Am I being cheap? [wedding/engagement ring]

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KlangFool
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:29 pm

livesoft wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
livesoft wrote:If she wants a ring, make her go buy it for herself.
Three questions:
1) Does you wife wear a wedding/engagement ring?
Wedding, gold band. Engagement, No.
2) If yes, did you make her go buy it for herself?
Practically. But the gold band was less than $200 ...
3) With who's money?
… so I could barely afford it because I also bought a matching gold band for myself.
Married more than 3 decades.
livesoft,

+1

Same answer as you. Married for 20+ years.

But, we could afford it. We decided that it is a waste of money. My wife tell me that if I ever think of doing that, just give her the cold hard cash. She will spend it else where.

KlangFool

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BL
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by BL » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:30 pm

I believe that $5000 for 50 years is less than 30 cents/day. Is she worth it or not?

(We got a modest ring for our 50th. Maybe should have done it for our 25th to get more days worn out of it.)

Louis Winthorpe III
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Louis Winthorpe III » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:31 pm

livesoft wrote:If she wants a ring, make her go buy it for herself.
Bizarre.

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Zeppcoustic
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Zeppcoustic » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:33 pm

Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
livesoft wrote:If she wants a ring, make her go buy it for herself.
Bizarre.
Indeed

petscii
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by petscii » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:33 pm

I'm not married. Been with the same wonderful woman six plus years. If I were going to get married I think I would do something like this:

http://www.withtheseringshandmade.com/investment/

or

http://www.aweddingringexperience.com/process.php

There are quite a few places that over a weekend will help you make a ring for each other. Something you can do together. I'd much rather be in it for the experience.

If a down payment of that magnitude is required, lease a BMW.
Last edited by petscii on Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

dgdevil
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by dgdevil » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:34 pm

Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
livesoft wrote:If she wants a ring, make her go buy it for herself.
Bizarre.
Minus one.

KlangFool
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:35 pm

BL wrote:I believe that $5000 for 50 years is less than 30 cents/day. Is she worth it or not?

(We got a modest ring for our 50th. Maybe should have done it for our 25th to get more days worn out of it.)
BL,
Or, the ring is just the beginning of expensive and incompatible financial expectation?? Big house, expensive car, European vacation, private school and so on...

KlangFool

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Toons
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Toons » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:36 pm

Zeppcoustic wrote:
Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
livesoft wrote:If she wants a ring, make her go buy it for herself.
Bizarre.
Indeed
Been trying to figure it out myself :shock:
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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BL
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by BL » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:43 pm

KlangFool wrote:
BL wrote:I believe that $5000 for 50 years is less than 30 cents/day. Is she worth it or not?

(We got a modest ring for our 50th. Maybe should have done it for our 25th to get more days worn out of it.)
BL,
Or, the ring is just the beginning of expensive and incompatible financial expectation?? Big house, expensive car, European vacation, private school and so on...

KlangFool
That could be. We were dead broke with very modest spending for several years and we continue to be fairly frugal but probably not cheap. As college kids, there was no money for more than modest bands.

I believe it is very important to try to find out how the other partner spends and thinks about money and saving. But there is still a strong push to get a diamond engagement ring to satisfy dreams. Not that I really understand that, but I accept it.

Busting Myths
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Busting Myths » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:45 pm

BL wrote:
KlangFool wrote:
BL wrote:I believe that $5000 for 50 years is less than 30 cents/day. Is she worth it or not?

(We got a modest ring for our 50th. Maybe should have done it for our 25th to get more days worn out of it.)
BL,
Or, the ring is just the beginning of expensive and incompatible financial expectation?? Big house, expensive car, European vacation, private school and so on...

KlangFool
That could be. We were dead broke with very modest spending for several years and we continue to be fairly frugal but probably not cheap. As college kids, there was no money for more than modest bands.

I believe it is very important to try to find out how the other partner spends and thinks about money and saving. But there is still a strong push to get a diamond engagement ring to satisfy dreams. Not that I really understand that, but I accept it.
Diamond rings, big house, fancy cars....showing off wealth rather than maximizing it.

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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:49 pm

KlangFool wrote:
BL wrote:I believe that $5000 for 50 years is less than 30 cents/day. Is she worth it or not?

(We got a modest ring for our 50th. Maybe should have done it for our 25th to get more days worn out of it.)
BL,
Or, the ring is just the beginning of expensive and incompatible financial expectation?? Big house, expensive car, European vacation, private school and so on...

KlangFool
Give me a break! The OP makes $75K a year, tell us please, we are all "ears" on how the purchase of a ring is the start of "big house, expensive car, European vacations, private school and so......perhaps back in 1899 you could do it on that salary, however we are in the year 2014 into 2015.....
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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mike143
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by mike143 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:50 pm

I spent $1,500 via bluenile.com. Solitaire with plain band and a good quality half carat that was GIA certified. I set a $1,500 budget and we looks at many stores: nationwide, region and local franchises, Sam's Club, Costco, and BJ's and none really provided the same value that bluenile.com did. I spent quite a bit of time researching on truthaboutdiamonds.com. It appears that that site is no longer available in the form I knew it. I bought in Oct 2010 so here is archive.org cache of it from Sep 16 2010: https://web.archive.org/web/20100916042 ... ond-color/

My wife, early on, liked to bring up what other think or do and I simply tell her, and she is now understands, that most people are incompetents and I don't care what they think or do. We are in this together and we have to do what is best for us. Most people have credit card and student debt, we don't, most people have no retirement funding or very little, we do, above and beyond.
Last edited by mike143 on Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nothing is free, someone pays...You can't spend your way to financial freedom.

Busting Myths
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Busting Myths » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:55 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
KlangFool wrote:
BL wrote:I believe that $5000 for 50 years is less than 30 cents/day. Is she worth it or not?

(We got a modest ring for our 50th. Maybe should have done it for our 25th to get more days worn out of it.)
BL,
Or, the ring is just the beginning of expensive and incompatible financial expectation?? Big house, expensive car, European vacation, private school and so on...

KlangFool
Give me a break! The OP makes $75K a year, tell us please, we are all "ears" on how the purchase of a ring is the start of "big house, expensive car, European vacations, private school and so......perhaps back in 1899 you could do it on that salary, however we are in the year 2014 into 2015.....
The issue is that the new spouse to be may wish to live a lifestyle not supported by a 75k salary. The best way to address this concern is to define expectations which can be done now.

EnjoyIt
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by EnjoyIt » Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:59 pm

My advice in conjunction with my wife:

What you should do is sit down with your future wife and lay out your finances. Show her how much you make and spend. Show her how hard you worked to pay off your debt. Show her how much you save and what your financial goals are. Then go buy the ring with her and let her make the decision with the full knowledge of how it will affect your future. This way it will be her decision if she wants a $500 ring or a $5k ring. Then be content with her decision.

On the same hand in the process of this discussion you can talk about finances and what both of your goals are and how to accomplish it. I'm sure you are aware on how important it is to be at least in a similar page.

Ron Ronnerson
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Ron Ronnerson » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:00 pm

Buy the ring and do it gladly. If she is the one you want to marry and it means something to her, put that ahead of what you think about rings. If the ring matters to her, it should matter to you. In the grand scheme of things (total lifetime earnings and expenditures), the cost of the ring will not be all that much. If it makes you feel better, just spend less on something else like your next car or vacation.

Also, if she is on the same page as you in terms of finances (which she should be if you're going to ask her to marry you), you can combine your efforts and work toward a really strong future together. The partnership she provides toward that end is surely going to exceed the cost of the ring countless times over. I proposed to my wife 11 years ago (and we've been married for 9). When I asked her to marry me, I was in a much worse financial place than you. The amount I spent on the ring was in the same range you have in mind. I'm so glad I bought that ring. It has made my wife happy for the past decade and will hopefully continue to do so for many more years. In the meantime, we are on pretty good financial footing now. You can bet that this wouldn't have been the case without my wife working just as hard as I have to get us to that place. So, again, buy the ring. To you it may be a pointless shiny rock. To her, it may mean something quite different. If it does (and I'm not saying that it does), respect that.

anonforthis
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by anonforthis » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:11 pm

I agree that she should pay for it if she wants it. You guys will be husband and wife anyway so why not pay for it herself?

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mike143
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by mike143 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:26 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:What you should do is sit down with your future wife and lay out your finances. Show her how much you make and spend. Show her how hard you worked to pay off your debt. Show her how much you save and what your financial goals are. Then go buy the ring with her and let her make the decision with the full knowledge of how it will affect your future. This way it will be her decision if she wants a $500 ring or a $5k ring. Then be content with her decision.
My wife does not have any financial fortitude. When we started dating she was paying too much for cellular service, I corrected that. When I started delving into her finances, while we were dating, she was paying credit interest charges on a small balance but had 20+ times that in cash available. I asked her why she didn't pay it off with so much cash available and she had no answer. For the majority of our relationship we maintain separate finances and for the most part still do. After we married she was late on a store credit account and I told her that it was not acceptable, our finances effect each other now. Since that time I have taken over her fiances from top to bottom, she doesn't have any objection. When we were both working we were going through infertility treatment and she was worried about finances and the cost of more progressive treatment. I sat her down and showed my net worth and her net worth and that if we went the next step we would basically wipe out all our non retirement savings. Even then she was still worried about what we could afford even though I gave her all the information to be aware what was going on. She would rather me tell her everything is ok than to explain all the details. I looked over her finances, separately, but as if they were my own, taking into consideration that she is low risk. A relationship can be long term but statistically improbable. I look after her best interest, as if they are my own, even if we were to part ways. I have written a lot of words and we have a child on the way. I wonder what is the best way to pass on my financial fortitude in case of my passing. I wasn't taught financial savviness, I learned it the hard way, by making mistakes and learning from them. Supposedly lessons are learned better the hard way.
Nothing is free, someone pays...You can't spend your way to financial freedom.

KlangFool
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:35 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
KlangFool wrote:
BL wrote:I believe that $5000 for 50 years is less than 30 cents/day. Is she worth it or not?

(We got a modest ring for our 50th. Maybe should have done it for our 25th to get more days worn out of it.)
BL,
Or, the ring is just the beginning of expensive and incompatible financial expectation?? Big house, expensive car, European vacation, private school and so on...

KlangFool
Give me a break! The OP makes $75K a year, tell us please, we are all "ears" on how the purchase of a ring is the start of "big house, expensive car, European vacations, private school and so......perhaps back in 1899 you could do it on that salary, however we are in the year 2014 into 2015.....
Grt2bOutdoors,

So?? Need and want does not has to do with reality of the income. This is NORMAL with most people in the world.

By the way, I am proud to be called cheap by anyone.

KlangFool

MSchleicher
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by MSchleicher » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:49 pm

bottlecap wrote:Yes, you're being cheap. It's perfectly normal for a woman to want an engagement ring. $2,000 to $5,000 is getting off fairly cheaply, not that you can't find something acceptable in that range.
+!

My wife wanted a decent ring too. I spent an amount within that range and we make less money with our combined salary than you. Even though we don't make much money, I knew that it would be something she will wear for the rest of her life. We have been married for almost 6 months now, and she stares at her ring every day. By the way, my wife is a very frugal shopper and does not buy expensive items for herself ever. Your wedding ring, however, isn't your everyday purchase; it is something special.

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bottlecap
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by bottlecap » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:51 pm

Busting Myths wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
KlangFool wrote:
BL wrote:I believe that $5000 for 50 years is less than 30 cents/day. Is she worth it or not?

(We got a modest ring for our 50th. Maybe should have done it for our 25th to get more days worn out of it.)
BL,
Or, the ring is just the beginning of expensive and incompatible financial expectation?? Big house, expensive car, European vacation, private school and so on...

KlangFool
Give me a break! The OP makes $75K a year, tell us please, we are all "ears" on how the purchase of a ring is the start of "big house, expensive car, European vacations, private school and so......perhaps back in 1899 you could do it on that salary, however we are in the year 2014 into 2015.....
The issue is that the new spouse to be may wish to live a lifestyle not supported by a 75k salary. The best way to address this concern is to define expectations which can be done now.
If you make $75,000 a year and your fiance is looking for a $2,000 ring, I don't think you have much to worry about in this regard.

JT

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:54 pm

KlangFool wrote:
livesoft wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
livesoft wrote:If she wants a ring, make her go buy it for herself.
Three questions:
1) Does you wife wear a wedding/engagement ring?
Wedding, gold band. Engagement, No.
2) If yes, did you make her go buy it for herself?
Practically. But the gold band was less than $200 ...
3) With who's money?
… so I could barely afford it because I also bought a matching gold band for myself.
Married more than 3 decades.
live soft,
+1
Same answer as you. Married for 20+ years.
But, we could afford it. We decided that it is a waste of money. My wife tell me that if I ever think of doing that, just give her the cold hard cash. She will spend it else where.
KlangFool
I'm with these guys. We were making a lot more than OP but got simple bands. They say that an engagement ring is a status symbol that a man wears on his finance's finger. OP doesn't seem like that kind of guy; I'm surprised so many here are pushing for it. What would you all say if his fiancé wanted him to get a car that would impress her friends? A house? It is easier to never start the status insanity than to try to end it.

Btw, I say this as someone who very much loves his wife and who regards his wedding band as a symbol of that love. For almost 20 years and counting.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

Baconquest
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Baconquest » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:01 pm

adv-rider wrote:A great article on how we got to this point from one of my favorite sites, Priconomics.com. . .

http://tinyurl.com/caupg37
That article is awesome! The part about how "diamond engagement rings are a lie - they’re an invention of Madison Avenue and De Beers" is partly why I didn't want a big rock. Add to that the sexism behind the whole practice:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... gs/255434/

Plus, a ring of any kind only gets in the way and tears up my hands during pull ups and weightlifing. :happy

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backpacker
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by backpacker » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:08 pm

adv-rider wrote:A great article on how we got to this point from one of my favorite sites, Priconomics.com. . .

http://tinyurl.com/caupg37
From the above article "Diamonds Are Bull***t".
[D]iamond engagement rings are a lie - they’re an invention of Madison Avenue and De Beers. This post has completely glossed over the sheer amount of human suffering that we’ve caused by believing this lie: conflict diamonds funding wars, supporting apartheid for decades with our money, and pillaging the earth to find shiny carbon. And while we’re on the subject, why is it that women need to be asked and presented with a ring in order to get married? Why can’t they ask and do the presenting?
+1

drawpoker
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by drawpoker » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:13 pm

[quote="randomthrowaway"]

....She is caught up in what all her friends are doing or, should I say, receiving from their boyfriends/husbands. I've talked her down a little bit; however, she still would like a 'nice ring that she likes.' I don't understand it; I don't even care for jewelry and would prefer a rubber band on my ring finger. I also would like to use the money to buy a new fence or a new basement door...... /quote]

Please don't take this the wrong way or feel I am being snarky. That's not it.

Based on what you wrote I don't think you are ready for marriage. You are just not husband material.

Your belief that her desire for a traditional diamond engagement ring somehow springs from what "all her friends are doing/receiving from boyfriends/husbands" reflects you are pretty clueless about women.

And to say that you "don't understand it" ? Is it really all that difficult to understand, or are you just looking for ways to rationalize it in your mind, and then trying to convince others?

Sorry, am not buying.

And your daydreaming about spending the money to buy a new fence or a basement door instead, OMG, don't you realize what that sounds like? Just like some old guy, buys a fence or a new basement door for the silver or golden wedding anniversary. Instead of splurging on a nice, romantic gift (like jewelry) for the wife.

Like I say, please don't take offense. You said you wanted honest opinions, didn't you, just have to be real blunt about this. You are being not just cheap but clueless.

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bottlecap
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by bottlecap » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:18 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:What would you all say if his fiancé wanted him to get a car that would impress her friends? A house? It is easier to never start the status insanity than to try to end it.
I would say that is completely different. YOU are the one suggesting that the ring is solely to impress friends, but that is not typically the purpose of the ring, and if it is, he's got more problems. But you don't know this lady and can't cast aspersions.

Many women like jewelry. People on this site express their desires for nice cars, watches and other things that you might not care about. Why does anyone want anything but food?

You may not agree or understand it, but Is it so impossible to fathom that this lady actually wants a diamond engagement ring?

JT

victork
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by victork » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:21 pm

Yes, you're being "CHEAP."
That is, Careful Handling Expensive Alternative Purchases.
You describe yourself as careful with money. You are willing to pay for an education and a house, but want to reserve your resources for things you deem important. Actually, you're just being yourself.
I think that you need to talk with the lady, about how important an expensive ring is to her, especially in comparison to the alternative uses for the money. If you spend your money on X, then you can't spend it on Y.
Luxuries are certainly appealing, but my own leaning is to make sure that needs are met before wants are indulged. Certainly, there is room in life for both, but looking at the big picture can help you decide which items best fit into your lives.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:31 pm

bottlecap wrote:
TomatoTomahto wrote:What would you all say if his fiancé wanted him to get a car that would impress her friends? A house? It is easier to never start the status insanity than to try to end it.
I would say that is completely different. YOU are the one suggesting that the ring is solely to impress friends, but that is not typically the purpose of the ring, and if it is, he's got more problems. But you don't know this lady and can't cast aspersions.
I respectfully disagree. I don't know this woman, and neither do you. The one who presumably knows her best, among us, is OP, who said
She is caught up in what all her friends are doing or, should I say, receiving from their boyfriends/husbands.
Is he casting aspersions?
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

KlangFool
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:35 pm

Folks,

It took TS 5 years to pay off 35K student loan. So, 2K to 5K is a lot of money to TS. So, TS and his GF need to come to agreement and understanding as to whether it makes sense to get into debt again for a 2K to 5K ring.

KlangFool

dgdevil
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by dgdevil » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:36 pm

bottlecap wrote:People on this site express their desires for nice cars, watches and other things that you might not care about.
Yeah, but we don't expect wifey to ignore financial commonsense and buy these for us.
bottlecap wrote:Is it so impossible to fathom that this lady actually wants a diamond engagement ring?
Then she can buy it herself. It's 2014.

Rodc
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Rodc » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:37 pm

Cubic zirconium, aforementioned sapphires, and nontraditional gemstones just aren't going to cut it.
I'll have to tell my wife. She has the sapphire she requested
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:40 pm

bottlecap wrote:Many women like jewelry. People on this site express their desires for nice cars, watches and other things that you might not care about. Why does anyone want anything but food?

You may not agree or understand it, but Is it so impossible to fathom that this lady actually wants a diamond engagement ring?
For the record, my wife liked jewelry when she was a young woman. She bought herself diamond stud earrings, for a 5-digit amount, that even I can see the beauty of. She would not, as my fiancé, have asked me for jewelry to impress her friends. Ditto cars (which she also likes).

I have objections to the status-display, but more than that, I think it's an era of equitable marriage.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.

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Dutch
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Dutch » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:42 pm

Will she buy you a $2,000 - $5,000 wedding gift as well?

livesoft
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by livesoft » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:52 pm

Come to think of it, maybe I did borrow the money for the wedding rings from my future spouse.

And who buys the rings in a same-sex marriage?
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drawpoker
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by drawpoker » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:02 pm

Let's try and stay on topic here.

If the OP can't fathom anything else maybe he can grasp that he is not purchasing a depreciating asset if he does the gentlemanly thing and presents traditional stone.

As long as he buys a top quality, high grade solitaire he is acquiring an asset that will appreciate in worth, not depreciate.

Case closed

RobInCT
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by RobInCT » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:03 pm

Wow, lots of judging going on in this thread.

OP, are you and your girlfriend generally on the same page with respect to finances? Have you discussed shared goals, and do you generally agree about how you will make big decisions about money? If so, buy the ring. If not, then don't it ring. Not because it's too expensive but because you're not ready to get married, and the concern about the ring is just a symptom of it.

Relationships are about compromise. It's not about agreeing about everything or getting your own way all the time. My partner likes handbags to a degree I find truly puzzling. I'm sure she feels the same way about my fondness for restaurants. But we agree on the big stuff, stay within a plan we've both agreed to, and generally respect each other enough to keep our mouths shut about each other's infrequent or small purchases as long as those purchases don't undermine the overarching goals.

My partner and I are not yet engaged, but when the time comes, I will happily spend between $0 and [any non budget-destroying number of her choosing, likely in excess of $5000, but I also make more than you do] in accordance with her preferences. She's the one who is going to have to wear it every day, not me.

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Dutch
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Dutch » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:11 pm

drawpoker wrote:As long as he buys a top quality, high grade solitaire he is acquiring an asset that will appreciate in worth, not depreciate.
I have never heard of diamonds appreciating in price, not when we are talking about re-sale.

leonard
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by leonard » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:14 pm

drawpoker wrote:Let's try and stay on topic here.

If the OP can't fathom anything else maybe he can grasp that he is not purchasing a depreciating asset if he does the gentlemanly thing and presents traditional stone.

As long as he buys a top quality, high grade solitaire he is acquiring an asset that will appreciate in worth, not depreciate.

Case closed
DeBeers? Diamond Market rigged? Hit Google.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

littlebird
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by littlebird » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:15 pm

I think you should marry someone who's values you respect, even when you don't share them.

drawpoker
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by drawpoker » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:22 pm

Dutch wrote:
drawpoker wrote:
I have never heard of diamonds appreciating in price, not when we are talking about re-sale.
Have you ever heard of inflation?

Assuming the marriage lasts for many decades and does not go into the divorce crapper in a few short years

Also assuming he doesn't overpay at regular retail - yes, many years from now that diamond will increase its value.

takeshi
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by takeshi » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:25 pm

RobInCT wrote:Relationships are about compromise. It's not about agreeing about everything or getting your own way all the time. My partner likes handbags to a degree I find truly puzzling. I'm sure she feels the same way about my fondness for restaurants.
Very much this. The OP and his girlfriend need to work this out versus trying to label one as "cheap" and the other as "extravagant". My wife and I happen to agree on some expenditures but, like RobinCT, there are areas where we each find puzzled by the other's interest on a particular type of item but we work through such situations to an agreeable compromise. If the OP and his girlfriend can't work through this then they're going to have constant trouble down the road. People and relationships (and budget and finances, etc) vary so there isn't one correct answer to such a question.

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backpacker
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by backpacker » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:00 pm

drawpoker wrote: As long as he buys a top quality, high grade solitaire he is acquiring an asset that will appreciate in worth, not depreciate.
Not so much. From the article:
“Diamonds as an investment almost always fail,” [Jewelry appraiser Neal Beaty] says. The cost -- and appraisal value -- of a piece of jewelry isn’t just the value of the diamond plus the value of the gold or platinum. You’re also paying for the cost of making the piece, and selling it to you, the rent, the middlemen, the intimidatingly clean jewelry cases. Just like a new car or a couch, the resale value often falls once you get your hands on it. “People don’t think of diamonds as a consumer purchase,” Neil says. “They are.”

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Riceman
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Riceman » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:13 pm

We don't know the big picture, as you haven't laid it out. But I recommend focusing on it. Is this going to be part of a larger trend of purchasing? Or does this women share your values (including financially, which is as important as any other) but has always dreamed of a nice ring? If the latter, I would buy the ring and accept it is one of the compromises that makes a successful marriage.

In my wife's case, she had always dreamed of walking down the aisle with her father. I would have been happy with a courthouse wedding. But giving her the opportunity to walk down the aisle with her father became the starting point of planning our wedding.

We bought nice but relatively affordable rings, and I gave a family ring (always great if available to you) as an engagement ring.

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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by TexasPenny » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:32 pm

EnjoyIt wrote:My advice in conjunction with my wife:

What you should do is sit down with your future wife and lay out your finances. Show her how much you make and spend. Show her how hard you worked to pay off your debt. Show her how much you save and what your financial goals are. Then go buy the ring with her and let her make the decision with the full knowledge of how it will affect your future. This way it will be her decision if she wants a $500 ring or a $5k ring. Then be content with her decision.

On the same hand in the process of this discussion you can talk about finances and what both of your goals are and how to accomplish it. I'm sure you are aware on how important it is to be at least in a similar page.
I agree with this completely. Just talk to her and lay it all out. Does she want to wear the engagement ring with her wedding band? Or, after the wedding, will she just want to wear the band? If so, maybe you can get a smaller engagement ring. Let her really think about what's important to her and WHY it's important to her. She will be wearing it every day, and when she looks at it, she will think of you. Go into this experience together and in agreement. I also thought that suggestion of getting custom rings was awesome. I had a $18.00 engagement ring of silver and amber that just needed to last the year till the wedding, and every day I wear a $2500 band that I designed from this site (http://www.mokume-gane.com/index.php?pa ... ding_rings). My husband has one too that is similar, but different that he loves just as much.

drawpoker
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by drawpoker » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:42 pm

backpacker, the link you put up primarily relates to jilted suitors. :( :( From the viewpoint of a retail jeweler. Guys who were left at the altar, then think they can get 100% of money back when they try to take ring back to the same place where they bought it 3 or 4 months earlier. :( :(

That is not What I meant about investment=grade diamonds are an appreciating, not a depreciating, asset. Not short term trading, but buy and hold. (Doesn't that have a familiar, er, ring, to it? :P )

The OP whined that diamond engagement rings were "overpriced" in his opinion. Well, yes, If he buys at regular retail at the fancy jewelry stores at his local mall, yes he will overpay.

Bogleheads are smarter than that. Or should be. There are ways to purchase top-grade diamonds, along with other precious gems like sapphires, emeralds, rubies, at far less than retail prices. In fact, there have been whole threads here in recent weeks on this forum on just that subject.

The OP could do a search

Gronnie
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Gronnie » Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:53 pm

drawpoker wrote:
Dutch wrote:
drawpoker wrote:
I have never heard of diamonds appreciating in price, not when we are talking about re-sale.
Have you ever heard of inflation?

Assuming the marriage lasts for many decades and does not go into the divorce crapper in a few short years

Also assuming he doesn't overpay at regular retail - yes, many years from now that diamond will increase its value.
Wow, I don't know which post was worse, this one or your previous one.

Caduceus
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by Caduceus » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:08 am

She, sadly, likes rings and would settle for something less expensive but those look cheap.
It seems like she just wants something that looks nice, not necessarily something that's expensive?

I do think the diamond thing is very much a status symbol. It seems odd that of all the gemstones in the world that people would consistently fall in love with diamonds, rather than fire opals or star sapphires. It's also odd that size of the gem, rather than its history or design, should be paramount. In lapidaries, sapphires, and not diamonds, are the symbol of fidelity. Go figure ...

But surely there's a little gender bias at work here. I don't think we'd be having the same conversation (well, not the same tone) if someone wanted to buy a car that was $5,000 more expensive than the next best alternative, or if someone wanted to put in kitchen upgrades for that same amount. I think it's hard for us (myself included) to comprehend that some people might truly value a $5,000 ring more than a variety of other things the money could be put to.

Anyway, if I were in your position, I would not get my boyfriend the ring unless we both agreed to save up for it over a period of time by giving up something else.

UADM
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by UADM » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:16 am

fposte wrote:What concerns me is that you're identifying what she wants as wasteful and what you want as practical, framing your wishes as inherently better rather than just different. I think that's more of a challenge than whether or not you buy a ring, because you're going to need to be able to figure out your goals together on an ongoing basis, not just on this one purchase. Will you two ever spend money on something she likes but you don't? How can you find a way to be okay with that, or can she be okay with always acceding to what you think is right when it comes to money?

This is a really good opportunity for a discussion about all this.

(And in a forum where plenty of people have boats and nice cars and fancy cameras and extensive travel plans for pure hedonism, I think it's a problem that that jewelry tends to get disproportionately disparaged as an expense. It's not my thing any more than a boat is, but it's not exactly ephemeral.)
Sorry, but if she wants it that is fine... let HER pay for it then. If she expects him to buy it for her, then it is very much his decision based on what he thinks is wasteful or practical. The whole idea of a man having to buy an expensive ring to win over a woman is sexist and insulting.

If she wants an expensive ring, have her pay the cost of the ring and buy YOU a gift that you'd like for the same price she is asking you to pay. That would be fair and reasonable.

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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by drawpoker » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:22 am

UADM wrote:.......If she expects him to buy it for her, then it is very much his decision based on what he thinks is wasteful or practical. The whole idea of a man having to buy an expensive ring to win over a woman is sexist and insulting.
You are joking, aren't you? Instead of the ring, what do you suggest? Club her over the head and drag her back to his ManCave to officially become his mate?

Next thing, you will be telling us that when the minister intones during the ceremony that the rings that are produced are "symbols" of their love ==

That is all sexist and insulting crap, too ?

Gimmee a break

UADM
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by UADM » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:25 am

drawpoker wrote:
Please don't take this the wrong way or feel I am being snarky. That's not it.

Based on what you wrote I don't think you are ready for marriage. You are just not husband material.

Your belief that her desire for a traditional diamond engagement ring somehow springs from what "all her friends are doing/receiving from boyfriends/husbands" reflects you are pretty clueless about women.

And to say that you "don't understand it" ? Is it really all that difficult to understand, or are you just looking for ways to rationalize it in your mind, and then trying to convince others?

Sorry, am not buying.

And your daydreaming about spending the money to buy a new fence or a basement door instead, OMG, don't you realize what that sounds like? Just like some old guy, buys a fence or a new basement door for the silver or golden wedding anniversary. Instead of splurging on a nice, romantic gift (like jewelry) for the wife.

Like I say, please don't take offense. You said you wanted honest opinions, didn't you, just have to be real blunt about this. You are being not just cheap but clueless.
If marriage or "husband material" means that the man has to buy an expensive shiny decoration for the woman in order for her to love him, then I'd say you were the clueless one. The whole tradition is sexist, insulting, outdated, and preposterous. Could you imagine if it was the woman that needed to spend $1000s to buy something shiny for a man in order for her to be "wife material"... oh how quickly perspectives would change!
drawpoker wrote:
UADM wrote:.......If she expects him to buy it for her, then it is very much his decision based on what he thinks is wasteful or practical. The whole idea of a man having to buy an expensive ring to win over a woman is sexist and insulting.
You are joking, aren't you? Instead of the ring, what do you suggest? Club her over the head and drag her back to his ManCave to officially become his mate?

Next thing, you will be telling us that when the minister intones during the ceremony that the rings that are produced are "symbols" of their love ==

That is all sexist and insulting crap, too ?

Gimmee a break
I'd suggest the same thing the woman buys a man now... nothing. Why do you think it is reasonable to continue to participate in an archaic one sided purchase? Why do you think such a purchase is necessary for love or marriage? If this preposterous tradition were reversed, women would flip the f out...
Last edited by UADM on Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

drawpoker
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Re: Am I being cheap?

Post by drawpoker » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:32 am

Well, it is very clear it won't be long before this thread gets padlocked.

When it has gone so far downhill that now cheapskate men try to justify their refusal to buy a nice diamond engagement ring by yelling equal rights and sex discrimination. Oh, how unjust it is for these poor fellows !

Gimmee another break please

Locked