No more paper savings bonds

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hollowcave2
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forms

Post by hollowcave2 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:15 pm

Well this sucks. I tried out treasury direct in the past and didn't like it. There was no way to get any proof about what I owned. No paper or electronic statements ever. So, I stopped using it.
1) You can print out the screen when you list the bonds on the computer.

2) TD does offer official tax forms when necessary. They are downloaded from the site. When you print those, it's just like getting it in the mail.

Avo
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Post by Avo » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:17 pm

Jay69 wrote:Not so sure I would want to send 10K of paper bonds in the mail.
I once sent in over 100K in EE bonds that needed to be reissued in the name of my father's living trust. They all came back reissued about 3 weeks later.

This process made me very nervous, but I kept careful records, including photocopying every bond.

Angst
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Post by Angst » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:17 pm

Here's the email I just got back from TD. If the writer knows what they're talking about, there will be no more mail-in paper bonds either, and the limit is staying at $5,000. It doesn't look good.
Hi,

Please be advised, the mail-in form provided on TreasuryDirect is for purchasing paper bonds. This method of purchase will be discontinued at the end of this calendar year. Final applications must be received by December 31, 2011, to be acceptable.

When Treasury stops selling paper savings bonds through over-the-counter (OTC) channels after December 31, 2011, it will not affect the current limit on savings bonds in TreasuryDirect®. The annual (calendar year) purchase limit applying to Series EE and Series I savings bonds is $5,000, issue price, for each series. The limit is applied per social security number (SSN) or taxpayer identification number (TIN). Each calendar year, an investor may purchase a principal amount of $5,000 of each type of security, for a total of $10,000 once OTC sales of paper bonds end.

Conversions of paper bonds into TreasuryDirect do not count towards your annual purchase limit. Bonds you receive as gifts are considered as part of your annual limit in the year they are received. For more information, please visit www.treasurydirect.gov.

Ending sales of paper savings bonds is a continuation of Treasury's all-electronic effort announced in April 2010. The initiative will save an estimated $70 million over the next five years. Paper savings bonds are costly to produce and maintain. There are costs to print, ship, and store bond stock; to inscribe and mail bonds; and to provide lobby services through financial institutions. Technology makes it possible for us to sell and maintain savings bonds and other Treasury securities electronically in TreasuryDirect at a reduced expense to taxpayers.

Sincerely,

Ella D.
Customer Service Representative
Treasury Services

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IlikeJackB
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Post by IlikeJackB » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:21 pm

Does anyone else remember buying Savings Bond Stamps at the Post Office in the 1950's? I remember going there with my mom and buying them. If I remember correctly the stamps were $.25 each. I believe when you got the stamp book full you had paid a total of $18.75, which you then turned in for a $25.00 face value U. S. Savings Bond. I can't remember how long it took to reach maturity. Times sure have changed! :shock:

Edit: After doing a little research it looks like the stamps cost $.10 each, not $.25. I guess we got up to $18.70 in the book and turned that in, and a nickel, to get the $25.00 Bond. :?:
Last edited by IlikeJackB on Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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hollowcave2
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good email

Post by hollowcave2 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:22 pm

Thanks for the email answer above.

OK, that answers my question about limits.

$5K for each series, so if you can stand EE's, you could get $10K total.

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Sheepdog
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Post by Sheepdog » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:44 pm

IlikeJackB wrote:Does anyone else remember buying Savings Bond Stamps at the Post Office in the 1950's? I remember going there with my mom and buying them. If I remember correctly the stamps were $.25 each. I believe when you got the stamp book full you had paid a total of $18.75, which you then turned in for a $25.00 face value U. S. Savings Bond. I can't remember how long it took to reach maturity. Times sure have changed! :shock:

Edit: After doing a little research it looks like the stamps cost $.10 each, not $.25. I guess we got up to $18.70 in the book and turned that in, and a nickel, to get the $25.00 Bond. :?:
Yes, I remember those stamp books well. The program started during WWII which is when I purchased them at school. My mother would give me some dimes to buy the stamps.
That was a great program for a child to learn about saving, the power of interest, and how to invest in their great country. Paper savings bonds were visible evidence that you supported the USA. It showed that the country needed you.
Awful cancellation
Jim
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Rager1
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Post by Rager1 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:07 pm

Rager1 wrote:I just sent the following question to Treasury Direct:
Since paper I Bonds will no longer be sold effective January 1, 2012, will I be able to purchase $10,000 per calendar year in electronic I Bonds, or, will I be able to buy only $5,000 in electronic I Bonds?

Right now, I can purchase $5,000 in paper and $5,000 in electronic form.

Thank you.
I'll post their response here.

Ed
Here is the response I received from Treasury Direct:
Hi,

No. When Treasury stops selling paper savings bonds through
over-the-counter (OTC) channels after December 31, 2011, it will not affect
the current limit on savings bonds in TreasuryDirect®. The annual
(calendar year) purchase limit applying to Series EE and Series I savings
bonds is $5,000, issue price, for each series. The limit is applied per
social security number (SSN) or taxpayer identification number (TIN). Each
calendar year, an investor may purchase a principal amount of $5,000 of
each type of security, for a total of $10,000 once OTC sales of paper bonds
end.

Conversions of paper bonds into TreasuryDirect do not count towards your
annual purchase limit. Bonds you receive as gifts are considered as part
of your annual limit in the year they are received. For more information,
please visit www.treasurydirect.gov.

Sincerely,
So, it looks like the total I Bonds an individual can purchase each calendar year, starting in 2012, will be $5,000. Unless, of course, you have a Trust account established at Treasury Direct that can purchase another $5,000 each calendar year.

Ed

p.s. An answer from TD was already posted above.

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Post by Anon1234 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:17 pm

Angst wrote:Here's the email I just got back from TD. If the writer knows what they're talking about, there will be no more mail-in paper bonds either, and the limit is staying at $5,000. It doesn't look good.
Hi,

Please be advised, the mail-in form provided on TreasuryDirect is for purchasing paper bonds. This method of purchase will be discontinued at the end of this calendar year. Final applications must be received by December 31, 2011, to be acceptable.

When Treasury stops selling paper savings bonds through over-the-counter (OTC) channels after December 31, 2011, it will not affect the current limit on savings bonds in TreasuryDirect®. The annual (calendar year) purchase limit applying to Series EE and Series I savings bonds is $5,000, issue price, for each series. The limit is applied per social security number (SSN) or taxpayer identification number (TIN). Each calendar year, an investor may purchase a principal amount of $5,000 of each type of security, for a total of $10,000 once OTC sales of paper bonds end.

Conversions of paper bonds into TreasuryDirect do not count towards your annual purchase limit. Bonds you receive as gifts are considered as part of your annual limit in the year they are received. For more information, please visit www.treasurydirect.gov.

Ending sales of paper savings bonds is a continuation of Treasury's all-electronic effort announced in April 2010. The initiative will save an estimated $70 million over the next five years. Paper savings bonds are costly to produce and maintain. There are costs to print, ship, and store bond stock; to inscribe and mail bonds; and to provide lobby services through financial institutions. Technology makes it possible for us to sell and maintain savings bonds and other Treasury securities electronically in TreasuryDirect at a reduced expense to taxpayers.

Sincerely,

Ella D.
Customer Service Representative
Treasury Services
That's silly.... They control the interest rate! Why not reduce paper bond rates X basis points versus electronic bonds to cover the costs of paper?

Edit:
85% Paper bonds of $2.3B 2010 bond sales = $1.955B Paper
$70,000,000/5years = $14,000,000 savings per year
$14,000,000/1,955,000,000 = 0.716% = 71.6 basis points

That is significant... Would you buy a paper bond if it paid 72 basis points less than the Treasury Direct version?
Last edited by Anon1234 on Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

foxfirev5
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Post by foxfirev5 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:18 pm

Well it was fun while it lasted. I just used the mail in form for the first time in May. I thought it was a great way to have a different investment on paper versus another log in and no assurance from TD that I would be covered in the event of tampering. :?

Stevewc
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Post by Stevewc » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:24 pm

I just wrote all my representatives.
This is a taste of my note to them.
You may notice the love flowing as I type? :D

What in the world is going on with our savings bonds?
I buy series I-Bonds often.
I now understand that they will not be available from my bank after the 1st of the year.
I would like to see the limits raised back up to where they were($30,000.00) a few years ago also. That limit was for each social security number in a family.
I thought the government appreciated the voters and tax payers buying savings bonds?
Do you all have your heads buried in the sand?
Thank You,
Steve
Last edited by Stevewc on Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by g40matt » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:28 pm

Reading the press release closely, the press release specifically says that sales through "FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS" will end. My read is that the Treasury will still accept the online mail in form, since it seems to consider that form of purchase different from purchasing from financial institutions.
WASHINGTON – The Bureau of the Public Debt announced today that as of January 1, 2012, paper savings bonds will no longer be sold at financial institutions.
Ending over-the-counter (OTC) sales of paper savings bonds at financial institutions is a continuation of Treasury's all-electronic initiative announced in April 2010.
Click on the Treasury Direct FAQ site to pull up general information about TD. Note, the different options in which to purchase bonds:
Paper savings bonds will still be available for purchase through financial institutions, or by using our online mail-in order form, or for I Bonds, with your IRS tax refund.
Seems to indicate three ways to purchase. One of which is ending now.

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hollowcave2
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email

Post by hollowcave2 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:32 pm

The emails from TD personnel clarify the issue of buying paper by mail-order:
Please be advised, the mail-in form provided on TreasuryDirect is for purchasing paper bonds. This method of purchase will be discontinued at the end of this calendar year. Final applications must be received by December 31, 2011, to be acceptable.

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stevewolfe
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Post by stevewolfe » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:38 pm

Nice. That's just great. It's really getting hard to believe that the real goal of Treasury isn't to just kill this program outright. Particularly if they just halve the contribution limit by not increasing the electronic option to cover the amount of paper purchase they are discontinuing.

Jfet
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Post by Jfet » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:42 pm

Well damn. I was just telling my wife last week about I-bonds and how we were going to start buying 20K a year to create a ladder.

:(

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market timer
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Post by market timer » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:45 pm

We need to start a grassroots movement not only to have paper bonds reinstated, but the limits raised to the old levels: $30K/year paper, $30K/year electronic.

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Post by Avo » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:04 pm

Does the AARP know about this? They seem to be pretty good at lobbying.

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Post by Jfet » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:14 pm

Avo wrote:Does the AARP know about this? They seem to be pretty good at lobbying.
Yeah, but to really get them involved you would need to phrase it to AARP members something like "Paper bonds are being cut and so is your Wheel of Fortune show...write your congress person".

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Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:24 pm

I wonder if Forbes would allow Mel to write an article on how the gubermint is looking to save the taxpayers money by cutting the little guy out a long lived and successful manner of saving?

Funny, the Fed sites, the Treasury all talk about saving - then they do an about face and make it harder and harder for the average guy to save.
Bunch of hypocrites.........

mslaw
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Post by mslaw » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:46 pm

Another possibility that may increase some purchase space is establishing an account for an entity. I realize this is not an option for everyone, but something to remember if you are attempting to make additional purchases.

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market timer
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Post by market timer » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:50 pm

mslaw wrote:Another possibility that may increase some purchase space is establishing an account for an entity. I realize this is not an option for everyone, but something to remember if you are attempting to make additional purchases.
Can you explain this a bit more?

mslaw
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Post by mslaw » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:05 pm

The Treasury Direct now accepts accounts from an entity. That is from a specified legal body. This is fairly new, maybe about two years that it has been available. It is of particular interest to trusts, self-directed 401(k)’s, and privately held companies.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/hel ... rnMore.htm

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Post by Mel Lindauer » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:19 pm

GRT2BOUTDOORS wrote:I wonder if Forbes would allow Mel to write an article on how the gubermint is looking to save the taxpayers money by cutting the little guy out a long lived and successful manner of saving?

Funny, the Fed sites, the Treasury all talk about saving - then they do an about face and make it harder and harder for the average guy to save.
Bunch of hypocrites.........
Forbes allows me to write about whatever's on my mind, and this is certainly on my mind. So, yes, you can expect to see a column on this fiasco shortly.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

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Dale_G
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Post by Dale_G » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:48 pm

Too bad. I have full confidence that my heirs will be able to find my paper bonds. I have less than full confidence that they will somehow retrieve the assets from TD.

Save $70 million. That must mean laying off about 140 people right? Yeah, right!

Dale

Edit: Oops, had to fix the math
Last edited by Dale_G on Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by nonnie » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:57 pm

market timer wrote:We need to start a grassroots movement not only to have paper bonds reinstated, but the limits raised to the old levels: $30K/year paper, $30K/year electronic.
As long as you're writing to your reps might as well ask for the limit to be raised although I'm a little more shaky than I once was about getting repaid.

exigent
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Post by exigent » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:23 pm

Regarding the purchase with your tax refund... Does anyone know how it works for married filing jointly? Can you each request a $5k savings bond as part of your refund? (Assuming that you've overpaid by $10k, of course.)

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Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:44 pm

nonnie wrote:
market timer wrote:We need to start a grassroots movement not only to have paper bonds reinstated, but the limits raised to the old levels: $30K/year paper, $30K/year electronic.
As long as you're writing to your reps might as well ask for the limit to be raised although I'm a little more shaky than I once was about getting repaid.
Well, I just wrote my rep a nice one page letter how his constiuents would be irreperably damaged by this action, the timeliness of the Treasury announcement looking to save a meager $14 Million off the taxpayer's back while we are two weeks away from a possible default of $14 Trillion, how it is a cost effective and efficient manner of providing gifts and saving for college education which at last look has not gotten any cheaper over the years (average annual bill far exceeds $10K in my home state for a state school) and I gave my plug for increasing the annual purchase limit above the suggested $5k. Not too mention how the folks at the Treasury are completely out of touch with the average American taxpayer.

Want to save $14 Million, let's start with a headcount reduction, namely the staff who calculated pro-forma results (also known as pie in the sky) and director whose name appears on the press release, followed up by the person who authorized this.

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Post by tipswatcher » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:48 pm

Grrr! … I have been blogging recently about the advantage I Bonds currently hold over TIPS. It’s a clear-cut advantage over a 5-year TIPS and a solid advantage over a 10-year TIPS.

This is a recent development. I Bonds weren’t so attractive when TIPS paid a 1% or more premium over an I Bond. But now, with TIPS rates in negative ranges for shorter terms, and only about .6% for a 10-year, I Bonds are suddenly way more attractive.

http://tipswatch.com/2011/07/13/i-bonds ... y-in-2012/

If the U.S. is telling small investors: Stick your money in banks or money market funds paying near zero interest, what is the real message?

Saving is for suckers?
TIPS: Perfect investment for imperfect times?

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Post by Manbaerpig » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:52 pm

I seriously feel like crying over this. No joke. I mean I bought some electronic I-bonds maybe 10 years ago, then forgot about them for the last 10 years, and got caught up in the paper advantages (replacement, loss protection, something cool to look at) so I've been going that route lately/because of this forum.

I honestly feel like a close personal friend or something just got hit by a bus and isn't coming back. :cry:

I have no idea what to do with my emergency fund now other than playing app-o-rama with various credit unions and chasing their 3-4% and jumping through all their hoops to do so :/

edit: if the federal government revised their policy with respect to investor protection in the case of fraud I might go the electronic route. But as is, no way

edit: are they really saving 70m a year if the treasury doesnt get people like me/us to invest in savings bonds AT ALL because TD is epic fail as far as protecting our assets (e.g., you get haxzored, so sorry, bye)

they're -$10k /yr from me now. Unless they somehow are profiting from the alternative... my proposed high-yield credit union app-o-rama plan B
Last edited by Manbaerpig on Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:53 pm

tipswatcher wrote:Grrr! … I have been blogging recently about the advantage I Bonds currently hold over TIPS. It’s a clear-cut advantage over a 5-year TIPS and a solid advantage over a 10-year TIPS.

This is a recent development. I Bonds weren’t so attractive when TIPS paid a 1% or more premium over an I Bond. But now, with TIPS rates in negative ranges for shorter terms, and only about .6% for a 10-year, I Bonds are suddenly way more attractive.

http://tipswatch.com/2011/07/13/i-bonds ... y-in-2012/

If the U.S. is telling small investors: Stick your money in banks or money market funds paying near zero interest, what is the real message?

Saving is for suckers?
The message is this: 1) the middle class and lower class don't exist in our eyes, 2) we're out of money to bail out the banks and money managers - the lobby says kill the program and send the cheap deposits to us, we'll pay 5 or 10 bps and lend out at 200 bps, 3) you sheeple don't count, 4) apparently we have to eat "peas", 5) they don't want us to have any savings, they want us to be in debt up to our eyeballs so we can stimulate what they know they can't.

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tipswatcher
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Post by tipswatcher » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:59 pm

The message is this: 1) the middle class and lower class don't exist in our eyes, 2) we're out of money to bail out the banks and money managers - the lobby says kill the program and send the cheap deposits to us, we'll pay 5 or 10 bps and lend out at 200 bps, 3) you sheeple don't count, 4) apparently we have to eat "peas", 5) they don't want us to have any savings, they want us to be in debt up to our eyeballs so we can stimulate what they know they can't.
Other days, you would have sounded a little 'conspiracy theorist.'

Today ... You sound completely sensible and I agree with you you almost all the way to number 5. ... Nice post!
TIPS: Perfect investment for imperfect times?

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Post by jsnbrnd » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:11 pm

IlikeJackB wrote:Does anyone else remember buying Savings Bond Stamps at the Post Office in the 1950's? I remember going there with my mom and buying them. If I remember correctly the stamps were $.25 each. I believe when you got the stamp book full you had paid a total of $18.75, which you then turned in for a $25.00 face value U. S. Savings Bond. I can't remember how long it took to reach maturity. Times sure have changed! :shock:

Edit: After doing a little research it looks like the stamps cost $.10 each, not $.25. I guess we got up to $18.70 in the book and turned that in, and a nickel, to get the $25.00 Bond. :?:
There were BOTH 10-cent and 25-cent stamps. I remember this well.

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Post by NAVigator » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:47 pm

Frustrated thoughts:
  • ▪ Is this done to save money?
    ▪ How much was spent developing the TD website?
    ▪ How much is saved by cutting the amount one can invest in half?
    ▪ Will this cost JOBS - like the person that corrected the spelling of the owners name on the paper I-bonds I just bought?
    ▪ Is this a decision made by the Treasury head?
    ▪ Is forgery of paper I-bonds an issue?
    ▪ Bonds usage appears to increase with age. Computer access and use decreases with age. Is there a conflict here?
The entire change is disappointing.

Jerry
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."

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torius71
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Post by torius71 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:58 pm

I have to wonder if many of the reactions here are a bit extreme/ misdirected. I have been complaining for years that the government could be saving tons of our money by modernizing itself. The rest of the world went paperless years ago for very good reasons.

With that being said, I understand many of the concerns here, so why not take half the savings generated by this change and upgrade the TD website? Provide some insurance to investors against fraud? Etc.

exigent
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Post by exigent » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:00 pm

torius71 wrote:I have to wonder if many of the reactions here are a bit extreme/ misdirected. I have been complaining for years that the government could be saving tons of our money by modernizing itself. The rest of the world went paperless years ago for very good reasons.

With that being said, I understand many of the concerns here, so why not take half the savings generated by this change and upgrade the TD website? Provide some insurance to investors against fraud? Etc.
I don't have a problem with going all-electronic. But I do have a problem with effectively cutting the purchase limit in half.

etm
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Post by etm » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:04 pm

I just wrote (via real mail) to my two senators and representative. As others have said, modernizing is fine, just don't cut the purchase limit in half.

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Credit Card Purchases For Savings Bonds

Post by JimTucson11 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:17 am

I remember the good old days when you could buy savings bonds with credit cards.......I would make my purchases near the end of the month and get two free months interest in addition to the rewards points on my card.

The best thing was getting those old I bonds when the rate was 3% or over.

Times sure have changed!

Jim

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Post by Midwest_Investor » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:46 am

etm wrote:I just wrote (via real mail) to my two senators and representative. As others have said, modernizing is fine, just don't cut the purchase limit in half.
would anyone care to share a sample letter that they've sent (with names deleted)??? I've never been creative enough to write such things on my own, and I'd like to send a letter.

.....

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topper1296
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Post by topper1296 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:18 am

I just started buying paper ibonds for the first time. I actually received my first one in the mail yesterday. If was nice while it lasted . . . which wasn't long in my case.

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Post by Aloysius » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:33 am

Jfet wrote:Well damn. I was just telling my wife last week about I-bonds and how we were going to start buying 20K a year to create a ladder.

:(
Ditto here. I will be back home in a couple of weeks from a year in Afghanistan and I was planning to start converting our savings account emergency fund into paper I-bonds. Maybe I should just bury it in mason jars in the backyard.

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Wow

Post by Buysider » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:41 am

I'm a real minority here I guess.

It is the way the world is going ... electronic. I understand the treasury website is way overboard on security relative to vanguard and most other financial institutions, but that is the price we pay for government. If they didn't have that security, I imagine fraud would be a larger (though still tiny) concern.

That being said, electronic storage of data has a lot of advantages over paper. What is the current value of expired, unredeemed savings bonds, $16.3 billion???? That is how much paper records are costing small US investors today. With electronic records, at least the treasury can search by SSN to find missing bonds - try doing that with your grandparents WWII bonds.

I understand that somepeople think electronic records have a risk of just disappearing, unlike paper bonds. But in my experience, paper has a habit of disappearing a lot more than a financial institutions electronic records with multiple off-site back-ups.

I imagine when automobiles came out, some people noted that if the car doesn't start, you're stuck, whereas a horse will always be able to walk home unless dead ... and cars died a lot more frequently than horses in the first decade or so...

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Re: Wow

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:58 am

Buysider wrote:I'm a real minority here I guess.

It is the way the world is going ... electronic. I understand the treasury website is way overboard on security relative to vanguard and most other financial institutions, but that is the price we pay for government. If they didn't have that security, I imagine fraud would be a larger (though still tiny) concern.

That being said, electronic storage of data has a lot of advantages over paper. What is the current value of expired, unredeemed savings bonds, $16.3 billion???? That is how much paper records are costing small US investors today. With electronic records, at least the treasury can search by SSN to find missing bonds - try doing that with your grandparents WWII bonds.

I understand that somepeople think electronic records have a risk of just disappearing, unlike paper bonds. But in my experience, paper has a habit of disappearing a lot more than a financial institutions electronic records with multiple off-site back-ups.

I imagine when automobiles came out, some people noted that if the car doesn't start, you're stuck, whereas a horse will always be able to walk home unless dead ... and cars died a lot more frequently than horses in the first decade or so...
That's one way to look at it and I'd be buying it if they didn't cut the annual allotment to purchase, but the very fact that they did indicates there is more to this than just moving on with the "times".

Now, let's look at the $16.3 billion currently matured but outstanding - I wonder if it ever occurred to those in the Treasury that a)folks are still holding on to those bonds because they represent the actual giving of a gift and by holding them they preserve a memory? or;

b)that holders of those securities are in fact providing the US goverment with an interest free loan of monies - a gift if you will, from the American Taxpayer to the American Goverment, very patriotic I might add. The Bureau of the Public Debt would rather pay a 3% discount merchant fee to a credit card company if someone were to volunteer to reduce the nation's debt with a credit card, but isn't willing to maintain $16.3 billion in matured and non-interest bearing debt. Tell me, what school graduated these dummies?

Angst
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Post by Angst » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:06 am

I just hope that all of the effort put into posts complaining about this I-bonds mess is accompanied by the minimal effort it takes to let TD and our members of congress know what we think.

I wrote notes specifically complaining that the maximum limit on I-bond purchases of $10,000 (5k paper + 5k electronic) has been effectively cut in half to $5,000. And that because I rely on I-bonds for structuring an important portion of my retirement savings, I requested that they increase the electronic limit from $5,000 to $10,000, effectively keeping it where it has already been. The elimination of paper bonds has been justified by the cost savings of not having to manage paper bonds. Electronic bonds are cost-efficient and there is no reason to reduce the effective total I-bonds purchase limit from $10,000 to $5,000.

Of course if you also want to ask for a paper reprieve, then do so! It's quick and easy.
Write your notes at these links. Cut & paste. Get it done, now!

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/ ... nators.htm
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/email.htm

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tfb
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Post by tfb » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:07 am

exigent wrote:Regarding the purchase with your tax refund... Does anyone know how it works for married filing jointly? Can you each request a $5k savings bond as part of your refund? (Assuming that you've overpaid by $10k, of course.)
You can buy paper I-Bonds for you and your spouse plus two additional owners and co-owners. Details in

Backdoor to Paper Savings Bonds
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

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tfb
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Post by tfb » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:27 am

We should all calm down and let our emotions settle. Ask the hard questions why we are upset. I-Bond limit is cut; do we turn around and buy electronic EEs? No, why not? If the real rate on I-Bonds is -3%, do we still want the $10k or $30k limit?

You will see at the bottom of these questions we just want a higher return on more money, a deal we can't get from the market. At who's cost? Are we just wanting a subsidy from other taxpayers who don't buy I-Bonds?
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

MrMiyagi
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Post by MrMiyagi » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:16 am

I haven't purchased any i-bonds this year?

Should I run to a bank and buy 5000 in paper now? How do I pay for ti...check?

Then buy another 5000 now electronically or wait till Nov? to buy it?

Grt2bOutdoors
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Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:23 am

tfb wrote:We should all calm down and let our emotions settle. Ask the hard questions why we are upset. I-Bond limit is cut; do we turn around and buy electronic EEs? No, why not? If the real rate on I-Bonds is -3%, do we still want the $10k or $30k limit?

You will see at the bottom of these questions we just want a higher return on more money, a deal we can't get from the market. At who's cost? Are we just wanting a subsidy from other taxpayers who don't buy I-Bonds?
You are certainly entitled to your opinion - I like to have options, something the US Treasury just arbitrarily decided to do away with. If I wanted a higher return, I'd invest in beta(equity) not save in savings bonds. There is a distinct difference between "saving" and "investing" - I'm surprised you failed to note that in your post.

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Sheepdog
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Post by Sheepdog » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:24 am

tfb wrote:
exigent wrote:Regarding the purchase with your tax refund... Does anyone know how it works for married filing jointly? Can you each request a $5k savings bond as part of your refund? (Assuming that you've overpaid by $10k, of course.)
You can buy paper I-Bonds for you and your spouse plus two additional owners and co-owners. Details in

Backdoor to Paper Savings Bonds
Thanks for posting this link.
Just because it isn't your fault doesn't mean it isn't your responsibility....Josh Reid Jones

Grt2bOutdoors
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Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:30 am

MrMiyagi wrote:I haven't purchased any i-bonds this year?

Should I run to a bank and buy 5000 in paper now? How do I pay for ti...check?

Then buy another 5000 now electronically or wait till Nov? to buy it?
If you purchase before October 31st you will receive a guaranteed rate of 4.6% for the first 6 months or 2.3% for the first year - that rate currently beats any "safe" "pretty risk free" rate out there today. You can go to your local bank and purchase a paper bond there.
Open a TD account and you can purchase electronically (they will debit your bank account for the proceeds). If you are married, you can buy a paper bond in name of your wife using her TIN with you as co-owner.

If you buy in November, the rate may be significantly different.

caluchko
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Post by caluchko » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:35 am

I know people here don't seem to like Treasury Direct. But what is really the problem? Security? It seems like the site actually takes more security measures that most banks. Generally user-unfriendliess?

Now, I like paper I-bonds (mostly because they just look cool) and I have choosen to purchase them over TD. But I won't loose too much sleep if I have to purchase electronic bonds after 31 December.

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Jay69
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Post by Jay69 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:37 am

dratkinson wrote:
Scott S wrote:Well, shoot. Just when I was starting to get enthusiastic about these things. :cry:
Ditto.
Was thinking the same thing, at least was thinking it would be a good place to park the E fund.
"Out of clutter, find simplicity” Albert Einstein

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