[Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Local Chapters, Wiki, and general Bogleheads community discussion, news, events, and announcements
TravelforFun
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by TravelforFun » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:57 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:12 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:10 pm
That happens, and then sometimes the poster exits, either temporarily or permanently, but without being escorted out. I liked jbolden1517's posts also.
I miss sscritic.

Victoria
Same here especially since I'm now approaching my FRA.

User avatar
hornet96
Posts: 393
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:45 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by hornet96 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:04 pm

Saltycaper -

I just wanted to say that YOU have become one poster that I regularly stop and read when I'm scanning through topics. I came a little late to the recent epic thread posted by Taylor re: "John Bogle has been RIGHT about international investing!" (viewtopic.php?f=10&t=224075#p3462125), where it was clear to me that you were pretty much the only one in that entire thread that truly understood what the fundamental problems were with such a statement (made by such a prominent BH, no less). By the time I was ready to jump in to post in support of your thoughts, the thread was locked (naturally).

To be honest, I'm afraid that that thread might represent the moment when the BH forum "jumped the shark."

User avatar
nedsaid
Posts: 8537
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by nedsaid » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:06 pm

I am a tiny bit surprised with this thread. We should all read Section 6 of the forum policies, Administrative Policies where moderation procedures are discussed. My understanding is that we are not supposed to criticize moderator decisions on the forum. Maybe this is a way of allowing some thoughts and feelings to be aired and perhaps feedback on the forum itself. There is a fine line here.

I do think the forum is monitored well and things are not allowed to get out of hand. That is a good thing.
A fool and his money are good for business.

User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 10254
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by HomerJ » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:13 pm

saltycaper wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:13 pm
Uncle Pennybags wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:03 pm

Those posts get into charts and formulas that I find totally uninteresting and an unBoglehead; they scare the newbies into the arms of the Edward Jones. Maybe that is their intention.
Inadequate knowledge is what drives people into the arms of Edward Jones, not more knowledge.
This is incorrect for most people. Myself maybe included. If I thought I had to learn PhD material to invest, I'd probably hand it off to "a guy".

Bogleheads investing philosophy is very simple. When people come on here and say "No, no, no... you can't just stay the course, you have to learn about variable X and variable Y and variable Z, and you have to understand this formula, and this chart, and you need to tweak your AA every time something changes", suddenly investing seems complicated.

Many of those "interesting" posts call for market-timing. They were always smart enough to say "Oh, I don't believe in market-timing", but then they would follow it with "At THIS TIME, variable <whatever> is high, which indicates that investment <whatever> is going to do poorly/wonderful going forward."

And then show a bunch of charts.

I think many of the "interesting" posters worked actively AGAINST the basic Boglehead principles of buy and hold" and "stay the course".

User avatar
Uncle Pennybags
Posts: 1828
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:05 am

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Uncle Pennybags » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:26 pm

hornet96 wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:04 pm
To be honest, I'm afraid that that thread might represent the moment when the BH forum "jumped the shark."
This is the most interesting thread in a long time.

Image
HomerJ wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:13 pm
Bogleheads investing philosophy is very simple.
Yes it is. I'm talking about the posts that are totally not Boglehead, like sell US and buy EM with charts and algorithms.

User avatar
saltycaper
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: The Tower

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by saltycaper » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:32 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:13 pm

This is incorrect for most people. Myself maybe included. If I thought I had to learn PhD material to invest, I'd probably hand it off to "a guy".

Bogleheads investing philosophy is very simple. When people come on here and say "No, no, no... you can't just stay the course, you have to learn about variable X and variable Y and variable Z, and you have to understand this formula, and this chart, and you need to tweak your AA every time something changes", suddenly investing seems complicated.

Many of those "interesting" posts call for market-timing. They were always smart enough to say "Oh, I don't believe in market-timing", but then they would follow it with "At THIS TIME, variable <whatever> is high, which indicates that investment <whatever> is going to do poorly/wonderful going forward."

And then show a bunch of charts.

I think many of the "interesting" posters worked actively AGAINST the basic Boglehead principles of buy and hold" and "stay the course".
I don't see things often occurring in the extreme picture you paint. A lot of "chart and formula" discussion occurs in response to a poster asking a specific question or in the theory/news subforum. In such cases, information is being sought actively, and that shouldn't be discouraged, IMO. I struggle to think of many posts where a newcomer seeks general portfolio advice and gets the sort of response you depict, but I agree that would be more likely to hurt than to help.
"I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said." --Alan Greenspan

abner kravitz
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 7:42 am
Location: Beaufort County, SC

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by abner kravitz » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:35 pm

MJW wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:41 pm
--Along those same lines, I don’t understand why some people choose to respond to a thread on a particular topic simply to state their disinterest in that topic. For example, someone starts a thread about recommendations on a new whiskey to try, and another member responds to inform us they don’t drink alcohol and don’t know why anyone else would. Or when someone asks for a TV show recommendation and someone responds with “I don’t watch TV.” It’s a completely useless response when the member could have simply moved on, and I do wish that sort of thing were moderated more often.
Amen.

Anyhow, I think the site is great. At this point in my life, I think I find more value in the off-topic stuff - home maintenance and repair, product reviews, etc. There are a lot of people who know a lot of things that I don't. The financial topics tend to get a little stale after you've been around for a couple of years IMO.

User avatar
saltycaper
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: The Tower

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by saltycaper » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:40 pm

hornet96 wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:04 pm
Saltycaper -

I just wanted to say that YOU have become one poster that I regularly stop and read when I'm scanning through topics.
Keep following. Your expectations will be reset in no time. :)
"I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said." --Alan Greenspan

sreynard
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 8:11 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by sreynard » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:44 pm

peppers wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:42 pm
What's facebook?
Is it like face-palm? :oops:

Bigbonds
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:51 am

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Bigbonds » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:45 pm

CantPassAgain wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:53 am
Bigbonds wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:19 pm
I agree. This place is a very tight sandbox and there are a ton of investing related topics that could have a major impact on all bogleheads that you're not even allowed to discuss(the federal reserve, for a mild example). Members with different opinions from the norm are not tolerated and often have topics locked and are banned in record time. There is only so far you can go in an environment like this. The only topics that are even mildly interesting is domestic versus international or swr, but even those get locked and old. Echo chamber is the best way to describe it.
There has got to be a line. When more and more people arrive who clearly have no interest in passive indexing and spend all of their energies in trying to disparage the Boglehead philosophy, it is probably just as well some of those folks are shown the door. As another poster mentioned upthread, this place isn't Seeking Alpha. Or Reddit, or Morningstar. It's Bogleheads.org.

If anything, I think the moderation here is pretty tolerant of other views, as long as those views don't take over the forum. It's not about being closed minded or not wanting to learn or stupidity, it's about a difference in philosophy that cannot be resolved.
If it only it could be so black and white. It is possible to be a passive index investor and still take a strong interest in what the fed is doing, but you would never know that if this was your only source of investing information.

I'm sure there are tons of very open minded and intelligent people who post here, but when you say these are the 10 topics you're allowed to talk about, stay within the lines, it tends to get stale. A good way to describe or compare it would be to say that the Bogleheads forum is basically the Berkeley university of investing advice or maybe the Google of investing advice. You're allowed to have an opinion as long as it conforms with the group.

Grt2bOutdoors
Posts: 16982
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: New York

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:49 pm

Less interesting for whom?

IMO, I find that you gain the most when you participate, those who stay on the fringes may find things to be less interesting because it's not their priority. This forum is the best moderated one out there, there are a variety of topics that range from "age 21, have money in checking, what should I do with it?, to topics involving bicycles, $5,000 watches, factor investing, home ownership pitfalls, when to get rid of a car, wine, ice cream and waffle makers, pressure cookers, trips to national parks, Europe, cruises, how to save money at DisneyWorld, what's in your wallet, how much cash do you keep in your wallet, do you actually use cash, places to see, places to avoid. You are telling me you find these to be topics that are uninteresting? Have any suggestions for topics you think are interesting - when will you post the thread and start the conversation off?

All of the above said, the forum is what it is because of its members. One should not expect that forum members as well liked as they are/may be will be sitting on a chair or couch glued to the screen instead of going about their day to day life. So what a member hasn't written in 30 or 90 days? There are countless others who take up cause every day responding to questions. Chime in, you may find yourself becoming addicted to this oasis amongst a sea of mainly GIGO out there.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

User avatar
Uncle Pennybags
Posts: 1828
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:05 am

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Uncle Pennybags » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:07 pm

abner kravitz wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:35 pm
...more value in the off-topic stuff...
I just found out here viewtopic.php?f=11&t=226339 that Photobucket is doing a Quicken times 10.

Fallible
Posts: 6106
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:44 pm
Contact:

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Fallible » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:09 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:13 pm
saltycaper wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:13 pm
Uncle Pennybags wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:03 pm

Those posts get into charts and formulas that I find totally uninteresting and an unBoglehead; they scare the newbies into the arms of the Edward Jones. Maybe that is their intention.
Inadequate knowledge is what drives people into the arms of Edward Jones, not more knowledge.
This is incorrect for most people. Myself maybe included. If I thought I had to learn PhD material to invest, I'd probably hand it off to "a guy".

Bogleheads investing philosophy is very simple. When people come on here and say "No, no, no... you can't just stay the course, you have to learn about variable X and variable Y and variable Z, and you have to understand this formula, and this chart, and you need to tweak your AA every time something changes", suddenly investing seems complicated. ...
And, thankfully, that's when Taylor Larimore comes in to remind us to keep it simple.
Bogleheads® wiki | Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle

rbaldini
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:20 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by rbaldini » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:13 pm

I think what's happening is that the novelty has worn off. Most likely, there's not much more you need to know for your personal finance, at the moment.

Bogleheads in general aren't that interesting. That's not a bad thing.

Biffer
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:34 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Biffer » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:20 pm

Bigbonds wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:45 pm
I'm sure there are tons of very open minded and intelligent people who post here, but when you say these are the 10 topics you're allowed to talk about, stay within the lines, it tends to get stale.
I don't get the impression that anyone is saying "these are the 10 topics you're allowed to talk about, stay within the lines".

The top of my screen currently reads:

"1336 new posts and replies over 195 topics in last day".

User avatar
Simplegift
Posts: 2553
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:45 pm
Location: Central Oregon

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Simplegift » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:39 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:00 am
If you are finding the forum less interesting then do something about it. What topics are of interest to you that you feel are worth discussing? Make some interesting thought-provoking posts or ask some interesting questions. Think of it this way: I'ts not what Bogleheads can do for you - it's what you can do for Bogleheads.
Totally agree. The Forum is what the members make of it. If not particularly interested in the topics being posted, then do some research on a topic that interests you and share it with the Forum. For example, the recent fascinating thread on “What is Bitcoin?” by grayfox. With its many knowledgeable members and its fair, consistent moderation, the potential of the Forum for interesting discussions on investing seems unlimited.

Rather than lament the loss of a few expert posters on the Forum, become a quasi-expert on a topic of interest to you. Yes, you’ll likely have to defend every detail of your post, down to the last comma. But isn't that how we learn new things on the Forum? And, in the end, isn’t that what makes the Forum interesting?
Cordially, Todd

User avatar
rcjchicity
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:07 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by rcjchicity » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:57 pm

saltycaper wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:06 pm
hornet96 wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:44 am

I always do a Control+F search on LadyGeek's name when I come here just to find the threads that have been locked, as they are almost always the most interesting these days.
Isn't it disappointing when you click on a thread only to see LadyGeek's comment was not, "This thread has run its course and is locked," but rather, "Thread moved to the Personal Consumer Issues forum (lubricants)"?
Ha! :D Love it

skjoldur
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:11 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by skjoldur » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:13 pm

Da5id wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:26 am

I think it is a hard balance. The Bogleheads forums are an oasis of civility in contrast to the nasty cesspool that forms when there is unmoderated anonymous discussion on the internet. I believe that is due in large part to moderation. Keeping politics out for example really does help the tone. I'm occasionally disappointed when threads I'm interested in are locked, but I think the relative sanity here is worth that myself.
"Oasis of civility" for sure. It's a very impressive accomplishment and I am pretty sure it's due to the forum policies and the hard (and often thankless) work of the moderators rather than the good nature of the participants.

Considering how dark the abyss is, I'm happy to give up on some interesting topics in return for the simple existence of the forum.

User avatar
Mel Lindauer
Moderator
Posts: 27369
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Daytona Beach Shores, Florida
Contact:

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Mel Lindauer » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:19 pm

I've had to remove a number of posts that commented on forum policy. I need to remind everyone that posting comments about forum moderation (whether positive or negative) are against forum policy and are not allowed. Members can always PM an Admin or a Moderator with their concerns/comments (again, positive or negative).
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

peppers
Posts: 1274
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:05 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by peppers » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:24 pm

sreynard wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:44 pm
peppers wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:42 pm
What's facebook?
Is it like face-palm? :oops:
More like 捂臉 as sscritic would say.
"..the cavalry ain't comin' kid, you're on your own..."

User avatar
F150HD
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:49 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by F150HD » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:24 pm

abner kravitz wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:35 pm
I think I find more value in the off-topic stuff - home maintenance and repair, product reviews, etc. There are a lot of people who know a lot of things that I don't.
Like how to cook a pork shoulder?

_____Image

daveydoo
Posts: 863
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 1:53 am

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by daveydoo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:32 pm

I like it. It's eavesdropping on people I generally respect. I don't regularly interact with a cohort that shares a similar financial interest or outlook -- so this is it. I like thinking about money and I hate getting taken advantage of. I can't figure out why that's a minority out there. I've picked up a lot of things passively here -- from the BH luminaries and from some single-digit posters, too. I like the eclectic posts and I like the funny and sarcastic asides. If it were all factor investing or other purely mathematical arguments with limited real-world support (oh, other than back-testing), then I would wander off. And the level of discourse on this forum is really unlike any other I've contributed to. People can really express themselves. There's even punctuation.

TomCat96
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:18 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by TomCat96 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:57 pm

The boglehead philosophy is and should inherently be an uninteresting one.

But uninteresting doesn't mean inaccurate. It doesn't mean wrong, or deficient. Here simplicity is valued over complexity and our one task is to stay the course. That is what has been proven to work. Additional papers and discussions appear to only further validate it as optimal. Likewise, additional discussions on this forum seem to do the same. I think that might color the subjective experience of the doctine as "uninteresting"

Some people come here for a mixture of seeking ideas, discussion, finding community. For me, above all, I seek truth. In this case, truth being the set of information which will provide me with the greatest likelihood of the best investing outcome in the long term. If the truth is uninteresting, I'm ok with that.

Besides, in my subjective experience, the bias in favor of staying the course is merely an opportunity. Call it bias, emotional energy, fervor, what have you. It is emotional impetus on the part of very educated intelligent people to go out and find well reasoned articulations on why you are wrong when you deviate from staying the course.

And those well reasoned articulations are valuable. If you can see past the snark, and extract the rationale for what it really provides, they are a means of obtaining good investing knowledge--namely why deviations do not work.

There are ways of making bogleheads interesting.

Hockey10
Posts: 123
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:20 pm
Location: Philadelphia suburbs

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Hockey10 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:03 pm

I have to admit that when livesoft is not posting a few dozen times per day, the site is less interesting. :( But after 55,000+ posts, I guess he deserves some time away.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 40504
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:19 am

I removed a few off-topic posts which suggested a "more interesting" topic for discussion.

As a reminder, let's keep the topics "family friendly". Not just in language, but subject matter.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

Dottie57
Posts: 2117
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Dottie57 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:06 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:44 am
Dottie57 wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:19 am
gkaplan wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:08 pm
CantPassAgain wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:14 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:10 pm

That happens, and then sometimes the poster exits, either temporarily or permanently, but without being escorted out. I liked jbolden1517's posts also.
I won't claim to be a big fan but he sure made the place more interesting.
Not for me.I zoomed past his posts.

Me too.
I should probably clarify. I didn't like his posts as much as find them interesting for being outside of the echo chamber.

Frankly, I just found his posts above my head. He also seemed argumentative which makes me wince. So I arounded his posts.

I want the simplicity of bogleheads. Stocks, bonds, cds, savings accounts. I also expect my returns will not be as great as someone with more knowledge.

User avatar
Gort
Posts: 378
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:07 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Gort » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:18 pm

Gort wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:57 pm
I wish we could restart the polls that we use to have. Not sure why the moderators took them away. The polls were always interesting and starting them again would re-energize discussion.
Bumped to see if there is any interest or thought on resurrecting the polls we used to have. :?

itstoomuch
Posts: 4564
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:17 pm
Location: midValley OR

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by itstoomuch » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:30 pm

I try to make BH interesting... Thru active topic selection management. :mrgreen: :oops:
Rev90517; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax 25%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo

John Z
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:42 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by John Z » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:52 pm

Let's settle this question once and for all: Start a survey. Oops.

BogleAlltheWay
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 5:25 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by BogleAlltheWay » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:00 pm

There is only so much you need to know to follow the Boglehead philosophy and only so many financial questions that can be asked. Things don't change much as compared to other topics. For example , if you trade stocks often, there is always new information and new stocks to research. other popular discussion topics : movies , music, sports etc. things always change and there are no things to discuss.

truenorth418
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:38 am

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by truenorth418 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:44 pm

Here are two reasons I have not been visiting as much.

1. Passive investing in the "Bogleheads" philosophy is a fairly simple concept to grasp and once grasped the discussions become rather repetitive. It's great to visit for reinforcement, but there is not a lot of actionable advice once the basics are in place. "Don't just do something, stand there" is great advice but the implication is to stop tinkering with the portfolio and spend time on other things.

2. I seem to be seeing a lot more "lifestyle" related topics lately that have little or nothing to do with money or investing. I just saw one about dating in your 30s and sharing LinkedIn profiles. I left a snarky comment, maybe I shouldn't have, but come on there are other forums to discuss dating issues, and unless there is an implied financial or investing aspect I don't think it belongs here. I am finding myself sifting through an increasing number of non-financial related topics to find the useful and relevant ones and that is contributing to fewer visits overall.

User avatar
Youngblood
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:18 am

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Youngblood » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:06 pm

Gort wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:57 pm
I wish we could restart the polls that we use to have. Not sure why the moderators took them away. The polls were always interesting and starting them again would re-energize discussion.
I liked the polls too!
They gave a quick view of where most people stand on a particular money matter. Then, if interested, one could read the thread for specifics.

When my own choice is radically different than the majority, I enjoy both finding out why and then considering whether or not I should change.

YB
"I made my money by selling too soon." | Bernard M. Baruch

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 6607
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:10 pm

truenorth418 wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:44 pm
2. I seem to be seeing a lot more "lifestyle" related topics lately that have little or nothing to do with money or investing. I just saw one about dating in your 30s and sharing LinkedIn profiles. I left a snarky comment, maybe I shouldn't have, but come on there are other forums to discuss dating issues, and unless there is an implied financial or investing aspect I don't think it belongs here. I am finding myself sifting through an increasing number of non-financial related topics to find the useful and relevant ones and that is contributing to fewer visits overall.
I have to disagree on the second point, unless you can point to a good alternative site. My son, for example, is a 21-year old Boglehead. A place for him to discuss social issues (e.g., how to approach disparate incomes in your peer group) serves a useful purpose. I agree that if there's absolutely NO financial aspect, it probably belongs elsewhere, but for many, there is no aspect of social life that is entirely removed from finances.

PS not related to above quote: I liked the polls also.

azurekep
Posts: 890
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:16 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by azurekep » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:29 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:26 am
However, I do think there is something important lost by not allowing comments/suggestions about the "investing implications" of possible future changes, such as tax or other regulatory changes.

Regardless of whether the "change" comes to pass, it would sometimes be helpful (for us, anyway), to have a better idea of "what *might* happen IF <such and such> was implemented.

That way, one could keep in mind that "this plan seems fine, but IF/in case of <such and such>, maybe we should also consider <this or that>, and maybe only do half of <such and such> or whatever...

The problem, obviously, is this could - or would? - degenerate into nasty political comments about whether <such and such> was prudent, legal, or whatever, and that would NOT be the point of the exercise of "what should we consider for the future just in case..."


I admit to being confused on whether ALL prospective policies are disallowed, or only ones with investment implications.

A lot of things have been happening in telecommunications, for example, and the latest issue is Net Neutrality. Since I don't subscribe to any streaming services, I haven't kept up on what this is about except to note there are concepts of fast and slow lanes.

Given that a lot of posts on Personal Consumer Issues relate to streaming services and cutting the cord, I've been curious (as an outsider) as to how the prospective (potential) implementation of fast and slow lanes would affect subscribers. But I'm not sure if this is a permitted topic.

Am I correct in assuming that ANY prospective future regulatory change is prohibited from being discussed? Regardless of whether it has investment implcations?

User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 17410
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by VictoriaF » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:37 pm

azurekep wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:29 pm
Am I correct in assuming that ANY prospective future regulatory change is prohibited from being discussed? Regardless of whether it has investment implications?
We discussed the eclipse when it still was prospective.

Victoria
Last edited by VictoriaF on Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)

abner kravitz
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue May 05, 2015 7:42 am
Location: Beaufort County, SC

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by abner kravitz » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:06 pm

F150HD wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:24 pm
abner kravitz wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:35 pm
I think I find more value in the off-topic stuff - home maintenance and repair, product reviews, etc. There are a lot of people who know a lot of things that I don't.
Like how to cook a pork shoulder?

_____Image
Well, that's more interesting to me than the biweekly discussion of whether or not to include car/appliances/golf clubs in one's net worth. Pork is delicious.

azurekep
Posts: 890
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:16 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by azurekep » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:41 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:37 pm
azurekep wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:29 pm
Am I correct in assuming that ANY prospective future regulatory change is prohibited from being discussed? Regardless of whether it has investment implications?
We discussed the eclipse when it still was prospective.

Victoria
Good point.

Except eclipses aren't regulatory issues unless one is talking about Government aircraft being used to transport cabinet members to view an eclipse. ;)

User avatar
Uncle Pennybags
Posts: 1828
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:05 am

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Uncle Pennybags » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:41 pm

azurekep wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:41 pm
Except eclipses aren't regulatory issues unless one is talking about Government aircraft being used to transport cabinet members to view an eclipse. ;)
NASA flew two jet in the path of totality, they carried scientists though.

Pops1860
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:05 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Pops1860 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:53 pm

I agree, my personal experience is, that due to repetition and familiarity, much of what is posted now (for me) is less interesting than before. But I also agree new members get here all the time, and we were all new ourselves once, as posted earlier.

And then there are the times when I come across a finance-related topic discussion that I didn't know I didn't know anything about.

Several times this helped me avoid learning things the hard way about situations/decisions that were 'obviously clear and straightforward' to me before stumbling over the posts here. Thank you.

qwertyjazz
Posts: 1026
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:24 am

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by qwertyjazz » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:28 pm

livesoft wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:34 pm
It is true that this community has matured and just about everything has been discussed before. The recent coyote thread follows at least one or two previous coyote threads.

I also wonder if the Houston poster is still worried about the chamber bitter weed in their grass?
viewtopic.php?t=226026 but if so, post again and I will advise how to get rid of it. Indeed, I did several experiments on weeds this summer and have lots to report.

I have also noticed that this forum has become what I imagine Facebook is like. I guess that many posters are not registered at any other social media site, so why not ask about non-financial issues here?

But I am guilty, too --- after all, I tried to liven things up here today and get people dancing with some Talking Heads tunes.
Same as it ever was.
Same as it ever was.
Same as it ever was.
Same as it ever was.
Same as it ever was.
Same as it ever was.
...
Now if you can make a Dadaist Talking Heads Song fit personal finance:
https://play.google.com/music/preview/T ... songlyrics
G.E. Box "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

jmk
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by jmk » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:54 am

I agree, and it's due to the big names. But on the other hand, the wiki is much more robust than the old days, and much of the wisdom of the old guys has been memorialized there.

SGM
Posts: 2369
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:46 am

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by SGM » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:05 am

I don't recall why the polls were abandoned, but I was not sorry to see them go. I certainly wouldn't base any investment decisions based on polls.

The Wizard
Posts: 10938
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by The Wizard » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:31 am

azurekep wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:29 pm
...Am I correct in assuming that ANY prospective future regulatory change is prohibited from being discussed? Regardless of whether it has investment implcations?
That's a pretty good assumption.
And if something doesn't have investment implications, then it's probably off topic in that most general discussions are disallowed.

And most regulatory changes involve politics...
Attempted new signature...

User avatar
Uncle Pennybags
Posts: 1828
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:05 am

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Uncle Pennybags » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:33 am

Pops1860 wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:53 pm
I didn't know I didn't know anything about
I often wonder about the unknown unknowns I don't know about but should.

blueman457
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:19 pm

Re: Is Bogelheads getting less interesting?

Post by blueman457 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:55 am

celia wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:27 pm
I agree that there are a lot of consumer and travel posts that just don't interest me. But I hang around to help others rather than ask others for help. After you've solved the original problem for which you came here, don't you feel obligated to "pay it forard" by helping a few other people? And if you've answered the same question 3 times or more, can you somehow integrate that concept into a wiki page? This forum can continue to run only if it has members who are willing to do what someone has done for them.

After all, it doesn't take long before you are out of the newbie category.
+1.

I also participate in the forum because it's a place where I can anonymously ask financial questions and get real answers.

User avatar
Raymond
Posts: 1171
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:04 am
Location: Texas

Re: Is Bogelheads getting less interesting?

Post by Raymond » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:48 am

blueman457 wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:55 am

I also participate in the forum because it's a place where I can anonymously ask financial questions and get real answers.
Agreed - I have not found another place where you can get excellent advice from multiple very intelligent people who have no financial stake in your situation.
"Ritter, Tod und Teufel"

S&L1940
Posts: 1518
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:19 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by S&L1940 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:28 am

skjoldur wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:13 pm
Da5id wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:26 am

I think it is a hard balance. The Bogleheads forums are an oasis of civility in contrast to the nasty cesspool that forms when there is unmoderated anonymous discussion on the internet. I believe that is due in large part to moderation. Keeping politics out for example really does help the tone. I'm occasionally disappointed when threads I'm interested in are locked, but I think the relative sanity here is worth that myself.
"Oasis of civility" for sure. It's a very impressive accomplishment and I am pretty sure it's due to the forum policies and the hard (and often thankless) work of the moderators rather than the good nature of the participants.

Considering how dark the abyss is, I'm happy to give up on some interesting topics in return for the simple existence of the forum.
My take is that "getting less interesting" is a personal issue.
Like the folks who are unhappy about a doctor who 'has a lousy (or sour) personality'
Yeah. But. How about the fact that she or he is a great care provider and is focused on keeping you well.
Invite the gregarious doctor for drinks or dinner, but stay with the one that gets you over the tough spots and actually keeps you healthy.
This uninteresting forum educated me, got me out of the grips of financial advisor "friends" who put their interests first, and got the dear wife and I on the path that led to a comfortable retirement all with the BH forum ER at 0.00%
Go ahead Bogleheads, bore me silly with your financial advice and guidance, I will get my fun and games elsewhere
Don't it always seem to go * That you don't know what you've got * Till it's gone

User avatar
Tycoon
Posts: 1061
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Tycoon » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:55 am

SGM wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:05 am
I don't recall why the polls were abandoned, but I was not sorry to see them go. I certainly wouldn't base any investment decisions based on polls.
Results were seriously statistically flawed. Biased samples, lack of randomness, truthfullness, etc. You might not base decisions on them, but others likely would.
...I might be just beginning | I might be near the end. Enya | | C'est la vie

retiredjg
Posts: 30381
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by retiredjg » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:00 pm

Tycoon wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:55 am
SGM wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:05 am
I don't recall why the polls were abandoned, but I was not sorry to see them go. I certainly wouldn't base any investment decisions based on polls.
Results were seriously statistically flawed. Biased samples, lack of randomness, truthfullness, etc. You might not base decisions on them, but others likely would.
I enjoyed the polls a lot, but agree they were seriously statistically flawed.

I wish we still had them, but some people probably did make decisions based on the polls so I guess it might be better not to have them.

User avatar
Peculiar_Investor
Posts: 944
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:23 am
Location: Calgary, AB
Contact:

Re: [Are the Bogleheads] getting less interesting?

Post by Peculiar_Investor » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:03 pm

Gort wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:57 pm
I wish we could restart the polls that we use to have. Not sure why the moderators took them away. The polls were always interesting and starting them again would re-energize discussion.
Alex's post on the subject, Polls Disabled
Alex Frakt wrote:
Fri May 01, 2015 12:16 pm
After consultation with the Advisory Board, I have disabled polls on this site.

The general problem with self-selecting polls is that the results only tell you only about those who chose to respond to the poll. They cannot be relied on as reflecting the broader will of the participants of this forum, nor can they give any clear insights into the question asked. With written answers (beyond the pointless "+1"), a reader at least has the opportunity to review the respondent's reasoning for his or her answer. In addition to the lack of utility of polls, they required a disproportionate amount of moderator effort and were usually in violation of our requirements that posts be both personal and actionable.

I do understand some polls have a certain entertainment value, but our resources are limited and we prefer to focus on areas where we feel we can do the most direct good.
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams

Locked