Non-persistent login

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sscritic
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Non-persistent login

Post by sscritic » Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:33 pm

Here is my problem:

1) I want to respond to a post so I click on reply.
2) A login request appears.
3) I login*
4) I compose my post
5) I click on preview (I always preview).
6) I get a message that I can't preview in this forum without logging in
7) I login a second time
8) I am taken to a compose window, but everything I have written is no longer there.

I have learned to click back on my browser at step 6. I can then copy my post so I won't have to write it a second time. When I am on that screen, I can double check in the upper right that I was indeed logged in while I was composing.

* Sometimes when I login, I am taken to a compose window, but sometimes I am taken back to the "index," so that I have to find the post I intended to respond to and start again by clicking on reply for a second time. This is a minor problem compared to the disappearance of my newly composed post, but is annoying nonetheless. This may depend on whether I am quoting or replying.

P.S. I am not sure if this is on both my computers or just one. With two problems and two computers, I am not sure about which of the four possible combinations are in play. Actually, with the quote vs reply issue I think is there, there are eight combinations. [Maybe not eight, but enough that I can't keep track without a spreadsheet.]

Default User BR
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by Default User BR » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:35 pm

I used to run into that, but I don't anymore as long as I select "keep me logged in" or whatever it is. I suspect that requires cookies to work, so you might check your cookie settings.



Brian

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LadyGeek
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:09 pm

Yes, you need cookies enabled. I suggest adding bogleheads.org to a cookie "whitelist" rather than enabling all cookies.

However, checking the "Keep me logged in" box at login will solve the problem on both computers. Don't ask why this question is there, as I didn't write the software and I see it on other forums.

The back button may confuse the software, hence an additional request to re-login, or perhaps an occasional error message about an invalid form (which I've seen).
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sscritic
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by sscritic » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:44 pm

LadyGeek wrote:Yes, you need cookies enabled. I suggest adding bogleheads.org to a cookie "whitelist" rather than enabling all cookies.

However, checking the "Keep me logged in" box at login will solve the problem on both computers. Don't ask why this question is there, as I didn't write the software and I see it on other forums.

The back button may confuse the software, hence an additional request to re-login, or perhaps an occasional error message about an invalid form (which I've seen).
I have "Accept cookies: * Only from sites I visit (Block cookies from third parties and advertisers)"
[I bet LadyGeek knows my browser.]

I don't leave myself logged in any place; I also don't let my browser store passwords for me. I want to login when I want to login and provide the password from inside my brain at that time.

My cookie list shows five cookies for .bogleheads.org, three for phpbb3_hrsjn_?, one for vgdh_id_data, and one for style_cookie. All but one are set to expire one year from now (the time stamp is roughly 8 minutes ago).


I don't use the back button until I hit the "you have to login a second time" message, so the back button should not be the reason I get the second login request.

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:35 pm

sscritic wrote:My cookie list shows five cookies for .bogleheads.org, three for phpbb3_hrsjn_?, one for vgdh_id_data, and one for style_cookie. All but one are set to expire one year from now (the time stamp is roughly 8 minutes ago).
When was the last time you cleared out your cookies? The vgdh_id_data may be from before the upgrade - I don't have one of those. If you visit the wiki, you'll get a whole lot more.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by sscritic » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:37 pm

Is there an automatic logoff after a certain time? If there is, what activity resets the timer? If I stay in the compose window for 15 minutes, will I be timed out? I am just throwing out guesses here.

Some of my replies are long and detailed, and it might take me some time in the middle of composing one to go look up something in the code of federal regulations. Is it possible I am logged in when I start composing but logged out by the time I finish?

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by gkaplan » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:40 pm

What's a cookie whitelist?
Gordon

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by sscritic » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:44 pm

Some browsers allow you to say "these are good guys, the ones in the white hats," accept their cookies. Some browsers allow you to say "these are bad guys, the ones in the black hats," reject their cookies. Some might allow both types of lists.

A whitelist is just the opposite of a blacklist.

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by retiredjg » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:46 pm

sscritic wrote:Some of my replies are long and detailed, and it might take me some time in the middle of composing one to go look up something in the code of federal regulations. Is it possible I am logged in when I start composing but logged out by the time I finish?
This has not been a problem for me. Sometimes it takes me more than an hour to finish a reply.

gkaplan
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by gkaplan » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:49 pm

I couldn't figure out how to do that in Firefox, but maybe I didn't try hard enough.
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:08 pm

No problem, here's how:

Preferences --> Privacy Tab --> History --> Firefox will Use Custom Settings for History (drop-down selection) --> Exceptions (right side) --> bogleheads.org (type in address of website) --> Allow, Close.

Be sure that the Accept Cookies from sites is unchecked, or it will let everyone in.
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dratkinson
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by dratkinson » Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:35 am

Some third party utilities, like CCleaner, also need to have a cookie added to its whitelist.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by Duckie » Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:20 pm

sscritic wrote:Is there an automatic logoff after a certain time? If there is, what activity resets the timer? If I stay in the compose window for 15 minutes, will I be timed out? I am just throwing out guesses here.

Some of my replies are long and detailed, and it might take me some time in the middle of composing one to go look up something in the code of federal regulations. Is it possible I am logged in when I start composing but logged out by the time I finish?
Bogleheads seems to log me out after about 30 minutes of inactivity. If I have a long reply to type, I type it in my notepad section so I don't lose anything, and every 10 minutes or so I click on another page in Bogleheads just to keep me logged on.

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:37 pm

Duckie wrote:Bogleheads seems to log me out after about 30 minutes of inactivity. If I have a long reply to type, I type it in my notepad section so I don't lose anything, and every 10 minutes or so I click on another page in Bogleheads just to keep me logged on.
Be sure you check the box marked "Log me on automatically each visit" when you login. It's the 2nd choice above the "Login" button. That should fix it. Using notepad is always a good idea.
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sscritic
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by sscritic » Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:58 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Duckie wrote:Bogleheads seems to log me out after about 30 minutes of inactivity. If I have a long reply to type, I type it in my notepad section so I don't lose anything, and every 10 minutes or so I click on another page in Bogleheads just to keep me logged on.
Be sure you check the box marked "Log me on automatically each visit" when you login. It's the 2nd choice above the "Login" button. That should fix it. Using notepad is always a good idea.
To me, this doesn't answer the question. I don't want to be automatically logged in; I want to choose my time and place. Automatic logins or external editors are workarounds. I would just like to know if there is a timeout, and if there is, what is the time. Is it 10 minutes? 15? 30? I am not suggesting that you, LadyGeek, personally come up with the answer, but someone should know. If there is no timeout, then your hint about multiple simultaneous logins may be my problem.

Avoiding the problem doesn't help anyone discover the root causes.

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mas
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by mas » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:23 pm

sscritic wrote:Is there an automatic logoff after a certain time?
Yes. There is a configuration setting called "Session Length":
http://www.phpbb.com/support/documentat ... erver_load

I'm not sure what the default value is (potentially 1 hour), nor what setting is configured on Bogleheads.
sscritic wrote:If there is, what activity resets the timer?
Basically any request back to the server. I would suggest periodically pressing the "Preview" button, or maybe "Save draft". Duckie's technique would work as well. Simply typing in the text box and using the formatting toolbar would not send any request back to the server.
sscritic wrote:If I stay in the compose window for 15 minutes, will I be timed out?
I'm not sure whether the timeout is set to 15 minutes or less, but that could certainly happen.
sscritic wrote:Some of my replies are long and detailed, and it might take me some time in the middle of composing one to go look up something in the code of federal regulations. Is it possible I am logged in when I start composing but logged out by the time I finish?
Yes, if you spend a lot of time typing (or not typing), you will certainly be logged out eventually.

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by sscritic » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:30 pm

Thanks mas. That gives me most of the parameters, although the bogleheads setting will have to come from one of the insiders.

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by dratkinson » Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:12 pm

Thankfully, I've not experienced these automatic logout problems (knock wood) and I'm certain I've been online at BH for several hours.

My best guess is your system is working exactly the way it is configured to run. You just have to figure out a way to tell it you didn't mean for it to do it that way: browser setting, BH setting, third-party s/w setting,.... :)



Just a wild guess. Do you open multiple browser windows... instead of multiple browser tabs? I ask because one of my FireFox cookie setting is to keep cookies "until I close the FF browser window". So if I log into BH and open each new topic in a NEW browser window, and closed those windows after reading each topic, then... yes I'd expect every FF window to delete the BH cookie upon closing.

The above could explain your problem. You open topics #1 and #2. You being a reply to topic #1; but take a quick peek at topic #2, decide you have nothing to contribute and close that browser window. Notice your status: you are editing topic #1 (which requires a cookie), but closed topic #2 (which deleted all cookies). So you must login again. Makes sense to me. (This is where the browser white list comes in to prevent this problem.)

Double-check and ensure you don't have that problem: opening multiple browser windows, your browser configured to deleting cookies "whenever the browser window is closed", and no browser white list to protect your BH cookie.

Just my $.02.



Merry Christmas.
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by earlyout » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:44 am

FWIW, I turn on the computer in the morning and start FF. One of the home tabs is set to bogleheads.org. Many days the computer is on for over 12 hours and I have never had bogleheads logout by itself. The BH tab is always there unless I inadvertently happen to close the tab. Even if I leave the thing on over night, BH site is still active in the morning. I don't think there is a time out.

I have bogleheads.org on the cookies whitelist and have checked the box to login me in automatically when I start bogleheads.org. Since no one else has access to the computer, the security issues are acceptable to me.

EO

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mas
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by mas » Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:44 pm

earlyout wrote:I don't think there is a time out.
Yes. It definitely does. Somewhere between 30 min and 2 hrs, based on my test today.
earlyout wrote:FWIW, I turn on the computer in the morning and start FF. One of the home tabs is set to bogleheads.org. Many days the computer is on for over 12 hours and I have never had bogleheads logout by itself. The BH tab is always there unless I inadvertently happen to close the tab. Even if I leave the thing on over night, BH site is still active in the morning.
A session timeout does not close tabs or windows. Nor does it change what is displayed on an already open page. It won't even ask you to log in again, until you try to post or do some other action that requires your user info (viewing discussions does not). It is controlled by the server, so browser settings won't be able to override it. Except...
earlyout wrote:... and have checked the box to login me in automatically when I start bogleheads.org.
Doing this may hide the fact that a timeout has occured. sscritic says that he doesn't want to use this setting.

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by earlyout » Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:16 pm

Interesting comments. Thanks. I'll have to do some testing.

EO

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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by dratkinson » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:15 pm

Ooo! Ooo! I know the answer. :idea:

(1/2) Manually login and check "Log me in automatically each visit". This will bypass the requirement to re-login upon the expiration of the (unknown to me) timeout.

(2/2) Manually logout when you are finished. You must log out, otherwise your next visit to BH and the cookie on your PC will log you in again automatically. (I'm assuming you don't want this to happen for anyone but yourself.)

I've tested above and it seems to work as I believe you want it to work.
--Manually log in at the beginning of your session and allow automatic logins. You will not need to manually login again, even if your session is hours/days long. (I works for me and others above.)
--Manually log out at the end of your session. After you manually log out, the automatic login authorization is revoked and the next visit to BH requires a new login. (Worked for me when tested.)



Okay, what do I win? :D

(Hint: I will gladly accept continuing advice before I do something stupid.)
Last edited by dratkinson on Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sscritic
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Re: Non-persistent login

Post by sscritic » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:19 pm

dratkinson wrote:Ooo! Ooo! I know the answer.

(1/2) Login and check "Log me in automatically each visit". This will bypass the requirement to re-login upon the expiration of the (unknown to me) timeout.

(2/2) Log out when you are finished. You must log out, otherwise your next visit to BH and the cookie on your PC will log you in again automatically. (I'm assuming you don't want this to happen for anyone but yourself.)

I've tested above and it seems to work as I believe you want it to work.
--Manually log in at the beginning of your session and allow automatic logins. You will not need to manually login again, even if your session is hours/days long.
--Manually log out at the end of your session. After you manually log out, the automatic login authorization is revoked and the next visit to BH requires a new login.



Okay, what do I win? :D

(Hint: I will gladly accept continuing advice before I do something stupid.)
You win your very own answer to a question about social security that I won't give to anyone else. That is, I won't give it to anyone else until they ask. :)

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