Too much Bogleheads.org?

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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:16 pm

If enough is good, too much must be better.
PJW

GoldenFinch
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by GoldenFinch » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:53 pm

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:16 pm
If enough is good, too much must be better.
PJW
I think this sentence pretty much sums it up.

2cents2
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by 2cents2 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:43 am

Iowa David wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:19 pm
For those that have been on site site for more than a year, do you think this is "normal" for folks who are just getting started and does this subside once you've reached a point where your budget, lifestyle and investing habits have stabilized? Or, once you've "seen the light" do you stay hyper-focused on all things financial?
I think this is normal. The quality of information found here is top notch. I enjoy reading about topics that I don't know much about. There are so many contributors that I feel are like rock stars when it comes to the depth of knowledge they have on a particular subject. There are several areas that I have learned a lot from reading discussions on this board.

One area in which I have learned a lot is taxes. I now keep an excel spread sheet throughout the year that tracks taxable events and I compare my results with what turbo tax comes up with at tax time. This has helped me a lot in terms of tax planning. It has also given me more confidence. It has resulted in spin off spread sheets such as the one where I have calculated planned Roth conversions for the next few years.

I also did a spreadsheet in accordance with the "Asking a Portfolio Question" format found here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212 After I had put all the data in my spreadsheet, I found that I could answer my own questions. :oops: I continue to update it as it serves as a good overview. It also keeps me mindful of my overall expense ratio on my portfolio (which is another thing I track on the spreadsheet).

I also did another spin off spreadsheet titled Composition and Value of Estate listing separate and jointly owned property (and life insurance) which I continue to update (I print out a copy of it in every year and put it with our estate papers).

Anyway, you may have noted a theme here (spread sheets :happy ). I think initially figuring out stuff and putting it into spread sheet form takes me a bit of time. But, maintaining takes a bit less time.

Iowa David
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by Iowa David » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:40 pm

I appreciate all of the sage input - it’s reassuring to know that folks have gone (or going) through a similar process.
Rick Ferri wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:59 am
A successful index fund investor goes through four phases:
1) Darkness - takes advice from everyone;
2) Enlightenment - realizes a market return is superior to their return;
3) Complexity - overdoing everything to find optimal;
4) Simplicity - invests in a few total market funds
I love this - thanks Rick! I think this could be woven into a getting started section.
White Coat Investor wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:04 pm
After almost a decade and a half on this site and its predecessor, I know where you're coming from.

If you're like most, you'll realize there is no benefit to being on here every day after the first year and you'll go do something else. If you're like a few of us, you'll transition to helping others rather than trying to learn yourself.
Thanks White Coat - my goal is to get to the point where I can pass it forward, but there’s still a lot to learn until then.
"Just a 1 percent difference in expenses makes an 18 percent difference in returns when compounded over 20 years." The Boglehead's Guide to Investing

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dratkinson
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by dratkinson » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:27 pm

I use to suffer from information overload and worried that I’d miss something. But I found a cure. I taught Excel to do my worrying for me.



I’ve learned that I can’t handle pure theory, I need simple action steps. If a BH theory can’t be converted into simple action steps then I can’t use it.

Example. What does the federal funds rate and an inverse yield curve signal about my equity allocation? Or the direction of the market? Or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? <crickets>

Bottom line. To stop information overload and worrying:
--With no simple action steps, then I ignore issues of pure theory.
--With simple action steps, then I code a test (or marco) into Excel to check for the condition.

Throw in a little Excel (1) conditional formatting to draw my attention to conditions that need my action (AA rebalance needed, TLH opportunity, RBD determination---eventually figured it out :) ,…), and (2) its required simple action step as notes in cell comments to remind me of my necessary actions for each condition,… and I stopped worrying that I’d miss something.



Today, I may spend 5 minutes downloading new price data, but Excel double-checks everything I need to do/remember from 1 Jan to 31 Dec.



Now with more time and much less to worry about, I’ve even found it interesting to read books about history---investing and other, never liked history in HS---and work on home projects.
d.r.a, not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.

MJW
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by MJW » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:56 pm

*shrug*

It's something to do.

I just do my best to separate my interest in learning about investing and my practice of it. The former is the hobby while the latter is a means to an end....if that makes sense.

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House Blend
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by House Blend » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:10 pm

GoldenFinch wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:53 pm
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:16 pm
If enough is good, too much must be better.
PJW
I think this sentence pretty much sums it up.
"Too much ain't enough." --Tom Petty.

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dodecahedron
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by dodecahedron » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:44 pm

steve roy wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:10 pm
I’m reading “Pride and Prejudice “. Nice counter-balance to Bogleheads.org.
It's a different book (Sense & Sensibility rather than Pride and Prejudice), but I can't help sharing a favorite Jane Austen quote on matters financial: "People always live for ever when there's an annuity to be paid them."

source: http://www.mollands.net/etexts/senseand ... /sns2.html

Image
Last edited by dodecahedron on Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:11 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:44 pm
It's a different book (Sense & Sensibility rather than Pride and Prejudice), but I can't help sharing a favorite Jane Austen quote on matters financial: "People always lives for ever when there's an annuity to be paid them."

source: http://www.mollands.net/etexts/senseand ... /sns2.html
And Voltaire once said:
I advise you to go on living solely to enrage those who are paying your annuities. It is the only pleasure I have left.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

student
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by student » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:10 pm

I think I spend at least an hour (on average) a day on this site.

Maverick3320
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by Maverick3320 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:40 am

JBTX wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:24 pm
I kind of get where you are coming from. I’ve been here not quite a year and have spent far more time here than i ever would have guessed. I am a bit obsessive about message boards and this has become my obsession vs sports or political forums in the past. At least in the process I am learning something useful.

The board has been useful in kind of getting us back on track spending wise, although we still have a ways to go.
2900+ posts in less than a year? That has to be some sort of record!

JBTX
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by JBTX » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:09 am

Maverick3320 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:40 am
JBTX wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:24 pm
I kind of get where you are coming from. I’ve been here not quite a year and have spent far more time here than i ever would have guessed. I am a bit obsessive about message boards and this has become my obsession vs sports or political forums in the past. At least in the process I am learning something useful.

The board has been useful in kind of getting us back on track spending wise, although we still have a ways to go.
2900+ posts in less than a year? That has to be some sort of record!
:sharebeer

ThriftyPhD
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by ThriftyPhD » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:09 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:04 pm
If you're like a few of us, you'll transition to helping others rather than trying to learn yourself.
See one do one teach one :beer

I've always found that the best way to make sure I understand something is to try to explain it to someone who doesn't understand it. Nothing like tutoring or teaching a class to really cement your understanding of the material. As I've read and learned here, I try to respond to threads both to pay it forward by helping someone else and to reinforce my own understanding.

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:12 pm

Perhaps a related syndrome... until recently I "peeked" way too much at my holdings. I also looked sometimes two or three times a day at my checking and credit card accounts. I can't explain the compulsion, it was just there.

Now it's not.

In fact, just the other day, I realized that DW's payday had come and gone, a day when I typically sit down and pay monthly bills. It had slipped completely by me, and further, I didn't even care. Everything is on autopilot, so why bother even looking?

It felt great.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

carofe
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by carofe » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:35 pm

oldzey wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:57 pm
Rick Ferri wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:59 am
A successful index fund investor goes through four phases:
1) Darkness - takes advice from everyone;
2) Enlightenment - realizes a market return is superior to their return;
3) Complexity - overdoing everything to find optimal;
4) Simplicity - invests in a few total market funds

Dear OP,

You’re in the complexity stage. Once you get through that, you’ll be able to disconnect for long periods and not think you’re missing something.

Rick Ferri
An excellent description of the phases, Rick!

+1
Nailed it! It was actually like that for me. I went from having lots of index funds and reading a lot about it, until I settled with two funds and left it alone :D
US Total Stock Market + Intermediate Term Bond. That's it.

RadAudit
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by RadAudit » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:43 pm

dodecahedron wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:44 pm
"People always live for ever when there's an annuity to be paid them."
So, that's why so many folks on this site recommend annuities!!! :wink:
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course.

PFInterest
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by PFInterest » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:31 pm

Iowa David wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:19 pm
I joined this site a few months back and am blown away with the amount of knowledge and support of this site.

Between this site and the recommended books I have learned a tremendous amount and have become a more savvy and attentive investor.

That being said, I find myself constantly thinking about personal finance & investing - almost to the point where I find myself being borderline obsessive. While I love being more informed and knowledgeable, I don't want to get to the point where I spend so much time thinking about this that I lose sight of the things that are most important (family, friends, new adventures & etc.)

For those that have been on site site for more than a year, do you think this is "normal" for folks who are just getting started and does this subside once you've reached a point where your budget, lifestyle and investing habits have stabilized? Or, once you've "seen the light" do you stay hyper-focused on all things financial?
yup. once you get the hang of it then its fun to pay it back.

azanon
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by azanon » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:57 am

Rick Ferri wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:59 am
A successful index fund investor goes through four phases:
1) Darkness - takes advice from everyone;
2) Enlightenment - realizes a market return is superior to their return;
3) Complexity - overdoing everything to find optimal;
4) Simplicity - invests in a few total market funds

Dear OP,

You’re in the complexity stage. Once you get through that, you’ll be able to disconnect for long periods and not think you’re missing something.

Rick Ferri
And for some, there's a 5th stage of further simplicity; Just buy one, low-cost, globally diversified balanced fund and just don't bother with it at all, including rebalancing, because that's being done for you. Probably 90% of the people I work with (not in the finance industry) would find managing a few total market funds anything but simple. Family members I've helped with this, I always ended up recommending a balanced fund, because I hardly had to fire a neuron to realize anything more than one fund would be too complex for them.

2pedals
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by 2pedals » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:27 am

Set your limits and keep track of them with something like this

Mind the time add-on

jpdion
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by jpdion » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:20 pm

"Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good." I try to keep that in mind when dealing with most decisions, big and small. I try to avoid diminishing returns on the use of my time and try to understand when I know "enough" to make a decision. I use this forum to occasionally ask a question when I am uncertain - there are many, many folks here who are knowledgeable and have experience to draw upon. Every once and a while I will comment if I think it might be useful. But, my visits here average probably 2 hours a week in total, which is okay for my interests.

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Rick Ferri
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by Rick Ferri » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:33 pm

azanon wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:57 am
Rick Ferri wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:59 am
A successful index fund investor goes through four phases:
1) Darkness - takes advice from everyone;
2) Enlightenment - realizes a market return is superior to their return;
3) Complexity - overdoing everything to find optimal;
4) Simplicity - invests in a few total market funds

Dear OP,

You’re in the complexity stage. Once you get through that, you’ll be able to disconnect for long periods and not think you’re missing something.

Rick Ferri
And for some, there's a 5th stage of further simplicity; Just buy one, low-cost, globally diversified balanced fund and just don't bother with it at all, including rebalancing, because that's being done for you. Probably 90% of the people I work with (not in the finance industry) would find managing a few total market funds anything but simple. Family members I've helped with this, I always ended up recommending a balanced fund, because I hardly had to fire a neuron to realize anything more than one fund would be too complex for them.
A low-cost globally diversified balanced fund is a strategy for simplicity and a good #4 solution. It’s not another stage. Don’t complicate things! :D

Rick Ferri
The Education of an Index Investor: starts in darkness, finds enlightenment, overcomplicates everything, embraces simplicity.

3funder
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by 3funder » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:02 pm

Iowa David wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:19 pm
I joined this site a few months back and am blown away with the amount of knowledge and support of this site.

Between this site and the recommended books I have learned a tremendous amount and have become a more savvy and attentive investor.

That being said, I find myself constantly thinking about personal finance & investing - almost to the point where I find myself being borderline obsessive. While I love being more informed and knowledgeable, I don't want to get to the point where I spend so much time thinking about this that I lose sight of the things that are most important (family, friends, new adventures & etc.)

For those that have been on site site for more than a year, do you think this is "normal" for folks who are just getting started and does this subside once you've reached a point where your budget, lifestyle and investing habits have stabilized? Or, once you've "seen the light" do you stay hyper-focused on all things financial?
Me too. I love this forum, though. For now, I'll consider it a healthy addiction; although as an English teacher I realize this might be an oxymoron.

3funder
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by 3funder » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:04 pm

BogleMelon wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:38 pm
OP, don't worry, it will get worse :twisted:
Haha

windaar
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by windaar » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:11 pm

I check in once in a while. But, “stay the course” and “set and forget” gives a liberation from checking the DOJ and even BH on a regular basis. Figure out your risk tolerance and asset allocations, and then go fishing!

Easy Rhino
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by Easy Rhino » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:24 pm

I was super duper active and thinking when I first joined. Two, actually 3, things have reduced the time I spend here.

1) Getting my portfolio and plan to a relatively set it and forget it phase.
2) Not having had a financial crisis for a while (knock wood)
3) Getting married and having a couple of kids I have to chase around all the time.

The last one was the biggest :)

protagonist
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by protagonist » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:37 pm

Iowa David wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:19 pm
I joined this site a few months back and am blown away with the amount of knowledge and support of this site.

Between this site and the recommended books I have learned a tremendous amount and have become a more savvy and attentive investor.

That being said, I find myself constantly thinking about personal finance & investing - almost to the point where I find myself being borderline obsessive. While I love being more informed and knowledgeable, I don't want to get to the point where I spend so much time thinking about this that I lose sight of the things that are most important (family, friends, new adventures & etc.)

For those that have been on site site for more than a year, do you think this is "normal" for folks who are just getting started and does this subside once you've reached a point where your budget, lifestyle and investing habits have stabilized? Or, once you've "seen the light" do you stay hyper-focused on all things financial?
Finance is way less important than family and friends.

You imply that the site is having a negative impact on your life and that you may be too obsessed. I am not one to judge. You may be getting addicted to the site, the way people get addicted to social media. I would humbly suggest that you do some soul searching, and if you feel this is the case, maybe you need to deal with it....even if it means going cold turkey.

As you have probably figured out, intelligent finance is simple, and you probably have enough info by now to proceed intelligently.

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randomizer
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by randomizer » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:44 pm

I come here too much.
75:25 AA / Expected retirement: 2097

bloom2708
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:14 am

mega317 wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:28 pm
rec7 wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:55 am
I spend 30 minutes a day on Bogleheads and enjoy it. If I felt it was a problem I would limit it to an hour.
This is a very good post.
+1

I spend time here to TRY to help others get to step 4. It is difficult at times to give advice to help people move through the stages. They have to move through the steps at their own pace. Explore the tilts, factors, high yield, dividend strategies and the like.
"We are here not to please but to provoke thoughtfulness" Unknown Boglehead

JBTX
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by JBTX » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:41 am

protagonist wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:37 pm
Iowa David wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:19 pm
I joined this site a few months back and am blown away with the amount of knowledge and support of this site.

Between this site and the recommended books I have learned a tremendous amount and have become a more savvy and attentive investor.

That being said, I find myself constantly thinking about personal finance & investing - almost to the point where I find myself being borderline obsessive. While I love being more informed and knowledgeable, I don't want to get to the point where I spend so much time thinking about this that I lose sight of the things that are most important (family, friends, new adventures & etc.)

For those that have been on site site for more than a year, do you think this is "normal" for folks who are just getting started and does this subside once you've reached a point where your budget, lifestyle and investing habits have stabilized? Or, once you've "seen the light" do you stay hyper-focused on all things financial?
Finance is way less important than family and friends.

You imply that the site is having a negative impact on your life and that you may be too obsessed. I am not one to judge. You may be getting addicted to the site, the way people get addicted to social media. I would humbly suggest that you do some soul searching, and if you feel this is the case, maybe you need to deal with it....even if it means going cold turkey.

As you have probably figured out, intelligent finance is simple, and you probably have enough info by now to proceed intelligently.
I thought the OP's post and question was very insightful. It doesn't seem uncommon that once you engross yourself in something, it kind of sticks with you off and on all the time. Finding balance is often easier said than done.

Message boards, like any other form of social media, can be very addicting.

I find it hard to find a balance in terms of personal spending. I've gone through periods where I have a frugal mindset, but it also causes me to be cheap. You find it annoying every time you go to Taco Bell and they ask for a $1 donation. You start nickel and diming insignificant items. Then you loosen up, and over many years you find you are freely spending and wasting money all over the place.

BogleBoogie
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Re: Too much Bogleheads.org?

Post by BogleBoogie » Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:02 pm

Rick Ferri wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:59 am
A successful index fund investor goes through four phases:
1) Darkness - takes advice from everyone;
2) Enlightenment - realizes a market return is superior to their return;
3) Complexity - overdoing everything to find optimal;
4) Simplicity - invests in a few total market funds

Dear OP,

You’re in the complexity stage. Once you get through that, you’ll be able to disconnect for long periods and not think you’re missing something.

Rick Ferri
+1 - This is a great way to break it down. I'm at 3 1/2 right now. I, like you, spent a lot of time on this site trying to consume all the information I could. The more I've learned, the more I've realized there is really less for me to do. If anything, I've gone to 4 and started to slide backwards trying to "optimize" which isn't efficient. Sometimes stopping by the forum reinforces staying in 4 for and not going backwards. :sharebeer

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