Homepage Revamped

Discussions about the forum and contents
Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Homepage Revamped

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:35 am

I just put up the new homepage. There aren't any major changes, but here's the highlights:

- The new navigation links should help new visitors figure out what is going on here more easily. They also help to more fully integrate the wiki into the site.
- I've cleaned up and updated the sidebar and related pages, such as the sites and books pages.
- Search actually works, it runs a google search of the entire site.
- I've finally fixed the issue where posts 51, 101, etc. get missed if you click the little page numbers by the post titles.
- Advanced Search gives you several options for searching different parts of the site, including title-only searches. It's a little bit of a kludge, but a more complete solution will have to wait until I can upgrade the forum software.
- The Support this Site section is the result of my discussions with Larry about this thread http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47178. The recession has been tough on both of us, but we do not want to put ads on the site and a membership fee is completely off the table, so we are going to go with a tip jar and affiliate links and see what happens.
- The dedicated wide version is gone (well it's still there, but it's just a copy of the default version). The default page has everything that was on the wide page except a display of the conversation numbers. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the dedicated narrow version.

Let me know what you think and if there are any problems.

User avatar
Grandpaboys
Posts: 878
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:16 am
Location: Texas

Post by Grandpaboys » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:23 am

What happen to the Post Numbers? Many of us use the Post # to pick up where we left the site and returned.
Good Day | GP

beardsworth
Posts: 2135
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:02 pm

Post by beardsworth » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:14 am

One feature I've often wished was on the homepage––I don't think it's there, or ever has been, unless I've just missed it––is an explicit link for "Contact a Forum Moderator." (I see a "webmaster" e–mail address at the bottom of the home page, but had the understanding that this address was for technical, not policy, issues.) I've only made such moderator contact a few times––after reading something that seemed a violation of forum courtesy or the policy on "forbidden" topics––but in each case the only way I knew to bring it to anyone's attention was to send a PM to Mel or Alex because those were the moderator names I could remember, although I know there are others. Perhaps this link could be done in the "red" text setting out the basic forum policy at the top of the home page? I'd imagine the best–known moderators currently get a "disproportionate" number of these contacts. If a general moderator contact link could be made available, it might also distribute the moderator workload more evenly––a sort of Bogleheads version of "your call will be taken by the next available representative" :)––although I'm not tech–savvy enough to know how this could be done.

In general: Alex, thanks for all you do here. And thanks to the moderators, too. This forum is in incredible resource.

User avatar
Blue
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:18 pm

Post by Blue » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:36 am

Hi Alex,

Thanks for all the good work you and Larry do. This site is amazing and I am truly grateful.

I am happy to contribute but I have no basis in terms of amount. Is there a number you are trying to hit, is there an annual cost per year or something like that? I truly have no idea but want to help.

Thanks,
Blue

User avatar
JMacDonald
Posts: 2146
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:53 pm

Post by JMacDonald » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:30 am

Hi,
Thanks Alex and Larry.

I replaced my bookmark to Amazon with the Amazon Bogleheads link. That way I will not forget to use it when I buy from Amazon.

This forum is definitely worth supporting.
Best Wishes, | Joe

jml39
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:18 pm

Post by jml39 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:05 am

I just sent a PayPal tip for all the great information I learned on this forum since I retired. Consider it the first installment. I buy all my books on Amazon too, so if that's a help, great. Joan

User avatar
ddb
Posts: 5509
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:37 pm
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st St.

Post by ddb » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:12 am

MarcMyWord wrote:One feature I've often wished was on the homepage––I don't think it's there, or ever has been, unless I've just missed it––is an explicit link for "Contact a Forum Moderator." (I see a "webmaster" e–mail address at the bottom of the home page, but had the understanding that this address was for technical, not policy, issues.) I've only made such moderator contact a few times––after reading something that seemed a violation of forum courtesy or the policy on "forbidden" topics––but in each case the only way I knew to bring it to anyone's attention was to send a PM to Mel or Alex because those were the moderator names I could remember, although I know there are others. Perhaps this link could be done in the "red" text setting out the basic forum policy at the top of the home page? I'd imagine the best–known moderators currently get a "disproportionate" number of these contacts. If a general moderator contact link could be made available, it might also distribute the moderator workload more evenly––a sort of Bogleheads version of "your call will be taken by the next available representative" :)––although I'm not tech–savvy enough to know how this could be done.
Moderator List which appears on this forum, including buttons which open a Private Message window for each moderator.

- DDB
"We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern, and less materialism in young people." - PB

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:48 am

Grandpaboys wrote:What happen to the Post Numbers? Many of us use the Post # to pick up where we left the site and returned.
I remember you were the only one who asked for the numbers in the first place, so I'm not that sure about the many of us :-)

I checked your old thread and based on your response to this reply it looks like you don't actually need to see the thread numbers. What you do need is a list of the threads ordered by the date of the first post.

You can still do this by clicking on the word time where is says "First (time, by)" at the top of the post list.

Or just bookmark the following URL:
http://www.bogleheads.org/index_wide.htm?view=5

BTW, if you have the status bar turned on in your browser, as you move the cursor over links, it will show you the link URL. The thread number is the part after the "t=".

I removed the thread numbers for two reasons. First, I've received several complaints that they are confusing and/or clutter up the display to no purpose. Second, and more importantly, without them I can just fit the full display on a 1024 pixel-wide monitor, which is the minimum standard for netbook displays.

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:58 am

MarcMyWord wrote:One feature I've often wished was on the homepage––I don't think it's there, or ever has been, unless I've just missed it––is an explicit link for "Contact a Forum Moderator."
I will work up some sort of contacts page. Meanwhile, if you go to the forum (not the site) homepage by clicking on the "Bogleheads Forum Index" link when you are reading posts, the list of moderators that are currently online is shown on the bottom of the page.

You can also see the full list by clicking the "Usergroups" link at the top of any page, selecting Moderators and clicking the View Information button. Here's a direct link: http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/groupcp.php?g=250.

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:33 am

Blue wrote:Hi Alex,

Thanks for all the good work you and Larry do. This site is amazing and I am truly grateful.

I am happy to contribute but I have no basis in terms of amount. Is there a number you are trying to hit, is there an annual cost per year or something like that? I truly have no idea but want to help.
Direct costs (bandwidth and hardware) are maybe $2-4k per year right now, but that appears to be headed up somewhat. Still it's our time that really adds up, I spend an average of 3 hours a day on the site since we took over the forum, mostly doing boring moderator stuff.

As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years - giving me even more time to devote to the forum. Maybe I can even go back to answering actual questions :-)

If you are looking at a suggested amount for donations... I have no idea, it wasn't my idea to put up the tip jar. Most of the sites I've looked at that use donations seem to prefill it with a suggested $25, which seems a bit presumptuous to me. Perhaps the cost of a good investing book? But anything is OK... Wait a second...

I just checked paypal and so far we've received 3 donations for $10 each. Thanks JM, JL, and DR.

bdavidson
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Homepage Revamped

Post by bdavidson » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:36 am

Alex Frakt wrote:I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the dedicated narrow version.
I use the narrow version to browse the homepage on my mobile device. It isn't terribly pretty on the small screen, but less info to word-wrap than the normal (or former wide) version.

Maybe convert the Narrow version to a more mobile-friendly, Lo-Fi version (no sidebar, fewer posts per page, etc.).

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:46 am

JMacDonald wrote:Hi,
Thanks Alex and Larry.

I replaced my bookmark to Amazon with the Amazon Bogleheads link. That way I will not forget to use it when I buy from Amazon.

This forum is definitely worth supporting.
Wow, thanks. Just be sure you add the bookmark from the link on the homepage. Once you get to Amazon it strips out our referral code. In other words, the URL (link) should read:

Code: Select all

http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fs%3Fie%3DUTF8%26x%3D0%26ref_%3Dnb%255Fss%26y%3D0%26field-keywords%3DBogleheads%26url%3Dsearch-alias%253Daps&tag=bogleheads.org-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=390957
Not:

Code: Select all

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&x=0&ref_=nb_ss&y=0&field-keywords=Bogleheads&url=search-alias%3Daps
The important part is that it has "tag=bogleheads.org-20" in the URL. Here is the shortest bookmarkable link that will work - it takes you to the Amazon.com home page: http://www.amazon.com/s?tag=bogleheads.org-20

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: Homepage Revamped

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:56 am

bdavidson wrote:
Alex Frakt wrote:I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the dedicated narrow version.
I use the narrow version to browse the homepage on my mobile device. It isn't terribly pretty on the small screen, but less info to word-wrap than the normal (or former wide) version.

Maybe convert the Narrow version to a more mobile-friendly, Lo-Fi version (no sidebar, fewer posts per page, etc.).
That's what I was thinking. BTW, in the interim, the posts column should now work as a standalone page in most browsers: http://www.bogleheads.org/getcons.htm

richard
Posts: 7961
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:38 pm
Contact:

Post by richard » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:14 am

Requests:

1) Number each response in a thread, so that we can tell people to see, for example, reply #4 in a thread.

2) An easy way to link to a specific reply. It's possible now to create a link so that a particular reply is the first to appear, but doing so is non-trivial

3) Add a "flag for moderator" button on each post

4) Add an ignore feature for those who want to filter out someone they find annoying

Thanks for all your great work!!

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:58 am

richard wrote:Requests:

1) Number each response in a thread, so that we can tell people to see, for example, reply #4 in a thread.

2) An easy way to link to a specific reply. It's possible now to create a link so that a particular reply is the first to appear, but doing so is non-trivial

3) Add a "flag for moderator" button on each post

4) Add an ignore feature for those who want to filter out someone they find annoying

Thanks for all your great work!!
These are all forum software issues. Upgrading to the latest release of the forum software is my next project. It's non-trivial as we have done a fair amount of customization and we have to integrate everything with our home page.

BTW, you can do #2. The Image icon at the top of each reply is actually a link to that reply. Right click it and select "Copy Shortcut" or "Copy Link Location" to get the link. This may also solve your #1 problem since you can send people directly to the reply you want.

User avatar
ddb
Posts: 5509
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:37 pm
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st St.

Post by ddb » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:04 pm

Alex Frakt wrote:
richard wrote:Requests:

1) Number each response in a thread, so that we can tell people to see, for example, reply #4 in a thread.

2) An easy way to link to a specific reply. It's possible now to create a link so that a particular reply is the first to appear, but doing so is non-trivial

3) Add a "flag for moderator" button on each post

4) Add an ignore feature for those who want to filter out someone they find annoying

Thanks for all your great work!!
These are all forum software issues. Upgrading to the latest release of the forum software is my next project. It's non-trivial as we have done a fair amount of customization and we have to integrate everything with our home page.
Hi Alex:

Out of curiosity, what is the main functional use of the "home page" that doesn't exist just by browsing the actual forums? I don't think I've ever actually used the home page.

What I'm really getting at, I guess, is whether the added effort on your part of maintaining that page is worthwhile.

- DDB
"We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern, and less materialism in young people." - PB

jegallup
Posts: 671
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:34 pm
Location: San Diego

Post by jegallup » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:37 pm

Happy to have to opportunity to make a little donation in exchange for all the help here.

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:43 pm

ddb wrote:Out of curiosity, what is the main functional use of the "home page" that doesn't exist just by browsing the actual forums? I don't think I've ever actually used the home page.

What I'm really getting at, I guess, is whether the added effort on your part of maintaining that page is worthwhile.
Horses for courses. Looking over our site logs, it appears that the large majority of our uses prefer the single list of threads on the homepage to browsing subforum by subforum. I know that there's the View posts since last visit option, but it doesn't work correctly if you log off the site or view it from more than one computer. I also believe that the sidebar info and wiki links are useful, especially to someone coming to the site for the first time.

User avatar
norookie
Posts: 3016
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:55 pm

Post by norookie » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:45 pm

JMacDonald wrote:Hi,
Thanks Alex and Larry.

I replaced my bookmark to Amazon with the Amazon Bogleheads link. That way I will not forget to use it when I buy from Amazon.

This forum is definitely worth supporting.
Me too. Unfortunately this did'nt happen till after xmas considering the Amazon shopping. One question. Im not to web/IT literate and do not PPal. Going to the "donations" area it looks like its PPal only. Am I incorrect........do CCs in fact work :?: Thanks to all involved!
" Wealth usually leads to excess " Cicero 55 b.c

richard
Posts: 7961
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:38 pm
Contact:

Post by richard » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:47 pm

Alex Frakt wrote:BTW, you can do #2. The Image icon at the top of each reply is actually a link to that reply. Right click it and select "Copy Shortcut" or "Copy Link Location" to get the link. This may also solve your #1 problem since you can send people directly to the reply you want.
Excellent! Sorry to have gone off-topic

It doesn't solve my 1st problem - it's easier to say "see Alex's post #4 in this thread" rather than "see Alex's 11:58 am post," especially if people are in different time zones.

Thanks again!

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:49 pm

jegallup wrote:Happy to have to opportunity to make a little donation in exchange for all the help here.
Thank you very much. You have just doubled the size of the average donation to $20 :D

User avatar
JMacDonald
Posts: 2146
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:53 pm

Post by JMacDonald » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:55 pm

Alex Frakt wrote:
JMacDonald wrote:Hi,
Thanks Alex and Larry.

I replaced my bookmark to Amazon with the Amazon Bogleheads link. That way I will not forget to use it when I buy from Amazon.

This forum is definitely worth supporting.
Wow, thanks. Just be sure you add the bookmark from the link on the homepage. Once you get to Amazon it strips out our referral code. In other words, the URL (link) should read:

Code: Select all

http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fs%3Fie%3DUTF8%26x%3D0%26ref_%3Dnb%255Fss%26y%3D0%26field-keywords%3DBogleheads%26url%3Dsearch-alias%253Daps&tag=bogleheads.org-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=390957
Not:

Code: Select all

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&x=0&ref_=nb_ss&y=0&field-keywords=Bogleheads&url=search-alias%3Daps
The important part is that it has "tag=bogleheads.org-20" in the URL. Here is the shortest bookmarkable link that will work - it takes you to the Amazon.com home page: http://www.amazon.com/s?tag=bogleheads.org-20
Hi Alex,
When I click on your Amazon link, this is the URL I get and bookmarked: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&x=0&ref ... lias%3Daps That is the correct link, right? :?
Best Wishes, | Joe

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:58 pm

norookie wrote:One question. Im not to web/IT literate and do not PPal. Going to the "donations" area it looks like its PPal only. Am I incorrect........do CCs in fact work :?: Thanks to all involved!
You can pay with a credit card through Paypal - it's long past the days where you had to fund it from a checking account. It's no more difficult than checking out from a typical online store, in fact Paypal is probably now the number one provider of online credit card processing services to very small businesses.

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:08 pm

JMacDonald wrote:When I click on your Amazon link, this is the URL I get and bookmarked: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&x=0&ref ... lias%3Daps That is the correct link, right? :?
Nope. Right click on this link and select bookmark:
Amazon (from the Bogleheads).

Thanks for pointing this out, I'm going to change the link on the homepage.

User avatar
Mel Lindauer
Moderator
Posts: 28646
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Daytona Beach Shores, Florida
Contact:

Re: Homepage Revamped

Post by Mel Lindauer » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:09 pm

Alex Frakt wrote:
bdavidson wrote:
Alex Frakt wrote:I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the dedicated narrow version.
I use the narrow version to browse the homepage on my mobile device. It isn't terribly pretty on the small screen, but less info to word-wrap than the normal (or former wide) version.

Maybe convert the Narrow version to a more mobile-friendly, Lo-Fi version (no sidebar, fewer posts per page, etc.).
That's what I was thinking. BTW, in the interim, the posts column should now work as a standalone page in most browsers: http://www.bogleheads.org/getcons.htm
That posts column version works much better on my BlackBerry, Alex.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

User avatar
Mel Lindauer
Moderator
Posts: 28646
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Daytona Beach Shores, Florida
Contact:

Post by Mel Lindauer » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:11 pm

ddb wrote:
Alex Frakt wrote:
richard wrote:Requests:

1) Number each response in a thread, so that we can tell people to see, for example, reply #4 in a thread.

2) An easy way to link to a specific reply. It's possible now to create a link so that a particular reply is the first to appear, but doing so is non-trivial

3) Add a "flag for moderator" button on each post

4) Add an ignore feature for those who want to filter out someone they find annoying

Thanks for all your great work!!
These are all forum software issues. Upgrading to the latest release of the forum software is my next project. It's non-trivial as we have done a fair amount of customization and we have to integrate everything with our home page.
Hi Alex:

Out of curiosity, what is the main functional use of the "home page" that doesn't exist just by browsing the actual forums? I don't think I've ever actually used the home page.

What I'm really getting at, I guess, is whether the added effort on your part of maintaining that page is worthwhile.

- DDB
Many of us use it as our homepage, DDB. The major advantage is that it integrates all of the various forums' posts into one sequential listing, rather than making folks go through each individual sub-forum, forum by forum.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

User avatar
JMacDonald
Posts: 2146
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:53 pm

Post by JMacDonald » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:27 pm

Alex Frakt wrote:
JMacDonald wrote:When I click on your Amazon link, this is the URL I get and bookmarked: http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&x=0&ref ... lias%3Daps That is the correct link, right? :?
Nope. Right click on this link and select bookmark:
Amazon (from the Bogleheads).

Thanks for pointing this out, I'm going to change the link on the homepage.
Hi,
I fixed my bookmark.
Best Wishes, | Joe

User avatar
ddb
Posts: 5509
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:37 pm
Location: American Gardens Building, West 81st St.

Post by ddb » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:10 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
ddb wrote:Out of curiosity, what is the main functional use of the "home page" that doesn't exist just by browsing the actual forums? I don't think I've ever actually used the home page.

What I'm really getting at, I guess, is whether the added effort on your part of maintaining that page is worthwhile.
Many of us use it as our homepage, DDB. The major advantage is that it integrates all of the various forums' posts into one sequential listing, rather than making folks go through each individual sub-forum, forum by forum.
Okay, didn't realize it was so widely used. I always figured the point of separate subforums was because they are...well, separate. Having them jumbled into one big list seems like backwards progress to me, but to each his/her own!

- DDB
"We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern, and less materialism in young people." - PB

LesterFreamon
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:19 am

Post by LesterFreamon » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:09 pm

Blue wrote:Hi Alex,

Thanks for all the good work you and Larry do. This site is amazing and I am truly grateful.

I am happy to contribute but I have no basis in terms of amount. Is there a number you are trying to hit, is there an annual cost per year or something like that? I truly have no idea but want to help.
Alex Frakt wrote:Direct costs (bandwidth and hardware) are maybe $2-4k per year right now, but that appears to be headed up somewhat. Still it's our time that really adds up, I spend an average of 3 hours a day on the site since we took over the forum, mostly doing boring moderator stuff.

As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years - giving me even more time to devote to the forum. Maybe I can even go back to answering actual questions :-)

If you are looking at a suggested amount for donations... I have no idea, it wasn't my idea to put up the tip jar. Most of the sites I've looked at that use donations seem to prefill it with a suggested $25, which seems a bit presumptuous to me. Perhaps the cost of a good investing book? But anything is OK... Wait a second...

I just checked paypal and so far we've received 3 donations for $10 each. Thanks JM, JL, and DR.
I guess it was only a matter of time before the powers that be on this forum took the work of so many people and decided to enrich their own pockets.

User avatar
Mel Lindauer
Moderator
Posts: 28646
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Daytona Beach Shores, Florida
Contact:

Post by Mel Lindauer » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:39 pm

LesterFreamon wrote:
Blue wrote:Hi Alex,

Thanks for all the good work you and Larry do. This site is amazing and I am truly grateful.

I am happy to contribute but I have no basis in terms of amount. Is there a number you are trying to hit, is there an annual cost per year or something like that? I truly have no idea but want to help.
Alex Frakt wrote:Direct costs (bandwidth and hardware) are maybe $2-4k per year right now, but that appears to be headed up somewhat. Still it's our time that really adds up, I spend an average of 3 hours a day on the site since we took over the forum, mostly doing boring moderator stuff.

As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years - giving me even more time to devote to the forum. Maybe I can even go back to answering actual questions :-)

If you are looking at a suggested amount for donations... I have no idea, it wasn't my idea to put up the tip jar. Most of the sites I've looked at that use donations seem to prefill it with a suggested $25, which seems a bit presumptuous to me. Perhaps the cost of a good investing book? But anything is OK... Wait a second...

I just checked paypal and so far we've received 3 donations for $10 each. Thanks JM, JL, and DR.
I guess it was only a matter of time before the powers that be on this forum took the work of so many people and decided to enrich their own pockets.
IMO, Lester, that's a very callous and mean-spirited thing to say about a couple of guys who've paid for everything out of their own pocket for about 10 years without asking for a penny. This was a direct result of forum members asking how they could contribute and suggesting ways to do so. And the end result (an unobtrusive link to Amazon.com and a "tip jar" for those who want to contribute) are hardly meant to "enrich their pockets". If they wanted to do that, they could simply load this site up with ads, which they've steadfastly refused to do.

If you find it offensive, you're obviously free to post elsewhere or start your own blog or forum. That just might change your mind.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

LesterFreamon
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:19 am

Post by LesterFreamon » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:50 pm

Mel Lindauer wrote:
LesterFreamon wrote:
Blue wrote:Hi Alex,

Thanks for all the good work you and Larry do. This site is amazing and I am truly grateful.

I am happy to contribute but I have no basis in terms of amount. Is there a number you are trying to hit, is there an annual cost per year or something like that? I truly have no idea but want to help.
Alex Frakt wrote:Direct costs (bandwidth and hardware) are maybe $2-4k per year right now, but that appears to be headed up somewhat. Still it's our time that really adds up, I spend an average of 3 hours a day on the site since we took over the forum, mostly doing boring moderator stuff.

As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years - giving me even more time to devote to the forum. Maybe I can even go back to answering actual questions :-)

If you are looking at a suggested amount for donations... I have no idea, it wasn't my idea to put up the tip jar. Most of the sites I've looked at that use donations seem to prefill it with a suggested $25, which seems a bit presumptuous to me. Perhaps the cost of a good investing book? But anything is OK... Wait a second...

I just checked paypal and so far we've received 3 donations for $10 each. Thanks JM, JL, and DR.
I guess it was only a matter of time before the powers that be on this forum took the work of so many people and decided to enrich their own pockets.
IMO, Lester, that's a very callous and mean-spirited thing to say about a couple of guys who've paid for everything out of their own pocket for about 10 years without asking for a penny. This was a direct result of forum members asking how they could contribute and suggesting ways to do so. And the end result (an unobtrusive link to Amazon.com and a "tip jar" for those who want to contribute) are hardly meant to "enrich their pockets". If they wanted to do that, they could simply load this site up with ads, which they've steadfastly refused to do.

If you find it offensive, you're obviously free to post elsewhere or start your own blog or forum. That just might change your mind.
Mel,

This is the part that bothers me:
Alex Frakt wrote:As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years
It seems that the Bogleheads spirit of helping others for the sake of helping has become "Well, we have tens of thousands of posts on here and lots of traffic, might as well see if I can't make a 'couple thousand' a month to supplement my income." I don't have a problem with Alex, Larry, Phoenix, or anyone else who is contributing their own dollars to want to recuperate those funds, but maybe the "excess" could be given to a charity of Jack Bogle's choice? I find it a little unsettling that the work of thousands of people is going to line the pockets of a select few. This forum wasn't built on one, five, or even ten posters. But it appears that a small handful will make some money off it. Sad indeed in my opinion.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 48650
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:02 pm

To match the forum rollout, the wiki main page just got updated with a new color scheme. Please checkout the Bogleheads Wiki.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

User avatar
Blue
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:18 pm

Post by Blue » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:05 pm

LesterFreamon wrote:
Mel Lindauer wrote:
LesterFreamon wrote:
Blue wrote:Hi Alex,

Thanks for all the good work you and Larry do. This site is amazing and I am truly grateful.

I am happy to contribute but I have no basis in terms of amount. Is there a number you are trying to hit, is there an annual cost per year or something like that? I truly have no idea but want to help.
Alex Frakt wrote:Direct costs (bandwidth and hardware) are maybe $2-4k per year right now, but that appears to be headed up somewhat. Still it's our time that really adds up, I spend an average of 3 hours a day on the site since we took over the forum, mostly doing boring moderator stuff.

As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years - giving me even more time to devote to the forum. Maybe I can even go back to answering actual questions :-)

If you are looking at a suggested amount for donations... I have no idea, it wasn't my idea to put up the tip jar. Most of the sites I've looked at that use donations seem to prefill it with a suggested $25, which seems a bit presumptuous to me. Perhaps the cost of a good investing book? But anything is OK... Wait a second...

I just checked paypal and so far we've received 3 donations for $10 each. Thanks JM, JL, and DR.
I guess it was only a matter of time before the powers that be on this forum took the work of so many people and decided to enrich their own pockets.
IMO, Lester, that's a very callous and mean-spirited thing to say about a couple of guys who've paid for everything out of their own pocket for about 10 years without asking for a penny. This was a direct result of forum members asking how they could contribute and suggesting ways to do so. And the end result (an unobtrusive link to Amazon.com and a "tip jar" for those who want to contribute) are hardly meant to "enrich their pockets". If they wanted to do that, they could simply load this site up with ads, which they've steadfastly refused to do.

If you find it offensive, you're obviously free to post elsewhere or start your own blog or forum. That just might change your mind.
Mel,

This is the part that bothers me:
Alex Frakt wrote:As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years
It seems that the Bogleheads spirit of helping others for the sake of helping has become "Well, we have tens of thousands of posts on here and lots of traffic, might as well see if I can't make a 'couple thousand' a month to supplement my income." I don't have a problem with Alex, Larry, Phoenix, or anyone else who is contributing their own dollars to want to recuperate those funds, but maybe the "excess" could be given to a charity of Jack Bogle's choice? I find it a little unsettling that the work of thousands of people is going to line the pockets of a select few. This forum wasn't built on one, five, or even ten posters. But it appears that a small handful will make some money off it. Sad indeed in my opinion.
I almost pm Alex instead of posting my question but then wondered if others would have the same question too. Now I am sorry I did.

Pizza guys and restaurants I know what tips are *reasonable* (in part thanks to this site), but I just wasn't quite sure what was reasonable to contribute to cover my "fair share", being truly appreciative of the time/resources a few have contributed for the benefit of many.

Lester, I hope you wake up happier and less cynical tomorrow.

User avatar
Mel Lindauer
Moderator
Posts: 28646
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Daytona Beach Shores, Florida
Contact:

Post by Mel Lindauer » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:21 pm

LesterFreamon wrote:
Mel Lindauer wrote:
LesterFreamon wrote:
Blue wrote:Hi Alex,

Thanks for all the good work you and Larry do. This site is amazing and I am truly grateful.

I am happy to contribute but I have no basis in terms of amount. Is there a number you are trying to hit, is there an annual cost per year or something like that? I truly have no idea but want to help.
Alex Frakt wrote:Direct costs (bandwidth and hardware) are maybe $2-4k per year right now, but that appears to be headed up somewhat. Still it's our time that really adds up, I spend an average of 3 hours a day on the site since we took over the forum, mostly doing boring moderator stuff.

As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years - giving me even more time to devote to the forum. Maybe I can even go back to answering actual questions :-)

If you are looking at a suggested amount for donations... I have no idea, it wasn't my idea to put up the tip jar. Most of the sites I've looked at that use donations seem to prefill it with a suggested $25, which seems a bit presumptuous to me. Perhaps the cost of a good investing book? But anything is OK... Wait a second...

I just checked paypal and so far we've received 3 donations for $10 each. Thanks JM, JL, and DR.
I guess it was only a matter of time before the powers that be on this forum took the work of so many people and decided to enrich their own pockets.
IMO, Lester, that's a very callous and mean-spirited thing to say about a couple of guys who've paid for everything out of their own pocket for about 10 years without asking for a penny. This was a direct result of forum members asking how they could contribute and suggesting ways to do so. And the end result (an unobtrusive link to Amazon.com and a "tip jar" for those who want to contribute) are hardly meant to "enrich their pockets". If they wanted to do that, they could simply load this site up with ads, which they've steadfastly refused to do.

If you find it offensive, you're obviously free to post elsewhere or start your own blog or forum. That just might change your mind.
Mel,

This is the part that bothers me:
Alex Frakt wrote:As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years
It seems that the Bogleheads spirit of helping others for the sake of helping has become "Well, we have tens of thousands of posts on here and lots of traffic, might as well see if I can't make a 'couple thousand' a month to supplement my income." I don't have a problem with Alex, Larry, Phoenix, or anyone else who is contributing their own dollars to want to recuperate those funds, but maybe the "excess" could be given to a charity of Jack Bogle's choice? I find it a little unsettling that the work of thousands of people is going to line the pockets of a select few. This forum wasn't built on one, five, or even ten posters. But it appears that a small handful will make some money off it. Sad indeed in my opinion.
If you had read closely, Lester, you'd have seen where Alex stated that he'd like to be able to work his regular job part-time so he could devote even more time to forum matters.

And, for the record, Alex and Larry are the two guys who have totally funded bogleheads.org and diehards.org out of their own pockets for nearly 10 years (domain registration fees, servers, maintenance fees) and have spent countless hours behind the scenes with software and administrative issues and so many other unseen but vital forum chores.

I consider myself a major contributor to this forum, and yet I don't feel the least bit taken advantage of by this move. In fact, I'm really glad to see it, since I feel it will help ensure the future of the forum. Frankly, I was always concerned about Alex and Larry getting fed up with the thankless work they do and feared they might just shut the forum down one day to move on to something more productive.
Last edited by Mel Lindauer on Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

User avatar
Mel Lindauer
Moderator
Posts: 28646
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Daytona Beach Shores, Florida
Contact:

Post by Mel Lindauer » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:31 pm

LadyGeek wrote:To match the forum rollout, the wiki main page just got updated with a new color scheme. Please checkout the Bogleheads Wiki.
Hi LadyGeek:

The Wiki just keeps getting "betterer and betterer". You, Barry and the small but merry band of wiki editors continue to add to and improve something that will help millions and millions of investors. I just hope you realize what a valuable contribution you gals and guys are making.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi

Grt2bOutdoors
Posts: 19324
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: New York

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:03 pm

LesterFreamon wrote:
Mel Lindauer wrote:
LesterFreamon wrote:
Blue wrote:Hi Alex,

Thanks for all the good work you and Larry do. This site is amazing and I am truly grateful.

I am happy to contribute but I have no basis in terms of amount. Is there a number you are trying to hit, is there an annual cost per year or something like that? I truly have no idea but want to help.
Alex Frakt wrote:Direct costs (bandwidth and hardware) are maybe $2-4k per year right now, but that appears to be headed up somewhat. Still it's our time that really adds up, I spend an average of 3 hours a day on the site since we took over the forum, mostly doing boring moderator stuff.

As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years - giving me even more time to devote to the forum. Maybe I can even go back to answering actual questions :-)

If you are looking at a suggested amount for donations... I have no idea, it wasn't my idea to put up the tip jar. Most of the sites I've looked at that use donations seem to prefill it with a suggested $25, which seems a bit presumptuous to me. Perhaps the cost of a good investing book? But anything is OK... Wait a second...

I just checked paypal and so far we've received 3 donations for $10 each. Thanks JM, JL, and DR.
I guess it was only a matter of time before the powers that be on this forum took the work of so many people and decided to enrich their own pockets.
IMO, Lester, that's a very callous and mean-spirited thing to say about a couple of guys who've paid for everything out of their own pocket for about 10 years without asking for a penny. This was a direct result of forum members asking how they could contribute and suggesting ways to do so. And the end result (an unobtrusive link to Amazon.com and a "tip jar" for those who want to contribute) are hardly meant to "enrich their pockets". If they wanted to do that, they could simply load this site up with ads, which they've steadfastly refused to do.

If you find it offensive, you're obviously free to post elsewhere or start your own blog or forum. That just might change your mind.
Mel,

This is the part that bothers me:
Alex Frakt wrote:As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years
It seems that the Bogleheads spirit of helping others for the sake of helping has become "Well, we have tens of thousands of posts on here and lots of traffic, might as well see if I can't make a 'couple thousand' a month to supplement my income." I don't have a problem with Alex, Larry, Phoenix, or anyone else who is contributing their own dollars to want to recuperate those funds, but maybe the "excess" could be given to a charity of Jack Bogle's choice? I find it a little unsettling that the work of thousands of people is going to line the pockets of a select few. This forum wasn't built on one, five, or even ten posters. But it appears that a small handful will make some money off it. Sad indeed in my opinion.
Not to beat a dead horse, but it appears there are two costs involved here, one of actual dollars out the door and one of time. Now, it's very easy to quantify the actual hard cash spent to run this forum, but did you ever think of the "opportunity cost" that these two fellows are incurring by spending their time on administering it? The time spent working on this site could be time spent more "productively" elsewhere. Actually, it sounds like Alex is working the equivalent of two full time jobs. I don't know of many people who would willingly donate their time and energy for nothing. IMHO, I think you are way off base.

User avatar
mudfud
Posts: 1218
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:34 pm

Post by mudfud » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:09 pm

"No good deed goes unpunished".

Sigh.
"Are you sure you have tested an a priori hypothesis?" | | Image

User avatar
Big Al
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:31 pm
Location: Southern California

Post by Big Al » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:11 pm

Grandpaboys wrote:What happen to the Post Numbers? Many of us use the Post # to pick up where we left the site and returned.

.
I, too, have always used the post numbers the way you have. I have NO idea how I'm going to keep up with the new conversations in the order that are posted. I am truly missing the post numbers. :cry:

.......Al
.

markcoop
Posts: 801
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:36 am

Post by markcoop » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:25 pm

It may be just me, but I prefer to have the #replies number to the right of the topic title. I start to read left to right and seem to constantly look back to the left.

Not a big deal though.
Mark

Lana
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:40 pm
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

Post by Lana » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:08 pm

I just made my first contribution. I plan to make more because the investing information on this site is quite valuable and the Lounge topics are also helpful or at least entertaining.
Last edited by Lana on Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
tarnation
Posts: 2349
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:36 am

Post by tarnation » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:00 pm

Alright, how much do I have to pay to get the RSS feed changed so that the included text is the new post rather than the first post in the thread?? The only interface I use now is RSS and "watch this thread" feature.
Image

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:19 pm

tarnation wrote:Alright, how much do I have to pay to get the RSS feed changed so that the included text is the new post rather than the first post in the thread?? The only interface I use now is RSS and "watch this thread" feature.
I'll pass this on to our custom programming department for a quote :-) Seriously, I'll give it to Larry for a look. I can't work on it since he wrote it in (the programming language) Ruby which I don't know.

User avatar
tarnation
Posts: 2349
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:36 am

Post by tarnation » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:23 pm

Alex Frakt wrote:
tarnation wrote:Alright, how much do I have to pay to get the RSS feed changed so that the included text is the new post rather than the first post in the thread?? The only interface I use now is RSS and "watch this thread" feature.
I'll pass this on to our custom programming department for a quote :-) Seriously, I'll give it to Larry for a look. I can't work on it since he wrote it in (the programming language) Ruby which I don't know.
I've been looking for an excuse to sharpen my Ruby, I would be willing to help.
Image

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:45 pm

LesterFreamon wrote:This is the part that bothers me:
Alex Frakt wrote:As to what we'd like to hit? Well, we'd love to quit our day jobs, but realistically we would be very happy with a couple thousand a month to supplement our incomes. I know in my case, it would allow my wife and I to meet a goal of moving to part-time work in a few years
It seems that the Bogleheads spirit of helping others for the sake of helping has become "Well, we have tens of thousands of posts on here and lots of traffic, might as well see if I can't make a 'couple thousand' a month to supplement my income." I don't have a problem with Alex, Larry, Phoenix, or anyone else who is contributing their own dollars to want to recuperate those funds, but maybe the "excess" could be given to a charity of Jack Bogle's choice? I find it a little unsettling that the work of thousands of people is going to line the pockets of a select few. This forum wasn't built on one, five, or even ten posters. But it appears that a small handful will make some money off it. Sad indeed in my opinion.
This was never a get rich quick scheme. We've run this thing for 9 years without asking for help. But here's the problem. It's not just a few hundred bucks a month in out of pocket expenses. Our time is a real cost. Speaking for myself, between running my wife's law office, looking after our 13-month old son and the ever-increasing burden of serving as chief moderator of the site, I'm close to being overwhelmed, I already work 6 days a week and 2 months ago "temporarily" cut out the rowing workouts I started in 2001. Something has to give. I would prefer to be able to cut back on my day job. But I can't do that without making up the money somehow. This has been a real quandary since Larry and I are very sensitive about disturbing our community - we have already turned down several offers to sell the site outright or put up ads. In this thread which began as a question about how much traffic we get, one of our members suggested the affiliate link approach and several others asked for the ability to give donations. We decided to adopt these suggestions and see where it leads.

Ping Pong
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:51 pm

Post by Ping Pong » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:28 pm

Alex Frakt wrote:ever-increasing burden of serving as chief moderator of the site, I'm close to being overwhelmed
I think many of us are overwhelmed simply by reading the site. It consumes several hours a day.

But you shouldn't be doing so much moderating. You should delegate that to moderators. Find another dozen or so people that you can add to the list of moderators. This site is too big to only have a handful of moderators. I think it would be bad for your career to be spending a large chunk of your time just moderating, whether you're paid for it or not.

Alex Frakt
Founder
Posts: 10853
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 pm
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Post by Alex Frakt » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:36 pm

Ping Pong wrote:
Alex Frakt wrote:ever-increasing burden of serving as chief moderator of the site, I'm close to being overwhelmed
I think many of us are overwhelmed simply by reading the site. It consumes several hours a day.

But you shouldn't be doing so much moderating. You should delegate that to moderators. Find another dozen or so people that you can add to the list of moderators. This site is too big to only have a handful of moderators. I think it would be bad for your career to be spending a large chunk of your time just moderating, whether you're paid for it or not.
The last time I asked, we got exactly two volunteers :-)

If anyone reading this wants to volunteer to be a moderator, let me know by PM.

User avatar
Pres
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:25 pm
Location: Eurozone

Post by Pres » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:02 pm

Alex Frakt wrote:This has been a real quandary since Larry and I are very sensitive about disturbing our community - we have already turned down several offers to sell the site outright or put up ads.
Alex and Larry, thanks for the stellar job you're doing and your delicate approach! I hope this forum will continue to exist forever and keep the type of members that it currently has. This is a formidable place.

My only regret is that more stuff is posted here than I can read in my spare time.

Amazon affiliate link bookmarked.

User avatar
Barry Barnitz
Wiki Admin
Posts: 3018
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:42 pm
Contact:

Wiki Update

Post by Barry Barnitz » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:26 pm

Hi:

The wiki main page is again updated with a new color scheme, closely matching the subsilver forum styling. Please check out the Bogleheads Wiki.

regards,
Image | blb | December Birthday Celebration: Ludwig van Beethoven

retiredjg
Posts: 34193
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Post by retiredjg » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:45 pm

Alex, I just wanted to let you know that all my troubles with the new home page on my MacBook are fixed. Part was your making it wider and part was sscritic helping me with fonts.

Thanks again for everything. You guys (sorry I don't know who all of you are) do good work! I'll be sending in a "tip" when my holiday bills are paid off!

And using the Amazon button. I'm an Amazon regular.

richard
Posts: 7961
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:38 pm
Contact:

Post by richard » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:47 am

Here's a thread from another forum which had asked for donations. Reportedly, paypal suspended the account for no good reason, so that the owner could not get the donations. If nothing else, the safer course would be remove money frequently so that if there is a problem, it's a small problem.

See especially post #8. Post #20 has another view.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/ind ... opic=77427

Post Reply