Blank line doubling

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digarei
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Blank line doubling

Post by digarei » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:07 am

. . .
—————————————————————————————————
EDIT 2/23
Issue now resolved
thanks to ladygeek
END EDIT

—————————————————————————————————
EDIT 2/21
See viewtopic.php?f=3&t=242204&p=3794419#p3794419
Images were removed from posts linked below
thanks
END EDIT

—————————————————————————————————

I’ve noticed that when I update an older post something causers the software to repeat each embedded blank line when displayed. This doesn’t happen every time, only occasionally. The last time was months ago and I just kept changing the content until it fixed itself but I have no idea what causes this or what I might have done that fixed it.

It becomes evident as soon as I click Preview or Submit. This seems to be a problem for me only when editing longer posts that employ numerous formatting codes. What am I doing to mess this up?

Two examples:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=161311#p2421376

viewtopic.php?p=2666822#p2666822


Questions

Do you see what I see? (Extra blank lines displayed)

If yes, are there mistakes in the coding that cause this, some obscure error, etc?

Thanks for reading.
Last edited by digarei on Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:09 am

digarei wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:07 am
I’ve noticed that when I update an older post something causers the software to repeat each embedded blank line when displayed. This doesn’t happen every time, only occasionally. The last time was months ago and I just kept changing the content until it fixed itself but I have no idea what causes this or what I might have done that fixed it.

It becomes evident as soon as I click Preview or Submit. This seems to be a problem for me only when editing longer posts that employ numerous formatting codes. What am I doing to mess this up?

Two examples:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=161311#p2421376

viewtopic.php?p=2666822#p2666822


Questions

Do you see what I see? (Extra blank lines displayed)

If yes, are there mistakes in the coding that cause this, some obscure error, etc?

Thanks for reading.
I recently had this problem when posting a reply.
I simply could not stop the extra blank lines, but other posts did not have that.
I finally gave up, and just posted, with an apology for the spacing oddity.

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Epsilon Delta
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Epsilon Delta » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:35 am

Image

Line 1
Line 2

The line that appears to cause the problem is the above image [ img]http://I.imgur.com/65CvTmp.jpg[/img].
This may be a bug that should be reported to the phpBB maintainers. Does this only occur in the local group posts or are there other examples?

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by ResearchMed » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:48 am

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:35 am
Image

Line 1
Line 2

The line that appears to cause the problem is the above image [ img]http://I.imgur.com/65CvTmp.jpg[/img].
This may be a bug that should be reported to the phpBB maintainers. Does this only occur in the local group posts or are there other examples?
I don't post images, and it happened.

However, looking back

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=240520&p=3789775#p3789775

I had quoted a post that had an image, so that could indeed be the problem.

And... upon doing a "preview", here it is again!

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by digarei » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:07 pm

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:35 am
Image

Line 1
Line 2

The line that appears to cause the problem is the above image [ img]http://I.imgur.com/65CvTmp.jpg[/img].
This may be a bug that should be reported to the phpBB maintainers. Does this only occur in the local group posts or are there other examples?
Yes, seems like a bug that’s somehow associated with inclusion of an image. This image—and others similar have been embedded in the example post for many months and they are frequently edited. No line spacing issue until the last few days.* ResearchMed identified another post with an image from a different source, inside a quote box. (Thanks, ResearchMed!)

Here’s another example (not edited recently), different image, different thread in Local Chaps subforum:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=198432&p=3089807#p3089807

I use imgur.com for all images I insert in these posts however I’m not sure if that is the source of the problem.

* but as noted in my OP this has occurred before—months ago for a day or so; I thought it was something I did that corrected the problem but it may have been coincidental to a change in the software. Whether it originates with Imgur (and possibly other photo sites?) or is a glitch in the phpBB software I have no idea.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by nisiprius » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:11 pm

1) Yes, I've noticed this, too, and haven't tried to diagnose it or characterize it.
2) Quick test. These three lines are not separated by blank lines in the "Post A Reply" edit field.
3) This is the third line.

1) These three lines...

2) are separated by single blank lines...

3) ...in the "Post a Reply" edit field.

It didn't happen. Now, I am going to try adding an image.

Image

It happened after I added the image code and re-submitted.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Epsilon Delta » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:22 pm

Image
It
seems
clear
that
this
is due to the img tags and not any particular image.

Looking at the generated html when a post does not contain an image line breaks are encoded as "<br>" while if it does contain an image line breaks are encoded as "<br><\br>". Unless I am mistaken <\br> is not a legitimate piece of html4 while an unclosed <br> is not a legitimate piece of xhtml. I think html5 supports both, although I don't know if html5 is an official standard, yet. So this is either a version clash in the generated html, a version clash in our browser, or a standards war between competing geeks.

Given the admins stated practice of not messing with the phbBB source it is probably a bug, or a feature, of phpBB.

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by digarei » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:19 pm

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:22 pm

Looking at the generated html when a post does not contain an image line breaks are encoded as "<br>" while if it does contain an image line breaks are encoded as "<br><\br>". Unless I am mistaken <\br> is not a legitimate piece of html4 while an unclosed <br> is not a legitimate piece of xhtml. I think html5 supports both, although I don't know if html5 is an official standard, yet. So this is either a version clash in the generated html, a version clash in our browser, or a standards war between competing geeks.

Given the admins stated practice of not messing with the phbBB source it is probably a bug, or a feature, of phpBB.
Has the phpBB forum software been updated recently (on Bogleheads)? The problem wasn’t evident a week ago.

I use various Apple devices to access the forum. The extra lines appear using the Safari browser under both iOS 11.2.5 and 11.2.6 (just released). Don’t have access to MacBook at the moment.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Oicuryy » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:59 pm

Clicking this link will send this page to an HTML validator. It show end tag errors for img and br tags.

https://validator.w3.org/check/referer

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Miriam2 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:33 pm

Note - re-posted here from this other thread where I posted in error :mrgreen:

Digarei - you're also changing your font size throughout your posts. The line spacing is also likely changing along with your font size. Big fonts, a single line space is bigger (ie takes up more space). Small fonts, a single line space is smaller (ie. takes up less space). And so on. The line spacing will continue with your font size until you change the font size. At least that's how it works with Word.

Also some emogees take up line space (not character space) in the line before it, making it look like we have double spaced when we didn't.
Last edited by Miriam2 on Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Miriam2 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:34 pm

Note - this is digarei's response from the other thread :mrgreen:
Miriam2 wrote: Digarei - you're also changing your font size throughout your posts. The line spacing is also likely changing along with your font size. Big fonts, a single line space is bigger (ie takes up more space). Small fonts, a single line space is smaller (ie. takes up less space). And so on. The line spacing will continue with your font size until you change the font size. At least that's how it works with Word.

Also some emogees take up line space (not character space) in the line before it, making it look like we have double spaced when we didn't.
Thanks, Miriam2.

There may be something else going on with the line spacing related to how the phpBB software interprets images and line breaks. Not sure what to think. This double-triple line spacing thing wasn’t evident until very recently.

See this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=242204

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by nisiprius » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:42 pm

What I thought was obvious, isn't.
Oicuryy wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:59 pm
Clicking this link will send this page to an HTML validator. It show end tag errors for img and br tags.

https://validator.w3.org/check/referer

Ron
There's obviously some kind of bug in phpBB. I saw something like this a year or so ago, by the way, but it only lasted a day or so and I didn't ever get around to doing anything about it. I'm going to report this very post here, under "other" and see if I can get the moderators' attention.

I wrote:
Please bring this thread to the attention of whoever does technical stuff with phpBB. It seems there is some kind of bug in the currently-installed phpBB code that is generating slightly incorrect HTML on postings that include images. oicuryy's observation that it doesn't pass an HTML validator is the smoking gun that shows it's a phpBB issue, not a web browser issue.
If it's really a phpBB bug, I expect it will get fixed fairly soon and the only issue is alerting the admins to be ready to install the next version of phpBB fairly soon after it's released.
Last edited by nisiprius on Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Peculiar_Investor » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:00 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:42 pm
There's obviously some kind of bug in phpBB.
Check your PMs. I'm not convinced on the source of the problem.
nisiprius wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:42 pm
If it's really a phpBB bug, I expect it will get fixed fairly soon and the only issue is alerting the admins to be ready to install the next version of phpBB fairly soon after it's released.
Rest assured that the admins are well aware when phpBB releases are made available and have processes that are followed to ensure a successful update/upgrade of the BH forum. The same applies to the wiki software from MediaWiki.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:30 pm

The referenced posts are from 2015: Sacramento, CA Area Chapter - Master Thread and Sacramento, CA Area Chapter - Meeting Notes Archive

Upgrading the software always involves some form of database conversion process between the old and new versions. I'm wondering if there was a minor incompatibility during any of several forum software upgrades since then. It doesn't make sense otherwise. Conversions are never perfect (but the developers intend them to be).


As Peculiar_Investor notes, we maintain the latest versions for both the forum and wiki. Processes are followed to ensure a smooth transition.

Update: Upon further review, it may not be the upgrade process.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Oicuryy » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:01 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:30 pm
The referenced posts are from 2015: Sacramento, CA Area Chapter - Master Thread and Sacramento, CA Area Chapter - Meeting Notes Archive
It is not just old posts. The opening post in this thread from yesterday does it too.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=242145

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Epsilon Delta » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:44 pm

Oicuryy wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:01 pm
LadyGeek wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:30 pm
The referenced posts are from 2015: Sacramento, CA Area Chapter - Master Thread and Sacramento, CA Area Chapter - Meeting Notes Archive
It is not just old posts. The opening post in this thread from yesterday does it too.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=242145

Ron
As do five posts from today in this very thread. :twisted:

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Mudpuppy » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:24 am

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:22 pm
Looking at the generated html when a post does not contain an image line breaks are encoded as "<br>" while if it does contain an image line breaks are encoded as "<br><\br>". Unless I am mistaken <\br> is not a legitimate piece of html4 while an unclosed <br> is not a legitimate piece of xhtml. I think html5 supports both, although I don't know if html5 is an official standard, yet. So this is either a version clash in the generated html, a version clash in our browser, or a standards war between competing geeks.
Putting <br></br> sounds like an XML parser operating in pure XML mode instead of in XHTML mode. The valid XHTML tags for the HTML tags without closing tags should be <br/> or <img/>, either with or without a space before the / character. Browsers know what to do with <br/>, they're a little more perplexed by <br></br> and that results in wonky rendering.

Edit: The parser is also putting <img></img> tags into the code instead of <img/>. When I view source on Firefox ESR 52.6, these errant tags are marked in red.

Edit 2: Looking at the Firefox Inspector (F12), Firefox goes "huh" and ignores the </img> tag, but it converts the erroneous </br> tag into a <br> tag upon rendering. Hence the double-spacing. I would suspect there's some bug in the parser and it's just taken a while for people to notice since many threads are text-only. (Also fixed the direction of my slashes to the proper forward-slash for the erroneous code)

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by digarei » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:18 am

It seems that including an image is causing the format issues I reported. I get the impression that this isn’t considered a serious problem with the board admins and see assurances that the forum software is up to date. However, a few of my posts are now very difficult to read. So, I think the best way forward for me is to excise the offending images from my posts and avoid their use until this is resolved.

The admins have the posts in this thread as well as in others should they wish to further assess.

Thanks! :happy
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Peculiar_Investor » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:26 am

digarei wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:18 am
I get the impression that this isn’t considered a serious problem with the board admins and see assurances that the forum software is up to date.
The admins realize this is a problem and are investigating. But also remember they have day jobs too, so it might not get resolved immediately. The problem seems to be BH forum specific, not a general phpBB problem.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:42 pm

digarei wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:18 am
It seems that including an image is causing the format issues I reported. ... However, a few of my posts are now very difficult to read. So, I think the best way forward for me is to excise the offending images from my posts and avoid their use until this is resolved.
I believe there is a very good chance that when this is fixed this will be fixed retroactively. Some of the posts in this thread will look retroactively silly if that occurs :happy .

Give that some consideration if images in old posts give useful information that is of long term interest. Some images really are worth a thousand words.
In the mean time use preview if you're posting an image. An image with paragraphed text still looks reasonable. It's a bunch of short lines, or quoted images that tend to look worst.

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:28 pm

Epsilon Delta wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:44 pm
Oicuryy wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:01 pm
LadyGeek wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:30 pm
The referenced posts are from 2015: Sacramento, CA Area Chapter - Master Thread and Sacramento, CA Area Chapter - Meeting Notes Archive
It is not just old posts. The opening post in this thread from yesterday does it too.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=242145

Ron
As do five posts from today in this very thread. :twisted:
:D Long day....
Epsilon Delta wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:42 pm
I believe there is a very good chance that when this is fixed this will be fixed retroactively. Some of the posts in this thread will look retroactively silly if that occurs :happy .

Give that some consideration if images in old posts give useful information that is of long term interest. Some images really are worth a thousand words.
In the mean time use preview if you're posting an image. An image with paragraphed text still looks reasonable. It's a bunch of short lines, or quoted images that tend to look worst.
I would assume that's the case - once I find the problem. I'm not happy this got by my testing. Only in posts, only with an image followed by text.

As Peculiar_Investor notes, I have a day job. I am working on it and will report back once I see what's wrong.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Epsilon Delta » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:41 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:28 pm
As Peculiar_Investor notes, I have a day job. I am working on it and will report back once I see what's wrong.
Your efforts are appreciated.

At least on my part any discussion is trying to be helpful. Please ignore it if or shut it down if it's not helpful.

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by digarei » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:05 pm

I apologize for my poor choice of words; they appear to have set off an unfortunate reaction.

Rereading my post it does sound like a veiled criticism of the forum’s admins but that was not my intent. I don’t believe anyone was derelict in their duty. I am glad to understand that by merely deleting the image, the doubling of blank lines can be precluded. An easy to accomplish workaround.

For what it is worth, the location of the image in a post does not appear to have any bearing on whether superfluous blank lines are inserted. I tested this by moving the image from before the text at the start of the post, to the end of the post.

This may be helpful to the person or persons charged with providing an eventual solution.

There!

Now, LadyGeek can go back to her day job, I can continue to create more dubious and oddly formatted content for the Sacramento Bogleheads master thread, while the readers of this one can be assured that I hadn’t wished to stir up any consternation regarding this minor glitch.

Again, my apologies for starting this fuss. 😣
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:19 pm

No apologies are needed. I appreciate the efforts from everyone to point this out.

Moving forward, I've created a test here which reproduces the problem. No further examples are necessary, I have more than enough to work with.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by F150HD » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:22 pm

odd, this happened to me yesterday (the only time), I wasn't sure what was up.

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by siamond » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:46 pm

Yup, got the issue too. Glad to hear that the problem is under study.

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by Mudpuppy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:31 am

LadyGeek wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:19 pm
No apologies are needed. I appreciate the efforts from everyone to point this out.

Moving forward, I've created a test here which reproduces the problem. No further examples are necessary, I have more than enough to work with.
So I spent a little time looking at the phpBB support forum. I didn't see this issue specifically, but I did notice a few things. One, the whole bbcode system was changed in the 3.2.x version of phpBB, which is causing all sorts of ripple effects in other forums. Two, the bare <img> and <br> tags issue (instead of <br /> and <img />) does appear on the phpBB support forum. For example, looking at the source for https://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtop ... p=14936011 one sees:

Code: Select all

<img src="https://i.imgur.com/TKKED45.png" class="postimage" alt="Image"><br>
What I don't see on the phpBB support forum is having these bare tags paired with the XML </br> and </img> tags whenever the img bbcode is used. I know this forum takes the approach of remaining as close to stock as possible, but it's probably worth a look at the custom bbcode files to make sure the definition of the img tag was not altered in the distant past.

And just because this issue is present in old posts doesn't mean it's an old issue. phpBB has a reparser that can update old posts for changes in bbcode. I'm not sure if this forum ran the reparser after the last upgrade. But if they did, then the age of the post is no indication of when the problem began.

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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:56 pm

^^^ Thanks! Having a different set of eyes is always helpful.

The phpBB support community is where I go to get the info I need. I'm aware of the 3.2.x post reparser rewrite, as well as some problems related to BBCode compatibility.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:55 pm

The extra blanks lines have been fixed.

After some investigation, I reset a few things to straighten this out. No changes were made to the software.
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by digarei » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:31 am

LadyGeek wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:55 pm
The extra blanks lines have been fixed.

After some investigation, I reset a few things to straighten this out. No changes were made to the software.
Thank you. Makes all the difference. :happy
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Re: Blank line doubling

Post by nisiprius » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:13 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:55 pm
The extra blanks lines have been fixed.

After some investigation, I reset a few things to straighten this out. No changes were made to the software.
Yes, I just noticed a couple of minutes ago. Thank you!
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