Suggestion for the Wiki Checklist of Important Dates

Local Chapters, Wiki, and general Bogleheads community discussion, news, events, and announcements
Post Reply
User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 7823
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Suggestion for the Wiki Checklist of Important Dates

Post by tadamsmar » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:21 am

Here:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Checkli ... ment_dates

For the date of FRA, I think it should mention that if you started your SS benefits earlier then you can suspend after FRA and delay up till 70. You have a second chance to delay. That can be useful if someone gets an inheritance or sells a property or get another windfall and suddenly finds oneself with some taxable savings. Funding a delay can be the best "investment" for that money.

User avatar
dodecahedron
Posts: 3729
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:28 pm

Re: Suggestion for the Wiki Checklist of Important Dates

Post by dodecahedron » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:23 am

Another suggestion for addition to that list: age 60 is the minimum age at which a surviving spouse may claim widow(er)'s Social Security benefits (age 50 if the survivor is disabled.)

Edited to add another suggestion: age 85 is the latest age at which a Qualified Longevity Annuity Contract (QLAC) within a tax-advantaged retirement plan can begin.

And another one: age 65 is the minimum age after which penalty free distributions from a Health Savings Account (HSA) may be taken for any reason. (Tax will still apply in the absence of qualifying medical expenses, but no penalties after this age.)

Edited to add links to authoritative sources
Last edited by dodecahedron on Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 48591
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Suggestion for the Wiki Checklist of Important Dates

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:41 pm

This thread is now in the Local Chapters and Bogleheads Community forum (wiki, which belongs to the Bogleheads' community). Thanks to dodecahedron for flagging this thread in Re: Suggestions for the Wiki.

Like Wikipedia,* the wiki should cite a credible source as a reference. While I have confidence in our members, myself and other wiki editors will try to dig deeper and confirm the suggestions. Can links please be provided with the suggestions?

Consider Checklist of important retirement dates is intended as a simplified overview.
tadamsmar wrote:For the date of FRA, I think it should mention that if you started your SS benefits earlier then you can suspend after FRA and delay up till 70. You have a second chance to delay. That can be useful if someone gets an inheritance or sells a property or get another windfall and suddenly finds oneself with some taxable savings. Funding a delay can be the best "investment" for that money.
I searched the SSA's Retirement Planner: Suspending Retirement Benefit Payments and it looks complicated - especially for the rulings which went into effect after April 30, 2016. I'm not an expert and it's certainly possible that I'm misunderstanding something.

The wiki is intended to provide helpful information, not specific investing advice. In the case of Social Security, there can be many situations in which providing a date may be misleading due to a person's unique situation.

The best approach is to either (1) go to a higher level of detail which won't result in misleading information or (2) discuss the details, but caution the reader that this information may not apply to their situation.

If a clarification and link can be provided (and it's not too dependent on someone's situation), we can put this suggestion in the check list.
dodecahedron wrote:Edited to add another suggestion: age 85 is the latest age at which a Qualified Longevity Annuity Contract (QLAC) within a tax-advantaged retirement plan can begin.
Source found: Internal Revenue Bulletin: 2014-30

The wiki has been updated, please review: Checklist of important retirement dates
dodecahedron wrote:And another one: age 65 is the minimum age after which penalty free distributions from a Health Savings Account (HSA) may be taken for any reason. (Tax will still apply in the absence of qualifying medical expenses, but no penalties after this age.)
I could not find the age 65 penalty-free distribution in Publication 969 (2015), Health Savings Accounts and Other Tax-Favored Health Plans.

I'm not an expert and may certainly have missed it. Can you please supply a link?

===================
* Details are here.

Additional note: Lurkers are welcome to provide suggestions using the "Help improve this page" form found at the bottom of every wiki page. No login is required.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

User avatar
grabiner
Advisory Board
Posts: 22895
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:58 pm
Location: Columbia, MD

Re: Suggestion for the Wiki Checklist of Important Dates

Post by grabiner » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:36 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:And another one: age 65 is the minimum age after which penalty free distributions from a Health Savings Account (HSA) may be taken for any reason. (Tax will still apply in the absence of qualifying medical expenses, but no penalties after this age.)
I could not find the age 65 penalty-free distribution in Publication 969 (2015), Health Savings Accounts and Other Tax-Favored Health Plans.

I'm not an expert and may certainly have missed it. Can you please supply a link?
It's a few pargaraphs down in the same section.
Additional tax. There is an additional 20% tax on the part of your distributions not used for qualified medical expenses. Figure the tax on Form 8889 and file it with your Form 1040 or Form 1040NR.

Exceptions. There is no additional tax on distributions made after the date you are disabled, reach age 65, or die.
Wiki David Grabiner

User avatar
dodecahedron
Posts: 3729
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:28 pm

Re: Suggestion for the Wiki Checklist of Important Dates

Post by dodecahedron » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:09 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Like Wikipedia,* the wiki should cite a credible source as a reference. While I have confidence in our members, myself and other wiki editors will try to dig deeper and confirm the suggestions. Can links please be provided with the suggestions?
Thanks for the prod--I will definitely be more conscientious and proactive about supplying links to authoritative sources with suggestions in the future. (To help myself to form this good habit in the future, I have re-edited my post above to insert links to sources.)
Lady Geek wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:Edited to add another suggestion: age 85 is the latest age at which a Qualified Longevity Annuity Contract (QLAC) within a tax-advantaged retirement plan can begin.
Source found: Internal Revenue Bulletin: 2014-30

The wiki has been updated, please review: Checklist of important retirement dates
Looks fine, thanks!

Thanks to grabiner for tracking down the reference to age 65 in the HSA link.

User avatar
dodecahedron
Posts: 3729
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:28 pm

Re: Suggestion for the Wiki Checklist of Important Dates

Post by dodecahedron » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:37 pm

However, I just spotted another item in the checklist which is not actually correct.
the wiki checklist of dates wrote: 65 or older: May no longer contribute to one's Health savings account.
and the linked footnote 14 states "See Enrolled in Medicare in IRS Pub 969." But not everyone chooses to enroll in Medicare at age 65 and the linked Pub 969 says nothing to suggest that there is an age maximum for contributing to an HSA.

In particular, for example, people who are still working and covered by HSA-eligible employer health plans may wish to stay on those plans after age 65 rather than enroll in Medicare. If so, they remain eligible to contribute to their HSA, regardless of their age.

However, what is true is that if you are drawing SS at the time you are 65, you will be automatically enrolled (i.e., forced to enroll) in Medicare Part A, and therefore you will be ineligible to contribute to an HSA. (This automatic enrollment also applies to under-65 folks on Social Security Disability Insurance after they have collected 24 months of SSDI.)

So there isn't really any kind of per se age requirement to contribute to an HSA. The requirement is that you not have any insurance coverage below the required the deductible. There are many kinds of disqualifying insurance; Medicare is just one example that happens to apply to many (but not all) folks at age 65.

I think it might be better to change the above entry to read:

65+: Social Security recipients at or beyond this age will be automatically enrolled in Medicare Part A and therefore ineligible to contribute to a Health Savings Account.

The footnotes for this should go to Medicare Eligibility and Enrollment and IRS Pub 969. Perhaps also a link to this from AARP.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 48591
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Suggestion for the Wiki Checklist of Important Dates

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:14 am

Thanks to both.

The wiki is updated: Checklist of important retirement dates

I also incorporated these suggestions in: Health savings account

Since I had difficulty locating the HSA's age 65 tax penalty waiver, others might as well. The citation shows where this came from.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 7823
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Suggestion for the Wiki Checklist of Important Dates

Post by tadamsmar » Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:51 am

LadyGeek wrote:This thread is now in the Local Chapters and Bogleheads Community forum (wiki, which belongs to the Bogleheads' community). Thanks to dodecahedron for flagging this thread in Re: Suggestions for the Wiki.

Like Wikipedia,* the wiki should cite a credible source as a reference. While I have confidence in our members, myself and other wiki editors will try to dig deeper and confirm the suggestions. Can links please be provided with the suggestions?

Consider Checklist of important retirement dates is intended as a simplified overview.
tadamsmar wrote:For the date of FRA, I think it should mention that if you started your SS benefits earlier then you can suspend after FRA and delay up till 70. You have a second chance to delay. That can be useful if someone gets an inheritance or sells a property or get another windfall and suddenly finds oneself with some taxable savings. Funding a delay can be the best "investment" for that money.
I searched the SSA's Retirement Planner: Suspending Retirement Benefit Payments and it looks complicated - especially for the rulings which went into effect after April 30, 2016. I'm not an expert and it's certainly possible that I'm misunderstanding something.

The wiki is intended to provide helpful information, not specific investing advice. In the case of Social Security, there can be many situations in which providing a date may be misleading due to a person's unique situation.

The best approach is to either (1) go to a higher level of detail which won't result in misleading information or (2) discuss the details, but caution the reader that this information may not apply to their situation.

If a clarification and link can be provided (and it's not too dependent on someone's situation), we can put this suggestion in the check list.
I think the problem is that my post mixed two things: (1) The fact that you can suspend and (2) some scenarios where it would be good to suspend (investment advice).

Correct me if I am wrong, but: Anyone can suspend after FRA. This fact is not too dependent on someone's situation because it is not at all dependent on someone's situation.

Whether it a good investment idea to suspend is of course dependent on someone's situation. But if that's a consistent rule for checklist inclusion, then that checklist needs to be a heck of a lot shorter. Just starting at the top, the 2nd item is for something that might or might not be a good idea: "Earliest time at which a parent may purchase a savings bond and receive favorable tax treatment on interest if used for child's future qualifying education expenses." Many items on the list are like that, it can be a bad idea to do it. Many people arguably should not start collecting SS at 62, but the date is on the checklist.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 48591
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Suggestion for the Wiki Checklist of Important Dates

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:21 pm

If anyone thinks an entry should be deleted, that's fine. Is there a consensus to remove:
24 Earliest time at which a parent may purchase a savings bond and receive favorable tax treatment on interest if used for child's future qualifying education expenses.
I'm asking for a consensus in case someone disagrees on the removal.

What else should be deleted?

=======================
I just clarified when turning 65 increases your standard deduction. From:
65 Your federal standard deduction increases.
To:
65 Your federal standard deduction increases if you are age 65 or older on the last day of the year.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

Post Reply