Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

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kevinf
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Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by kevinf »

So there isn't really a whole lot of reason to have the ability to edit posts in perpetuity, and a lot of misuse as was demonstrated by a user going back and manually deleting ALL of their posts. Can we lock out edits after some amount of time has passed?
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Nicolas »

There have been previous threads on this topic, here are two. I say leave things as they are.
viewtopic.php?t=17785
viewtopic.php?t=225595
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

To leave later-realized error published is simply immoral. Despite its occasional inconveniences I would argue in favor of perpetual editability. I would also encourage corrections to be made in such a way that the original error is not obscured, but merely replaced.

Should an original poster wish for a thread to be removed they can contact a moderator with the request.

Without good will on all of our parts it won't work. Let's exhibit good will so it will work.

PJW
Last edited by Phineas J. Whoopee on Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by wintermute »

Is append-only an option?
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by AlphaLess »

kevinf wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:52 pm So there isn't really a whole lot of reason to have the ability to edit posts in perpetuity, and a lot of misuse as was demonstrated by a user going back and manually deleting ALL of their posts. Can we lock out edits after some amount of time has passed?
Why should a user not be able to delete all their own posts?
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by AlphaLess »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:05 am To leave later-realized error published is simply immoral. Despite its occasional inconveniences I would argue in favor of perpetual editability. I would also encourage corrections to be made in such a way that the original error is not obscured, but merely replaced.
This is getting a bit too academic, but plenty of forum software have ability to track revisions.

Tracking revisions is a standard feature of any software source control system.

But immoral and original error?

This is not a place for people to write dissertations.
This is simply an anonymous internet forum.

You get what you pay for.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

AlphaLess wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:15 am
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:05 am To leave later-realized error published is simply immoral. Despite its occasional inconveniences I would argue in favor of perpetual editability. I would also encourage corrections to be made in such a way that the original error is not obscured, but merely replaced.
This is getting a bit too academic, but plenty of forum software have ability to track revisions.

Tracking revisions is a standard feature of any software source control system.

But immoral and original error?

This is not a place for people to write dissertations.
This is simply an anonymous internet forum.

You get what you pay for.
I politely disagree with you.

To publish known error is immoral. That's my firm belief.

You may believe otherwise.

PJW
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by AlphaLess »

EDIT: original post published here was wrong.

In the interest of preserving the original, I quoted my own post, and admitted to the incorrectness.

To see both the original, and the correction, please consult this link:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=302221&p=4987522#p4987522
Last edited by AlphaLess on Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by AlphaLess »

AlphaLess wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:23 am Treatise On Wealth Creation.

Abstract: in this paper, we demonstrate a novel way to create wealth. We demonstrate how a novice and uninformed investor can start with 4 of something (e.g., widgets), and be able to infinitely increase their widget wealth.

Solution blue-print: Suppose there is an investor with 4 widgets. Our solution is three-fold: (a) consider his 4 widgets as two piles of 2, (b) use a well-known mathematical formulate to produce a 5th widget out of two piles of 2, (c) take advantage of a recently invented time-warp principle, in which widget operations can be squeezed in half the amount of time, thus cutting passage of time, (d) putting all the pieces together.

Assuming that a mere mortal has 4 widgets is reasonable assumption. So there is nothing new here.

A. Splitting 4 widgets into two piles of 2 is as easy as 4 / 2 = 2,

B. There is a well-known mathematical result that says combining two piles of 2 widgets yields a 5th widget,

C. Using the time-warm principle, we can do (A) and (B) in half the amount of time. By squeezing time-space principle indefinitely, we can essentially conduct that operation in near-zero time,

D. By rinse-and-repeating the above, we can produce infinitely many widgets.

QED.
Sorry, folks.

I was totally wrong above.

It turns out, that (B) is wrong. Authors admitted to it.

Furthermore, (C) result is only possible in certain cases, and time it takes to do widget operations can not be squeezed indefinitely. In fact, when applied to widget operations, time is nearly incompressible.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by AlphaLess »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:21 am
AlphaLess wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:15 am
Phineas J. Whoopee wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:05 am To leave later-realized error published is simply immoral. Despite its occasional inconveniences I would argue in favor of perpetual editability. I would also encourage corrections to be made in such a way that the original error is not obscured, but merely replaced.
This is getting a bit too academic, but plenty of forum software have ability to track revisions.

Tracking revisions is a standard feature of any software source control system.

But immoral and original error?

This is not a place for people to write dissertations.
This is simply an anonymous internet forum.

You get what you pay for.
I politely disagree with you.

To publish known error is immoral. That's my firm belief.

You may believe otherwise.

PJW
Sure. I don't have any problems with that.

Now, check how I accomplished exactly what you wanted to do by consulting the two above post I made.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

Quod non erat demonstrandum.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by AerialWombat »

.....
Last edited by AerialWombat on Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Mordoch »

I fairly recently received a PM where the OP decided a couple years later they had given out too much personal information and had basically deleted their posts in the thread and wanted me to at least eliminate some of the information in my response which which still tended to give that personal info.

I managed to edit the post in response to leave out the key potential personal info while still leaving key general info which might be useful for someone searching on the subject in the future. I really don't see the compelling reason to change this as long as people can see how recently a post has been edited.
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kevinf
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by kevinf »

For anything that absolutely needs redacted or edited later, simply contacting a moderator to unlock the post in question should be quite fine. The large majority of edits can be simple addendum or self-quoted in a later post and revised. There is also the fact that quoted replies are not edited when the OP is, and will not be altered upon OP edits... and the internet wayback machine is a thing. So once you've put something on the internet, consider it to be there for good. There really are no take-backs once you hit submit, regardless of your ability to edit in perpetuity or not.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by TravelGeek »

Forum policies, section 8 (Copyright)
Rights Retained by Authors

Post authors (regardless of standing) retain the exclusive right to republish their original material in any medium or website outside the forum except where this right is limited by fair use and any applicable laws. In other words, no one can sell or reuse your words outside the forum without your express permission, but you can sell or reuse them without ours.

Post authors in good standing retain the right to edit, modify or delete the contents of their posts as long as the forum remains fully operational (i.e., as long as the forum is accepting new posts).
(Bolding added by me)

I think this is a good policy.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by ResearchMed »

kevinf wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:19 am For anything that absolutely needs redacted or edited later, simply contacting a moderator to unlock the post in question should be quite fine. The large majority of edits can be simple addendum or self-quoted in a later post and revised. There is also the fact that quoted replies are not edited when the OP is, and will not be altered upon OP edits... and the internet wayback machine is a thing. So once you've put something on the internet, consider it to be there for good. There really are no take-backs once you hit submit, regardless of your ability to edit in perpetuity or not.
A moderator can make any changes deemed appropriate, if requested by a poster, or if they (mods) decide it is appropriate.

I really object to the wholesale deleting.
Many of us put in a lot of time and effort (and sometimes look things up, etc.), trying to be helpful and contribute to the OP, subsequent posters, the forum as a whole... and massive deleting can obscure the meaning of some/many of those posts by others.

IF there is a problem (e.g., someone posting too much possibly identifying info when there might be a legal case - and this has happened), then notifying a moderator would work to delete the specific info, while not obscuring entirely the context such that later posts have little meaning.

I actually had thought there was such a policy here (of not deleting wholesale), but I guess that is another forum...

RM
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by goingup »

kevinf wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:52 pm So there isn't really a whole lot of reason to have the ability to edit posts in perpetuity, and a lot of misuse as was demonstrated by a user going back and manually deleting ALL of their posts. Can we lock out edits after some amount of time has passed?
I think I know about the situation you are referring to. It's hard to imagine the disaffection that poster must have felt to delete 100's of posts. :| This doesn't happen frequently here. I feel as though a poster should be able to take their toys and go home if they want. Leaves a hole though and I personally think it's discourteous to the forum. Then again, that may be the goal!
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

ResearchMed wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:59 am I actually had thought there was such a policy here (of not deleting wholesale)
Covered specifically in the Forum Policies, rules#section-8.

Also mentioned above:
TravelGeek wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:45 am Forum policies, section 8 (Copyright)
Rights Retained by Authors

Post authors (regardless of standing) retain the exclusive right to republish their original material in any medium or website outside the forum except where this right is limited by fair use and any applicable laws. In other words, no one can sell or reuse your words outside the forum without your express permission, but you can sell or reuse them without ours.

Post authors in good standing retain the right to edit, modify or delete the contents of their posts as long as the forum remains fully operational (i.e., as long as the forum is accepting new posts).
(Bolding added by me)

I think this is a good policy.
Ultimately it is the site owners that define policies and generally it works, until such time as it doesn't, as in the case being discussed here. Personally I believe there should be some window of time allowed to edit a post (i.e. make corrections), but not forever, exactly because of this situation where someone acts out and disrupts one (or more) discussions.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by whodidntante »

Maybe those of you with great site customization ideas can learn the skills to implement them and volunteer to do the work, and also volunteer to be on call to fix it when what you did doesn't work with the new release of phpBB. Or better yet, contribute your changes back to phpBB so the whole world can benefit from your awesome vision and technical skills. :twisted:
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Stinky »

Phineas J. Whoopee wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:05 am To leave later-realized error published is simply immoral. Despite its occasional inconveniences I would argue in favor of perpetual editability. I would also encourage corrections to be made in such a way that the original error is not obscured, but merely replaced.

Should an original poster wish for a thread to be removed they can contact a moderator with the request.

Without good will on all of our parts it won't work. Let's exhibit good will so it will work.

PJW
+1
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

whodidntante wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:40 am Maybe those of you with great site customization ideas can learn the skills to implement them and volunteer to do the work, and also volunteer to be on call to fix it when what you did doesn't work with the new release of phpBB. Or better yet, contribute your changes back to phpBB so the whole world can benefit from your awesome vision and technical skills. :twisted:
Been there, done that (contributed code to phpBB).

phpBB does have a settings to 'Limit edit time' and 'Limit delete time'. The site owners, based on the rules#section-8, have chosen to set these to 0.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by ResearchMed »

goingup wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:24 am
kevinf wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:52 pm So there isn't really a whole lot of reason to have the ability to edit posts in perpetuity, and a lot of misuse as was demonstrated by a user going back and manually deleting ALL of their posts. Can we lock out edits after some amount of time has passed?
I think I know about the situation you are referring to. It's hard to imagine the disaffection that poster must have felt to delete 100's of posts. :| This doesn't happen frequently here. I feel as though a poster should be able to take their toys and go home if they want. Leaves a hole though and I personally think it's discourteous to the forum. Then again, that may be the goal!
Thanks.

As I suggested, I had been thinking of the policy of a different forum, where there is a comfortable window to "fix" something, and then after that... no changes unless by a moderator (and that does happen from time to time).
But there, if there are antagonistic posts (not all forums are as pleasant at BH!), the mods tend to delete the entire thread, which is a different problem...

Bottom line, I know I am not alone in being VERY grateful to all forum moderators!
:happy

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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

AerialWombat wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:41 am I just went to my personal portfolio thread and entirely deleted my last entry because I decided I didn’t want certain details to be public.

Was that immoral?

I appreciate the ability to do that here, where personal financial details are frequently discussed.
I use the word immoral referring to knowing publication of wrong information. I don't use it to refer to chosen non-publishing of information.

Others may disagree.

PJW
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by TravelGeek »

Peculiar_Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:35 am Ultimately it is the site owners that define policies and generally it works, until such time as it doesn't, as in the case being discussed here. Personally I believe there should be some window of time allowed to edit a post (i.e. make corrections), but not forever, exactly because of this situation where someone acts out and disrupts one (or more) discussions.
How often, in the history of this forum, has it been a problem that someone went on a delete spree? I am not convinced that a forum needs an explicit rule to cater for for every possible scenario. If a disenchanted member were prohibited from taking their contributions and moving on, the consequence might be other behavior that could be even more destructive. It might be worthwhile spending time considering what went wrong in the particular case if the person’s contributions were actually valuable (I don’t know what happened as I don’t read every thread). And while I personally couldn’t imagine wanting to delete all my ramblings here, fundamentally I consider them my work product, contributed under the rules I agreed to. Restricting my rights after the fact seems wrong.

There might also be an impact on the workload for moderators if people have to ping mods for changes after X hours/days.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Sandtrap »

One should always have the option to correct past “brain farts”.....especially because there’s so little opportunity for that in real life.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by FGal »

I really really really REALLY hate being locked out of being able to edit or remove my posts without having to ask a moderator and justify why.

I do hope edits/removals are allowed in perpetuity here. Most people don't abuse the ability, but it's nice to have the option.


I know of one recently that apparently went on a rampage deleting ALL their posts in a thread they started due to - I don't even know? - realizes that they've now shot themselves in the foot as far as many people offering them advice/discussion/eyes on their future postings here. I can't imagine being so rude as to do what they did. It honestly makes them look really bad for not standing by their words, and if they thought they posted something so embarrassing as to never want it seen again, they could have asked the moderators to remove the entire thread instead of the ridiculous way they went about it.

I'd suggest anyone that does this sort of thing be added to an "ignore" list and don't waste time offering to read their posts in future if the chronic deleter can't think of constructive ways to have a discussion that don't end in them gathering up their toys and leaving in a huff if the thread doesn't go the direction they'd like. We do have that option I think (ignore)?

ETA: we don't have the option to have an ignore! I see the control panel has a selection of Friends and Foes but only allows us to add people to a friend group... not a FOE group so we don't see their posts. Now that would be lovely to add... on other forums, you can set people as being ignored, and while they still show up in threads, their post is hidden unless you click on a specific link to load it so you don't have to remember that you're not devoting brain space responding to someone that isn't worth the time and trouble.
Last edited by FGal on Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

The Bogleheads board is one of the only ones where I participate that doesn't have a 48 hour or 1 week policy for members to edit/delete their posts.
TravelGeek wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:03 pm And while I personally couldn’t imagine wanting to delete all my ramblings here, fundamentally I consider them my work product, contributed under the rules I agreed to. Restricting my rights after the fact seems wrong.
Your point is taken and well stated.

That's the challenge in drafting the policy, balancing your rights with others who have posted/contributed after your post, possibly even quoting your post. A topic is a series of posts that generally form a cohesive discussion when read together. If someone goes back and substantively changes one of the early posts, not just correcting an error, then it potentially impacts all subsequent posts and the possibly the whole flow of the discussion.

Personally I've had cases where someone went back and edited their posts (per their rights), which made my replies nonsensical. Because I didn't re-read the topic from the start, I was unaware, but others point it out to me via PM. As I said, finding the balance point is the challenge.

What we've seen recently is an edge case, but a very disruptive one to what seems like an important discussion, based on the number of posts and views. Hence the discussion within the community on how it impacted them and what they'd like to see. At the end of the day, the powers that be are the ones that set policy, so most of this is likely moot.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by TravelGeek »

Peculiar_Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:26 pm
That's the challenge in drafting the policy, balancing your rights with others who have posted/contributed after your post, possibly even quoting your post. A topic is a series of posts that generally form a cohesive discussion when read together. If someone goes back and substantively changes one of the early posts, not just correcting an error, then it potentially impacts all subsequent posts and the possibly the whole flow of the discussion.

Personally I've had cases where someone went back and edited their posts (per their rights), which made my replies nonsensical. Because I didn't re-read the topic from the start, I was unaware, but others point it out to me via PM. As I said, finding the balance point is the challenge.
That happens all the time. Someone, usually a new member, starts a thread asking a question about their investment strategy. Helpful members chime in with advice or questions. Others suggest editing the first post with additional information following the "standard format". By the time I get around to reading the thread, the first post has been edited half a dozen times with information that the first ten people asked about and it makes following the discussion somewhat difficult ("why did you ask the OP for info that is in the original post... oh wait..."). If I had my druthers, people would post additional information in a separate post so the thread remains a cohesive thread and edits are only used for quick corrections (say, typos) and not for modifications of information that has already been discussed/quoted. But that's obviously not how many people want it to be and I can live with it :)
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by TravelGeek »

FGal wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:23 pm
ETA: we don't have the option to have an ignore! I see the control panel has a selection of Friends and Foes but only allows us to add people to a friend group... not a FOE group so we don't see their posts. Now that would be lovely to add... on other forums, you can set people as being ignored, and while they still show up in threads, their post is hidden unless you click on a specific link to load it so you don't have to remember that you're not devoting brain space responding to someone that isn't worth the time and trouble.
There have been threads about such a feature and I believe the statement from the owners/admins/mods was that such a feature will not be provided.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Freefun »

I like this forum just the way it is.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by F150HD »

kevinf wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:52 pm So there isn't really a whole lot of reason to have the ability to edit posts in perpetuity, and a lot of misuse as was demonstrated by a user going back and manually deleting ALL of their posts. Can we lock out edits after some amount of time has passed?
why would you even ask this question?
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by the way »

TravelGeek wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:03 pm
Peculiar_Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:35 am Ultimately it is the site owners that define policies and generally it works, until such time as it doesn't, as in the case being discussed here. Personally I believe there should be some window of time allowed to edit a post (i.e. make corrections), but not forever, exactly because of this situation where someone acts out and disrupts one (or more) discussions.
How often, in the history of this forum, has it been a problem that someone went on a delete spree?
yeah, does it really matter if someone deletes their history? With the number of similar and duplicate threads from the recent past and even going on concurrently, I question whether people even read old posts lol.

But maybe a good solution is just to auto-lock any old threads after a month or a year of inactivity. That would handle it, right?

I did a search on "deleted" and looked at the oldest cases. One guy mass-deleted his 2000 posts. Another guy just mass-deleted 4000 out of his 12000 posts last April, but is still here posting so I don't know what the issue was. Pretty massive effort in both cases though, imo.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by TravelGeek »

the way wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:10 pm
But maybe a good solution is just to auto-lock any old threads after a month or a year of inactivity. That would handle it, right?
Well, I just posted to a thread from 2017 that was inactive for the last six months. But I found it via Google and it seemed the appropriate place to ask the question. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=227301

I personally also like it when people come back with an update on a problem they wrote about in the past.

So no, I wouldn't think auto-locking threads after a month or year of inactivity is desirable.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by mpsz »

the way wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:10 pm
TravelGeek wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:03 pm
Peculiar_Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:35 am Ultimately it is the site owners that define policies and generally it works, until such time as it doesn't, as in the case being discussed here. Personally I believe there should be some window of time allowed to edit a post (i.e. make corrections), but not forever, exactly because of this situation where someone acts out and disrupts one (or more) discussions.
How often, in the history of this forum, has it been a problem that someone went on a delete spree?
yeah, does it really matter if someone deletes their history? With the number of similar and duplicate threads from the recent past and even going on concurrently, I question whether people even read old posts lol.

But maybe a good solution is just to auto-lock any old threads after a month or a year of inactivity. That would handle it, right?

I did a search on "deleted" and looked at the oldest cases. One guy mass-deleted his 2000 posts. Another guy just mass-deleted 4000 out of his 12000 posts last April, but is still here posting so I don't know what the issue was. Pretty massive effort in both cases though, imo.
I believe there is software out there that will mass-delete for you... if not, it's pretty trivial to write a script to do so yourself as you can get a list of all of your posts in your forum control panel.

Some privacy-conscious people feel that over time, you may inadvertently reveal small pieces of information about yourself in your posts. Viewing your years-long post history could maybe let someone piece together enough information to identify you. So, some people may choose to delete old posts to make this more difficult.

It's certainly frustrating to come across a thread that has many deleted posts, but I think it's important to let people edit or even clear/delete old posts. "Right to be Forgotten" and such.
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kevinf
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by kevinf »

F150HD wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:23 pm
kevinf wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:52 pm So there isn't really a whole lot of reason to have the ability to edit posts in perpetuity, and a lot of misuse as was demonstrated by a user going back and manually deleting ALL of their posts. Can we lock out edits after some amount of time has passed?
why would you even ask this question?
I've administered PHPBB in the past, and I've been part of many forums with an edit-lock after X period of time. I've even posted to forums where NO edits are allowed, period. It's not a problem, and if something MUST be changed a moderator can handle it. Many posts prior to this have listed the benefits, namely better flow to conversations. 48 hours or a week is more than long enough to catch spelling, grammar, and logic errors. If you need to add something, it really is best done as a quoted post addendum for myriad reasons already explained up-thread.

It's also best to work off of the concept that once you've posted something (for ANY length of time) to "the internet" it has been archived, spidered, cached, copied, quoted, referenced, screenshot, etc. There are very few cases where you can truly remove something you've posted. I can find a message I posted to IRC (a chat protocol that was NOT web-based) from ~2002 on the web RIGHT NOW. It was posted in a low-traffic, private channel on a completely different internet protocol than HTTP, over 18 years ago!
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by AerialWombat »

.....
Last edited by AerialWombat on Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sconie
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Sconie »

Freefun wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:56 pm I like this forum just the way it is.
+1 In the scheme of things, I just don't see how leaving things alone----keeping them the way they are now----is a problem.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Dottie57 »

Sandtrap wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:07 pm One should always have the option to correct past “brain farts”.....especially because there’s so little opportunity for that in real life.
J🏝
+1.
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nisiprius
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by nisiprius »

I used to use tinypic.com, which had actually been quasi-recommended by one of the forum admins, to host the images I put in my postings. tinypic.com shut down and all those image links now render an error message. From time to time, if I specifically want to refer to an old post... or get fan mail about it... that has a missing image, and I can find or retrieve a copy of it, I will upload it to imgur.com and replace the old link, so that

Image

is restored to its former glory as

Image

This is one legitimate reason for wanting to be able to edit, in this case, a six-year-old posting.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

nisiprius wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:11 am This is one legitimate reason for wanting to be able to edit, in this case, a six-year-old posting.
There are many legitimate reasons, just as there are many reasons such as the recent 'take my ball home' episode.

As I posted previously, somewhere there is a balance that works for this community. That's why the phpBB software developments made it a changeable option for each board admin to decide.
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nisiprius
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by nisiprius »

I'm slightly surprised at the intensity of feeling. My personal feeling is that unlike Wikipedia, I don't think there is any forum policy saying that postings are irrevocable contributions. On the contrary, "This forum makes no claim to the ownership of original materials in posts or replies submitted by our members." I don't see anything in the long "copyright" section of the forum policy that says it's against the rules to pick up your ball and go home.

(Wikipedia is different, and can be amusing. It not infrequently happens that a self-promoter will create an article praising some dubious enterprise, and forum editors rapidly step in to apply the "neutral point of view." The article acquires a "criticism of X" section with verifiable references to negative information, exaggerations get tone down, empty puffery gets {citation needed} tags and gets deleted, and so on. By then the self-promoter i upset and tries to delete the article, only to find that it is very hard to do. Selective deletion of negative information, if it is verifiable and properly cited, are quickly reverted by other editors. Only admins can delete the article itself, and they only do it after a social process in which an admin determines that there is strong community consensus for deletion.)
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

nisiprius wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:25 am I don't see anything in the long "copyright" section of the forum policy that says it's against the rules to pick up your ball and go home.
I am not a lawyer or site owner, but per rules#section-8
  • Post authors in good standing retain the right to edit, modify or delete the contents of their posts as long as the forum remains fully operational (i.e., as long as the forum is accepting new posts).
I think it is currently NOT against the rules. It is probably against etiquette, but that's different and subject of this discussion.
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HomeStretch
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by HomeStretch »

While it is mildly annoying to see a mass elimination of posts (as it can decimate a thread discussion), I have only seen this twice in the last 6 months. I don’t see that as a reason to change the forum rules about editing and locking threads based on age. I especially don’t want to put more work on the moderators by adding edit/unlock requests to their workload.
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kevinf
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by kevinf »

Regarding edit-deleting posts;

At some point, your words and thoughts (expressed as a post to a web forum), become part of the public consciousness... likened to copyrighted works becoming public domain. Once you've published your work, it is actually owned by society and you have attribution rights to it. Were Mickey Mouse to fall into public domain, yet Disney went out of their way to destroy all reference to it, we as a society would consider that to be heinous and immoral.

If something is truly private or has changed status in a way that its removal is necessary, then that is exactly what a moderation team is for. But as stated, once something is published it is best to operate off if the assumption that you cannot unpublish due to the nature of the internet. Post with care and fix your grammar within a week. PHPBB doesn't even alter quoted messages when the OP is edited, so if anyone quotes a post that you edit you must contact a mod to edit the quotes anyway. :happy

A broken link is certainly a good reason to have a mod temporarily unlock an edit restriction and falls squarely within the typical maintenance if an active forum.

You remain free to add on to or retract your prior posts via a later post. We lose nothing.
MathWizard
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by MathWizard »

If such a change is made, then I suggest that a notice should be sent out so that users who contributed in
the past would have a final opportunity to delete any/all their posts per the rules in effect when they posted.

Now, imagine all the chaos that would ensue when even 10 or 100 long term members exit the board,
taking all their posts with them.

I do not think this is a good idea.
rich126
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by rich126 »

Seems pretty unnecessary. I'd rather see some tool to prevent people posting subjects will multiple consecutive exclamation points, question marks, etc. and all cap subject headings but that is just me.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by bryanm »

kevinf wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:25 pm But as stated, once something is published it is best to operate off if the assumption that you cannot unpublish due to the nature of the internet.
You're effectively arguing that policy should be changed on the board because in practice the "no-delete" policy already exists by virtue of a higher power. If that's the case--if nothing is ever truly deleted on the internet--then no change in policy is need. The goal is achieved.

We shouldn't forget that we're arguing about policy here. Arguments can go either way, but in the end it's up to the forum administrators. I doubt they'd be swayed by arguments that the decision is, in fact, not theirs to make.
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by the way »

nisiprius wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:11 am I used to use tinypic.com, which had actually been quasi-recommended by one of the forum admins, to host the images I put in my postings. tinypic.com shut down and all those image links now render an error message. From time to time, if I specifically want to refer to an old post... or get fan mail about it... that has a missing image, and I can find or retrieve a copy of it, I will upload it to imgur.com and replace the old link
Ironically, I read the first half of your post thinking you were arguing for the other side. Ie. having posts that contain valuable context and information 'disappear' years after the fact is exactly what the OP is complaining about. (btw "fan mail" :))
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kevinf
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Re: Disable edits after 48 hours, 1 week, etc.

Post by kevinf »

Because it affects everyone, not just "yourself". A mass deleter just caused a topic I was enjoying to get derailed and locked.

This is a public community, not a personal blog. Once others start contributing to a topic it's a community effort and you no longer have the right to alter the context of their posts or pull the rug out entirely.
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