Master Thread for Philadelphia PA Area Bogleheads Chapter

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:12 am

[Threads combined and retitled as "Master Thread for Philadelphia PA Area Bogleheads Chapter" --admin LadyGeek]

We will meet at 11 AM at Champps in King of Prussia. 330 Goddard Blvd.

PM me with any questions.

New members welcome!

If you are planning on attending, please post a reply to this post so I know it won't be just me.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:17 pm

bumping

grabiner · Post by **grabiner** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:55 pm

I'll be there.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:50 pm

OK I have positive responses from 4 individuals so we are up to at least 5, maybe more. So we will hold the meeting.

I am looking for volunteers to lead a short discussion on a topic of interest. I am prepared to talk about annuities (the bad kind) and how to extricate yourself from one or more (I am helping a relative do just that). That can be a fall back topic if no one steps forward with something better. Perhaps grabiner would talk about tax efficient investing?

I will also be asking who intends to attend the national meeting in October and is willing to volunteer as I expect they will be contacting me at some point looking for local volunteers to assist at registration, etc.

See you all at Champps at 11 am on Saturday 12 May.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Thu May 10, 2012 7:36 am

Bumping to alert everyone to chapter meeting this coming Saturday.

gnosis · Post by **gnosis** » Thu May 10, 2012 8:36 am

Ohhh if I didn't have guests visiting me all weekend, I would love to meet some local Bogleheads for the first time! Will plan to be at the next one...

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Thu May 10, 2012 2:52 pm

gnosis wrote: Ohhh if I didn't have guests visiting me all weekend, I would love to meet some local Bogleheads for the first time! Will plan to be at the next one...

Send me a PM with your email address and I will make sure you get added to our email distribution list.

Post by **LadyGeek** » Thu May 10, 2012 8:26 pm

Can you bring them to the meeting? It's a 2 minute walk to the King of Prussia Mall, which was the largest mall in the country (until the Mall of America in Minnesota). You can drop them off there.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sun May 13, 2012 10:00 am

Well we had a nice meeting, there were 6 of us in attendance from 3 states (PA NJ DE).

dickenjb led a discussion on fixed deferred annuities and what he has learned from trying to advise a family friend who was sold 7 of them. Many options including keeping them, surrender, partial surrender, 1035 exchange, and annuitization.

grabiner led a discussion on tax aspects of owning mutual funds. I always learn something from speaking with grabiner and this was no exception. We learned why small cap funds and value funds throw off more cap gains distributions than growth and large cap. (It is because if a SC stock does well, it becomes a large cap and must be sold; whereas if a LC stock becomes a SC it also must be sold but there is no gain. Same situation for value stocks - if they become growth stocks they will have to be sold at a gain). grabiner also discussed a more tax efficient way to own TISM by buying two open ended funds and an ETF. He referenced a thread and a wiki page, maybe he can post links.

The group plans to meet again in September before BH11. I will try to get the date set within the next few weeks.

linuxizer · Post by **linuxizer** » Sun May 13, 2012 10:23 am

LadyGeek wrote:Can you bring them to the meeting? It's a 2 minute walk to the King of Prussia Mall, which was the largest mall in the country (until the Mall of America in Minnesota). You can drop them off there.

Still the largest mall in the country. Circuses don't count.

Sorry I missed it. Have a newborn so time is scarce!

Post by **LadyGeek** » Sun May 13, 2012 10:31 am

linuxizer wrote:Sorry I missed it. Have a newborn so time is scarce!

Congratulations!!

Here's the wiki page: Principles of Tax-Efficient Fund Placement

grabiner · Post by **grabiner** » Sun May 13, 2012 3:09 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
linuxizer wrote:Sorry I missed it. Have a newborn so time is scarce!
Congratulations!!

Here's the wiki page: Principles of Tax-Efficient Fund Placement

And the thread: Tax-managed funds are now more attractive, comparing the tax-managed funds to the conventional index counterparts.

linuxizer · Post by **linuxizer** » Tue May 15, 2012 8:17 am

Thanks for the links. It's great that our chapter has become so good about producing wiki pages!

DartThrower · Post by **DartThrower** » Tue May 15, 2012 12:04 pm

The meeting was fun and interesting as always. Just as important as the information conveyed is the subtle encouragement that a face-to-face meeting provides to stay the course in our investments. Well done dickenjb and grabiner!

I'd also like to add congratulations to linuxizer. Way to go man!

Hope everyone has a great summer.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:39 pm

At Champps King of Prussia, 11 AM. We will meet for lunch and be done by 1 pm.

New members welcome.

http://champps.com/restaurantinfo.aspx? ... of-prussia

prk · Post by **prk** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:17 pm

ever meet in downtown Philly?

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:35 pm

prk wrote:ever meet in downtown Philly?

Not since I took over as Chapter Coordinator. I believe we did meet at Penn once or twice when there was a talk of interest going on at the same time?

Parking is a problem with downtown.

JDCPAEsq · Post by **JDCPAEsq** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:39 pm

prk wrote:ever meet in downtown Philly?

Don't they still call it "Center City"?

John

goalie · Post by **goalie** » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:48 pm

I was looking forward to the next PHL meeting, but I have a business meeting 11/10/12 at the same time. I look forward to making the next one. Chip

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:35 pm

goalie wrote:I was looking forward to the next PHL meeting, but I have a business meeting 11/10/12 at the same time. I look forward to making the next one. Chip

We have tentatively set the date for the next meeting as the day before the Super Bowl (Feb 2nd) which also happens to be Groundhog Day.

Chip/Goalie, are you on my email distribution list? If not PM me with your email address.

prk · Post by **prk** » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:33 pm

try center city!

please!

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:00 am

We will meet at 11 AM at Champps Sports Bar in King of Prussia.

Agenda will be:

1) Introductions
2) I will lead a discussion on the major changes under ATRA
3) Possible 2nd discussion topic if someone steps forward with an idea
4) Discuss key learnings on chapter best practices gleaned from Wash DC group
5) Adjourn

We should finish around 1 PM. As it is Groundhog Day, I will try to guard against a recursive agenda (<joke> with apologies to Bill Murray).

330 Goddard Boulevard King of Prussia, PA 19406
(610) 491-8001

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:18 am

Agenda has been finalized:

Agenda will be:

1) Introductions
2) I will lead a discussion on the major changes under ATRA
3) Is Bond diversification as important as stock diversification? (dartthrower)
4) Discuss key learnings on chapter best practices gleaned from Wash DC group
5) Adjourn

Hope to see you there!

peatnick · Post by **peatnick** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:04 pm

Nice to meet everyone there today, look forward to the next!

linuxuser · Post by **linuxuser** » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:30 pm

Is the meeting always in King of Prussia or does the location vary?

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:28 am

linuxuser,

When Dartthrower was the coordinator I believe a few meetings were held at U Penn in Philadelphia.

I have been holding all meetings at the same place, Champps in King of Prussia.

Our last meeting had very good attendance and attracted BH's from Montgomery County, Bucks County, Lehigh Valley and Princeton NJ.

KOP is right off the turnpike and Route 202 and served by SEPTA so accessible to all points and offers free parking.

I am certainly open to moving to another venue if I am convinced it would be a better site for the majority.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:51 am

We had very good attendance, 8 individuals. Additionally it was a diverse group including younger Bogleheads, some mid career BH's, some close to retirement, some retired.

After introductions and name tags, we dove into the agenda.

Dickenjb gave an overview of the new tax code under ATRA and went over a Powerpoint he had prepared as well as directed attendees to a very useful resource from CCH. Fairmark was also mentioned as a good resource.

Dartthrower led a discussion on "Bond Diversification - Is It As Important As Stock DIversification?" from a recent thread of the same title. This led to a lively discussion on all things bonds with the general conclusion of the group that diversification on the bond side was less important than on the equity side especially if one kept to safer issues like treasurys and agency bonds. The concept of duration was also discussed.

Dickenjb spoke on what he had learned from speaking with Rager1 about what made the DC chapter so successful. Key points were:

1) Same meeting place every time
2) Same "date" (in the case of DC, 3rd Sunday of odd months) - so members could plan to attend
3) No food purchase required
4) At the end of the meeting, ask for 3 or 4 topics members want to hear discussed at next meeting

Folks were in general agreement that these concepts applied and we thought quarterly meetings would be OK for us. Dickenjb to propose a meeting schedule for the remainder of 2013 once the date of BH12 is known.

Topics suggested for future meetings were collected:

1) Managing investments for the next generation
2) a topic to be presented by Dr Wade Pfau who is joining our group
3) "Lessons learned on retirement" - yours truly was asked to speak on what he has learned 2.5 years into retirement, what I did right, what I would have done differently
4) College funding

I will be getting proposed dates out for the remainder of 2013 shortly. As always, if you wish your email to be added to our notification list, send me a PM with your email address, first name and last name (or at least last initial) and I will add you to the email list.

Calm Man · Post by **Calm Man** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:48 am

Dickenjb, although the question may sound stupid, is the Philly meeting in Philly or in a suburb? I am in NJ but from what I can tell we don't have a chapter there (or in NYC).

Post by **LadyGeek** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:54 pm

I was at the meeting. It's adjacent to the King of Prussia Mall, which is at the Valley Forge exit of the PA Turnpike.

Calm Man · Post by **Calm Man** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:21 pm

Thanks Lady Geek

runner9 · Post by **runner9** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:53 pm

dickenjb wrote: 2) a topic to be presented by Dr Wade Pfau who is joining our group

What a lucky group you are

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:10 am

Our meetings will be held quarterly on the 2nd Saturday of months 2/5/8/11. November meeting *may* be moved due to Veterans Day falling that Monday the 11th.

We meet at Champp's King of Prussia:

330 Goddard Blvd
King of Prussia, PA 19406
Phone: 610-491-8001 Fax: 610-491-8128
Located at the King of Prussia Mall at the intersection of Goddard and Mall boulevards
Easy access by car or public transit from Center City or elsewhere

Meetings begin at 11 AM, those who wish to order lunch do, and we conclude by 1 pm or so.

Here are the topics attendees suggested at our February meeting:

1) Managing investments for the next generation
2) a topic to be presented by Dr Wade Pfau who is joining our group
3) "Lessons learned on retirement" - yours truly was asked to speak on what he has learned 2.5 years into retirement, what I did right, what I would have done differently
4) College funding

I am willing to present on the retirement topic (#3) and have already begun to collect my thoughts.

Looking for a volunteer to develop one other topic (either from the list or a topic of your own choosing).

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:42 am

Dr Wade Pfau has volunteered to present a topic TBD. Will either be on the Vanguard Retirement Seminar he is attending on April 30th or on some of his world class retirement research.

So the topics are:

Topic TBD by Dr Wade Pfau (topic will be announced here after he has attended April 30th Vanguard seminar)
Lessons learned 2.5 years into retirement by dickenjb

I realize the retirement heavy theme of this meeting might be a little far removed for some of our younger attendees. We'll try to address that in the next meeting with some topics of more interest to all. I will also try to include in my talk things I did in my 20's and 30's that positioned me to retire at 55. Also we will continue the practice of soliciting ideas and volunteers for future topics at the meeting close so come prepared with thoughts on what you'd like to hear (or better yet, prepare to lead a discussion on!)

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Thu May 02, 2013 6:23 am

OK here is our agenda:

"Lessons Learned after 2.5 years of Retirement" - led by dickenjb

"Efficient Frontier for Retirement Income" - led by wade

Suggestions for topics for future meetings - all

Looking forward to our meeting May 11th.

Post by **LadyGeek** » Fri May 10, 2013 1:57 pm

For background info, Wade Pfau is forum member wade. His bio is in the wiki: Wade Pfau

Dan999 · Post by **Dan999** » Fri May 10, 2013 3:32 pm

We are so fortunate to have him as a guest speaker tomorrow.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sat May 11, 2013 2:22 pm

Well for those of you who missed it this was an epic meeting. I lost count of attendees (they just kept coming in!) but I believe we had 14 attendees which certainly qualifies as the biggest group since I took the helm.

The agenda was covered as published, with some lively side discussions on dementia, TIPS, LT Care Insurance, and the future of Social Security (which can not be discussed here on the forum but can at our chapter meetings!).

LadyGeek and grabiner were recognized in person for their each achieving the 10K post milestone.

Topics suggested for future meetings were:

Health Insurance - bridging the gap between retirement commencement and Medicare

Pros and cons of paying down debt vs investing

Our next meeting will be August 10th. One of the issues up for discussion at that time is whether to reschedule the November 9th meeting due to it falling on a holiday weekend.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:29 am

We will be meeting at the usual venue, Champps at 11 AM.

Looking for two volunteers to present a topic of general interest.

PM me to let me know you will be attending or interested in leading a discussion topic.

If you are in the Philly area, interested in attending our quarterly meetings, and did not just get an email from me, PM me to be added to the email distribution list. We are no longer using Yahoo groups to manage our email list ( I am maintaining in Gmail now).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

330 Goddard Blvd
King of Prussia, PA 19406
Phone: 610-491-8001 Fax: 610-491-8128
Located at the King of Prussia Mall at the intersection of Goddard and Mall boulevards
Easy access by car or public transit from Center City or elsewhere

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:45 pm

Two folks have volunteered to lead discussion topics so we have an agenda now.

1) Introductions

2) High Yield Bonds (led by LadyGeek)

3) Morningstar tools (led by DartThrower)

4) Discussion of topics for future meetings

5) Should we move the date of the Nov 9 meeting (since following Monday is a bank holiday)?

Please try to arrive on time, we will start promptly at 11 AM.

Post by **LadyGeek** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:19 pm

This is a reminder for the upcoming meeting on Saturday, 10 August.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:53 pm

We had 9 attendees for our 8/10 meeting.

LadyGeek lead a very interesting discussion on High Yield bonds. Over a 20 year period studied, they did not add return to a 60/40 equity/bond portfolio when compared to treasuries but did add risk as measured by standard deviation of quarterly portfolio returns.

DartThrower lead a discussion on Morningstar tools, focused on portfolio X ray and Growth Charts.

Topics proposed for nest meeting include Behavioral FInance, Health Care (including HDHP, Obamacare, medicare/medigap/advantage).

It was decided to keep the next meeting as the 2nd Saturday of November. i.e. Nov 9th at 11 AM.

Post by **LadyGeek** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:10 pm

I briefly noted that Wade Pfau's paper was in mentioned a consumer-oriented website, Lifehacker. See: How Much You Should Save for Retirement, Based on 139 Years of Data

It's a rehash from an article in CNN Money, but I thought it was interesting to see it mentioned here.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:18 am

We will meet at 11 AM at the usual venue (below)

Agenda is a little light but enough people emailed me that they wanted to get together anyway.

We will go around the table and those who attended BH12 will speak about their top 2 or 3 takeaways or key learnings from the annual reunion.

Amy wants to talk about AA tools and I will be prepared to talk about Vanguard Portfolio Watch, Morningstar Portfolio X Ray and Fidelity Fullview. Isn't there an Excel template somewhere on our site?

Sue said she might prepare a topic.

I am sure we will have plenty of ad hoc things to discuss.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

330 Goddard Blvd
King of Prussia, PA 19406
Phone: 610-491-8001 Fax: 610-491-8128
Located at the King of Prussia Mall at the intersection of Goddard and Mall boulevards
Easy access by car or public transit from Center City or elsewhere

grabiner · Post by **grabiner** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:47 am

dickenjb wrote: Isn't there an Excel template somewhere on our site?

There are links to several spreadsheets on the wiki: Using a spreadsheet to maintain a portfolio

Post by **LadyGeek** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:05 pm

This is a reminder for the upcoming meeting, which is tomorrow.

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:28 pm

Despite not having a formal agenda, we had a very nice meeting with 7 attendees. Spent some time discussing BH12 and key points taken away as a majority of us had attended. Also discussed AA tools and tax adjusted asset allocation, TIPS and I bonds, plus various political topics that can't be mentioned on the forum.

Next meeting is scheduled for Sat, Feb 8 but will need to be rescheduled as I have a conflict. I will poll likely attendees after the holidays for a date that works for the majority.

Post by **LadyGeek** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:22 pm

The topics that can't be mentioned here had an international aspect, which was very educational. I appreciated the discussion.

The I-Bond discussion also mentioned that the wiki might not be correct on the amount available for purchase using your tax refund: Purchase With Your IRS Tax Refund:

Wiki wrote:You can purchase an additional $5,000 in paper I Bonds per Social Security number using your IRS tax refund.

The suggestion was to change per Social Security number to per return, which has implications for those with Married Filing Jointly status. I found the reference on the TreasuryDirect site How much can I buy?:

Treasury Direct wrote:Note: In any one year, for any one Social Security Number, you can buy $10,000 per year in electronic I Bonds.

(For paper I bonds bought with your IRS tax refund, you can buy up to $5,000 per year, per Social Security Number).

As referenced, the wiki is correct. If anyone finds a different reference which changes the statement, please post here (or better: Suggestions for the Wiki) so we can correct the error.

Someone was interested in what the paper I-Bonds look like: What Paper I Savings Bonds Look Like

dickenjb · Post by **dickenjb** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:02 pm

LadyGeek wrote:The I-Bond discussion also mentioned that the wiki might not be correct on the amount available for purchase using your tax refund: Purchase With Your IRS Tax Refund:

Wiki wrote:You can purchase an additional $5,000 in paper I Bonds per Social Security number using your IRS tax refund.
The suggestion was to change per Social Security number to per return, which has implications for those with Married Filing Jointly status. I found the reference on the TreasuryDirect site How much can I buy?:

Treasury Direct wrote:Note: In any one year, for any one Social Security Number, you can buy $10,000 per year in electronic I Bonds.

(For paper I bonds bought with your IRS tax refund, you can buy up to $5,000 per year, per Social Security Number).
As referenced, the wiki is correct. If anyone finds a different reference which changes the statement, please post here (or better: Suggestions for the Wiki) so we can correct the error.

Someone was interested in what the paper I-Bonds look like: What Paper I Savings Bonds Look Like

Here is the link to IRS Form 8888 which only allows you to buy up to $5000 of paper I bonds per Form 8888. And you can only file one Form 8888 per return. Unless my CPA and I missed something, that limits you to $5000 per return. $5000 per SSN if you file MFS. $2500 per SSN if you (like most married couples) file MFJ. The instructions clearly state that lines 4, 5a and 6a cannot exceed $5000 or your refund amount, whichever is smaller.

Perhaps Treasury Direct is simply wrong. Or perhaps one can file two Forms 8888 with a single 1040, but I doubt it.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8888.pdf

And to answer Amy's question from the meeting, it looks like the $5000 can be divvied up between up to three different people.

Post by **LadyGeek** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 7:12 pm

Now I see what you mean, and I've asked for assistance to update the wiki article.

Also discussed:

grabiner was unable to attend the Philly chapter meeting due to a personal obligation. We conveyed the status of his recent home purchase in the Washington D.C. area, which will be documented in a forthcoming thread. He will return to the Bogleheads D.C. chapter for future meetings. (Thanks for everything you've done.)

One of the members lamented achieving a significant age noted in: Checklist of important retirement dates

grabiner · Post by **grabiner** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:49 pm

LadyGeek wrote:Also discussed:

grabiner was unable to attend the Philly chapter meeting due to a personal obligation. We conveyed the status of his recent home purchase in the Washington D.C. area, which will be documented in a forthcoming thread. He will return to the Bogleheads D.C. chapter for future meetings. (Thanks for everything you've done.)

And thanks to all of you as well; I'll keep in touch with the Philly chapter in case I happen to be in Pennsylvania when you meet. (I am moving about 120 miles from the regular meeting place, so I won't be able to join you regularly.)