Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

US Local Chapters, Wiki, and general Bogleheads community discussion, news, events, and announcements.
Topic Author
RobLyons
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:55 pm

Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by RobLyons » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:19 am

I found myself in a discussion with a senior coworker about savings, retirement, and investing. The more we discussed, the more I realized I was getting too detailed and "stuck in the weeds" for their liking, as I was discussing the many options, lazy 3 fund portfolio, ETFs vs admiral shares, and what % is recommended for international, stocks vs bonds, etc.

Needless to say, a follow up conversation must be had.

So have you had discussions with others about BH philosophy and if so, how have they gone? Good, bad, or were they indifferent?

I often mention this website but I don't think most people are motivated enough to follow through, although it's still worth a try !
"Great parenting sets the foundation for a better world"

User avatar
bengal22
Posts: 1848
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:20 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by bengal22 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:22 am

Discuss during adult stand at the pool.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

bloom2708
Posts: 6968
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:08 pm
Location: Fargo, ND

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by bloom2708 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:25 am

*Removed*
Last edited by bloom2708 on Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:56 am, edited 5 times in total.
"People want confirmation, not advice" Unknown | "We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you" Unknown | Four words. Whole food, plant based. Bing it.

smitcat
Posts: 4353
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by smitcat » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:26 am

I have referred others to this website as well as other websites for various reasons.
There is hardly any upside for discussing finances, politics and religion with most anyone other than persons held very close.
Discussing finances with folks at the place you work is almost always a poor direction.

mak1277
Posts: 1178
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:26 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by mak1277 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:30 am

My nephew asked me about investing in index funds and we had a brief discussion about it, and I mentioned this site to him.

User avatar
Taj_Mahalo
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Taj_Mahalo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:32 am

I only talk investing with one other person, a co-worker/friend of mine. Ironically, he's the one who introduced me to Bogleheads.org but by no means does he follow the philosophy. Otherwise I tend to keep money/investing to myself and simply listen (and wince) when I hear my friends/peers openly discuss it.
Income is not wealth. Wealth is not income. Both are equally as important and either is capable of producing the other.

jyoung
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:26 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by jyoung » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:33 am

If asked I'll talk about it at a high level. There is probably just one or two people that I will get into more detail with. The rest just invest 100% into company stock, or pay someone to "do it for them," in other words no clue or interest. I've found most people's interest dies when I start talking about fees/indexing because all they want to hear about is should I buy some Nextflix or Apple stock or whatever else they talk about on TV. :oops:

livesoft
Posts: 68616
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by livesoft » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:41 am

Of course, I discuss BH philosophy with others. I also discuss politics which is even more fun. Religion is OK, too. All these make life interesting.

I don't force anything on anybody, but if they want to ask questions and learn more, they know that help friendly discussion is available. And guess what? Many come back and ask more questions.

There is no doubt that I have changed the ways some people invest that I see face-to-face.

Does that mean I grab everyone on the street and start talking finances, politics, and religion with them? Of course not.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

User avatar
Stinky
Posts: 2459
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:38 am
Location: Sweet Home Alabama

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Stinky » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:48 am

I’ve discussed Boglehead philosophy with my adult children, and gave each of them a “Boglehead Guide to Investing” book.

While cleaning my teeth, the dental hygienist talked about how she was daytrading individual stocks. I restrained my impulse to comment, because she had sharp instruments in my mouth. :)
It's a GREAT day to be alive - Travis Tritt

Thecallofduty
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:59 am

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Thecallofduty » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:49 am

Quick answer is yes. I never discuss my personal finances but am willing to discuss basics about tax deferred plans, index funds, benefits of hsa, etc.
-thecallofduty

livesoft
Posts: 68616
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by livesoft » Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:53 am

Stinky wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:48 am
While cleaning my teeth, the dental hygienist talked about how she was daytrading individual stocks. I restrained my impulse to comment, because she had sharp instruments in my mouth. :)
Since I was young when I stopped working, a teeth cleaning could raise questions about how I was able to stop working. In your situation, I could say, "I didn't do it day trading stocks like you are." That would lead to further discussion. Indeed, I've been going to the same practice for 25 years, so we all know each other pretty well and also have much to discuss.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

User avatar
Ice-9
Posts: 1449
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: Rockville, MD

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Ice-9 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:02 am

Taj_Mahalo wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:32 am
I only talk investing with one other person, a co-worker/friend of mine. Ironically, he's the one who introduced me to Bogleheads.org but by no means does he follow the philosophy. Otherwise I tend to keep money/investing to myself and simply listen (and wince) when I hear my friends/peers openly discuss it.
I have a somewhat similar situation. In my early thirties, I got the sense I wasn't paying enough attention to saving for retirement, and asked a friend who I figured was likely my most knowledgeable friend with finances for advice. He gave me a good intro to 401(k)s, Roth IRAs, avoiding loads and 12b-1 fees and super-high expense ratios. He mentioned index funds as a great investment "for people who aren't too interested in researching funds" and said I could do worse than investing in index funds at Vanguard. He clearly didn't think passive investing was the BEST way, but he felt it was an easy way.

At the time I wanted to learn more and read Rick Ferri's All About Index Funds. That led me to the Vanguard Diehard forum on Morningstar, which was the predecessor to this forum. I read more books by Boglehead authors that were recommended there, came up with a target allocation, and have basically stuck to it, making a couple tweaks early on. At one point the same friend said to me, "You know what you're doing now, why are you still in index funds?" When I started to explain why I liked the Boglehead philosophy, it started to feel like a tense political conversation with someone from the opposing political party, so I left it alone.

A few years later, this friend got a new job working for the Federal Government and, as he knew he'd be contributing to the TSP, scheduled an evening to talk with me about my strategies with index funds. I gave him a brief intro to my take on the Boglehead philosophy, this time with him receptive. Not too long after setting up his target portfolio on his new TSP account, he decided he now liked passive investing enough to move his Roth to Vanguard and set up a portfolio of index funds there. It's been several years now, and he's still there. He kids me sometimes on my allegiance to John Bogle, etc, but I know he's on the same train now. :happy

I test the waters occasionally with other friends by mentioning more basic investing topics, but the conversations don't usually go too far. It's not everyone's favorite topic and is taboo for some folks.

pdavi21
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by pdavi21 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:14 am

I discuss some parts of BH philosophy. (Most individual securities go to zero, market timing is mostly impossible, emotions get in the way of gains, etc). I also like to discuss tax loopholes, which honestly, I think is the most important subject on BH.

But mostly, I prefer to discuss what I think the market is likely to do. That's more interesting and exciting even if no action will be taken.
"We spend a great deal of time studying history, which, let's face it, is mostly the history of stupidity." -Stephen Hawking

User avatar
onthecusp
Posts: 732
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:25 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by onthecusp » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:16 am

I'll occasionally talk about the 4% rule, not as a be all end all, but as a comparison to typical expense ratios and, more pointedly, advisor AUM fees.
I share that most of my money is in low cost index funds and that I'm happy with their performance. I also participate in the individual stock discussions with bad examples from my past as well as admitting concern over my concentration in company stock and what should ideally be done about it. (Don't let it happen in the first place vs. my current plan of waiting until I retire to move it with lower tax consequences.)

That is way deeper than most co-workers want but in a small circle we get along. I think I've given them something to think about as well as the BH site recommendation. Not sure if anyone comes here. One bought the book, BH Guide to Investing, which I borrowed.

In edit, I've passed on information like the IfYouCan PDF to my kids. My son is in a target date fund at Vanguard. :sharebeer
Last edited by onthecusp on Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Raybo
Posts: 1852
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:02 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Raybo » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:23 am

I get asked by two types of people. Those who are getting older and closer to retirement age and who wonder what to do with things moving forward. There are usually people who have some retirement savings and are getting tired of working.

The second type are women who my wife offers my advice to when they ask her if she can recommend someone to talk about finances.

In the past 10 years, I've probably had very detailed discussions, using their actual numbers, with about 10 people.

Otherwise, I talk about bike touring, another topic people aren't all that eager to hear about :happy
No matter how long the hill, if you keep pedaling you'll eventually get up to the top.

letsgobobby
Posts: 12080
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 am

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by letsgobobby » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:25 am

Deleted
Last edited by letsgobobby on Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Broken Man 1999
Posts: 3484
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:31 am

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Broken Man 1999 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:30 am

Honestly, I think discussing how I invest with anyone else is a colossal waste of my time and their time. This is strictly through my experiences attempting to show others an alternative.

I attempted to help my siblings with their inheritance, and instead they went to my sister's bank and bought high expense load funds. Then, during the 2008 decline they sold out at the bottom. Poof went their inheritance. :oops:

Others were too lazy to read about the idea of passive investing, low expenses, and index funds. So, I no longer waste my time, or their time on such a low(no) yield activity.

I have little zeal to make converts. I am usually around retirees, and all of them have their dedicated financial guy or gal. At least one gets a nice real evergreen Christmas wreath each year. But DW is crafty, she has made door wreaths for us for just about any holiday/season imaginable. And if she gets tired of one, she sells it and makes another.

You would think selling the idea of passive, low expense investing would be a snap. But the investment companies have done a better job through their vast advertising budgets to convince investors that they need a professional. And, as strong as Mr Bogle's (and select others) advocacy might have been through the years, unfortunately their message is overwhelmed by the investment companies. The investment companies have megaphones fueled by large advertising budgets to drown out other messages.

Over time the passive investors will become more numerous, maybe. I say maybe because it is possible the next major decline will panic those who have never experienced such a decline, and drive them right into the open arms of the active managers. I do hope my pessimistic outlook is not realized.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven than I shall not go. " -Mark Twain

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 14269
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by White Coat Investor » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:33 am

RobLyons wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:19 am
I found myself in a discussion with a senior coworker about savings, retirement, and investing. The more we discussed, the more I realized I was getting too detailed and "stuck in the weeds" for their liking, as I was discussing the many options, lazy 3 fund portfolio, ETFs vs admiral shares, and what % is recommended for international, stocks vs bonds, etc.

Needless to say, a follow up conversation must be had.

So have you had discussions with others about BH philosophy and if so, how have they gone? Good, bad, or were they indifferent?

I often mention this website but I don't think most people are motivated enough to follow through, although it's still worth a try !
When the student is ready the teacher will appear. It is a well known teaching technique to adjust the message to the student. Assume those you talk to know VERY little. I once gave an hour long talk to a bunch of docs. At the end one of the faculty members said "you should have told them not to rack up credit card debt" and I thought "I had to say that?"
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

RadAudit
Posts: 3613
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 10:20 am
Location: Second star on the right and straight on 'til morning

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by RadAudit » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:34 am

Once a year, around the new year, I send the kids an update on my portfolio AA, performance (not all that good last year), and a copy of the BH philosophy. Haven't heard a peep out of them.

And, DW doesn't care, either.
Last edited by RadAudit on Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The cavalry isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

delamer
Posts: 9324
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by delamer » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:35 am

Stinky wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:48 am
I’ve discussed Boglehead philosophy with my adult children, and gave each of them a “Boglehead Guide to Investing” book.

While cleaning my teeth, the dental hygienist talked about how she was daytrading individual stocks. I restrained my impulse to comment, because she had sharp instruments in my mouth. :)
Hah!

Anyone who knows me well knows that I spend some time most days in this forum.

A few people have asked me for information/advice. I’ve seen very little follow through. It is certainly true that some people only want to hear what I have to say if it confirms what they are already doing.

I have one good friend who says she just isn’t interested in investing. Fortunately, most if her non-cash savings is in the federal TSP. So even if her selections aren’t optimal at least she isn’t being ripped off.
Last edited by delamer on Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

ohai
Posts: 1149
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:10 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by ohai » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:38 am

To answer the question, yes, of course I will discuss it, especially since I am in a field where everyone is obsessed with money. I don't like being preachy about it though. If people are doing other things, that's up to them.

livesoft
Posts: 68616
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by livesoft » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:38 am

letsgobobby wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:25 am
A colleague of mine recently told me he had a new investing strategy. He would sell all his mutual funds. He would research individual stocks and find “winners.” He would invest all his money in about three, no more than five stocks. Because why invest in the losers? Most of the stock market’s gains come from a very small number of stocks, so why not just invest in those? He mentioned some YouTube guru’s name.

:oops:

Didn’t say a word. What can you say, really?
One way to help them out is to ask them to keep you informed of their progress. That way, they should not be able to avoid reality.

Generally, when someone tells you about their investing strategy they are looking for confirmation that they are doing the right thing. Indeed, if a person on this forum tells others about their investing strategy, they themselves are looking for confirmation that they are doing the right thing, aren't they?
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

Texanbybirth
Posts: 1232
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:07 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Texanbybirth » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:51 am

livesoft wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:41 am
Of course, I discuss BH philosophy with others. I also discuss politics which is even more fun. Religion is OK, too. All these make life interesting.

I don't force anything on anybody, but if they want to ask questions and learn more, they know that help friendly discussion is available. And guess what? Many come back and ask more questions.

There is no doubt that I have changed the ways some people invest that I see face-to-face.

Does that mean I grab everyone on the street and start talking finances, politics, and religion with them? Of course not.
Exactly. +1

Though I'm fairly certain I'm younger than livesoft and probably haven't changed quite as many lives. :wink:
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, | Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. | None has ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the master: | His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster.

letsgobobby
Posts: 12080
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 am

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by letsgobobby » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:53 am

Deleted
Last edited by letsgobobby on Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

michaeljc70
Posts: 5799
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:54 am

Not really as a whole. If it comes up or someone asks, I emphasize saving over spending. If someone asks, I'd suggest a 3 fund or target or Life cycle fund (index funds) over individual stocks or a slew of managed mutual funds. If someone is worried about the market, I tell them to stay the course.

I don't think it is an area to be pushy. My father told me he was investing in all these Sector index funds. They are low cost, but he put money in like 15 of them. I tried to explain he was essentially buying the whole market and could buy one fund, but he said he felt better if the money was spread out so I left it at that.

Coltrane75
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:32 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Coltrane75 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:54 am

I no longer discuss it much with people anymore.

I used to discuss it a lot with a cousin that I grew up with. He is part of my extended family that loves talking about money. I figured he would be interested; which he was but only from the stand point that he wanted someone to tell him what to do.

So I started helping him with his 401k a bit. I told him to get into index funds. I used the typical approach which was US/Intl and bonds.

Two incidents made me stop discussing anymore; he was a bit taken aback when I mentioned the size of my nest egg and the other was when he seemed upset that an emerging markets index fund was doing bad.

I never brought any of this up anymore to him as I realized he doesn't have any understanding of the philosophy of boggleheads and indexing. If he approaches me again about this; I'm just going to point him to this website.

So I just keep to myself now. I'm not sure I can articulate what the problem is but I think I'm learning that most people just don't have the will/ability to do heavy lifting involved in learning alot of things. They'd rather just someone give them an answer.

I've also expereienced that people often discuss things like what they do with their money, not to learn together, but to just get validation.

smitcat
Posts: 4353
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by smitcat » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:07 pm

RobLyons wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:19 am
I found myself in a discussion with a senior coworker about savings, retirement, and investing. The more we discussed, the more I realized I was getting too detailed and "stuck in the weeds" for their liking, as I was discussing the many options, lazy 3 fund portfolio, ETFs vs admiral shares, and what % is recommended for international, stocks vs bonds, etc.

Needless to say, a follow up conversation must be had.

So have you had discussions with others about BH philosophy and if so, how have they gone? Good, bad, or were they indifferent?

I often mention this website but I don't think most people are motivated enough to follow through, although it's still worth a try !
I will elaborate a bit on my previous post on this subject since you are in discussions with a senior coworker - (I take senior to mean company rank).
You also stated that you are already in detailed discussions.
Please take this for what it is worth:
- I suggest you not speak in any detail about your company financial plans or options
- Nor would I hand out printed information as another post suggests on this site
- Check your companies policies prior to entering into these discussions
- I would not 'help' someone resolve an investing strategy or a financial transaction while at work or on work time or utilizing a work device
- As a 'favor' I would not be a party to assist in any offers of investments, loans and/or financial decisions

Dependent upon what your specific job is and that of the folks which you are speaking with you could be seperated from a company for performing some of these items.

Dottie57
Posts: 7154
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm
Location: Earth Northern Hemisphere

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Dottie57 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:31 pm

Many of my friends have pensions. They contributed 10% of paycheck to the pension. Only one has contributed to another fund. I don’t talk amounts since one mentioned 1m as a “god awful amount” to have in retirement.

I have a local Boglehead group where discussions can be had.

User avatar
aspirit
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:52 am
Location: SMA.SFL

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by aspirit » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:55 pm

Why must you have a follow up conversation, ego? Most others avoid harsh truths like plagues . Good luck!
Time & tides wait for no one. A man has to know his limitations. | "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" | — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild ~

Day9
Posts: 820
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:22 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Day9 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:51 pm

I think the comparisons to politics or religion are apt but for something less controversial but still accurate you can compare it to diet and exercise.

For both Boglehead investing and healthy eating habits, unsolicited advice to coworkers or acquaintances can be taken the wrong way.

For both you have to avoid overloading the listener with too much detail. It might be more effective to just tell them to save 15% and avoid racking up credit card debt, and for fitness to tell them to exercise 3 times a week, and avoid sugary drinks. In both cases many listeners will fail to heed your advice.

There is a stereotype of a preachy vegan who makes their listeners feel like they are being looked down on. I don't want to be this way about investing.
I'm just a fan of the person I got my user name from

stimulacra
Posts: 634
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:50 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by stimulacra » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:12 pm

With people that initiate the discussion regarding investing and/or retirement? Yes.

Typically I'll just mention Vanguard 3-fund portfolio, suggest bogleheads as a website and resource, and recommend they watch PBS Frontline “The Retirement Gamble” and then stop talking until they come back for more. With the Frontline episode alone, I've convinced at least 3 folks to switch over to Vanguard, Jack Bogle was the only industry expert on camera advocating for the small investor in plain English.

For millennials, they seem really into the FIRE subculture so will chat with them about Mr. Money Mustache and maybe recommend a couple of threads I follow on Reddit related to that.

For whatever it is worth, bogleheads as a forum or message board, has very low traction with the women I've met who are interested in learning more about investing and retirement. They view it as a boy's club of sorts, after checking it out. Reddit seems a bit more accessible to them, Youtube and specific books even more so.

Every things free
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:28 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Every things free » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:57 pm

I'd like to share the BH philosophy and help if I can. But, as others have posted, I need to be very discerning sharing my thoughts.
You know when you are rich. You can buy anything you want but want nothing.

bloom2708
Posts: 6968
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:08 pm
Location: Fargo, ND

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by bloom2708 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:01 pm

stimulacra wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:12 pm
For whatever it is worth, bogleheads as a forum or message board, has very low traction with the women I've met who are interested in learning more about investing and retirement. They view it as a boy's club of sorts, after checking it out. Reddit seems a bit more accessible to them, Youtube and specific books even more so.
This is interesting. How is one deducing (based on usernames) who is male or female? I guess some are more obvious than others.

I've received great advice from many people and never cared or tried to discover the dividing line on sex. :?

Maybe the blue hues are too masculine. :wink:
"People want confirmation, not advice" Unknown | "We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you" Unknown | Four words. Whole food, plant based. Bing it.

stimulacra
Posts: 634
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:50 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by stimulacra » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:44 pm

bloom2708 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:01 pm
stimulacra wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:12 pm
For whatever it is worth, bogleheads as a forum or message board, has very low traction with the women I've met who are interested in learning more about investing and retirement. They view it as a boy's club of sorts, after checking it out. Reddit seems a bit more accessible to them, Youtube and specific books even more so.
This is interesting. How is one deducing (based on usernames) who is male or female? I guess some are more obvious than others.

I've received great advice from many people and never cared or tried to discover the dividing line on sex. :?

Maybe the blue hues are too masculine. :wink:

This is purely based on people I've referred to the site explicitly that I've followed up with. Completely anecdotal and rife with sampling errors.

Also the three local Bogleheads meet up I've been to have been 100% men.

nick evets
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:40 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by nick evets » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:49 pm

I am friends, or a family relation through marriage, in some cases, with about eight people I'd consider financially rich. These are acquaintances I'm close enough to, to discuss money and investing, at least casually.

In perhaps 50% of the cases, someone else, or a firm, manages the person's money. In the remaining cases, the individuals manage it themselves; in some cases quite actively, acting on 'tips', etc. I may have mentioned BH, or Jack Bogle, and been met with zero interest, and really -- why would they have any?

It's truly a case of staying in one's own lane. Unless you're the most successful person you know. :)

User avatar
bottlecap
Posts: 6235
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by bottlecap » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:02 pm

When the topic of investing comes up, I usually just say I invest in a portfolio of diversified index funds because all the credible research in the area suggests that 1) a fund's past does not portend its future, 2) that very few managed funds beat their index benchmark after fees, and 3) that there is no reliable way to pick the ones that do in advance.

Occasionally this leads to deeper conversation, but usually not.

JT

User avatar
Spinola
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:32 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Spinola » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:11 pm

Only with immediate family and one or two friends. Most people are just not interested. I got tired of the feigned interest and they are usually more focused on making their $500 car payment this month, or buying that $1k iPhone. :oops:

SGM
Posts: 3050
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:46 am

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by SGM » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:03 pm

I attend when I can two local BH groups. My adult children and my brother have benefited from conversations about the BH philosophy. I ran into a couple of former colleagues and discussed low cost investing and Roth conversions. They are both older than me and still working and one of them seemed desperate for information. I expect to see them both next week. We will see what will happen.

I have helped several people who were delaying SS until 70 and were unaware of the spousal benefit. I informed them about 4 years ago and they were able to collect a spousal benefit for several years.

averagedude
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 3:41 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by averagedude » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:10 pm

Most people are uninterested. When i tell them that everyone should save at least 10% of their income, they think it is dumb and they say "you only live once."

User avatar
wander
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:10 am

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by wander » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:41 pm

No. Once my brother-in-law asked me to help him investing but my spouse warned me not to do so. The fear was: if things go well, it's his gain; if things go South, we could be blamed.

User avatar
segfault
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:51 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by segfault » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:49 pm

I’ve explained to a coworker on a couple of occasions that I use mostly target date funds and their response is always “well, you’re young.” Obviously, when I get old, I need to bet the farm on one or two individual stocks!

WildBill
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:47 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by WildBill » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:58 pm

Howdy

From time to time I practice on my wife.

Time to when her eyes roll back in her head - Mean time over multiple trials is about 30 seconds.

She is way too smart to listen to me for very long. :D

Happy sharing

W B
"Through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way." Virgil, The Aeneid

evofxdwg
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:02 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by evofxdwg » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:03 pm

If anyone asks. But I try not to give any specific recommendations on their situation. I did once give a coworker some specific advice on 401K allocations before the 2008 meltdown, and I think I got blamed for their losses when they sold out at the bottom!

Sometimes someone asks on another hobby forum I frequent. Then I will say to maximize tax-advantaged savings in low fee index funds, and point out the Bogleheads forum and the wiki. Some of these are obviously people with zero investing knowledge. But there are some other Boglehead types over there too, as once in a while, others give out the same philosophy.

I agree with some other posters here. Its the nature of some people to NEVER take a DIY approach, whether it be changing the oil in your car, repairing an electrical outlet, putting up wallpaper, or planning and investing for retirement. It is not worth my time for some folks. And some have been my own relatives too.

I have one acquaintance who is some kind of salesperson or investment counselor for a major life insurance company. A few years ago when he found out I was a couple years from retirement, he tried several times to recruit me as a customer. I told him multiple times I have a plan and even mentioned Vanguard and that Bogleheads.org was a good information source. He acted like he didn't know who Vanguard was. :oops: I heard recently he was having financial problems and had lost his house. :confused

miamivice
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:46 am

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by miamivice » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:25 pm

Yes. I love to argue with coworkers and relatives who are choosing not to save for college, so I can try to convince them that they would do much better with a 529. They enjoy hearing about how much I have saved and how much I will not have to pay in federal income taxes. Naturally, they discuss their income, assets, and retirement strategy with me in return. We all get along great.

:oops:

KlangFool
Posts: 14153
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by KlangFool » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:37 pm

Folks,

Many of my peers are "House Poor". It is too late to save any one of them. So, why bother?

KlangFool

Topic Author
RobLyons
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:55 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by RobLyons » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:20 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:25 am
A few weeks ago at work we had a 1 day training session. I am in Finance/Accounting.

They wanted some 30 minute "non-work" topics for a change of pace. I did a short investing session. High level stuff.

I covered the impact of fees, gave them a handout of the 10 Boglehead principles and the website URL. No deep diving.

I used our work 401k and pointed out some funds with very low expense ratios and a few stinkers with 1.7% expense ratios to avoid. Talked about Pre-tax 401k + Roth IRA. A scenario that shows the difference if you invest in the .02% expense ratio fund vs the 1.7% expense ratio fund over 30 years is usually quite eye opening. We have a generous (generous) company match. I used the example where I max pre-tax 401k to get the full company match. One person put it in the .02% fund, the next chose a .5% fund and the 3rd picked the 1.7% expense ratio fund. The first person came out with ~$500k more after 30 years. Anyone want $500k more in retirement? Just by knowing the expense ratios on your funds. It went over pretty good.

Give them a few seeds and see what they plant. Most seeds are scattered on the rocky soil. A few will land in good soil and grow. :wink:

My session was the highest rated of the day long event. As much as feedback/ratings matter. :wink:


Excellent! Sounds like you made a huge impact
"Great parenting sets the foundation for a better world"

Topic Author
RobLyons
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:55 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by RobLyons » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:22 am

smitcat wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:26 am
I have referred others to this website as well as other websites for various reasons.
There is hardly any upside for discussing finances, politics and religion with most anyone other than persons held very close.
Discussing finances with folks at the place you work is almost always a poor direction.

True. Religion and politics are off limits for me, and honestly I hold zero interest in either.

Personal finance is discussed only if another person brings it up and asks my opinion. Otherwise I'm just chugging along minding my own business! :happy
"Great parenting sets the foundation for a better world"

smitcat
Posts: 4353
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:51 am

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by smitcat » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:27 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:25 am
A few weeks ago at work we had a 1 day training session. I am in Finance/Accounting.

They wanted some 30 minute "non-work" topics for a change of pace. I did a short investing session. High level stuff.

I covered the impact of fees, gave them a handout of the 10 Boglehead principles and the website URL. No deep diving.

I used our work 401k and pointed out some funds with very low expense ratios and a few stinkers with 1.7% expense ratios to avoid. Talked about Pre-tax 401k + Roth IRA. A scenario that shows the difference if you invest in the .02% expense ratio fund vs the 1.7% expense ratio fund over 30 years is usually quite eye opening. We have a generous (generous) company match. I used the example where I max pre-tax 401k to get the full company match. One person put it in the .02% fund, the next chose a .5% fund and the 3rd picked the 1.7% expense ratio fund. The first person came out with ~$500k more after 30 years. Anyone want $500k more in retirement? Just by knowing the expense ratios on your funds. It went over pretty good.

Give them a few seeds and see what they plant. Most seeds are scattered on the rocky soil. A few will land in good soil and grow. :wink:

My session was the highest rated of the day long event. As much as feedback/ratings matter. :wink:
Does your companies 401K plan provider do educational meetings, do they provide printed materials, do they have an answer period and/or hotline?

Topic Author
RobLyons
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:55 pm

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by RobLyons » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:29 am

White Coat Investor wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:33 am
RobLyons wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:19 am
I found myself in a discussion with a senior coworker about savings, retirement, and investing. The more we discussed, the more I realized I was getting too detailed and "stuck in the weeds" for their liking, as I was discussing the many options, lazy 3 fund portfolio, ETFs vs admiral shares, and what % is recommended for international, stocks vs bonds, etc.

Needless to say, a follow up conversation must be had.

So have you had discussions with others about BH philosophy and if so, how have they gone? Good, bad, or were they indifferent?

I often mention this website but I don't think most people are motivated enough to follow through, although it's still worth a try !
When the student is ready the teacher will appear. It is a well known teaching technique to adjust the message to the student. Assume those you talk to know VERY little. I once gave an hour long talk to a bunch of docs. At the end one of the faculty members said "you should have told them not to rack up credit card debt" and I thought "I had to say that?"

I had a similar experience. My audience had no intention of opening a Roth IRA or other account and just wanted to know if XXX per week into the 403b was good. :oops:
"Great parenting sets the foundation for a better world"

Grt2bOutdoors
Posts: 21494
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: New York

Re: Do you discuss BH philosophy with others?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:40 am

Dottie57 wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:31 pm
Many of my friends have pensions. They contributed 10% of paycheck to the pension. Only one has contributed to another fund. I don’t talk amounts since one mentioned 1m as a “god awful amount” to have in retirement.

I have a local Boglehead group where discussions can be had.
Ask them if they think $40,000 is a god awful amount to live on in retirement. It’s like the analogy of “Today the Dow Jones Industrial Average went down 200 points - people get nervous at news like that (my retirement fund is going up in smoke) but if you told them it went down 0.001%, they’d be fine with that.”
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

Post Reply