A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

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assumer
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A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by assumer » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:08 am

I went to visit an accountant yesterday to discuss my business and its tax implications. He is a prominent, accountant and handles many large companies. During the meeting, the accountant essentially told me how impressed he was at my knowledge of taxes, investments, and the tax implications of everything. I was well versed in backdoor roth's, 401k's, business s corp elections, ways to become more tax efficient, etc. etc.. He was also pleased that I valued simplicity over unnecessary complexity.

All of this is due to the extensive reading I've done, and the questions I've asked here. Essentially the time I've spent on bogleheads is not only going to save me money through direct ways such as expense ratios and tax burden, but in some indirect ways such as the amount of money I need to spend on accountants over my lifetime.

My impression is that a lot of the older members on this site want to pass on their knowledge and wisdom to the younger members, and as a younger member I want to say that it doesn't go unappreciated. Not only in specific questions (there is always at least one member who has the answer to whatever question you could possibly think of to ask!) but also in how to live your life.

The wisdom comes in other forms such as the mega threads debating what you should spend your money on at different points in your life, what gets the most happiness, not necessarily monetary return, for your money. The fact that you shouldn't spend so much of your time stressing about money since simplicity can free up more time to spend with your loved ones.

All this advice is picked up and absorbed by the younger generation on this site, and all the lurkers who read this site but don't participate.

As the world gets more complex and snake-oil salesmen from all sides try to figure out a way to line their pockets with our precious money, and young people's attention spans are starting to become shorter and shorter, bogleheads is a breath of fresh air.

To the advice givers, keep up the good work, and to the new members, keep asking intriguing questions (of course after searching!).

bloom2708
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by bloom2708 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:23 am

+1, well stated.
"We are here not to please but to provoke thoughtfulness" Unknown Boglehead

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RyeWhiskey
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by RyeWhiskey » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:01 pm

:sharebeer
This post was brought to you by Vanguard Total World Stock Index (VTWSX/VT).

chaz
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by chaz » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:25 pm

RyeWhiskey wrote::sharebeer
Ditto!
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

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Sents
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by Sents » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:25 pm

+1. As a young man in his mid 20's, I wholeheartedly agree.
Don't only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets. For it and knowledge can raise men to the divine. | L. Beethoven

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Mel Lindauer
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by Mel Lindauer » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:01 pm

It's always nice to hear that our work here on the forum is both helpful and appreciated. I hope that you and the other younger members will continue our work when we're no longer around.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

assumer
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by assumer » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:06 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:It's always nice to hear that our work here on the forum is both helpful and appreciated. I hope that you and the other younger members will continue our work when we're no longer around.
Well not just that, but hopefully it becomes more mainstream. The ways I see that happening are:

1. The general public starts waking up to the lack of benefits of high fees and silly financial products. Mainstream financial companies will inevitably supply the public's demands.

2. Younger members here end up with prominent positions in society and can help promote the philosophies espoused here via their public image.

3. Prominent people in society who aren't members here come to the same conclusions and end up inadvertently promoting the boglehead philosophy via their public image.

Edit: I'm also not convinced that the low cost and index fund philosophy is actually best for attempting to amass an extremely large amount of wealth such as the 100's of millions. There are other things at play, usually private equity investment opportunities that aren't available to the public via index funds, such as angel investing. Bogleheads will get you to a happy, comfortable, rich retirement, but won't make you extremely wealthy. You can't get to that level of wealth simply by taking on more risk with a higher EV. Just my opinion.

BillyG
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by BillyG » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:48 pm

I wish I could call myself a "younger" member but I'll have to leave it as a "newer" member.

I truly appreciate all of the fabulous advice here and the passion for accurate thinking and high ethics. Thanks everyone.

Billy

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Mel Lindauer
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by Mel Lindauer » Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:56 pm

assumer wrote:
Mel Lindauer wrote:It's always nice to hear that our work here on the forum is both helpful and appreciated. I hope that you and the other younger members will continue our work when we're no longer around.
Well not just that, but hopefully it becomes more mainstream. The ways I see that happening are:

1. The general public starts waking up to the lack of benefits of high fees and silly financial products. Mainstream financial companies will inevitably supply the public's demands.

2. Younger members here end up with prominent positions in society and can help promote the philosophies espoused here via their public image.

3. Prominent people in society who aren't members here come to the same conclusions and end up inadvertently promoting the boglehead philosophy via their public image.

Edit: I'm also not convinced that the low cost and index fund philosophy is actually best for attempting to amass an extremely large amount of wealth such as the 100's of millions. There are other things at play, usually private equity investment opportunities that aren't available to the public via index funds, such as angel investing. Bogleheads will get you to a happy, comfortable, rich retirement, but won't make you extremely wealthy. You can't get to that level of wealth simply by taking on more risk with a higher EV. Just my opinion.
True. Most extremely wealthy folks started a business. were involved in a successful start-up at an early stage and cashed out after the IPO, or inherited the family fortune. A few became CEO's of large corporations. However, for the vast majority of the "unwashed masses", the Boglehead philosophy will help get them to a very comfortable retirement.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

assumer
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by assumer » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:06 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:True. Most extremely wealthy folks started a business. were involved in a successful start-up at an early stage and cashed out after the IPO, or inherited the family fortune. A few became CEO's of large corporations. However, for the vast majority of the "unwashed masses", the Boglehead philosophy will help get them to a very comfortable retirement.
I agree 100%. This is the best advice for 99.9% of people.

However, I personally want to try for that opportunity now so I am taking things that I learn here with a grain of salt. Some things will always be true, but I am probably much less diversified than bogleheads would advise, simply because I want to try to go big while I am unencumbered by obligations and dependents.

That said, as the accountant pointed out, there are some general philosophies such as simplicity, low tax burdens, etc., which are going to be true no matter what the avenue.

chaz
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by chaz » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:12 pm

The Boglehead philosophy did help get me to a very comfortable retirement. DW and I thank Mr. Bogle and Vanguard.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

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Watty
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by Watty » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:34 pm

A tip for the younger and/or newer members; Once you know even a little bit you can learn a lot by trying to explain what you do know to someone that is even newer than yourself. I find that trying consider a topic from some another persons different situation often gives me more insight into how that topic affects my situation and writing it down instead of just thinking about it also helps reinforce what I do know. Sometimes a response to a post you make will point out something that was incorrect or had implications you did not consider and that is a good way to learn too.

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slow n steady
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by slow n steady » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:20 am

Sents wrote:+1. As a young man in his mid 20's, I wholeheartedly agree.
Agreed. I am definitely a lurker but I have learned a lot from this forum.

Professor Emeritus
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by Professor Emeritus » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:14 am

In 1977 I was a brand new member of the faculty in Consumer Economics (I taught consumer safety law there before I moved to Engineering) and was one of the last with the option of the old DB or the DC option. we had "financial advisors" tell us how wonderful the DC system was. I ran the numbers, by hand and it was one of the most bogus piles of crap I ever heard. I wrote a memo to the department that said "if we taught this crap we would be laughed out of town." Not a single member of the department opted for the switch. I got a thank you note a few years ago from a retired colleague. She was amazed that the department's economists had not seen the flaw in the model presented.

The key was the way academic salaries develop. Academics spend 10-15 years from age 30 at relatively low pay.
Academics do not have the well paid early years that are used by those promoting the benefits of compounding. They are still in training. It takes longer to train a research academic than any other profession.

The big pay increase is when you become a full Professor about age 45 , but many people don't and even those who do have their prime earning years between 50 and 60. That is also when they can sometimes move from 9 to 12 month contracts. The DB pension system was designed to provide a decent fraction of your final salary in your early 60s. That was designed to encourage senior professors to take emeritus status

The Model we were shown simply took the final salary and assumed that salary growth was constant over the years. It then applied some fairly aggressive assumptions about rate of return. and then assumed a very high rate of return when retirees bought annuities. It also assumed retirement at 65 or later.

But it had no risk analysis . there were no "worst case scenarios" no hyper inflation no depression. All the risk was on the faculty but only the rosy presentations were given.

I learned a lot from the experience. Smart trained people miss elephants in the road. Financial advisers are snake oil salesmen. An you must always do your own analysis.

All this at a time when I did not have an investment penny to my name
Last edited by Professor Emeritus on Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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nedsaid
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by nedsaid » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:16 am

I very much enjoyed reading the original post in this thread by assumer.

I am now 55 years old and to my surprise I am much the same person that I was 30 years ago. I also wonder when I am going to get all this wisdom that age is supposed to give you. Unfortunately, a person can be as much of a fool at 80 as he or she was at 20. It depends on if you have the humility to assume responsibility for your mistakes and to learn from them.

What age gives you is life experience and perspective. The smart people who learn from their mistakes and the mistakes of others develop wisdom. You get to a point that you have been around long enough that what seems "new" to a young person is an issue that came up 20 years ago. You see that there are cycles. You understand more and more the foibles of human nature. And hopefully over time you accumulate knowledge as well.

You don't have to be young to learn from this forum. I discovered Bogleheads a few years ago and I have learned a lot here even though I am in my fifties. I am still learning and maybe someday I will get investing and personal finance right.
A fool and his money are good for business.

assumer
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by assumer » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:21 am

nedsaid wrote:I very much enjoyed reading the original post in this thread by assumer.
Thank you for the compliment.
nedsaid wrote:What age gives you is life experience and perspective. The smart people who learn from their mistakes and the mistakes of others develop wisdom. You get to a point that you have been around long enough that what seems "new" to a young person is an issue that came up 20 years ago. You see that there are cycles. You understand more and more the foibles of human nature. And hopefully over time you accumulate knowledge as well.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and while a lot of people revere the excitement and energy of youth, of which I am in the midsts and enjoying to the maximum extent possible, I can imagine that having pretty much a lifetime of experience under your belt can result in a quiet calm. Seeing the trends in society over a lifetime. Seeing people get duped into things, falling and picking themselves up at different points in their lives.

I can imagine that as you get older, you develop emotions and experiences that younger people can't imagine, such as the calm or lack of anxiety that comes from hindsight, and the feeling of nostalgia, which someone my age can only glimpse, and perhaps the pride of a child succeeding.

Oh, and p.s., I'm pretty sure some of the older heavy hitter members on here would say you're still young and have lots to learn even in your 50's :wink:

HAMnEGGr
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by HAMnEGGr » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:30 am

I agree. Thank you to all.

Calm Man
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Re: A Big Thank You After Visiting Accountant

Post by Calm Man » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:55 pm

OP, your observations are much appreciated I am sure by the people who provide wisdom here. I can tell you that I did not find the site until I was older and learned plenty as well. But you can indeed pay the older folks back and with dividends. Remaining apolitical and not wishing to get anything locked, I will ask you what I asked a group of 20 & 30 somethings at the pool today: My generation has totally botched almost everything. Please fix it. So in essence, assisting others spans generational platforms and I am counting on younger folks like you to continue the sharing....

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