It gets greedy and ugly often but not always. I had a similar situation as you for wife #2. We had a prenuptial. She challenged it, even though she probably would have ended up worse off without it, but it held. If there is an asset disparity and/or children you need a prenuptial IMO.
Last edited by Good Listener on Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by rgurmankin » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:20 pm

Get the prenup! No one wants to think about it, but what if you die. Not sure about your state, but in PA, spouse is entitled to 1/2, even if they are not in the will; even if they are specifically excluded in the will (doesn't work in PA). Only a prenup will allow you to make sure your kids are taken care of.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by forkhorn » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:57 pm

red_uu wrote: .....do I need a prenup? .....

Opinions? Thanks!


I'm not clear on whether you are asking if you legally need a prenup to protect your assets in the case of a nasty divorce, or if you are asking for a judgement call on if a prenup is a good idea.

For the legal question, the answer is probably yes. For the other question, I think it just depends on how much what you have currently is worth to you. If it would take you years and years to reaccumulate your current wealth (and if the potential spouse has far less), then I'd say yes. But if it's an amount you could save again within a few years or less, I'd vote no.

Just my .02.

My wife and I have a prenup and it's never been an issue at all.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Traveler » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:56 pm

I've never married, but now that I have relatively substantial assets, no matter how much the guy has, I would want one. As another post said though, you should learn about how your state treats marital assets and then decide if you need more protection that would come from a pre-nup.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by mptfan » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:26 pm

red_uu wrote:You're right - I guess I am just trying to determine whether I need one if the state already says that my pre-marriage assets remain mine in the event of divorce, and he would only get half of any gained home equity after we are married (which I think is fair - he will likely be contributing something).

What if he moves to a different state and files for divorce in that state? Have you researched the laws in all 50 states?
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by DireWolf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:32 pm

Interesting perspectives here.

It is worth noting that less than half of divorces involve lawyers and only 2-3% of divorces go to trial. Almost all divorces that involve lawyers also involve children.

Many couples work out a way to fairly divide the assets on their own, and it's not always 50/50. Alimony is very rare nowadays. Usually it's when one spouse worked and the other didn't. In that case the non-working spouse is usually granted a small alimony allowance for a couple years so he/she can find a job.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Traveler » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:50 am

mptfan wrote:
red_uu wrote:You're right - I guess I am just trying to determine whether I need one if the state already says that my pre-marriage assets remain mine in the event of divorce, and he would only get half of any gained home equity after we are married (which I think is fair - he will likely be contributing something).

What if he moves to a different state and files for divorce in that state? Have you researched the laws in all 50 states?


If there was a benefit to doing this, then wouldn't everyone simply go to a handful of states to get divorced? Similar to why so many companies incorporate in Delaware.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by TIAX » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:55 am

JupiterJones wrote:Prenups (whether remarrying or marrying for the first time) are only necessary if either of the two of you would prefer different "rules" governing your potential divorce that the default set of rules that already exists.

Of course, that requires learning all you can about the law in your state, and that's where a lawyer is helpful.

Considering that your state law may well change in the next few years/decades, why would you rely on it instead of an agreement?

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by nedsaid » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:10 pm

red_uu wrote:I am divorced and own a house and some investment accounts. My fiancee doesn't have much in assets (he really got cleaned out in his divorce, but is on a good path).

If all my accounts are in my name and my house is also in my name, do I need a prenup? I live in Virginia and it looks like these assets would be considered pre-marital in the event of a divorce, as long as I don't contribute to them with marital funds.

Opinions? Thanks!


Sadly, in this day and age and in your situation, I would say yes. Look at your fiancée's experience. Getting cleaned out once is enough.
A fool and his money are good for business.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by mptfan » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:13 pm

Traveler wrote:If there was a benefit to doing this, then wouldn't everyone simply go to a handful of states to get divorced?

No. For most people the difference between the divorce laws in on state versus another state is not enough, by itself, to move.
I eat risk for breakfast. :)

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:30 pm

red_uu wrote:I am divorced and own a house and some investment accounts. My fiancee doesn't have much in assets (he really got cleaned out in his divorce, but is on a good path).

If all my accounts are in my name and my house is also in my name, do I need a prenup? I live in Virginia and it looks like these assets would be considered pre-marital in the event of a divorce, as long as I don't contribute to them with marital funds.

Opinions? Thanks!


The best answer is in the question.
The fact that you are asking means it is important enough to ask. . . thus a resounding "yes".
Maturity, experience, and wisdom/prudence.
Yes.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by ThreeBears » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:19 pm

Why only necessary when remarrying? Why not just plain old necessary.

I don't understand why people get married without them . . . other than the basic fact that most people don't plan ahead for anything other than goldilocks.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Da5id » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:54 pm

ThreeBears wrote:Why only necessary when remarrying? Why not just plain old necessary.

I don't understand why people get married without them . . . other than the basic fact that most people don't plan ahead for anything other than goldilocks.


If you get married with fairly equal resources and no children from previous relationships, not clear it is much of a win, as what you choose in a prenup might be pretty similar to the default rules.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by ThreeBears » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:21 pm

If each chose a degree with similar earning potential, sure.

However, if an accountant marries an elementary teacher, why wouldn't the accountant insist on a prenup? If you want to entitled to earn as much as an accountant . . . well, then you should become an accountant.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Da5id » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:31 pm

ThreeBears wrote:If each chose a degree with similar earning potential, sure.

However, if an accountant marries an elementary teacher, why wouldn't the accountant insist on a prenup? If you want to entitled to earn as much as an accountant . . . well, then you should become an accountant.


I guess we all have different ideas of marriage, sharing, fairness, etc. In the case you describe, I'd not get a pre-nup myself. Each to their own.

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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by mptfan » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:22 pm

ThreeBears wrote:If each chose a degree with similar earning potential, sure.

However, if an accountant marries an elementary teacher, why wouldn't the accountant insist on a prenup?

Because the accountant thinks that both spouses in the marriage are entitled to an equal share in the financial benefits of the marriage, regardless of who earns more.
I eat risk for breakfast. :)

Miakis
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Miakis » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:48 pm

mptfan wrote:
ThreeBears wrote:If each chose a degree with similar earning potential, sure.

However, if an accountant marries an elementary teacher, why wouldn't the accountant insist on a prenup?

Because the accountant thinks that both spouses in the marriage are entitled to an equal share in the financial benefits of the marriage, regardless of who earns more.


At the time of my wedding, I was the non-earning spouse and my husband was the earning spouse. Our prenup laid out certain protections for me - that I would receive half of our marital assets plus an additional settlement to compensate me for the fact that I was moving for him, and to ensure that I was placed - at a minimum - in the same financial place that I was in when we entered our marriage, that I could stay in our home until divorce proceedings concluded, and that I kept my cat.

But I never expected that my higher-earning husband would support me if we divorced. Yes, I was entitled to half of the wealth that we collected during our marriage - but after it? I agreed that waiving alimony was reasonable. That's an easy agreement to make when entering a marriage. I still believe it's the right thing - I don't understand the expectation that an ex-spouse should support the other. But if it was on the table, even during an amicable divorce, would I be so quick to let it go? I doubt it.

Prenups feel obvious when discussing entering a marriage with unequal assets (or unequal debts - what if someone has big student loans? credit card debt?), but they're certainly worth discussing even when spouses enter the marriage as financial equals. It allows the spouses to discuss the "what ifs" - What if I decide to be a SAHP - what are our expectations of alimony? Does it change if our children are grown or in school? What if we have no children? What happens if your earnings outmatch mine? What if one of us becomes disabled? Even if the couple ultimately chooses not to get a prenup, these are important questions to discuss.

I out-earn my husband nowadays and that cat is long dead. It seems silly that I'd stay in our residence while he went and slept on his mom's couch. But the fundamentals of how we'd split assets or waive alimony continue to be valid and sound. If we were to ever divorce, having that document would be a helpful guide to remind us about how we meant things to be split.

ThreeBears
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by ThreeBears » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:02 pm

mptfan wrote:
ThreeBears wrote:If each chose a degree with similar earning potential, sure.

However, if an accountant marries an elementary teacher, why wouldn't the accountant insist on a prenup?

Because the accountant thinks that both spouses in the marriage are entitled to an equal share in the financial benefits of the marriage, regardless of who earns more.



"financial benefits of the marriage" --- Right, so I know there are plenty of opinions on this. For 99% for couples, jobs earn the income. The marriage itself doesn't earn an income. Also, if the accountant still feels that way during the divorce, she can always donate any money to her husband that he didn't get during the divorce settlement.

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praxis
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by praxis » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:31 am

ThreeBears wrote:
mptfan wrote:
ThreeBears wrote:If each chose a degree with similar earning potential, sure.

However, if an accountant marries an elementary teacher, why wouldn't the accountant insist on a prenup?

Because the accountant thinks that both spouses in the marriage are entitled to an equal share in the financial benefits of the marriage, regardless of who earns more.



"financial benefits of the marriage" --- Right, so I know there are plenty of opinions on this. For 99% for couples, jobs earn the income. The marriage itself doesn't earn an income. Also, if the accountant still feels that way during the divorce, she can always donate any money to her husband that he didn't get during the divorce settlement.


Income is part of family finance. spending is another, in 100% of families. Some would credit a SAHP with contribution to cash flow by providing some services otherwise costing the family.

Fair is not always equal.

In making the choice to send the partner with higher earning potential to work, should the other partner be penalized because their contribution reduces spending rather than adding income?

I believe the disparity between people's viewpoints, like mine and ThreeBear's, is reason enough to talk it out and write it down and sign it.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:03 am

Sharing >> Empowerment >> Entitlement == Human nature?
Thus . . . prenup.. . . because the future and human nature are unpredictable.
. . . and because there is, shouldn't be perceived as, nothing wrong with protecting yourself.
Ethical decisions vs Pragmatic decisions . . . . tough.

Thank goodness for Bogleheads where the financial consequences :dollar of ethical decisions can be pondered.

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Index Fan
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Re: Is a prenup always necessary when remarrying?

Post by Index Fan » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:10 am

Not necessary, but prudent.
"Optimum est pati quod emendare non possis." | -Seneca

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