Home Page Updated

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Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek »

Delayed, but not forgotten. The Bogleheads.org home page has been redesigned.

Layout

- The page is now a full 2-column format. Combined with the gray background, the home page is consistent with the wiki's look and feel.

- A proper site introduction has been added. This addresses a long-standing member request to help new readers understand what we do.

- The Home page tag line of "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" has been changed to "Investing Advice Inspired by John Bogle". We also changed the forum and wiki tag lines to much.

- The search engine has been relocated to the left-side column at the top of the page.

- Links to start new topics have been removed.

- A new "Contact Us" page has been added. This new page provides helpful information for both the forum and the wiki.

- The RSS feed icon is now in the page footer. A link to the support discussion has been added.

Post listings

- Links to all of the individual pages in a topic have been removed. This allows for a more compact and cleaner layout.
- In mobile mode (see below), the "First" column is not displayed in order to save space within the narrow display.

Mobile devices

Mobile devices are now supported. There is no device-specific support, only that the page layout will drop the left-side column and insert a mobile-friendly header at the top of the page.

If you want to view the full site (as a "desktop" - both columns, no header), try rotating your device to landscape. If the display width is > 600px, you'll see the desktop mode. Under 600px, it will go to mobile mode. The 600px threshold is from Google's Material design guidelines. It's the breakpoint between a handset and a tablet.

Features

The left-side column under "Bogleheads Forum", 3rd link down, will show "Login" if you are not logged in. Once you are logged in, the link changes to "View Your Posts".

Requested by the members: Topic title links now go to the first unread post (if logged in). Otherwise, the link will go to the first post in the topic.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek »

In case the home page looks a bit "weird" right now, please refresh (reload) your browser page.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by ccf »

cool :)

It looks like pinch to zoom on mobile devices is disabled. (User-scalable=no I guess?) Could it be enabled?
Last edited by ccf on Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek »

Thanks. You got it right - user scaling is disabled. In fact, scaling was why old home page text shrunk "to fit" on a mobile device. Disabling it was the key to get everything working.

Designing for a specific device takes a lot of resources - which we don't have. The idea was to get something "good enough" to work. There are some other quirks, but it's device dependent.

Update: Pinch-zoom is now enabled, see below.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by ccf »

On a phone that is 412 px wide (Google Pixel) I see this and I pan around to view the rest of the page. Should it be fitting my screen or is this normal?

[Links removed,]
Last edited by ccf on Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by ccf »

Ignore me! Now I'm getting the correct format and I'd have no reason to zoom. Everything looks good.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by One Ping »

Wow. Not a fan of the new layout on a mobile device (phone screen).

With pinch to zoom/shrink disabled it's extremely difficult to see the list of posts in any coherent way. Have to scroll left to right to make sense of anything and now it seems almost every topic name takes multiple lines which makes the subjects more difficult to read..

The old way at least I could trade type size vs acerage and size the screen visible part of the page to be the part I was interested in.

Anyway we can go back to the old design for the topic list part of the or to at least re-enable pinch to zoom/shrink?
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek »

Does rotating the phone in landscape mode help?
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by One Ping »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:13 pm Does rotating the phone in landscape mode help?
Not much ... still not a very friendly display to my eyes.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek »

Apologies. I have enabled pinch-zoom (user scaling is enabled).
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by victw »

What happened to a search of posts by the topic starter and the latest responder. Users are not highlighted and it does not look like there is a link on the user name.

Is this gone? In progress?

Thanks for the hard work - this is a fantastic site.

Vic
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by One Ping »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:32 pm Apologies. I have enabled pinch-zoom (user scaling is enabled).
Thanks LadyGeek. That helps a little ...

I like the format on my iPad. It just doesn't work as well on my android phone.

I noticed on the iPad that one can hide the explanation/descriptions at the top of the page (more/less) but that button doesn't seem to work on the phone. It looks like it is there, it just doesn't work.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by tsutsugamushi »

Would it be possible to add more details back in the default mobile view, ideally with a smaller font size? The only columns I'm seeing on my Android phone are the thread title and the date/time of the most recent post. And each title spans several lines, making it hard to scan the list. Could the number of replies be included, at a minimum? And I'd prefer the font size to be a lot smaller, closer to what you'll be reading once you actually click on a post, so that titles take up fewer lines. I'd also argue that date of the original post is more relevant to display than the date of the most recent post, when in the default view sorted by most recent, if it's not possible to include both columns.

It's true that switching to landscape mode displays all these columns, but the font is still too big, so then I see only a couple of thread titles at a time in the now-shorter display.

Thanks!
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by ccf »

One Ping wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:10 pm Have to scroll left to right to make sense of anything and now it
That was happening to me, even after I refreshed.

I use Chrome on Android and I got it to do a harder refresh by turning "request desktop site" on and off again.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by Carl53 »

How do I now get to "View my posts" in the new format? I find that I often want to look back at threads that I've commented on.

Thank you for all of your efforts.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by oldcomputerguy »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:51 pm In case the home page looks a bit "weird" right now, please refresh (reload) your browser page.
Clearing my browser cache cleared up one or two irregularities with the new home page. Looks great!
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by book lover »

Love the new look, thanks for all the work you do LadyGeek as well as all the other moderators!
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by student »

When a thread has a new post since I last read it, the title no longer goes back to blue. Is it by design?
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by Mrxyz »

I am not sure but I thought there was a way to go to the last page of a longer thread directly from the Home page. Meaning the page number were tiny clickable squares which are no longer present on the new home page.
Was that intentional?
Now, I have to click on the post and then find the page - usually last page is what I want.
Thanks for the upgrade.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek »

victw wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:37 pm What happened to a search of posts by the topic starter and the latest responder. Users are not highlighted and it does not look like there is a link on the user name.

Is this gone? In progress?

Thanks for the hard work - this is a fantastic site.

Vic
That feature was removed.
Carl53 wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:15 am How do I now get to "View my posts" in the new format? I find that I often want to look back at threads that I've commented on.

Thank you for all of your efforts.
I assume you're using a mobile device and see the header (no sidebar). "View my posts" is not in the header, but it might be worth adding.

To be clear, all changes are approved by the site owners.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek »

student wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:21 am When a thread has a new post since I last read it, the title no longer goes back to blue. Is it by design?
Yes, that feature was also in the previous home page. Actually your browser is doing the work. It knows (via a slight change in the URL) that the link has changed and modifies the color accordingly.
Mrxyz wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:28 am I am not sure but I thought there was a way to go to the last page of a longer thread directly from the Home page. Meaning the page number were tiny clickable squares which are no longer present on the new home page.
Was that intentional?
Now, I have to click on the post and then find the page - usually last page is what I want.
Thanks for the upgrade.
The clickable squares were intentionally removed. You can easily go to the first or last post of a topic by clicking on the time link under the "First" or "Last" column.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by Carl53 »

LadyGeek wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:35 am
victw wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:37 pm What happened to a search of posts by the topic starter and the latest responder. Users are not highlighted and it does not look like there is a link on the user name.

Is this gone? In progress?

Thanks for the hard work - this is a fantastic site.

Vic
That feature was removed.
Carl53 wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:15 am How do I now get to "View my posts" in the new format? I find that I often want to look back at threads that I've commented on.

Thank you for all of your efforts.
I assume you're using a mobile device and see the header (no sidebar). "View my posts" is not in the header, but it might be worth adding.

To be clear, all changes are approved by the site owners.
Actually i had not tried it with my ipad yet. Using a desktop with chrome. I see the sidebar but not "view my posts".
Just checked the ipad using safari. Same no "view my posts".
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by pondering »

I enjoy reading the comments when we make changes
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by ResearchMed »

So when one clicks on a topic, one automatically goes to the most recent post, way down on the page... with no way to easily remind oneself what the OP was?

Don't like that at all.

And the page where "all posts" are listed (and the sub-forum topic is shown by one letter on the left side)?
Looks awful.

Home page has only white background, and looks a bit like a mess.
I thought it was "in progress", not the final form.

MUCH prefer the old look, and the old functionality was fine preferably, too.
One could see the original post, scroll down a bit or not, and then click to get to the most recent post, be in a few posts down, or pages later.

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what "problem" this was all intended to fix...

Added: too much space between columns on the list of all threads.

RM
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek »

Carl53 wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:02 am
LadyGeek wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:35 am
Carl53 wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:15 am How do I now get to "View my posts" in the new format? I find that I often want to look back at threads that I've commented on.

Thank you for all of your efforts.
I assume you're using a mobile device and see the header (no sidebar). "View my posts" is not in the header, but it might be worth adding.

To be clear, all changes are approved by the site owners.
Actually i had not tried it with my ipad yet. Using a desktop with chrome. I see the sidebar but not "view my posts".
Just checked the ipad using safari. Same no "view my posts".
If you're not logged in, the sidebar will have "Login" as the 3rd bullet under "Bogleheads Forum". After you login, the link changes to "View Your Posts".
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by Oicuryy »

LadyGeek wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:39 am
student wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:21 am When a thread has a new post since I last read it, the title no longer goes back to blue. Is it by design?
Yes, that feature was also in the previous home page. Actually your browser is doing the work. It knows (via a slight change in the URL) that the link has changed and modifies the color accordingly.
Please put back the &newpost parameter on links when the user is logged in. Currently it is only on links when the user is logged out. Without it there is no visual indication that a thread has been updated since it was last read.

Ron
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by ResearchMed »

Oicuryy wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:39 am
LadyGeek wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:39 am
student wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:21 am When a thread has a new post since I last read it, the title no longer goes back to blue. Is it by design?
Yes, that feature was also in the previous home page. Actually your browser is doing the work. It knows (via a slight change in the URL) that the link has changed and modifies the color accordingly.
Please put back the &newpost parameter on links when the user is logged in. Currently it is only on links when the user is logged out. Without it there is no visual indication that a thread has been updated since it was last read.

Ron
Very much agree,,, logged in now and no way to know if there is a new post on the thread.

Thanks.

RM
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by tennisplyr »

Typeface seems much smaller, any suggestions?
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by sport »

deleted
Last edited by sport on Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by tibbitts »

Clearing my cache (multiple times for some reason - the plugin I'm using to do that isn't the most rewarding in terms of feedback) resolved my issues. Now it just looks different, not wrong.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by Carl53 »

LadyGeek wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:21 am
Carl53 wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:02 am
LadyGeek wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:35 am
Carl53 wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:15 am How do I now get to "View my posts" in the new format? I find that I often want to look back at threads that I've commented on.

Thank you for all of your efforts.
I assume you're using a mobile device and see the header (no sidebar). "View my posts" is not in the header, but it might be worth adding.

To be clear, all changes are approved by the site owners.
Actually i had not tried it with my ipad yet. Using a desktop with chrome. I see the sidebar but not "view my posts".
Just checked the ipad using safari. Same no "view my posts".
If you're not logged in, the sidebar will have "Login" as the 3rd bullet under "Bogleheads Forum". After you login, the link changes to "View Your Posts".
I was logged in earlier on desktop when it was not there but it is back. I might not have been logged in on iPad, but now find it on the side bar. Also I see it under quick links. Thanks.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek »

Oicuryy wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:39 am
LadyGeek wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:39 am
student wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:21 am When a thread has a new post since I last read it, the title no longer goes back to blue. Is it by design?
Yes, that feature was also in the previous home page. Actually your browser is doing the work. It knows (via a slight change in the URL) that the link has changed and modifies the color accordingly.
Please put back the &newpost parameter on links when the user is logged in. Currently it is only on links when the user is logged out. Without it there is no visual indication that a thread has been updated since it was last read.

Ron
Sorry, that was an oversight. It's fixed.

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Via PM, a member informed me of a grammatical error. "is comprised of" has been changed to "is composed of".
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by Oicuryy »

LadyGeek wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:57 am Sorry, that was an oversight. It's fixed.
Thanks, but, um, I think you might have put it in the wrong place in the link. I'm pretty sure the #unread needs to be after all the parameters.

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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by whodidntante »

Thanks for your work.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by retiredjg »

I think there may be a bug. This new information at the top takes up half my screen. That's pretty annoying.

I'm told there is a less/more button to eliminate that - I'm told it works on iPad, but it does not work on my MacBook (using Safari). It is apparently the little button just after "...John Bogle".

As you have time, can you see what can be done please?
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by jebmke »

retiredjg wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:46 pm I think there may be a bug. This new information at the top takes up half my screen. That's pretty annoying.

I'm told there is a less/more button to eliminate that - I'm told it works on iPad, but it does not work on my MacBook (using Safari). It is apparently the little button just after "...John Bogle".

As you have time, can you see what can be done please?
Log in with your user ID, then go back to the home page. Then clear the cache in your browser and refresh. That worked for me.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by retiredjg »

jebmke wrote:Log in with your user ID, then go back to the home page. Then clear the cache in your browser and refresh. That worked for me.
That did work for me. Thanks! :happy
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek »

Oicuryy wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:37 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:57 am Sorry, that was an oversight. It's fixed.
Thanks, but, um, I think you might have put it in the wrong place in the link. I'm pretty sure the #unread needs to be after all the parameters.

Ron
Yes, you are right and I appreciate the correction. It's fixed.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by CppCoder »

jebmke wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:50 pm
retiredjg wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:46 pm I think there may be a bug. This new information at the top takes up half my screen. That's pretty annoying.

I'm told there is a less/more button to eliminate that - I'm told it works on iPad, but it does not work on my MacBook (using Safari). It is apparently the little button just after "...John Bogle".

As you have time, can you see what can be done please?
Log in with your user ID, then go back to the home page. Then clear the cache in your browser and refresh. That worked for me.
Thanks. That worked for me too. It was nearly intolerable in both look and usability before doing that.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by Peter Foley »

Clearing the cache worked for me as well. Prior to that the print was small and the page was busy.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by mmcmonster »

On the last paragraph of the description on the top of the home page, how about making the words 'On the forum' link to index.php
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by stan1 »

Thank you for the more/less option on the site description, that helps a lot with readability.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by pennstater2005 »

I like it :sharebeer
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by Mudpuppy »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:50 pm - The Home page tag line of "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" has been changed to "Investing Advice Inspired by John Bogle". We also changed the forum and wiki tag lines to much.
Just curious, why the change from Jack to John? I know John is Mr. Bogle's legal name, but my understanding is he goes by Jack.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by greg24 »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:50 pmRequested by the members: Topic title links now go to the first unread post (if logged in). Otherwise, the link will go to the first post in the topic.
A million thanks.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by goingup »

Mudpuppy wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:30 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:50 pm - The Home page tag line of "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" has been changed to "Investing Advice Inspired by John Bogle". We also changed the forum and wiki tag lines to much.
Just curious, why the change from Jack to John? I know John is Mr. Bogle's legal name, but my understanding is he goes by Jack.
I had that reaction, too, but all his books say John C. Bogle. Wikipedia has the titling John C. (Jack) Bogle, which I thought was helpful. Many people may not know Jack is a common nickname for John.

On a similar note, I get a little piqued about adding the phrase "living below one's means" to this list of things Bogleheads emphasize. This is an investing forum, not a lifestyle forum, and that tenet is not listed in the Bogleheads Philosophy:
The Bogleheads® Philosophy
*Develop a workable plan
*Invest early and often
*Never bear too much or too little risk
*Never try to time the market
*Use index funds when possible
*Keep costs low
*Diversify
*Minimize taxes
*Keep it simple
*Stay the course

I'm not sure Jack (John C.) ever mentioned "living below one's means". It doesn't have much to do with investing. Many folks on this board can save a ton and not embrace the lifestyle idea of living especially frugally. Might just be my own quirk, but the "cheapness" thing that gets associated with Bogleheads in general, should really just apply to investing.
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Re: Home Page Updated

Post by Mel Lindauer »

goingup wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:02 pm
Mudpuppy wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:30 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:50 pm - The Home page tag line of "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" has been changed to "Investing Advice Inspired by John Bogle". We also changed the forum and wiki tag lines to much.
Just curious, why the change from Jack to John? I know John is Mr. Bogle's legal name, but my understanding is he goes by Jack.
I had that reaction, too, but all his books say John C. Bogle. Wikipedia has the titling John C. (Jack) Bogle, which I thought was helpful. Many people may not know Jack is a common nickname for John.

On a similar note, I get a little piqued about adding the phrase "living below one's means" to this list of things Bogleheads emphasize. This is an investing forum, not a lifestyle forum, and that tenet is not listed in the Bogleheads Philosophy:
The Bogleheads® Philosophy
*Develop a workable plan
*Invest early and often
*Never bear too much or too little risk
*Never try to time the market
*Use index funds when possible
*Keep costs low
*Diversify
*Minimize taxes
*Keep it simple
*Stay the course

I'm not sure Jack (John C.) ever mentioned "living below one's means". It doesn't have much to do with investing. Many folks on this board can save a ton and not embrace the lifestyle idea of living especially frugally. Might just be my own quirk, but the "cheapness" thing that gets associated with Bogleheads in general, should really just apply to investing.
Actually, living below one's means has EVERYTHING to do with investing. If you don't live below your means, there's nothing left to invest. Everything else follows that simple (but vital) statement.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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goingup
Posts: 3995
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:02 pm

Re: Home Page Updated

Post by goingup »

Mel Lindauer wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:45 pm
goingup wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:02 pm
Mudpuppy wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:30 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:50 pm - The Home page tag line of "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" has been changed to "Investing Advice Inspired by John Bogle". We also changed the forum and wiki tag lines to much.
Just curious, why the change from Jack to John? I know John is Mr. Bogle's legal name, but my understanding is he goes by Jack.
I had that reaction, too, but all his books say John C. Bogle. Wikipedia has the titling John C. (Jack) Bogle, which I thought was helpful. Many people may not know Jack is a common nickname for John.

On a similar note, I get a little piqued about adding the phrase "living below one's means" to this list of things Bogleheads emphasize. This is an investing forum, not a lifestyle forum, and that tenet is not listed in the Bogleheads Philosophy:
The Bogleheads® Philosophy
*Develop a workable plan
*Invest early and often
*Never bear too much or too little risk
*Never try to time the market
*Use index funds when possible
*Keep costs low
*Diversify
*Minimize taxes
*Keep it simple
*Stay the course

I'm not sure Jack (John C.) ever mentioned "living below one's means". It doesn't have much to do with investing. Many folks on this board can save a ton and not embrace the lifestyle idea of living especially frugally. Might just be my own quirk, but the "cheapness" thing that gets associated with Bogleheads in general, should really just apply to investing.
Actually, living below one's means has EVERYTHING to do with investing. If you don't live below your means, there's nothing left to invest. Everything else follows that simple (but vital) statement.
When I wrote my post I thought of you Mel, because I know you feel that way. :happy I think we may disagree on this point. Many BHs can save 30% or more for retirement and live a terrifically comfortable lifestyle. Living below one's means may not even enter into their mindset. They save what they need to and spend the rest. To me, the Boglehead mentality has to do with investing wisely, and not overpaying for investment products or advice, along with all the other critical points of the stated philosophy.

I equate the "living below one's means" idea with austerity or sacrifice. Maybe I'm coming at this from a different mindset than others, but Bogleheads philosophy (to me) is just about dispatching the money you have already decided to save. No vows of poverty needed.

*I say all of the above with great deference to you, knowing who you are and with great appreciation for everything that this site is!
FactualFran
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Home Page Updated

Post by FactualFran »

Please consider changing the "# Replies" column from being centered to right justified. Example, instead of the first few columns being like

Code: Select all

163  p  I own no international stocks. Can you guess why? ...
 8   p  Keep Home or Upgrade?
have them be like

Code: Select all

163  p  I own no international stocks. Can you guess why? ...
  8  p  Keep Home or Upgrade?
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 11226
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Home Page Updated

Post by ResearchMed »

goingup wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:37 pm
Mel Lindauer wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:45 pm
goingup wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:02 pm
Mudpuppy wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:30 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:50 pm - The Home page tag line of "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" has been changed to "Investing Advice Inspired by John Bogle". We also changed the forum and wiki tag lines to much.
Just curious, why the change from Jack to John? I know John is Mr. Bogle's legal name, but my understanding is he goes by Jack.
I had that reaction, too, but all his books say John C. Bogle. Wikipedia has the titling John C. (Jack) Bogle, which I thought was helpful. Many people may not know Jack is a common nickname for John.

On a similar note, I get a little piqued about adding the phrase "living below one's means" to this list of things Bogleheads emphasize. This is an investing forum, not a lifestyle forum, and that tenet is not listed in the Bogleheads Philosophy:
The Bogleheads® Philosophy
*Develop a workable plan
*Invest early and often
*Never bear too much or too little risk
*Never try to time the market
*Use index funds when possible
*Keep costs low
*Diversify
*Minimize taxes
*Keep it simple
*Stay the course

I'm not sure Jack (John C.) ever mentioned "living below one's means". It doesn't have much to do with investing. Many folks on this board can save a ton and not embrace the lifestyle idea of living especially frugally. Might just be my own quirk, but the "cheapness" thing that gets associated with Bogleheads in general, should really just apply to investing.
Actually, living below one's means has EVERYTHING to do with investing. If you don't live below your means, there's nothing left to invest. Everything else follows that simple (but vital) statement.
When I wrote my post I thought of you Mel, because I know you feel that way. :happy I think we may disagree on this point. Many BHs can save 30% or more for retirement and live a terrifically comfortable lifestyle. Living below one's means may not even enter into their mindset. They save what they need to and spend the rest. To me, the Boglehead mentality has to do with investing wisely, and not overpaying for investment products or advice, along with all the other critical points of the stated philosophy.

I equate the "living below one's means" idea with austerity or sacrifice. Maybe I'm coming at this from a different mindset than others, but Bogleheads philosophy (to me) is just about dispatching the money you have already decided to save. No vows of poverty needed.

*I say all of the above with great deference to you, knowing who you are and with great appreciation for everything that this site is!
Agree. We consider it important to live WITHIN one's means.
And that includes any savings necessary, such as for retirement, for college, for travel or hobbies... anything that can't be cash-flowed.
And cash-flowing special experiences or things is also included in living *within* one's means.

And fully enjoying those experiences :happy

RM
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