Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

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awintensiveporpoises
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Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by awintensiveporpoises » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:04 am

Hello fellow Bogleheads!

I'm looking to move to a town in which to put down roots and raise a family. I've finally come to the conclusion that life is too short not to live in a place you find beautiful. So, below are some criteria I'm looking for, and I look forward to any recommendations you might share with me.

* Within an hour of a "big" city, with 500K + population
* 4 distinct seasons, bearable winter
* excellent public school system
* mid-low cost of living
* Beautiful scenery

Whatcha got?

matonplayer
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by matonplayer » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:31 am

Hendersonville, NC almost makes all of your criteria. 1/2 hour from Asheville, which isn't quite as big as you want, and 2 hours from Charlotte NC. Scenery to die for, 4 mild seasons. And although it wasn't necessary for us, I believe the public schools are excellent.

We move there in a month. :)

Sammyshanker
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by Sammyshanker » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:34 am

Roseville, California meets your criteria. I have lived in Roseville for 14 years and still love it. Summers can be a little hot, but the winters are pretty mild. It is about 30 minutes from Sacramento and one hour and thirty minutes from San Francisco. If you like to ski or snowboard. It is about an hour from the Lake Tahoe area. If you like golfing, there are many reasonably priced courses in the area. The public schools are very good. I hope this helps.

TFinator
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by TFinator » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:38 am

My SO's parents live in Sebastopol, CA. Beautiful Northern CA town that is small. I am not sure about the schools honestly, but parent involvement is huge, which is a good thing. About 1 hr away from San Francisco. Hidden from the ocean, but close so weather is still mild. I like visiting and riding the bike paths and stopping to pick berries on the way. They collect them and make preserves which I am the happy beneficiary of!

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Chan_va
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by Chan_va » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:40 am

Charlottesville va.

EvelynM
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by EvelynM » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:48 am

Davis, CA - population 65k, totally bike-friendly, don't need a car to get around town, very close to Sacramento and an easy drive to San Francisco and Tahoe (and Amtrak service is also great). Great school system, lots of cultural activities, wonderful library system, access to UCD events. Four distinct seasons but winter is mild (fog, no snow). Cost of living is very reasonable, certainly nowhere as high as San Francisco. Nearby smaller towns have less expensive housing: Dixon, Winters, Woodland. It's a safe city (here are the daily police logs: http://police.cityofdavis.org/), and it's very beautiful, especially West Davis. I raised my kids here, moved to the ocean once they went to college, but after 11 years, I came back because I missed it so much. Especially if you like to ride bikes, this is the place for you and your family! There's a whole section in the link below about our 55 miles of bike paths in town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis,_California

emoore
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by emoore » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:53 am

Denver, CO or Fort Collins or Colorado Springs.

canderson
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by canderson » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:56 am

Chan_va wrote:Charlottesville va.
This was my first thought as well.

There likely is an area near Nashville that checks all these wants, too.

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Hayden
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by Hayden » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:56 am

If you don't mind snow in winter, Coeur d'Alene Idaho is beautiful, has lots of acticities, and is close to Spokane WA, which is a vibrant city.

Or, you could picka town on the WA side of the border, which means no income tax.

pshonore
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by pshonore » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:58 am

Any place in Connecticut (although Fairfield County would not meet the cost of living restriction). But most of the state is within 90 minutes of Boston or NYC. And I hope you like snow.

Sconie
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by Sconie » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:59 am

Might want to consider Hot Springs, Arkansas as a possibility.
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by raginrapids » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:17 am

Franklin, Tennessee. 30-45 mins from Nashville. Won Garden & Guns 2014 "Best Small Town". Excellent schools, downtown with cool independent stores, good restaurants.

http://gardenandgun.com/blog/you-voted-and-winner

CFM300
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by CFM300 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:35 am

OP, can you quantify "mid-low cost of living" the way you did for "big city"?

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jimb_fromATL
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by jimb_fromATL » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:40 am

* Within an hour of a "big" city, with 500K + population
* 4 distinct seasons, bearable winter
* excellent public school system
* mid-low cost of living
* Beautiful scenery
How about your job? A lot of the pretty places to live may be great for retirement, but may not have the industry and commerce to support very many of the better-paying jobs.
Hendersonville, NC almost makes all of your criteria. 1/2 hour from Asheville, which isn't quite as big as you want, and 2 hours from Charlotte NC. Scenery to die for, 4 mild seasons. And although it wasn't necessary for us, I believe the public schools are excellent.


I know folks who live in Hendersonville, and we have considered retiring there. But for younger folks, I'm not so sure. I'm reminded of a brochure I saw about one Western North Carolina county up in that area a few years ago when we were considering retiring to the mountains. It said words to the effect of -- and I am not making this up -- "...Some of the major sources of employment include beauty shop and back-hoe work..." Maybe a good place to retire. Maybe not so hot to make a living unless perhaps you own your own backhoe.

Couldn't find an online version of that brochure, but did run across this amusing tidbit with a web search for beauty shops and backhoes:
  • "...Kathys Beauty Shop is a Excavating Contractors company at Baxter,Tennessee,United States..."
Incidentally, you can live in the North Georgia mountains or foothills in beautiful country with relatively low taxes and cost of living and commute to the north side of the Atlanta area where there are lots of jobs in lots of fields. While the commute may be 40-50 miles, it's through pretty scenery with relatively light traffic, and the commute can often take less time than commuting 15-20 miles in rush hour traffic closer in to downtown Atlanta.

jimb

crg11
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Re: *Best town I've never heard of

Post by crg11 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:45 am

Any place in New Hampshire fits most of your requirements. We get all 4 seasons in their full glory, some of the most beautiful scenery around, no income/sales taxes, in most areas about a hour to Boston, and depending on the town, excellent school systems.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by Sunny Sarkar » Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:06 pm

awintensiveporpoises wrote:Hello fellow Bogleheads!

I'm looking to move to a town in which to put down roots and raise a family. I've finally come to the conclusion that life is too short not to live in a place you find beautiful. So, below are some criteria I'm looking for, and I look forward to any recommendations you might share with me.

* Within an hour of a "big" city, with 500K + population
* 4 distinct seasons, bearable winter
* excellent public school system
* mid-low cost of living
* Beautiful scenery

Whatcha got?
Cherry Hills Village/Littleton, CO - south of Denver - was runner up on my list when I relocated (to DFW).
"Cost matters". "Stay the course". "Press on, regardless". ― John C. Bogle

letsgobobby
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:24 pm

awintensiveporpoises wrote:Hello fellow Bogleheads!

I'm looking to move to a town in which to put down roots and raise a family. I've finally come to the conclusion that life is too short not to live in a place you find beautiful. So, below are some criteria I'm looking for, and I look forward to any recommendations you might share with me.

* Within an hour of a "big" city, with 500K + population
* 4 distinct seasons, bearable winter
* excellent public school system
* mid-low cost of living
* Beautiful scenery

Whatcha got?
Camas, WA
- 25 minutes to downtown Portland OR and only 15 minutes to the airport
- 4 mild seasons, winters mostly rainy but within an hour of snow; glorious summers and falls.
- best public schools in the state
- average+ cost of living but plenty of options, and no state income tax
- smack in the the Columbia River Gorge; 90 minutes to Mt Hood (skiing and hiking) and 2 hours to Mt Adams (hiking, camping, hunting, fishing); 3 hours to Yakima wine country

You could also look at a Salt Lake City Utah suburb, acknowledging the unique cultural considerations.

Ann Arbor, MI or any number of midwestern college towns also probably fit the bill with the 'scenic' part being a matter of taste.

davebarnes
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Evergreen, CO

Post by davebarnes » Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:53 pm

A nerd living in Denver

generalzodschicken
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by generalzodschicken » Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:56 pm

Suburbs of the Twin Cities. For example,
Orono, MN
Wayzata, MN
Maple Grove, MN (2nd best place to live in US, according to Money Magazine this year - http://time.com/money/3312310/maple-gro ... s-to-live/ )
Plymouth, MN (been in Money's top ten list a few times recently)
Woodbury, MN (on the St. Paul side)

Public schools are some of the best in the country. Best healthcare system in US. Ridiculously low cost of living for what you get. Great outdoors. Low crime. Low unemployment. Vibrant tech/medical sectors. Very family friendly. Very liberal compared to Midwest in general (that may be a positive or negative for you).

HOWEVER, define "bearable" winter. :shock:

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by Jeff Albertson » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:14 pm

WaPo liked New Hampshire, which scored 77.6, is easily the best anyone can do in the United States, followed by Minnesota (76.2), Vermont (74.8), Iowa (72.9); and North Dakota (72.4).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... 10-charts/

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by tludwig23 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:18 pm

Bellingham, WA

1 hour from Vancouver, BC; 1.5 hours from Seattle
Beautiful summer, distinct fall, rare snow in winter
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cfs
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by cfs » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:22 pm

This is the place.

This is the place . . . you can do a search for the gorgeous St George UTAH.
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TxAg
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by TxAg » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:23 pm

Fredericksburg, TX would be on my list....I'm a Texan, though. I'd love to visit (and maybe live in) some of the other cities mentioned.

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VictoriaF
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by VictoriaF » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:26 pm

OP, please provide a list of towns that you've never heard of.

Victoria
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letsgobobby
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by letsgobobby » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:31 pm

Nowhere in Texas has 4 distinct seasons, let's be serious. There's variations of hot, hot and humid, very hot and dry, and then mild winters with the occasional snow/ice storm.

St. George is not within an hour of a big city. It's 2 hours to Las Vegas.

Bellingham does not have a low-average cost of living, and is within 75 minutes of Vancouver only if the border crossing stars align, which is to say 'not often.' It's 90 minutes to Seattle with no traffic; let us guess how often that is.

OP didn't give us a ton of criteria, maybe we should try to honor the few he did.

rec7
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by rec7 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:33 pm

letsgobobby wrote:Nowhere in Texas has 4 distinct seasons, let's be serious. There's variations of hot, hot and humid, very hot and dry, and then mild winters with the occasional snow/ice storm.
How about Amarillo?

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by Crimsontide » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:38 pm

rec7 wrote:
letsgobobby wrote:Nowhere in Texas has 4 distinct seasons, let's be serious. There's variations of hot, hot and humid, very hot and dry, and then mild winters with the occasional snow/ice storm.
How about Amarillo?
Amarillo has two seasons: wind out of the south at 30 and wind out of the north at 40.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by nchowrin » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:39 pm

tludwig23 wrote:Bellingham, WA

1 hour from Vancouver, BC; 1.5 hours from Seattle
Beautiful summer, distinct fall, rare snow in winter
I concur on Bellingham, WA. I've been retired here for over 5 years now. It's a very walkable town with lots of outdoor activity. Summers are glorious with long mild sunny days. Winters are also relatively mild, with little or no snow, but it's not for sun worshipers. The cost of living is about average for the US and there's no income tax. Bellingham also shows up on many lists of great places to retire. As noted, both Vancouver, BC and Seattle are an easy drive if you need some big city excitement. I can actually see Canada when I'm outside! :happy I live in the Fairhaven neighborhood and it's without a doubt the best neighborhood I've ever lived, which includes cities & towns in California, Texas, and Florida. It's worth checking out.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by tainted-meat » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:42 pm

That's easy, Bloomington, Indiana. It's 45 minutes South of Indianapolis.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by Sidney » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:57 pm

generalzodschicken wrote:Suburbs of the Twin Cities. For example,
Orono, MN
Wayzata, MN
Maple Grove, MN (2nd best place to live in US, according to Money Magazine this year - http://time.com/money/3312310/maple-gro ... s-to-live/ )
Plymouth, MN (been in Money's top ten list a few times recently)
Woodbury, MN (on the St. Paul side)

Public schools are some of the best in the country. Best healthcare system in US. Ridiculously low cost of living for what you get. Great outdoors. Low crime. Low unemployment. Vibrant tech/medical sectors. Very family friendly. Very liberal compared to Midwest in general (that may be a positive or negative for you).

HOWEVER, define "bearable" winter. :shock:
If summer falls on a weekend, people barbecue.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by donaldfair71 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:52 pm

Leesburg Virginia.

Top 3 small town by Money magazine in 2012, pockets of areas with decent housing. Less than an hour from dc. 25 minutes from Fairfax. Wealthiest county in America (Loudoun).

Less than an hour from Fairfax is Winchester, Va. Awesome, awesome, awesome little town to live in. Has an Old Town that's wonderful, a nice growing young population, unreal low COL. And the Shenandoah mountains surround it. Still had a small town feel.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by bowtie » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:55 pm

But don't these towns in Virginia and a few others have lots of snow, and therefore aren't very mild in winter?
I haven't started another thread - I was going to post a similar question about suggestions and then to my surprise found people posting similar questions to mine (if I get more specific in my questions or criteria I guess I 'll post my own thread/question).
Thanks.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by BahamaMan » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:59 pm

generalzodschicken wrote:Suburbs of the Twin Cities. For example,
Orono, MN
Wayzata, MN
Maple Grove, MN (2nd best place to live in US, according to Money Magazine this year - http://time.com/money/3312310/maple-gro ... s-to-live/ )
Plymouth, MN (been in Money's top ten list a few times recently)
Woodbury, MN (on the St. Paul side)

Public schools are some of the best in the country. Best healthcare system in US. Ridiculously low cost of living for what you get. Great outdoors. Low crime. Low unemployment. Vibrant tech/medical sectors. Very family friendly. Very liberal compared to Midwest in general (that may be a positive or negative for you).

HOWEVER, define "bearable" winter. :shock:
I've lived in Plymouth, MN for 30 years, but I have to escape to Florida or the Bahamas for 3 months minimum. -- And we have 6 months of winter here. This is a great place for about 6 months of the year, but I can't handle early Spring, Winter or Late Fall any more! 8-)

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by rooms222 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:46 pm

Also, Columbus IN. Less than an hour from both Indianapolis and Bloomington. Also pretty close to Cincy and Louisville. The large corporations there, particularly Cummins diesel have made the town beautiful by subsidizing many buildings to have famous architects design them, and they have excellent schools.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by bestplans » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:53 pm

Newark, NJ

(OK I'm kidding)

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cheese_breath
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by cheese_breath » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:56 pm

Check out Money magazine's Best Places to Live in 2014

http://time.com/money/3312309/mckinney- ... s-to-live/
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

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kenyan
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by kenyan » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:01 pm

You know, I've never been there (aside from passing through), but I'd say Los Alamos, NM. Seasons, scenery/mountains, just over one hour from Albuquerque, highly educated and excellent schools. Santa Fe is close for jobs outside of scientific pursuits.
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by jlawrence01 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:11 pm

kenyan wrote:You know, I've never been there (aside from passing through), but I'd say Los Alamos, NM. Seasons, scenery/mountains, just over one hour from Albuquerque, highly educated and excellent schools. Santa Fe is close for jobs outside of scientific pursuits.

If Los Alamos, NM meets the standards, so does Oak Ridge, TN.

However, do remember that in BOTH towns, you buy a house on the faith that the federal government has properly contained nuclear waste in their facilities. That may NOT be a valid assumption considering other nuclear sites.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by joe8d » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:12 pm

I know that Amherst,NY is on that MONEY list.
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by jginseattle » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:35 pm

Kirkland, Washington.

#5 on Money Magazine's Best Small Towns in the current issue. 15 minutes from Seattle.

My brother's in Real Estate in the area if you decide to move. :happy

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by atwood » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:39 pm

donaldfair71 wrote:Leesburg Virginia.

Top 3 small town by Money magazine in 2012, pockets of areas with decent housing. Less than an hour from dc. 25 minutes from Fairfax. Wealthiest county in America (Loudoun).

Less than an hour from Fairfax is Winchester, Va. Awesome, awesome, awesome little town to live in. Has an Old Town that's wonderful, a nice growing young population, unreal low COL. And the Shenandoah mountains surround it. Still had a small town feel.
I recently visited a friend who lives in Winchester. It's a nice place. I was surprised, though, by the high taxes in Virginia.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by goldendad » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:45 pm

Agree with emoore - the Front Range of Colorado - Fort Collins, Louisville, Longmont, Monument, Colorado Springs. We have lived in western Denver/Golden since 1986 and have not regretted it. Good place to raise a family.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by Jazztonight » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:00 pm

Two phrases that have always rung true to me:

1. Life is full of little compromises.

2. You can't always get what you want, but if you try...you might get what you need (paraphrased, but with full credit to Mick Jagger).

Perfect climate, great schools, near a city, airport, not too expensive?

OP did not mention an agreeable political climate, a nearby university, a large body of water, the crime rate, a good public transit system, a diverse and tolerant community, a nearby Costco, the right church/synagogue/other religious community, etc., etc.

If you are really planning to relocate, my personal experience is that you just can't get it all. (See 1 and 2 above.)
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by jjunk » Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:39 pm

jginseattle wrote:Kirkland, Washington.

#5 on Money Magazine's Best Small Towns in the current issue. 15 minutes from Seattle.
I don't think Kirkland would check the "affordable" box for most but I have to agree. Eastside Seattle is a fantastic place to live and if you have a tech background, you might be able to bite into those costs with a higher salary.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by jdb » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:14 am

I don't want to be snarky but this post seems a little silly. All great towns and cities and locations, I have lived in or visited many and have relatives and friends in many (with 22 first cousins and their families spread throughout US could travel a lot and stay with them without need for hotel). But IMHO could be happy anywhere in this country if had good health, family, job (or retired with financial security), friends and hobbies. I live in South Florida but would be happy in Fairbanks Alaska or any city or town in this country if had those much more important things, regardless of climate or geography.
Last edited by jdb on Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by VictoriaF » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:10 am

Jazztonight wrote:Two phrases that have always rung true to me:

1. Life is full of little compromises.

2. You can't always get what you want, but if you try...you might get what you need (paraphrased, but with full credit to Mick Jagger).

Perfect climate, great schools, near a city, airport, not too expensive?

OP did not mention an agreeable political climate, a nearby university, a large body of water, the crime rate, a good public transit system, a diverse and tolerant community, a nearby Costco, the right church/synagogue/other religious community, etc., etc.

If you are really planning to relocate, my personal experience is that you just can't get it all. (See 1 and 2 above.)
People intuitively understand that they can't get it all, and their listed selection criteria imply other, tightly associated factors. For example, it would be silly for me to state that I want to live in a high cost area. But if I emphasize culture and public transportation, I implicitly agree to have a higher cost of living and pay higher taxes.

Victoria
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by TimeRunner » Sun Oct 12, 2014 9:59 am

It's the high cost areas that always attract me. I like the root causes of the high cost...like beautiful beaches, fine schools, skiing out your door, historic old town districts, estate living, outdoor recreation.... Dang, there seems to be a relationship between high cost and all that other good stuff. Who knew? :mrgreen:
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Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by letsgobobby » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:17 am

TimeRunner wrote:It's the high cost areas that always attract me. I like the root causes of the high cost...like beautiful beaches, fine schools, skiing out your door, historic old town districts, estate living, outdoor recreation.... Dang, there seems to be a relationship between high cost and all that other good stuff. Who knew? :mrgreen:
But it's not an inviolate relationship which is presumably the point of this thread.

RadAudit
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 10:20 am
Location: Second star on the right and straight on 'til morning

Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by RadAudit » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:20 am

How about either Boone, N.C. or Blowing Rock, N.C.?

Both towns appeared to be delightful places when I was up there a couple of years ago.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The cavalry isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

Valuethinker
Posts: 38210
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Best town I've never heard of [for relocating]

Post by Valuethinker » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:30 am

awintensiveporpoises wrote:Hello fellow Bogleheads!

I'm looking to move to a town in which to put down roots and raise a family. I've finally come to the conclusion that life is too short not to live in a place you find beautiful. So, below are some criteria I'm looking for, and I look forward to any recommendations you might share with me.

* Within an hour of a "big" city, with 500K + population
* 4 distinct seasons, bearable winter
* excellent public school system
* mid-low cost of living
* Beautiful scenery

Whatcha got?
Here is my view.

There are a lot of shangri-las out there, but when you retire. When you have kids, working on a career that's a lot harder. Also your spouse's career has to be considered: bigger centers have more job opportunities for both spouses.

Small places don't have the career opportunities. You get a job, and you hope like hell the employer doesn't rationalize or shut down, because then you have to move. Other than 'key' employers (an industry, university, government) in small towns, generally the jobs are minimum wage work, contracting etc. If you are self employed and can work at a distance, that changes things-- as long as you are fairly sure you can keep that up for your remaining career.

If you have to commute to a bigger place then others will have had the same idea. So beware traffic. And if not traffic now, then in 5 years. And what looks doable in summer is not so in the middle of winter.

So what you want to target is a place you are OK living that has the great public schools. And a reasonable commute.

When your kids are finished school it matters less where you live. Your career may be in a position to downshift or sideshift. THEN you can look for the perfect small to medium sized place.

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