A lot of heavy hitters this morning

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BamaGuy22
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by BamaGuy22 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:00 pm

davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:17 pm
Don’t feel demoralized. Look at it this way - if husband and wife work for even just 20 years and just save normally, they would save

Husband 401(k) = 18,500
Husband match = 6,000
Wife 401(k) = 18,500
Wife match = 6,000
2x Backdoor Roth = 11,000
529 = 6,000 (say only $500 per month)
HSA = 6,900

Total = $73,000

Save for 20 years = $1.4M without any appreciation. As you can see it’s very doable. Throw in some market appreciation and you should easily cross $2.5-$3M. Not exactly bill gates style rich but enough for FI in 20 years for most of us.
Yep. So simple. just save 73K per year for 20+ years. Easy Peasy. :shock:

Silk McCue
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Silk McCue » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:01 pm

Afty wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:16 pm
[
There are also the cases where people get accused of outright lying or trolling.
I called out a VERY likely insurance troll on a Whole Life post yesterday. They created an account at 1:55pm yesterday and posted a very long diatribe on why Whole Life was good as an investment at 2:56pm on a post from another individual seeking honest advice. They then went along there merry way.

I did alllow for the possibility that they weren’t in case I was wrong. If you don’t read my linked post below please don’t reply.

I also saw someone accuse a poster on a separate post of being an insurance troll. They were clearly not in my opinion and the poster gave them “ what for”.

Let’s be careful out there.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=245318&p=3850061#p3850788

Cheers

basspond
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by basspond » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:02 pm

Went to the store today and my favorite candy was on sale because they had too many of the Easter candy colors. Saved $15 and it should last most of the year. Don’t think that money just falls into most people’s laps. It is amazing the dollars you can save every day by being vigilant. And in the end that will be more than enough to cover a 6+ digit windfall if you never receive one!

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Sandtrap
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Sandtrap » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:02 pm

The tremendous value of the forum is that suggestions and advice, as well as mutual encouragement, "generally" comes from folks that have "walked the talk". :D

Not book learned theory or spreadsheet desk jockeys. But, those who have accumulated wealth $1 at a time through work and savings -- diligence, perseverance, and patience -- real life in the real world.

As it generally "takes one to know one", those that do not "walk the talk" are quickly "vetted". :shock:

In the context, in general, "Bogleheads are all "heavy hitters" regardless of net worth. . . or substantial net worth . . . or stratospheric net worth. 8-)

Again, in each area of expertise and real life experience, the "Bogleheads" are all "heavy hitters". :D

aloha
j :D

jminv
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by jminv » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm

Silk McCue wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:01 pm
Afty wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:16 pm
[
There are also the cases where people get accused of outright lying or trolling.
I called out a VERY likely insurance troll on a Whole Life post yesterday. They created an account at 1:55pm yesterday and posted a very long diatribe on why Whole Life was good as an investment at 2:56pm on a post from another individual seeking honest advice. They then went along there merry way.

I did alllow for the possibility that they weren’t in case I was wrong. If you don’t read my linked post below please don’t reply.

I also saw someone accuse a poster on a separate post of being an insurance troll. They were clearly not in my opinion and the poster gave them “ what for”.

Let’s be careful out there.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=245318&p=3850061#p3850788

Cheers
I noticed the same thing with a couple structured product investment postings a couple weeks ago.

davidsorensen32
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by davidsorensen32 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm

Ok. I apologize. I did not intend to demoralize rather illustrate that you don’t need to be a doctor or a google employee to make it FI. Slow and steady savings gets you there. Lots of $100,000 jobs around. As long as husband and spouse makes $100,000 each it should be doable.
stoptothink wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:51 pm
bigred77 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:34 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:17 pm
Don’t feel demoralized. Look at it this way - if husband and wife work for even just 20 years and just save normally, they would save

Husband 401(k) = 18,500
Husband match = 6,000
Wife 401(k) = 18,500
Wife match = 6,000
2x Backdoor Roth = 11,000
529 = 6,000 (say only $500 per month)
HSA = 6,900

Total = $73,000

Save for 20 years = $1.4M without any appreciation. As you can see it’s very doable. Throw in some market appreciation and you should easily cross $2.5-$3M. Not exactly bill gates style rich but enough for FI in 20 years for most of us.
So "saving normally" means saving 124% of the median annual household income in the US?

I'll spread the word.
Exactly. That path to FIRE is possible for a very small percentage of the population; to the vast majority of the population, suggesting saving half that much per year is "very doable" would get a nice chuckle. I can deadlift 500+lbs, it is "very doable" for everybody...so why can't you? :oops:

FWIW, we do save that much (minus the 529, but it is more than overtaken by extra mortgage principle payments and cash savings), but we don't talk or act like this is remotely possible for most families. The wife and I are very aware of our good fortune.

jdb
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by jdb » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:07 pm

Silk McCue wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:01 pm
Afty wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:16 pm
[
There are also the cases where people get accused of outright lying or trolling.
I called out a VERY likely insurance troll on a Whole Life post yesterday. They created an account at 1:55pm yesterday and posted a very long diatribe on why Whole Life was good as an investment at 2:56pm on a post from another individual seeking honest advice. They then went along there merry way.

I did alllow for the possibility that they weren’t in case I was wrong. If you don’t read my linked post below please don’t reply.

I also saw someone accuse a poster on a separate post of being an insurance troll. They were clearly not in my opinion and the poster gave them “ what for”.

Let’s be careful out there.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=245318&p=3850061#p3850788

Cheers
Good work Silk McCue in calling out an apparent troll, in my opinion the bane of this site. Most often seen in disguise pushing insurance products or complex structured products and sometimes a new poster with a short position on an individual stock. Need to be vigilant. Good luck.

billy269
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by billy269 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:20 pm

mx711yam wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:29 pm
I completely agree. I tell me wife all the time how we're poor ( really we're probably the 1% for our age) and she goes off on me. But when you see how much some of these other people on here have and make, it sure does make you feel poor!

I have had to kind of limit the amount of time I have spent on this site over the last couple of years because I have noticed it has been messing with my head and making me feel not blessed for where I am due to my constant comparison with others.
Same issue here. I am not in the top 1% for my age like you are (maybe top 10%), but my money saving drives my wife nuts. I have to remember to balance out my natural inclination of wanting to save with my wife's preferences of wanting to spend a little money. She has not felt bogleheads has been a good influence on me! As will all things, mediation is key.

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celia
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by celia » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:23 pm

Jon H wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:56 am
triceratop wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:50 am
I buy all of my main articles of clothing at Goodwill (note: I still do not dress like a slob; I am likely the best dressed person in my building, though this does not say much).

Those with more modest problems tend to have more modest questions and do not stand out quite so much. There are plenty of Bogleheads of modest means.
Apparently in some areas of the country, designer label clothing and shoes are available for $5-10 a piece at Goodwill and other resale clothiers.
In some parts of the country, there are some high-end Goodwill "boutique" stores where the better merchandise goes.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-u ... story.html

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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:40 pm

This thread is now in the Local Chapters and Bogleheads Community forum (Bogleheads).

(The thread was temporarily removed for moderator review.)
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haban01
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by haban01 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:46 pm

munemaker wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:18 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:14 am
On my lunchtime walk yesterday, I found a dime in the parking lot.
I went to Aldi's and some rich person left a quarter in the cart. I could have paid it forward but I pocketed it instead.
I had that happen on Sunday. I paid it forward to a little person too :)
Eric Haban | | "Stay the Course" | "Press on Regardless" | | Wisconsin Bogleheads Chapter Coordinator

sport
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by sport » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:07 pm

davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok. I apologize. I did not intend to demoralize rather illustrate that you don’t need to be a doctor or a google employee to make it FI. Slow and steady savings gets you there. Lots of $100,000 jobs around. As long as husband and spouse makes $100,000 each it should be doable.
I respectfully suggest a dose of reality. Perhaps in San Francisco or NYC such jobs abound, but certainly not everywhere. DW and I never made anywhere near 100K, and we both have MS degrees. Yet, by starting early, being thrifty, and investing successfully, we have a very comfortable retirement. I am sure the people that know us would be most surprised to learn of our net worth.

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G12
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by G12 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:11 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:32 am
fittan wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:11 am
Love this board but can't help to feel disconnected this morning when the first 3 posts are something like:

1) I will be making $350K, should I save for my kid's 529?

2) Should I buy a $1.2 million condo? My inlaws just gave me $235K.

3) I got a $600K windfall...should I pay off mortgage?

Feeling a bit disconnected y'all...just saying :?
People with money tend to be interested in money and people who tend to be interested in money tend to have money. It shouldn't be surprising to discover the average Boglehead is far wealthier than the average American. Polls here have been outlawed for years now but back when they weren't, they showed that about half of Bogleheads were millionaires.

Doesn't mean there isn't useful information for low earners with a negative net worth, it's just the way it is. The good news is that it's usually a better idea to take financial advice from those with money than those without.

I actually hear a lot of people complain that they were "money-shamed" on this forum for having too much or earning too much. So it goes both ways. Best to show a lot of tolerance and understanding either way.
I don't know WCI, I have picked up on some of what the OP is writing over the last 3 or 4 years. I mean posters that joined in 2013 or so missed all the fun from 2008/2009, Plan "B", real warnings that banks and REITs were about to get smoked which they did, etc.... ;-) I still believe I may be one of the few posters that actually made some good money in PCRIX and never touched it again, thank you Larry Swedroe, I miss your contributions. Coming up on the 10 year mark when things started going bad in a big way in late May/June. In reality, maybe high earners back then were a little more restrained about posting in the manner than some have over the last 3 years or so. I do have to say some of the "can I afford this" threads are quite ridiculous or probably just trolling. Maybe it just happens during extended periods when there is little drama in the markets. High income, low income, it doesn't move me one way or another, just have a sound plan and follow through.

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dwickenh
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by dwickenh » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:13 pm

munemaker wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:18 am
Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:14 am
On my lunchtime walk yesterday, I found a dime in the parking lot.
I went to Aldi's and some rich person left a quarter in the cart. I could have paid it forward but I pocketed it instead.
Hey, Did it have Washington on it, if so, it was mine.
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett

LiterallyIronic
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by LiterallyIronic » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:15 pm

deleted
Last edited by LiterallyIronic on Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

rr2
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by rr2 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:31 pm

sport wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:07 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok. I apologize. I did not intend to demoralize rather illustrate that you don’t need to be a doctor or a google employee to make it FI. Slow and steady savings gets you there. Lots of $100,000 jobs around. As long as husband and spouse makes $100,000 each it should be doable.
I respectfully suggest a dose of reality. Perhaps in San Francisco or NYC such jobs abound, but certainly not everywhere. DW and I never made anywhere near 100K, and we both have MS degrees. Yet, by starting early, being thrifty, and investing successfully, we have a very comfortable retirement. I am sure the people that know us would be most surprised to learn of our net worth.
@ davidsorensen32 -- This post of yours did come across as very disconnected. The fraction of couples (or households) earning 200K+ is fairly small. I would venture that it is likely to be less than 5% in the US.

I do agree with your point that slow and steady can win this race. Here is n example of a situation with a couple with a joint income close to or above median values. Let's take 60K income. If this couple can manage to max a couple of IRAs + maybe a 5-10% 401k (including match) for 30+ years, they should be quite well off at retirement. A rough guess is that the accumulation will be close to $1M. Also, in this situation SS income will probably be a larger fraction of income while working. Thus SS income + savings should provide close to 100% of pre-retirement income.

drummerboy
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by drummerboy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:44 pm

Instead of comparing our wealth....

The beauty of the Bogleheads philosophy is that it is applicable to people at all levels of Net Worth. $3k, $30k, $300k, $30 million....

Doesn't matter.

Simplicity of investments. Low fees. Live below your means. Save as much as you can. Don't time the market. Time IN the market matters more.
I'm thrilled to see people on this board that have started small and ended up with a large net worth. How did they get there? Consistent strategy and execution.

All the big investment firms would lead you to believe that once you've become "high net worth" that you must add complexity and niche products to grow your portfolio. I'm glad there are people here that can confirm the strategy and are proof to refute many of the myths of investing.

MathWizard
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by MathWizard » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:57 pm

NextMil wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:31 am
No matter what your position, if you are on this board, you are probably in the 1% of Americans. Comparison is the thief of joy I hear, but there is always someone who has more, and there are definitely a lot of folks who have a lot less. Be grateful, work hard, and invest early and often.
Maybe not 1%, but likely top 5 or 10%

According to:

Code: Select all

http://wealthometer.org/US/calculator2.html
for a 2 person household, a net worth of $4.5 Million does not even quite make the top 1%.
$1.5 million puts a 2 person household in the top 5%
$800K for the top 10%
$310K for the top 20%

Krischi
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Krischi » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:59 pm

rr2 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:31 pm
@ davidsorensen32 -- This post of yours did come across as very disconnected. The fraction of couples (or households) earning 200K+ is fairly small. I would venture that it is likely to be less than 5% in the US.
Less than 7% to be exact. I think there is a significant danger of us losing sight of the fact that as a group we are quite extraordinarily fortunate to be here, with this level of financial education and successes in our careers. It always seems doable if you've been there done that, but it says nothing about whether the same thing is doable for others.

I value this forum for the advice and in depth financial education it has been providing. But make no mistake, I roll my eyes at those threads, too, that ask if retirement is possible with an income of 500k and 10M in the bank.

Iliketoridemybike
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Iliketoridemybike » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:05 pm

BamaGuy22 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:00 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:17 pm
Don’t feel demoralized. Look at it this way - if husband and wife work for even just 20 years and just save normally, they would save

Husband 401(k) = 18,500
Husband match = 6,000
Wife 401(k) = 18,500
Wife match = 6,000
2x Backdoor Roth = 11,000
529 = 6,000 (say only $500 per month)
HSA = 6,900

Total = $73,000



Save for 20 years = $1.4M without any appreciation. As you can see it’s very doable. Throw in some market appreciation and you should easily cross $2.5-$3M. Not exactly bill gates style rich but enough for FI in 20 years for most of us.
Yep. So simple. just save 73K per year for 20+ years. Easy Peasy. :shock:
I am not lying, but we actually save 2x this amount every year. Given the right income circumstances, you can save way more than imaginable.

stoptothink
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by stoptothink » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:16 pm

Iliketoridemybike wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:05 pm
BamaGuy22 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:00 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:17 pm
Don’t feel demoralized. Look at it this way - if husband and wife work for even just 20 years and just save normally, they would save

Husband 401(k) = 18,500
Husband match = 6,000
Wife 401(k) = 18,500
Wife match = 6,000
2x Backdoor Roth = 11,000
529 = 6,000 (say only $500 per month)
HSA = 6,900

Total = $73,000



Save for 20 years = $1.4M without any appreciation. As you can see it’s very doable. Throw in some market appreciation and you should easily cross $2.5-$3M. Not exactly bill gates style rich but enough for FI in 20 years for most of us.
Yep. So simple. just save 73K per year for 20+ years. Easy Peasy. :shock:
I am not lying, but we actually save 2x this amount every year. Given the right income circumstances, you can save way more than imaginable.
Good for you, we are also pretty close to that; that doesn't make the original statement any less absurd for the large majority of the population. "The right circumstances" occur for a miniscule percentage of the general population.

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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Fallible » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:27 pm

fittan wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:11 am
Love this board but can't help to feel disconnected this morning when the first 3 posts are something like:

1) I will be making $350K, should I save for my kid's 529?

2) Should I buy a $1.2 million condo? My inlaws just gave me $235K.

3) I got a $600K windfall...should I pay off mortgage?

Feeling a bit disconnected y'all...just saying :?
No reason to feel disconnected; in fact, you should feel just the opposite. As Charles Kindleberger wrote in his book Manias, Panics, and Crashes, "There is nothing so disturbing to one's well-being and judgment as to see a friend get rich."

And judging from this thread and some others, it doesn't even have to be a friend; just another fellow human being getting rich will do and that's the connection.
Bogleheads® wiki | Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle

BamaGuy22
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by BamaGuy22 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:56 pm

Iliketoridemybike wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:05 pm
BamaGuy22 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:00 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:17 pm
Don’t feel demoralized. Look at it this way - if husband and wife work for even just 20 years and just save normally, they would save

Husband 401(k) = 18,500
Husband match = 6,000
Wife 401(k) = 18,500
Wife match = 6,000
2x Backdoor Roth = 11,000
529 = 6,000 (say only $500 per month)
HSA = 6,900

Total = $73,000



Save for 20 years = $1.4M without any appreciation. As you can see it’s very doable. Throw in some market appreciation and you should easily cross $2.5-$3M. Not exactly bill gates style rich but enough for FI in 20 years for most of us.
Yep. So simple. just save 73K per year for 20+ years. Easy Peasy. :shock:
I am not lying, but we actually save 2x this amount every year. Given the right income circumstances, you can save way more than imaginable.
Good for you. Of course there are people that save that much and more. But the percentage is tiny, so to describe saving that much for 20+ years as “normal savings” like he doesn’t understand why everyone doesn’t do it is a bit absurd and out of touch.

denovo
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by denovo » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:05 pm

davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok. I apologize. I did not intend to demoralize rather illustrate that you don’t need to be a doctor or a google employee to make it FI. Slow and steady savings gets you there. Lots of $100,000 jobs around. As long as husband and spouse makes $100,000 each it should be doable.

Only 5 percent of households in the U.S. make more than 200k a year. Jeez.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

harvestbook
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by harvestbook » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:08 pm

No matter how high or low we go, we all end up at zero.
I'm not smart enough to know, and I can't afford to guess.

davidsorensen32
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by davidsorensen32 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:22 pm

denovo wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:05 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok. I apologize. I did not intend to demoralize rather illustrate that you don’t need to be a doctor or a google employee to make it FI. Slow and steady savings gets you there. Lots of $100,000 jobs around. As long as husband and spouse makes $100,000 each it should be doable.

Only 5 percent of households in the U.S. make more than 200k a year. Jeez.
There are 11-12M millionaires in the USA. With average household size of 3-4 that’s 33-48M American households. Which is 10% - 16% of the population. How did they get there if not by earning big saving big or inheritance ????
Last edited by davidsorensen32 on Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sschullo
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by sschullo » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:23 pm

I learned a long time ago not to compare. There are highly elite talented people everywhere and then there is just me, an uncomplicated farm kid who did pretty good in the big city starting with nothing and with no talents for anything. I was very shy and afraid of my own shadow as a young man. Not good in a competitive capitalistic culture. Yet, just like Mr. Money Muscheche, I feel like I have done what I wanted and yet did not have to work every minute of the day to make money. I married well and made enough in a profession that I loved (public school teaching) and to experience things and do activities that helped others, and even to do so I had to pay for some of that additional fulfilling experience. I loved every minute.

I have learned that no matter what the level of income or wealth, people suffer in their own way. Yeah, it's a little easier to suffer when one doesn't have money worries, however, just about everybody here knows that material things alone don't bring everlasting happiness. Sure a new car or new TV is exciting for about a week or so, but that's about it. I love learning new things such as ballroom dancing, writing another book, Buddhism and working on a new romantic relationship.

I think about the fact that I am alive at 70 and wrote two books about personal finance and that I am a millionaire twice over. Yet, I was wounded in Nam, survived cancer, never made much money, actually, do not like investing, build wealth slowly over a lifetime (in this day and age, that is very old fashion) and had the most shocking and devastating loss of a 40-year relationship just 2.5 years ago.

Yet, I am happy I found new love and that I can manage my money without an adviser. That is a true skill that so many of our friends and relatives just don't get. Always think about what you have rather than what you don't have, because those things are probably not for you anyway. We have a karma, accept it and your life will always be fullfilling.
Public School K-12 Educators: "Ask NOT what your annuity sales person can do for you, ask what you can do to be a Do-It-Yourselfer (DIY)."

NextMil
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by NextMil » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:48 pm

davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:22 pm
denovo wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:05 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok. I apologize. I did not intend to demoralize rather illustrate that you don’t need to be a doctor or a google employee to make it FI. Slow and steady savings gets you there. Lots of $100,000 jobs around. As long as husband and spouse makes $100,000 each it should be doable.

Only 5 percent of households in the U.S. make more than 200k a year. Jeez.
There are 11-12M millionaires in the USA. With average household size of 3 that’s 33-36M American households. Which is 10% of the population. How did they get there if not by earning big saving big or inheritance ????
Don’t let the internet police make you feel bad. It’s sad that you were trying to be helpful and got beat up for it.

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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Silk McCue » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:02 pm

NextMil wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:48 pm
Don’t let the internet police make you feel bad. It’s sad that you were trying to be helpful and got beat up for it.
+1

I was growing tired of him being beaten up repeatedly. This isn’t Facebook.

SGM
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by SGM » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:26 pm

An incredible amount of clothes are donated and never worn or are practically brand new. As my wife is a very active volunteer at a charity shop in an upscale neighborhood, she sees a lot of very good clothes. They cannot charge much for clothes because people change the tags. Thievery is their greatest loss. The other volunteers are always on the look out for clothes for my young adult children. They are also on the lookout for clothes for me as I can only wear tall sizes.

When I took my son to the state taxation office, I was embarrassed by the rich quality of his clothes including a brand new cashmere coat that cost him $5 or $10. I felt that he was too stylish and richly dressed for a state office where everyone else was trying to look poor.

There is also a window in a nearby dry cleaner that DW stocks weekly with donated items. Some people will never allow themselves to be seen in a charity shop, but will happily buy items from a dry cleaner window. The charity shop is in one of the wealthiest towns in the U.S. so people have to keep up a certain façade.

heyyou
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by heyyou » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:27 pm

A lot of heavy hitters this morning
Don't know, and don't care. Just feeling grateful for what I have learned here while ignoring the equivalent of noise from some posters. Seems like every garden has some kind of pests in it.

jminv
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by jminv » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:05 pm

davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:22 pm
denovo wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:05 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok. I apologize. I did not intend to demoralize rather illustrate that you don’t need to be a doctor or a google employee to make it FI. Slow and steady savings gets you there. Lots of $100,000 jobs around. As long as husband and spouse makes $100,000 each it should be doable.

Only 5 percent of households in the U.S. make more than 200k a year. Jeez.
There are 11-12M millionaires in the USA. With average household size of 3-4 that’s 33-48M American households. Which is 10% - 16% of the population. How did they get there if not by earning big saving big or inheritance ????
The average household size is 2.54 not 3-4. You'll probably also find that of those millionaire households, the household size is smaller than the national average due to older people having more wealth and hence being overrepresented in the sample.

In any case, being a millionaire is still not all that common and those who are can consider themselves fortunate. I know I do.
Last edited by jminv on Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TxAg
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by TxAg » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:05 pm

sschullo wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:23 pm
I learned a long time ago not to compare. There are highly elite talented people everywhere and then there is just me, an uncomplicated farm kid who did pretty good in the big city starting with nothing and with no talents for anything. I was very shy and afraid of my own shadow as a young man. Not good in a competitive capitalistic culture. Yet, just like Mr. Money Muscheche, I feel like I have done what I wanted and yet did not have to work every minute of the day to make money. I married well and made enough in a profession that I loved (public school teaching) and to experience things and do activities that helped others, and even to do so I had to pay for some of that additional fulfilling experience. I loved every minute.

I have learned that no matter what the level of income or wealth, people suffer in their own way. Yeah, it's a little easier to suffer when one doesn't have money worries, however, just about everybody here knows that material things alone don't bring everlasting happiness. Sure a new car or new TV is exciting for about a week or so, but that's about it. I love learning new things such as ballroom dancing, writing another book, Buddhism and working on a new romantic relationship.

I think about the fact that I am alive at 70 and wrote two books about personal finance and that I am a millionaire twice over. Yet, I was wounded in Nam, survived cancer, never made much money, actually, do not like investing, build wealth slowly over a lifetime (in this day and age, that is very old fashion) and had the most shocking and devastating loss of a 40-year relationship just 2.5 years ago.

Yet, I am happy I found new love and that I can manage my money without an adviser. That is a true skill that so many of our friends and relatives just don't get. Always think about what you have rather than what you don't have, because those things are probably not for you anyway. We have a karma, accept it and your life will always be fullfilling.

Great post!

I'm half your age but strive for this enlightenment.

getthatmarshmallow
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by getthatmarshmallow » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:28 pm

I don't mind it. I didn't choose a career path aimed at making a lot of money, and it's interesting to me to see what people with a lot more money spend it on.

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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by denovo » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:34 pm

davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:22 pm
denovo wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:05 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok. I apologize. I did not intend to demoralize rather illustrate that you don’t need to be a doctor or a google employee to make it FI. Slow and steady savings gets you there. Lots of $100,000 jobs around. As long as husband and spouse makes $100,000 each it should be doable.

Only 5 percent of households in the U.S. make more than 200k a year. Jeez.
There are 11-12M millionaires in the USA. With average household size of 3-4 that’s 33-48M American households. Which is 10% - 16% of the population. How did they get there if not by earning big saving big or inheritance ????
Your numbers are way off the mark. How can 33-48 M of American households be 10 percent of the population when they are only 125 million households. Plus 11-12M is already for households. The right numbers are below.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... in-the-us/

There are 125 million households in the US. The total population of the US is 325 million.

https://dqydj.com/net-worth-brackets-we ... e-percent/

Only 10 percent of households (i.e. 12.5 million) have a net worth of over 1 million.

Only 6-7 percent of households make over 200k in income.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by friar1610 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:15 pm

I'm an old retired guy who long ago stopped worrying about how much income I have relative to others. But I will say that I'm often amazed by some of the incomes relatively young people (say, in their 30s and 40s) are earning these days if BH posts are to be believed (and I gave no reason to disbelieve them). I'm sure a lot of them are doctors, lawyers, highly skilled techies, business owners, etc. and that many work incredibly long hours for those incomes, but it still blows my mind. I have all I need and virtually all of what I want, so I wouldn't want to trade places with these folks. But the incomes amaze me.
Friar1610

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unclescrooge
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by unclescrooge » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:16 pm

Darth Xanadu wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:58 pm
unclescrooge wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:51 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:03 pm
triceratop wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:50 am
I buy all of my main articles of clothing at Goodwill
I knew someone who bought all his shirts at Goodwill, wore them once or twice, and then donated them back.

Not much more expensive than sending his shirts out to the cleaner, or so he said.
Genius!
Except he's wearing clothes straight off the rack from Goodwill. :shock:

I buy thrift clothes occasionally. But I wash it all before wearing them.
They wash everything before putting it on the racks.

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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Darth Xanadu » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:34 pm

unclescrooge wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:16 pm
Darth Xanadu wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:58 pm
unclescrooge wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:51 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:03 pm
triceratop wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:50 am
I buy all of my main articles of clothing at Goodwill
I knew someone who bought all his shirts at Goodwill, wore them once or twice, and then donated them back.

Not much more expensive than sending his shirts out to the cleaner, or so he said.
Genius!
Except he's wearing clothes straight off the rack from Goodwill. :shock:

I buy thrift clothes occasionally. But I wash it all before wearing them.
They wash everything before putting it on the racks.
Are you sure? That's news to me. Either way, I'll continue to wash my thrift purchases.
"A courageous teacher, failure is."

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unclescrooge
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by unclescrooge » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:38 pm

triceratop wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:58 pm
unclescrooge wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:51 pm
oxothuk wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:03 pm
triceratop wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:50 am
I buy all of my main articles of clothing at Goodwill
I knew someone who bought all his shirts at Goodwill, wore them once or twice, and then donated them back.

Not much more expensive than sending his shirts out to the cleaner, or so he said.
Genius!
I don't know about "genius", it costs me $2.00 to do all of my laundry every 2 weeks.

I'll grant you it is "genius" if one has the unfortunate problem of excess cash flow that one is unburdening oneself of. :wink:
I spend $2.75 on cleaning/ pressing for each shirt.

Buying a shirt for $3, then getting a tax deduction on the donation is pretty clever.

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rosylenm
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by rosylenm » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:07 pm

I had a couple of windfalls today—

Purchased tube of ointment at not my regular pharmacy and was charged $7.94. Submitted prescription refill again and had it filled at regular pharmacy and was charged $2.77. Returned first tube purchased while picking up second tube (windfall (sort of) — $5.17 plus got rid of old prescriptions cluttering up one of my drawers while there).

I found two bucks on the floor at the grocery store and turned it in to one of the cashiers about a month ago. He took my name and number and told me if no one claimed it, it would be all mine. I got a call yesterday that no one claimed it! Windfall—$2.00. Since I was at the grocery store, decided to pick up some beer and managed to get 24 local-ish (brewed all in CA) beers for less than a buck each (buy three six packs, get fourth for $0.01). Not a windfall, but a pretty good deal for four different beers I haven’t had before. I strolled by the clearance section and noticed they had Pop Chips (they were on clearance last week for $0.88 (it was really $0.99, but I misremembered). I asked one the staff members if they were still $0.88, he checked the price for me and it rung up as $2.89. He took pity on me and said they would honor the $0.88 price from last week! And they had cock n bull ginger beer on clearance too! Not quite windfalls, but money saved (sort of) while shopping.

My point? Some times you only get little wins, but they are still wins. :D

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unclescrooge
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by unclescrooge » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:49 am

rr2 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:31 pm
sport wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:07 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok. I apologize. I did not intend to demoralize rather illustrate that you don’t need to be a doctor or a google employee to make it FI. Slow and steady savings gets you there. Lots of $100,000 jobs around. As long as husband and spouse makes $100,000 each it should be doable.
I respectfully suggest a dose of reality. Perhaps in San Francisco or NYC such jobs abound, but certainly not everywhere. DW and I never made anywhere near 100K, and we both have MS degrees. Yet, by starting early, being thrifty, and investing successfully, we have a very comfortable retirement. I am sure the people that know us would be most surprised to learn of our net worth.
@ davidsorensen32 -- This post of yours did come across as very disconnected. The fraction of couples (or households) earning 200K+ is fairly small. I would venture that it is likely to be less than 5% in the US.

I do agree with your point that slow and steady can win this race. Here is n example of a situation with a couple with a joint income close to or above median values. Let's take 60K income. If this couple can manage to max a couple of IRAs + maybe a 5-10% 401k (including match) for 30+ years, they should be quite well off at retirement. A rough guess is that the accumulation will be close to $1M. Also, in this situation SS income will probably be a larger fraction of income while working. Thus SS income + savings should provide close to 100% of pre-retirement income.
The places where it's common for a couple to make $200k also have ridiculous house prices. After you factor taxes, housing costs, and day care (commonly $1500-$2000 per month per kid) this couple is usually worse off than a comparable couple in a LCOL city.

bnrtgb
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by bnrtgb » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:04 am

It seems to me that one of the main points of Bogleheads.org and the Bogleheads philosophy is to get to a position of getting to ask those "heavy hitting"-type questions in a forum where people a) may have experienced the same thing and b) are willing to share their experience in doing so.

If you're not there yet (I'm not) it is inspirational to see where people never took home $100k and yet have 2 million in the bank. It can be done and many people here are living proof. That is what I need to see. It's also one reason I share this site with anyone who will listen to me talk about it. I also appreciate the finer discussions of how to maximize savings through back doors, mega back doors, tax efficiency, etc. etc. These are things I had never heard of until I found Bogleheads.

I have learned more about personal finance in the last year of knowing about and reading Bogleheads (and the associated books) than I did in the previous 30 years of being interested in it..

That said, one thing I would like to see on the main page is for the consumer board to not be mixed in with the finance & theory board threads. But that's my only gripe :D

:sharebeer

Momus
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Momus » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:18 am

A lot of Bogleheads posts are people making 350k+/yr income. It's pretty much every other posts. I should've been in medicine/big law/tech lol... :oops:

The disconnect is real.

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jharkin
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by jharkin » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:26 am

Krischi wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:59 pm
rr2 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:31 pm
@ davidsorensen32 -- This post of yours did come across as very disconnected. The fraction of couples (or households) earning 200K+ is fairly small. I would venture that it is likely to be less than 5% in the US.
Less than 7% to be exact. I think there is a significant danger of us losing sight of the fact that as a group we are quite extraordinarily fortunate to be here, with this level of financial education and successes in our careers. It always seems doable if you've been there done that, but it says nothing about whether the same thing is doable for others.

I value this forum for the advice and in depth financial education it has been providing. But make no mistake, I roll my eyes at those threads, too, that ask if retirement is possible with an income of 500k and 10M in the bank.

Exactly. I live outside of Boston and work in tech... While I dont make some of the stratospheric numbers the doctors lawyers and valley types here post I DO make a good number and know that I am still better off than the vast majority.

I look around my local social circle and I have a lot of friend with 6 figure jobs.... in the Boston suburbs a surface view you would think everybody makes big money from all the German cars on the road and big mcmansion developments going up...
BUT
My wife works in the public school system and sees first hand what a small percentage of residents us fortunate folk are.... its just easy to fall into the bubble and not notice whats right in front of your eyes.

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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by livesoft » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:36 am

I am unconcerned about the number of posts from high income folks.

If some folks are concerned that there are a lot of posts from people with higher income than they have themselves, then they should post more in order to raise the financial awareness of folks with lesser income. Our household taxable income puts us in the 2017 15% marginal income tax bracket and I post more.
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Grasshopper » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:58 am

Ms G.thinks we are poor, I don't tell her otherwise.

wrongfunds
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:01 am

fittan wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:11 am
Love this board but can't help to feel disconnected this morning when the first 3 posts are something like:

1) I will be making $350K, should I save for my kid's 529?

2) Should I buy a $1.2 million condo? My inlaws just gave me $235K.

3) I got a $600K windfall...should I pay off mortgage?

Feeling a bit disconnected y'all...just saying :?
If you had made this post *this* morning, you could have added

4) "I only made $390K as W2 income this year and I have to send IRS 17K check :-( How can it be??"

Freefun
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Freefun » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:02 am

I don't measure my happiness by income or wealth - mine or others.

GRavitation towards excess is the prevailing wind in the Western world.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?

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Watty
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by Watty » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:08 am

jminv wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:05 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:22 pm
denovo wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:05 pm
davidsorensen32 wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 pm
Ok. I apologize. I did not intend to demoralize rather illustrate that you don’t need to be a doctor or a google employee to make it FI. Slow and steady savings gets you there. Lots of $100,000 jobs around. As long as husband and spouse makes $100,000 each it should be doable.

Only 5 percent of households in the U.S. make more than 200k a year. Jeez.
There are 11-12M millionaires in the USA. With average household size of 3-4 that’s 33-48M American households. Which is 10% - 16% of the population. How did they get there if not by earning big saving big or inheritance ????
The average household size is 2.54 not 3-4. You'll probably also find that of those millionaire households, the household size is smaller than the national average due to older people having more wealth and hence being overrepresented in the sample.

In any case, being a millionaire is still not all that common and those who are can consider themselves fortunate. I know I do.
Just FYI, a mid size farm is likely worth a million dollars so being a millionaire is not always glamorous.

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tennisplyr
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Re: A lot of heavy hitters this morning

Post by tennisplyr » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:18 am

I posted a similar thread a few years ago, most live just fine in retirement on much less and are thankful for it.

viewtopic.php?t=156043
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

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