Reputation points

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torius71
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Reputation points

Post by torius71 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:35 pm

I was on another forum the other day and noticed that each member had something called reputation points. Each members comments can be rated positive (they used to have negative ratings but probably did away with them because it turned into a popularity contest?) if other members feel it was helpful/accurate. These positive reputation points are shown below the members total posts tally and stay with them forever.

They could make it easier for beginners to make sense of conflicting comments. This is mostly done with the "total post" feature right now, but not perfect. It could also help by providing a disincentive to provide "snarky" responses, which others have complained of recently and ultimately decreases participation. Unfortunatly, these "snarky comments don't always decrease with forum seniority. :D It could even make the moderators jobs a little easier by putting in place a peer review process.

Has this been discussed or explored before? Does anyone have any practical experience with these reputation points?


Torius
"A new truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."-MP

sscritic
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Post by sscritic » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:46 pm

If I asked if you had searched for such a previous discussion, would that be considered snarky? If so, then I won't ask.

Try "like button" in the search box in the upper left on bogleheads.org (you should use the quotes).

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marbleous
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Post by marbleous » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:51 pm

And make everything orange too.

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norookie
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Post by norookie » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:14 pm

:peace
Last edited by norookie on Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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WatchinU
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Post by WatchinU » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:21 pm

One of the things I like about this forum is that everyone is civil and respectful of others.

I've seen other forums that allow rating of the responses. The problem is that the comments deteriorate into disrespectful and uncivil comments on the forums that allow ratings of responses. Posters go to great lengths to criticize others on these other forums and rate responses on a red, yellow, or green scale. The comments often go off topic and even the original poster is criticized or accusations are made. who needs that drama?

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Opponent Process
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Re: Reputation points

Post by Opponent Process » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:46 pm

torius71 wrote:They could make it easier for beginners to make sense of conflicting comments.
the most intense conflicts are usually over the small things that don't really matter and should probably be ignored by beginners. don't mistake heat for light. thumbs up and down can't really add validity to either side of these discussions. most people don't even like the "+1" thing.

beginners are usually better served by understanding the site layout, learning the search function, reading the excellent wiki, and reading from the general reading list. sscritic and others are simply trying to increase resourcefulness in beginners. everything's pretty much already been discussed. ten times. the most reputable stuff goes into the wiki and Boglehead guides. ongoing discussions represent the "bleeding edge", not the "cutting edge".
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MekongTrader
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Post by MekongTrader » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:07 pm

I think the 'secret of the success' of this forum is that it is civilized and overall polite in tone thanks to its policies (eg. no politics allowed) and the level-headed approach of its moderators.

Bogleheads = No drama

I think every user who tunes in regularly will make up his own mind about someones reputation.

Reputation points would not be helpful and just be another add-on feature and yes some kind of popularity contest.

Just my 2 cents

MT

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Post by IPTG » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:29 pm

The best implementation of this idea is on Hacker News.

They have both up and down voting with the most popular (ideally the best answer) answers rising to the top. This community sorting can help bring to light comments that can be lost especially in long threads.

A significant change to an existing community is often difficult and would really need the support of long time members.

SP-diceman
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Post by SP-diceman » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:43 pm

If you like the 200 day moving average thread, or the Permanent Portfolio thread, are your reputation points removed? :)


Thanks
SP-diceman

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torius71
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Post by torius71 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:15 am

sscritic wrote:If I asked if you had searched for such a previous discussion, would that be considered snarky? If so, then I won't ask.

Try "like button" in the search box in the upper left on bogleheads.org (you should use the quotes).
It depends. Would it be considered snarky if I said that I read that thread and it's different than my question? :D

Seriously, I think there's a difference between like buttons for threads/posts and reputation points.
"A new truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."-MP

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Post by MWCA » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:48 am

One of the things I like about this forum. It is not like other forums.
We are all worms. But I believe that I am a glow-worm.

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torius71
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Post by torius71 » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:55 am

WatchinU wrote:I've seen other forums that allow rating of the responses. The problem is that the comments deteriorate into disrespectful and uncivil comments on the forums that allow ratings of responses. Posters go to great lengths to criticize others on these other forums and rate responses on a red, yellow, or green scale. The comments often go off topic and even the original poster is criticized or accusations are made. who needs that drama?
I agree, I think reputation comments would be a terrible idea. There is little upside, but an obvious downside. Positive reputation points on the other hand would be mostly lockstep with total posts, but would help distinguish the less frequent fliers. If negative reputation points are prohibited, I can't envision a downside.
"A new truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."-MP

sscritic
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Post by sscritic » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:22 am

torius71 wrote: Seriously, I think there's a difference between like buttons for threads/posts and reputation points.
I agree. One attaches to the particular post and the other to the person, but there are also similarities. If you read the other thread carefully, there were references to "karma." Karma attaches to a person, not a post, so is equivalent to your reputation points. However, on slashdot, karma is not public; others do not see your karma. Karma however gives you certain privileges not generally available, although karma is not that hard to come by. Slashdot does not allow just any user to grade comments (posts), but allows a rotating not-quite-randomly selected set of users to grade the comments. The greater your karma, the more you will be invited to grade. In the end, it is again the rating of the post that is seen publicly, not the rating of the poster.

Given that it is not going to happen in any case, which is more important to you, to read a really good post from someone with no reputation or a bad post from someone with a good reputation? For example, I would say that I have a good reputation, except for my sometime tilt to the snarky side. How does my reputation help you given my first response? Also, no one would take anything I say about asset allocation seriously, but they would consider seriously what I had to say about social security and I bonds or anything involving federal regulations and certain aspects of California law (no, what you know about Nebraska doesn't help with a question about the law in California). My reputation built upon posts on one set of topics should give you no reassurance that my answers on other topics are worth squat.

P.S. But believe me when I say FiOS is spelled with a lower case i.

P.P.S. Without negative points, I would rack up huge numbers of positive points and my snarkiness would never hurt me. Hey, maybe I could go for this system. With 5000 great posts and 5000 absolutely terrible ones, I would still have a better reputation than someone with 2000 great posts. :)

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Post by MidnightX » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:05 am

Noooooo. I feel it is an obligation to contribute to this (or any) community if I believe my comments would be beneficial to someone else. Just as I would hope someone would take the time to comment on or answer a question I post.

But admittedly, although well intended, at times my thoughts are not the best or may even be wrong. Fortunately, others can correct me if needed. I don't think I would ever participate again because it would break my heart getting a thumbs down when all I was trying to do was help. I think now might be a good time to put a disclaimer in my signature. :P

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Kenkat
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Post by Kenkat » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:25 am

Unlike Joan Jett who doesn't "give a damn about my bad reputation", I am sensitive and don't think I want to know if people like my posts or not. I would rather toil away at the computer thinking I am making a contribution than face the possible reality that no one reads what I write or, worse, thinks "not that buffoon again - yammering on and on...". :wink:

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Post by Optimistic » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:33 am

kenschmidt wrote:Unlike Joan Jett who doesn't "give a damn about my bad reputation", I am sensitive and don't think I want to know if people like my posts or not. I would rather toil away at the computer thinking I am making a contribution than face the possible reality that no one reads what I write or, worse, thinks "not that buffoon again - yammering on and on...". :wink:
Like :D

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magellan
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Post by magellan » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:46 am

I'd love it if I could get feedback on which posts people find useful and which are not.

I often spend lots of time on research and analysis for a post. Sometimes, I sense that people think I'm off into the weeds in trivia (eg safety of FDIC vs treasuries), but other times I sense people find the posts useful. Certainly, part of my motivation is just ego, but hopefully a bigger motivation is that I think my posts might actually help someone or that by posting, I'm part of a collaborative effort to increase our understanding of a topic. It'd be great to get positive feedback on those posts that are useful to those ends.

A well designed feedback system could provide encouragement for users to do more of the work it takes to produce meaty and thoughtful posts.

Jim

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MossySF
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Post by MossySF » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:26 am

I'll re-roll my account as a paladin to get a higher reputation bonus

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Post by KyleAAA » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:41 am

I would not support a feature like this. Reputation should not be a factor in any debate. Rather, the arguments should be examined on their own merits. You shouldn't believe something merely because somebody important said it. Having a reputation score would simply encourage people not to think.

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Post by VictoriaF » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:12 pm

MossySF wrote:I'll re-roll my account as a paladin to get a higher reputation bonus
What happened to the Boglehead Paladin? The search indicates that he does not exist!

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Post by Opponent Process » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:25 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
MossySF wrote:I'll re-roll my account as a paladin to get a higher reputation bonus
What happened to the Boglehead Paladin? The search indicates that he does not exist!

Victoria
he was one of the mysterious "Guests". I think Guests are like moderators but from another dimensional plane. they travel in and out of the forum at will.
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Post by Alex Frakt » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:55 pm

For the record...

Perhaps someone will someday devise a system that can't be gamed and provides useful information with no drawbacks, so I won't say we'll never have such a thing. But until then I'm not going to inflict a reputation/vote/thumbs system on our users. Aside from the philosophical problem I have with judging posts by their author rather than their content, all such systems are subject to manipulation that makes them of dubious usefulness. Partly because of this, ratings also lead to endless meta-discussions over the ratings themselves, which further decreases the signal-to-noise ratio.

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Post by Ozonewanderer » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:59 pm

I don't think that investing is so clear cut that the strength of opinions should be mesaured by popularity.

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Post by chaz » Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:06 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
MossySF wrote:I'll re-roll my account as a paladin to get a higher reputation bonus
What happened to the Boglehead Paladin? The search indicates that he does not exist!

Victoria
"Paladin" was a TV series a long time ago.
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VictoriaF
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Post by VictoriaF » Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:54 pm

chaz wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
MossySF wrote:I'll re-roll my account as a paladin to get a higher reputation bonus
What happened to the Boglehead Paladin? The search indicates that he does not exist!

Victoria
"Paladin" was a TV series a long time ago.
I don't have a TV, and I am not a long time ago. I must have dreamed him up.

Victoria
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Post by Fallible » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:24 pm

MWCA wrote:One of the things I like about this forum. It is not like other forums.
Right. It's better.

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torius71
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Post by torius71 » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:16 am

Alex Frakt wrote:For the record...

Perhaps someone will someday devise a system that can't be gamed and provides useful information with no drawbacks, so I won't say we'll never have such a thing. But until then I'm not going to inflict a reputation/vote/thumbs system on our users. Aside from the philosophical problem I have with judging posts by their author rather than their content, all such systems are subject to manipulation that makes them of dubious usefulness. Partly because of this, ratings also lead to endless meta-discussions over the ratings themselves, which further decreases the signal-to-noise ratio.
Thanks, Alex

To be clear, I don't have enough experience with internet forums to feel strongly either way. Yourself and others would know much better than I and that's why I was curious to hear some thoughts. As far as gaming the system, I would imagine a minimum post limit could be implemented to prevent multiple e-mail accounts. I know some people have too much time on their hands, but do they have that much time? (naivety?) In my opinion, the concerns about judging comments by the author in isolation from the content are overblown. The same could be said of the "total post" tally or "date joined" display. Maybe there are some people that only give credence to posts based on seniority, but I think the overwhelming majority understand that would be myopic and self-defeating. At best, it would provide some incremental context to an already healthy conversation, especially for the newer members such as myself.

Anyways, I really don't think it's a big deal either way. Keep up the great work!
sscritic wrote:P.P.S. Without negative points, I would rack up huge numbers of positive points and my snarkiness would never hurt me. Hey, maybe I could go for this system. With 5000 great posts and 5000 absolutely terrible ones, I would still have a better reputation than someone with 2000 great posts. :)
Not necessarily. Members would take notice of the disparity between total posts and reputation points. Regardless, I've been here long enough to know you're selling yourself short and AFAIK Bogleheads don't sell short.:wink:
Fallible wrote:
MWCA wrote:One of the things I like about this forum. It is not like other forums.
Right. It's better.
All things considered, it strikes me as silly to suggest that what makes this forum different is the absence of reputation points.
"A new truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."-MP

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torius71
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Post by torius71 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:53 pm

I know some people have too much time on their hands, but do they have that much time?
After subsequently reading another recent administrative thread, this question may have been answered for me. :(
"A new truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it."-MP

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