Total Return Charts

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Doc
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Total Return Charts

Post by Doc » Fri May 04, 2007 11:22 am

Does anyone know of a site where you can compare total returns vs time for two or more funds in chart form? I am looking for something similar to M*'s "Growth of $10k" chart which compares fund returns with category averages and an index but I want to compare two funds.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.

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bob90245
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Post by bob90245 » Fri May 04, 2007 11:29 am

I use Vanguard's website for Vanguard mutual funds. They have a good charting section to show growth of $10K (total returns which includes reinvestment of dividends). And you can compare two funds side by side (I think the most is 3 funds).

Wish I knew of another site that does this for non-Vanguard funds and individual stocks. Other charting websites do not show reinvested dividends.

norm
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Post by norm » Fri May 04, 2007 11:51 am

Doc,

See if this gives you what you want. http://content.members.fidelity.com/mfl ... LX,00.html

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mas
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Post by mas » Fri May 04, 2007 11:57 am

I have used StockCharts.com PerfChart

See this comparison for DODGX (just a random fund with a large distribution in December) vs VIVAX:
http://stockcharts.com/charts/performance/perf.html?DODGX,VIVAX
vs.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=DODGX&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=VIVAX

It seems to work pretty well, but I don't know how speedily they apply updates, and I have seen at least one glitch (don't remember what) so use caution.

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bob90245
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Post by bob90245 » Fri May 04, 2007 12:06 pm

mas wrote:I have used StockCharts.com PerfChart

See this comparison for DODGX (just a random fund with a large distribution in December) vs VIVAX:
http://stockcharts.com/charts/performance/perf.html?DODGX,VIVAX

Excellent! This will definitely be going in my bookmarks!

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Post by livesoft » Fri May 04, 2007 12:14 pm

the deluxe charting toolkit at investor.msn.com does this for you. Distributions in the last 6 months do not appear to be in the database yet, but will be there at some point. The charting tool does exactly what you want. You can even set the starting value to any number.

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CyberBob
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SmartMoney Charting

Post by CyberBob » Fri May 04, 2007 12:42 pm

SmartMoney.com has Java-based charting that lets you point to any time on the chart and see the values of each fund.

Image

Bob

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Doc
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Post by Doc » Fri May 04, 2007 12:43 pm

Thanks guys but I’m still looking.

Comments on some of the sites.

Vanguard is limited to Vanguard.

Fidelity looks good as far as it goes. I would like to have more control over the period.

Stockcharts is really neat except it is apparently price not total return. This would be great if it took dividends into consideration.
… while the vertical axis measures the percent change in the price.

I don’t know what Yahoo is plotting. I had heard that it was “adjusted price” that was plotted but I can’t find a definition of the chart.

I think MSN is also price only. (Somehow I lost the Deluxe chart trying to get total return.)
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.

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mas
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Post by mas » Fri May 04, 2007 12:54 pm

Doc,

Yahoo is definitely price only. I provided that as a comparison to show that StockCharts is showing the total return. Zoom in to Dec 2006... If it was only the NAV being plotted, there would be a large drop (as in the Yahoo chart - which can't be zoomed as well).

I looked around on their site for a description of what is being plotted, and sadly couldn't find it. Nevertheless my experience is that it shows reinvested divindends and distributions.

SmartMoney looks good too.

Best wishes.

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Post by stratton » Fri May 04, 2007 1:00 pm

stockcharts definitely does total return. Compare PIMCO Real Estate Real Return PRRSX vs. RWR, the index its based off. On Yahoo the giant 40% end of year payout in PRRSX will show up. On stockcharts it doesn't.

Paul

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Paul Douglas Boyer
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Post by Paul Douglas Boyer » Fri May 04, 2007 1:02 pm

Wouldn't it be awesome if there were a charting tool where you could enter a whole portfolio of symbols and back-test its entire performance? Even better than just a chart, also include a computation of the annualized return and the standard deviation. And allow you to adjust the percentages of each symbol to make up the 100%. And then swap in and out other symbols.

Our would that be too seductive and entice us into doing too much data mining?

I'd like to find the answer out anyway.

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Doc
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Re: PerfCharts

Post by Doc » Fri May 04, 2007 1:13 pm

Under "Using our interactive Perfcharts"

Interpreting The PerfChart

The PerfChart provides you with all the tools you need to make a solid relative performance analysis. Each ticker you have chosen to chart is given a color and appears at the top of the page as a tab. The beginning of your period will always start at 0%. For example, the chart above shows that the S&P 500 has risen 10.0% over the past 200-days; it's performance relative to 200 days ago is what is being plotted.

The horizontal axis displays the range of the period you select (e.g. 200 days), while the vertical axis measures the percent change in the price.


but if you look at the Pimco Reit example it is obviously not price but total return.
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Post by winterescape » Fri May 04, 2007 2:21 pm

Msn

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/ch ... mbol=vtsmx

It is not just price it is total return, if you are lacking the advanced charts just reload it...

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Post by livesoft » Fri May 04, 2007 2:25 pm

winterescape wrote:Msn

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/ch ... mbol=vtsmx

It is not just price it is total return, if you are lacking the advanced charts just reload it...

Make sure you click under "Chart" and select "Investment growth" and not "Price history".

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Doc
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Post by Doc » Fri May 04, 2007 2:41 pm

For msn if you include the last six months you don't get the "includes" dividends but if you leave out the last six months you do.

Boy I've had so much fun looking at all the different charts that I forgot the reason why I wanted them in the first place. :oops:

Thanks for everyones help.
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Post by ruud » Fri May 04, 2007 2:46 pm

Paul Douglas Boyer wrote:Wouldn't it be awesome if there were a charting tool where you could enter a whole portfolio of symbols and back-test its entire performance? Even better than just a chart, also include a computation of the annualized return and the standard deviation. And allow you to adjust the percentages of each symbol to make up the 100%. And then swap in and out other symbols.

Icarra.com comes close, I think.

- Ruud

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Post by norm » Fri May 04, 2007 3:40 pm


adrift
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Post by adrift » Sun May 06, 2007 3:34 pm

ruud wrote:
Paul Douglas Boyer wrote:Wouldn't it be awesome if there were a charting tool where you could enter a whole portfolio of symbols and back-test its entire performance? Even better than just a chart, also include a computation of the annualized return and the standard deviation. And allow you to adjust the percentages of each symbol to make up the 100%. And then swap in and out other symbols.

Icarra.com comes close, I think.

- Ruud


Perhaps. It tells me I have an IRR of 975468172.33% for one of my funds over the last 2 years. :shock: Seems to be a good way to boost your returns to me.

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Re: Total Return Charts

Post by bnes » Sat May 24, 2014 6:27 pm

Sadly, after all these years this thread is still quite relevant. Even a broker like Schwab is largely stuck in a price only charting world.
I found a very nice TR/DRIP calculator at a little known website:
http://www.dividendchannel.com/drip-returns-calculator/

Here's an example, demonstrating the difference for a high dividend equity ($427k vs. $206k for KMP since 1995):
Image

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Re: Total Return Charts

Post by Doc » Sat May 24, 2014 7:26 pm

bnes wrote:Sadly, after all these years this thread is still quite relevant. Even a broker like Schwab is largely stuck in a price only charting world.
I found a very nice TR/DRIP calculator at a little known website:


Doc in 2007 wrote:Does anyone know of a site where you can compare total returns vs time for two or more funds in chart form? I am looking for something similar to M*'s "Growth of $10k" chart which compares fund returns with category averages and an index but I want to compare two funds.


Morningstar now does the job.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.

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Re: Total Return Charts

Post by beammeupscotty » Sat May 24, 2014 8:56 pm

Morningstar can compare multiple funds. To combine multiple funds and compare the portfolio performance to an index, you can use
http://www.etfreplay.com/combine.aspx
Last edited by beammeupscotty on Sun May 25, 2014 7:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

2retire
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Re: Total Return Charts

Post by 2retire » Sat May 24, 2014 9:30 pm

What am I missing, why doesn't M* work? They allow you to bring up a chart for one fund, then add more funds to that existing chart.

Edit: lol, I didn't realize this was a necro'd thread.

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Re: Total Return Charts

Post by Doc » Sun May 25, 2014 10:59 am

2retire wrote: Edit: lol, I didn't realize this was a necro'd thread.


From above:

Doc wrote:Doc in 2007 wrote:
Does anyone know of a site where you can compare total returns vs time for two or more funds in chart form? I am looking for something similar to M*'s "Growth of $10k" chart which compares fund returns with category averages and an index but I want to compare two funds.
:P

I have to admit I did crank up the calculator to see how long ago it was since I started this thread. :D
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Re: Total Return Charts

Post by bnes » Mon May 26, 2014 3:43 am

I must be missing something. I can find total return for mutual funds at Morningstar, but can't chart that against a dividend paying equity. Is Morningstar so limited?

So far we have (for 2014):
http://www.etfreplay.com/combine.aspx (only seems to have ETFs and indexes).
http://www.dividendchannel.com/drip-returns-calculator/ (stocks/some indexes/mutual funds)
http://quote.morningstar.com/ (can chart mutual fund total return against stock market price, assuming a non-taxable account).

Now for the advanced question: is there a calculator that can:
(1) work for equities or mutual funds
(2) calculate for taxable accounts, with dividends reinvested, but taxes taken out each year at some given rate (e.g. 28%)?

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Re: Total Return Charts

Post by beammeupscotty » Mon May 26, 2014 4:51 am

bnes wrote:I must be missing something. I can find total return for mutual funds at Morningstar, but can't chart that against a dividend paying equity. Is Morningstar so limited?

So far we have (for 2014):
http://www.etfreplay.com/combine.aspx (only seems to have ETFs and indexes).
http://www.dividendchannel.com/drip-returns-calculator/ (stocks/some indexes/mutual funds)
http://quote.morningstar.com/ (can chart mutual fund total return against stock market price, assuming a non-taxable account).

Now for the advanced question: is there a calculator that can:
(1) work for equities or mutual funds
(2) calculate for taxable accounts, with dividends reinvested, but taxes taken out each year at some given rate (e.g. 28%)?


1) Morningstar can do that too -- just chart the mutual fund first, then you can compare to total return of ETFs, stocks, or other funds. Here is a chart comparing Vanguard 500 Index to AT&T and Vanguard Total Stock Market: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=139589#p2065344

2) I don't think there is. Best you could do is calculate the tax cost ratio of the portfolio and subtract it out of total return CAGR.
http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Principl ... _tax_costs

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