New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

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vested1
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New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:40 am

[Thread updated, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

Please bear with me. A glance at the number of topics and posts in the various main page of these forums shows the popularity of those categories. In hopes that this topic is not moved to Forum Issues and Administration, where it might languish, I would like the opinion of non-Admin as well as Admin members on the following suggestion. I've been on website admin boards in the past and can appreciate the value of keeping main topics to a minimum, and not constantly shuffling the structure of the Board. Being a relatively new member I approach with hat in hand, broaching something that may very well have been asked and answered before.

I would like to see a main topic of "Retirement Planning and Execution" or something similar. I may have a bias in that regard because I am retiring this year (perhaps as early as this coming Monday). However, the interest of a great number of members revolves around retirement issues, both in pre-retirement and post-retirement. Investing for that eventuality is foremost in the mind of most here in my opinion.

It is somewhat difficult to wade through topics or search key words in various sub-forums to discover an answer to a question that may arise, and although starting a new topic is always an option, it remains a question as to which sub-forum is most appropriate for the subject matter. I believe that a main topic revolving around retirement issues of financial planning, and the execution of that plan would add value to these forums, and could be wildly popular. Those who are decades away from retirement might be better served by the existing sub-forums in most cases, but could gain insight from a sharp focus on what other, more experienced members have to say on the subject of retirement.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by livesoft » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:04 am

My opinion is that it is not really needed. Indeed, none of the subforums are needed. The wiki provides a breakdown of various topics with almost all questions already discussed and answered in the wiki. The Wiki might need a better index and organization because it is hard to find things in it.

But the forum itself ... almost all things discussed on a daily basis have to do with retirement planning: taxes, rebalancing, asset allocation, asset location, market timing, cash, social security, pensions, annuities, whole life insurance, Roths, IRAs, 401(k)s, wills, advisors, in-laws, etc.

And I am retired.
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vested1
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:25 am

And I'm joining you post haste.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:15 am

This thread is now in the Forum Issues and Administration forum (request for new sub-forum).

I won't belabor all of the valid administrative reasons the OP has already mentioned.

The bottom line is that you are depending on both the members and administrators / moderators to properly categorize a topic. There are far too many cases where discussions will fall into several, not to mention all of the disagreements on how to classify the categories.

For example, this discussion was in the Personal Finance forum, but it's really a forum administration topic.

The wiki, which uses the same software as Wikipedia, solves this dilemma by allowing as many categories as you need. It also provides linking to relevant pages. You can't do that in this environment. We're not going to add tags, which increases maintenance.

The most workable solution is to use the search function.

If something is really out of alignment with the existing sub-forums, members can report the post (the "!") in the top right corner. One of the reasons is Wrong Forum. Actually, someone was kind enough to do just that for this discussion. Thanks.
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by jhawktx » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:19 am

I 100% agree there should be a Retirement Planning section. Alas, it sadly won't happen.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by bertilak » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:57 am

I too was in favor of a separate retirement topic. Probably because I got involved with BH in early retirement.

I have since come to realize that would add to the confusion rather than help. Even if a post "obviously" would belong in the hypothetical retirement category, the person making the opening post often would not see that.

Perhaps that sticky Asking Portfolio Questions in Help with Personal Investments could help. Today the sticky says, right near the top:
  • When you have researched your retirement plan options and have a list of your current investments, it is time to post.
It's not just that sentence; the overall tone is that Help with Personal Investments is all about retirement. So, if anything, perhaps a NON-retirement topic is what is needed! (note the "if")

The sticky could be a little more general and could, perhaps, request that something about retirement status be placed near the top of any question. For example "X years to retirement at age Y" or retired now for X years" or even "this post is about investing for college/legacy/new house/etc." (Just brainstorming)
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:40 am

As expected, less than 2 hours before having this thread moved to the hinterlands. I completely understand, and actually agree that it should be here. I was merely attempting to get some visibility for the topic and to garner comments, and not trying to game the system.

I continue to encourage others to comment, but respectfully disagree that retirement planning is unworthy of it's own category.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by Toons » Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:41 am

I don't think it is really necessary.
I have found the search feature on site to be invaluable when seeking information pertaining to a particular subject. :happy
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by peppers » Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:46 am

"..the cavalry ain't comin' kid, you're on your own..."

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by Peculiar_Investor » Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:56 am

vested1 wrote:As expected, less than 2 hours before having this thread moved to the hinterlands.
I'm curious why you consider this forum as 'the hinderlands'? New posts/topics in this forum are just as visible and in any other forum are they not?

Did you know that this topic comes up periodically? Search found New Forum for Retirement Issues suggestion (which contains other previous topic links) and We need a new forum just for retirement issues
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vested1
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:27 pm

Peculiar_Investor wrote:
vested1 wrote:As expected, less than 2 hours before having this thread moved to the hinterlands.
I'm curious why you consider this forum as 'the hinderlands'? New posts/topics in this forum are just as visible and in any other forum are they not?

Did you know that this topic comes up periodically? Search found New Forum for Retirement Issues suggestion (which contains other previous topic links) and We need a new forum just for retirement issues
No I didn't know this subject comes up periodically, and yes I know that anyone can click anywhere they want to. However, my point is still valid in that fewer members visit here than all but "Local Chapters". Surely I'm not the only one who had this thought, proven by the fact that it continues to be raised.

I'm not organizing a rally, just asking for opinions. It appears that every time someone brings it up there is a circling of the wagons (he ducks as an arrow passes closely overhead). Since it garnered no support it's no big deal.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by earlyout » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:38 pm

I don't know the percentage but I think most viewers start with the Boglehead.org page where the threads of the different Boglehead forums are mixed together and all new posting are seen by many viewers. Using this page makes it easy to skip something that does not appear interesting and it is much quicker to scan through all the new postings in one place.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by Peter Foley » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:39 pm

I too would favor this as a separate index topic. It currently overlaps a couple of other topics and it is not clear from the descriptors where some retirement planning issues fall. They could be in investing or personal finance.

Yes I am aware that one can search and/or scroll. Not everyone is interested in all topics and with the number of new threads every day, some threads drop off the page fairly quickly.

I've been here for a few years and can certainly use the forum as is. I would consider this a "want", not a "need."

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:08 pm

Peter Foley wrote:I too would favor this as a separate index topic. It currently overlaps a couple of other topics and it is not clear from the descriptors where some retirement planning issues fall. They could be in investing or personal finance.

Yes I am aware that one can search and/or scroll. Not everyone is interested in all topics and with the number of new threads every day, some threads drop off the page fairly quickly.

I've been here for a few years and can certainly use the forum as is. I would consider this a "want", not a "need."
Thank you Peter, I was beginning to feel like the Lone Ranger. What I find curious is the defensiveness I find on these forums at times, as if the existing structure or lock step agreement with classic Bogle doctrine is sacrosanct, and that offering a small suggestion is paramount to heresy. I'm not suggesting that those responses come from Admin, because they do not. I find the admins to be thoughtful and just.

Another pet peeve for me is the penchant of some to point out that "this" has been discussed before, which would be helpful if not presented in an impatient manner, as if the OP should have known that entering an abstract search containing five or six words in exact order would have resulted in no need for repetition of the topic. Others who point out previously discussed topics are more understanding. Newsflash: some of us have not been here from the inception of this site, and should be excused for our lack of total knowledge of what topics have been beaten to death. Some may even have had difficulty finding the subject in an earlier thread because they are coming at it from a slightly different angle.

I've read all the other threads that were provided here and see the same core of members advocating what I have. While I bear no resemblance to Don Quixote I will continue to add my voice of agreement to those who raise it whenever this subject comes up.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by FreeAtLast » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:28 pm

I like your spirit, vested1! "Do not go gentle into that good night" (with apologies to Dylan Thomas).

I am not suggesting here that you are on your last legs; rather, that I respect someone who refuses to back down and firmly continues to proclaim a minority position. Must be the Irish side of me.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by dwickenh » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:28 pm

My 2 cents worth, I would also be intrigued with a separate Retirement Planning Index. I seem to search through many comments looking for ones that would most help me close to retirement.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by Mick » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:28 am

There are separate index topics? I just scroll through the list of new posts and read the ones I am interested in. Never cared where they were originally posted. If looking for something I use search as I don't want to wade through hundreds of unrelated posts. The only time I worry about the separate index topics is when starting a new thread as the board requires it.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by livesoft » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:33 am

Peter Foley wrote:I too would favor this as a separate index topic. It currently overlaps a couple of other topics and it is not clear from the descriptors where some retirement planning issues fall. They could be in investing or personal finance.
I've always thought that the Investing and Personal Finance forums should be combined.
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by DaftInvestor » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:43 am

I like the current 4 main topics - there are retirement topics under each and many personal investing, investing theory, and personal finance topics can be for retirement or many other investment/finance purposes so to me the current breakdown makes the most sense. Personally I review the full list anyway so it makes little difference to me.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by runner9 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:39 am

earlyout wrote:I don't know the percentage but I think most viewers start with the Boglehead.org page where the threads of the different Boglehead forums are mixed together and all new posting are seen by many viewers. Using this page makes it easy to skip something that does not appear interesting and it is much quicker to scan through all the new postings in one place.
+1, only speaking for myself, the main page it the only way I get to new threads. Doesn't matter what forum they are in, they're in order by latest post.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:19 am

Well, I suppose there was some value in this request after all. I learned that many go here to view the most recent posts.
https://www.bogleheads.org/ Whereas I always start here index.php

It may be just aesthetics, or a bias for familiarity, but the former seems chaotic, where the latter appeals to the organized side of my personality. Another point: Why would anyone assume that either would be the starting point for a discussion search?

IMHO, I shouldn't need a legend at the lower left portion of the screen to decipher which forum the comment is residing in.

Playing Devil's Advocate :twisted: :

Problem: Why should I have to peruse the 176 (yes I counted them) most recent posts in every category, scanning for something that would peak my interest?
Solution: Never go offline and have http://www.bogleheads.org on a separate tab at all times, checking back frequently to re-scan.

Problem: What if, God forbid, I got busy, had to leave my computer, and wasn't able to get back online before that 177th comment was posted that answered a question I didn't know I even had?
Solution: Don't get busy.

(Deleted)

Problem: What if, after being unable to find the answer to a question I had about retirement planning or the execution of my plan, I threw caution to the wind and started a new topic, hoping against hope that I was in the appropriate sub-forum, so as not to be reminded that I should have somehow known that "this has been discussed before" (how's that for a run on sentence?).
Solution: See last solution.

But I digress. I'm interested primarily in retirement issues because I'm on the edge of the virtual cliff, teetering at the precipice. So sue me. :sharebeer
Last edited by vested1 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:38 am

DaftInvestor wrote:I like the current 4 main topics - there are retirement topics under each and many personal investing, investing theory, and personal finance topics can be for retirement or many other investment/finance purposes so to me the current breakdown makes the most sense. Personally I review the full list anyway so it makes little difference to me.
There are six main topics, and you are in the 6th, or the "Hinterlands" I referred to earlier before receiving my well-deserved comeuppance. :oops:

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:01 am

Deleted
Last edited by vested1 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:01 am

vested1 wrote:Problem: Why should I have to peruse the 176 (yes I counted them) most recent posts in every category, scanning for something that would peak my interest?
Solution: Never go offline and have http://www.bogleheads.org on a separate tab at all times, checking back frequently to re-scan.
You have another option - the RSS feed. We have an RSS feed? Yup.

Go to the top right corner of the home page and click on the RSS icon. You'll get the most recent 50 posts over the last 12 hours.

Here's the direct link: Image

The feed works in FireFox just fine, but Chrome seems to have a problem with it.
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:19 am

LadyGeek wrote:
vested1 wrote:Problem: Why should I have to peruse the 176 (yes I counted them) most recent posts in every category, scanning for something that would peak my interest?
Solution: Never go offline and have http://www.bogleheads.org on a separate tab at all times, checking back frequently to re-scan.
You have another option - the RSS feed. We have an RSS feed? Yup.

Go to the top right corner of the home page and click on the RSS icon. You'll get the most recent 50 posts over the last 12 hours.

Here's the direct link: Image

The feed works in FireFox just fine, but Chrome seems to have a problem with it.
It works on my browser, and adds another option. Thanks LadyGeek, you are truly a gem! (seriously)

Now, instead of fewer options I have more. Decisions, decisions. Where to look for retirement discussions... Is it here, is it there, is it hither and yon? :wink:

Let's see, either the latest 50 comments in the RSS feed, the latest 176 comments at bogleheads.org, or in 167,357 total combined topics on the index page in 6 sub-forums. Time for a nap. :?

Edited for math - not my strong suit.
Last edited by vested1 on Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by digarei » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:27 am

vested1 wrote:
Peculiar_Investor wrote:
vested1 wrote:As expected, less than 2 hours before having this thread moved to the hinterlands.
I'm curious why you consider this forum as 'the hinderlands'? New posts/topics in this forum are just as visible and in any other forum are they not?

Did you know that this topic comes up periodically? Search found New Forum for Retirement Issues suggestion (which contains other previous topic links) and We need a new forum just for retirement issues
No I didn't know this subject comes up periodically, and yes I know that anyone can click anywhere they want to. However, my point is still valid in that fewer members visit here than all but "Local Chapters". Surely I'm not the only one who had this thought, proven by the fact that it continues to be raised.

I'm not organizing a rally, just asking for opinions. It appears that every time someone brings it up there is a circling of the wagons (he ducks as an arrow passes closely overhead). Since it garnered no support it's no big deal.
Exec. Summary

• I think the formation of a new sub-forum that focuses on 'Retirement' is long overdue.

• Advocates for a separate Retirement sub-forum, if serious, should press their case.

• The merger of the 'Personal Finance' and 'Investing Help' sub-forums merits further discussion.

• Local Chapters and Forum Admin are self-evidently the poor relations: they get respect but few visitors.



Retirement sub-forum proposal

I never use the main page Bogleheads.org, preferring the phpBB interface and subforum organization. I suspect I'm not alone in having a favorite sub-forum, which I visit first and give most of my attention to ("Investing - Theory"). Next, 'Personal Finance' and 'Investing - Help'. Occasionally I'll read 'Personal Consumer' threads. 'Local Chaps' gets read in between the others.

Some members of this forum visit EarlyRetirement and other alternatives. I'm on Bogleheads everyday for 2-3 hours or longer and still do not have time to read everything posted. So, I am unable to read other retirement forums. If a Retirement sub-forum were to be established, it would likely supplant 'Investing Theory' as my first stop.

However, I wonder how much willingness there is to make this happen:

"Since it garnered no support it's no big deal"

I'd recommend making it a big deal if you wish to attract supporters and persuade those who have already vocalized opposition. If the board's management had declared the proposal impossible or mutinous, that would be sufficient reason to stand down. But I haven't read that a decision has been made on this matter. Change is hard. I found the 2012 thread persuasive when I read it last year. Perhaps the proponents should consider mustering the arguments found in that thread, select the strongest and present them. Just like investing, to reach your goal, have a plan and be persistent. (OK I'll shut up now)

Hinterlands?

As a member of a local BHs chapter, I read a lot in the 'Local Chapters' sub-forum but there's no question—along with 'Forum Issues', it IS the hinterlands! I checked a few moments ago: Out of a total of ~350 registered members/guests, there were only two (2) (count 'em!) guests logged into 'Forum Issues'—and the same number in 'Local Chapters'. The other sub-forums were being viewed by many more, between 45 and 120. That's consistent with what I've noted at other times in Local Chaps.... almost always less than 1%.

(To be clear, I am not lobbying to have either sub-forum removed!)


As CFS likes to say, "Thanks for reading."
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:54 am

digarei wrote: I'd recommend making it a big deal if you wish to attract supporters and persuade those who have already vocalized opposition. If the board's management had declared the proposal impossible or mutinous, that would be sufficient reason to stand down. But I haven't read that a decision has been made on this matter. Change is hard. I found the 2012 thread persuasive when I read it last year. Perhaps the proponents should consider mustering the arguments found in that thread, select the strongest and present them. Just like investing, to reach your goal, have a plan and be persistent. (OK I'll shut up now)
I don't have the energy at the moment, but may participate after next week's events where I'll likely quit or be fired. 70 hours in 5 days only to be told at 4 pm on Friday that I need to work another 12 on Saturday 120 miles away to supervise our contractor who will be there supervising his sub-contractor during routine construction that is inconsequential. A calm "No" was my response, met with disbelief. There's that rebel attitude again. I'm in California too BTW.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by Peculiar_Investor » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:07 am

vested1 wrote:Well, I suppose there was some value in this request after all. I learned that many go here to view the most recent posts.
https://www.bogleheads.org/ Whereas I always start here index.php
Those are common, but there are more ways than that. Here are the ones that I know about.

Board index - AFAIK this is the only one that organizes based on the forum structure. This is available to guests and logged in members.

All of the rest that I'll present are based on activity rather than forum structure, although the underlying forum information is presented as part of the information. All but the RSS feed one are available under the Quick links navigation bar item (top left beside the Image FAQ and Image Forum rules)
  • Active topics view -- there are two ways: http://www.bogleheads.org or View active topics. The forum is the original Bogleheads viewport into the M* forums, custom built by the founders, the latter is the forum software near equivalent. This view is also available to guests and logged in members.
  • Your posts - only available to logged in members.
  • New posts - only available to logged in members.
  • Unread posts - only available to logged in members.
  • Unanswered posts - available to both guests and logged in members.
  • RSS feed - available to both guests and logged in members.
The amount and organization of the data for these views are under logged in member control, check your User Control Panel-> Display options

Personally I've got a couple of different ones bookmarked. I tend to use Your posts when I first visit to see if there's any new activity on topics I've posted in. I'll use View active topics to get a sense of pulse of current events and read topics of interest, then generally I switch to Board index. If I haven't visited for a while, I'll use Board index.

Almost bottom line, there are many different ways for members to view the topics and posts here, many don't follow the follow the forum structure. Different strokes for different folks. As Mick writes:
Mick wrote: The only time I worry about the separate index topics is when starting a new thread as the board requires it.
I'd concur that's really the only time the forum structure truly matters.

I'll leave the bottom line to Alex from a previous discussion
Alex Frakt wrote:We will not be adding a separate forum at this time. There are several reasons for this. Most importantly, I believe it is an artificial distinction. The investing issues of retirees are germane to all investors. Likewise, the information found in discussions of the investments of people still in the accumulation stage is potentially useful to retirees. Segregating the two groups would do a disservice to both.

A secondary issue is that it appears that one impetus behind this request is to allow greater discussion of topics that are currently in violation of our forum policies. As we have said over and over again, we will not be allowing political discussions on this site - in any form or any forum. Given that we will not allow such discussion, the proposed subforum would necessarily be about investing, which brings us back to the point made above.
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by DaftInvestor » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:28 am

I'd vote in favor of a new "market timing" Category making it easier to ignore those threads (such as the recent "Who else is holding cash [for market timing... ]" thread). :)

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:31 am

Peculiar_Investor wrote:
Alex Frakt wrote:We will not be adding a separate forum at this time. There are several reasons for this. Most importantly, I believe it is an artificial distinction. The investing issues of retirees are germane to all investors. Likewise, the information found in discussions of the investments of people still in the accumulation stage is potentially useful to retirees. Segregating the two groups would do a disservice to both.

A secondary issue is that it appears that one impetus behind this request is to allow greater discussion of topics that are currently in violation of our forum policies. As we have said over and over again, we will not be allowing political discussions on this site - in any form or any forum. Given that we will not allow such discussion, the proposed subforum would necessarily be about investing, which brings us back to the point made above.
I agree that discussions on politics or religion should be taboo due to their volatile nature, but that issue was not raised on this thread. (Deleted) Members (should be) allowed to voice their opinion and to raise their hands when they think something can be improved.

The issue is very straightforward: Should there be a forum dedicated to a sharp focus on retirement issues having to do with investing for that eventuality, with advice or questions for those who are interested in the topic? As with all other sub-forums, no discussion of politics or religion is allowed.
Last edited by vested1 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:03 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:32 am

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by Mudpuppy » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:27 pm

vested1 wrote:Problem: What if I was unable to formulate the perfect phrase for the search box that would result in the perfect result for a previously discussed topic?
Solution: Be perfect.
The search box at the top right corner of every post and the phpBB index page uses Google, which is quite adept at finding synonyms and related searches. So one does not have to be perfect at developing a search phrase to land in close proximity to other data, as long as one doesn't over-think the problem. Start with a simple, short phrase and let Google do it's thing to find related information for you.

And I would politely suggest you take a moment to pause and reflect. Some of your posts on this thread are veering dangerously close to inflamed words territory. And that leads only to flame wars, not productive conversation. So please refrain from trying to categorize all posters, particularly with the four inflammatory categories you listed this morning, or from using excessively flowery (and unflattering) language to describe previous decisions made by Alex and other forum administrators. It detracts from your message and will ultimately lead to the thread being closed for being non-productive.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:22 am

Mudpuppy wrote:
vested1 wrote:Problem: What if I was unable to formulate the perfect phrase for the search box that would result in the perfect result for a previously discussed topic?
Solution: Be perfect.
The search box at the top right corner of every post and the phpBB index page uses Google, which is quite adept at finding synonyms and related searches. So one does not have to be perfect at developing a search phrase to land in close proximity to other data, as long as one doesn't over-think the problem. Start with a simple, short phrase and let Google do it's thing to find related information for you.

And I would politely suggest you take a moment to pause and reflect. Some of your posts on this thread are veering dangerously close to inflamed words territory. And that leads only to flame wars, not productive conversation. So please refrain from trying to categorize all posters, particularly with the four inflammatory categories you listed this morning, or from using excessively flowery (and unflattering) language to describe previous decisions made by Alex and other forum administrators. It detracts from your message and will ultimately lead to the thread being closed for being non-productive.
Duly noted. I removed portions of my comments (in bold and red) and apologize to any who may have been offended. I wanted to revive this topic for any who may have had their thought curtailed by your appropriate scolding of my attempt at misplaced humor. I have great respect for all the Admins, including Alex, which I believe I mentioned in an earlier comment.

Once again, I find myself searching in vain at times for retirement related topics that reside in different sub-forums. I don't need a lesson on how to use the search functions, as many here have already pointed out the various options available.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by Dottie57 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:12 pm

vested1 wrote:
Mudpuppy wrote:
vested1 wrote:Problem: What if I was unable to formulate the perfect phrase for the search box that would result in the perfect result for a previously discussed topic?
Solution: Be perfect.
Once again, I find myself searching in vain at times for retirement related topics that reside in different sub-forums. I don't need a lesson on how to use the search functions, as many here have already pointed out the various options available.
I know I need more infornation about the years right before and after retirement. What are the areas to consider. Planning for taxes, SS and medicare. Emotional security. Where to live.


I know some of these are throughout the forums. But it would be good to have a really focused topic on the "red zone".

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by bertilak » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:03 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
I know I need more infornation about the years right before and after retirement. What are the areas to consider. Planning for taxes, SS and medicare. Emotional security. Where to live.


I know some of these are throughout the forums. But it would be good to have a really focused topic on the "red zone".
  • Think in terms of income and how that will cover expenses, more than NAV.
  • Think about the difference between non-negotiable expenses (e.g. food, shelter) and discretionary expenses (e.g hobbies, travel). Income to cover non-negotiable expenses needs to be guaranteed, or at least highly reliable.
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:14 pm

The wiki has some background info: Preparing for retirement
Dottie57 wrote:I know I need more infornation about the years right before and after retirement. What are the areas to consider. Planning for taxes, SS and medicare. Emotional security. Where to live.
Everything except "Where to live" can be discussed in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum.

"Where to live" can be discussed in Personal Consumer Issues forum, as this topic covers much more than the financial aspects.
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by RyeWhiskey » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:50 pm

As someone who has administrated/moderated large forums before, I can say from years of experience that sub-forums and additional forums do not aid with overall usability. In fact, they tend to clutter the board as a whole and threads die in smaller forums where they'd otherwise be active. I think the current setup is very economical (no pun intended) and serves the needs of the user-base well. Just my two cents. :beer
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by bayview » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:12 am

RyeWhiskey wrote:As someone who has administrated/moderated large forums before, I can say from years of experience that sub-forums and additional forums do not aid with overall usability. In fact, they tend to clutter the board as a whole and threads die in smaller forums where they'd otherwise be active. I think the current setup is very economical (no pun intended) and serves the needs of the user-base well. Just my two cents. :beer
Absolutely agree with the unintended consequences of adding sub-forums. While a specific sub-forum can be a good way of finding quick answers, you'll never know what you missed in other locations.

Another thing I found from my days moderating a (non-BH) large forum is that the good threads, the ones that get people posting and discussing and comparing and encouraging, tend to bring in multiple topics and would be impossible to assign to a relatively narrow sub-forum. I would have found myself moving a hot thread 2-3 times a day to a new forum, depending on the most recent shift in topic.

I saw the mention of the wiki above, and I agree that the wiki can be invaluable. But it's surprising how many people start by reading 2-3 different sub-forums and never really go on exploring. Perhaps there could be a thread discussing "Essentials for Retirement" that could be stickied on an existing forum that would capture the basics --pensions, 401k's, annuities, Social Security, where to live, Medicare vs commercial insurance, and the rest. A nice opportunity to provide links to topics in the wiki, btw. 8-)
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by TheTimeLord » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:23 am

vested1 wrote:Please bear with me. A glance at the number of topics and posts in the various main page of these forums shows the popularity of those categories. In hopes that this topic is not moved to Forum Issues and Administration, where it might languish, I would like the opinion of non-Admin as well as Admin members on the following suggestion. I've been on website admin boards in the past and can appreciate the value of keeping main topics to a minimum, and not constantly shuffling the structure of the Board. Being a relatively new member I approach with hat in hand, broaching something that may very well have been asked and answered before.

I would like to see a main topic of "Retirement Planning and Execution" or something similar. I may have a bias in that regard because I am retiring this year (perhaps as early as this coming Monday). However, the interest of a great number of members revolves around retirement issues, both in pre-retirement and post-retirement. Investing for that eventuality is foremost in the mind of most here in my opinion.

It is somewhat difficult to wade through topics or search key words in various sub-forums to discover an answer to a question that may arise, and although starting a new topic is always an option, it remains a question as to which sub-forum is most appropriate for the subject matter. I believe that a main topic revolving around retirement issues of financial planning, and the execution of that plan would add value to these forums, and could be wildly popular. Those who are decades away from retirement might be better served by the existing sub-forums in most cases, but could gain insight from a sharp focus on what other, more experienced members have to say on the subject of retirement.
Properly done topics encourage specific conversations on topics of interest or value. Personally, I would love to see 2 new index topics Early Retirement - Pre Social Security (or Pre-FRA) and Traditional Retirement - Post Social Security (or FRA). There are many differences between the 2 in planning and having a set of threads easily accessible in one location would hopefully be efficient and reduce repetitive questions.
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by vested1 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:15 am

Reading the Wiki is valuable but far different than being able to ask and answer questions that arise without doing an exhaustive but unsuccessful search, only to find yourself being chastised by members who tell you it has been discussed before elsewhere. Several responses here focus on the plight of admin with the possible addition of retirement topics. As stated earlier, I am aware of the difficulties in adding complexity, having been on the admin board of other forums. However, a forum is created to serve a purpose and is, after all, for the benefit of the members.

Retirement and SS are recurring subjects that deserve special attention IMHO, simply due to the fact that all members must make decisions concerning them. Individual savings strategies and myriad other subjects that surface may not appeal to a majority of members, while retirement and SS issues affect everyone.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:17 am

I'm in the "leave things alone" camp as I have my hands full just trying to keep the existing forum structure organized.

One of the most common errors is to post a consumer issue discussion in the personal finance forum. For example: Internet/WiFi speeds and costs - I'm not picking on this member, it's just the latest of many.*

A long time ago, the members requested that I post in a thread whenever it was moved. Otherwise, they could not find it. Searching for "this thread is now in" LadyGeek site:bogleheads.org shows I've moved 2,470 threads since I started posting the moves.

Going to an even finer resolution on topics will complicate things even more, especially when a discussion spans several topics.

======================
* I should point out that we have "Post a new topic" on the bogleheads.org home (left-side menu). The "personal consumer issue" selection was intentionally left out. Why? This is an investing forum - consumer issues are secondary.

The consumer issues are intended for members who are new to investing. They may feel intimidated about investing (this stuff is complicated), so we provide consumer topics as a way to make them feel comfortable contributing to the forum. Hopefully, they'll eventually work up enough confidence to ask investing questions.

To start a new consumer topic, go to the Personal Consumer Issues forum and select New Topic.
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by Sidney » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:19 am

I don't even look at which forum a posting is in. I pretty much go by the subject.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by JPH » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:23 am

^^^^
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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by convert949 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:40 am

Peter Foley wrote:I too would favor this as a separate index topic. It currently overlaps a couple of other topics and it is not clear from the descriptors where some retirement planning issues fall. They could be in investing or personal finance.

Yes I am aware that one can search and/or scroll. Not everyone is interested in all topics and with the number of new threads every day, some threads drop off the page fairly quickly.

I've been here for a few years and can certainly use the forum as is. I would consider this a "want", not a "need."
+1

To me, even if we concentrate on "investing" and not "planning", the issues for retirees are different than those in the accumulation phase. I find it increasingly difficult to digest some advice from the forum as you have no idea where the poster is coming from. Lots of good advice if you have 60 years to go and 30 years until your first withdrawal is not so good if you have 30 years to go and are living off your investments.

Just saying...

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Re: New Board Index Topic - Retirement Planning

Post by KlangFool » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:33 am

Mick wrote:There are separate index topics? I just scroll through the list of new posts and read the ones I am interested in. Never cared where they were originally posted. If looking for something I use search as I don't want to wade through hundreds of unrelated posts. The only time I worry about the separate index topics is when starting a new thread as the board requires it.
+1

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More Attention To Retirees' Portfolios

Post by Munir » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:06 am

[Thread merged into here, see below. --admin LadyGeek]

I am disappointed that most of the threads and discussions on this forum relate primarily to those investors in the accumulation phase. Comments center more on the 60/40 or 100/0 allocations and everything in between. Retirees with less that 40% equity holdings get short shrift and usually are mentioned in passing only. Retirees usually don't have a long term horizon that most of the advice here is about. As an 80 year old, I'm reaching the stage that when I see the term "hold for the long term", I turn off. Do we need a forum, or a section of this forum, dealing primarily with retirees in addition to the main forum which primarily is for accumulators? Ideas or suggestions?

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Re: More Attention To Retirees' Portfolios

Post by grandmacassie » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:14 am

I second that idea. DH and I will begin the "decumulation" phase on 1/1/2020. It would be nice to have a subforum related to the unique questions that arise in decumulation. And we baby boomers are going to retiring at higher and higher rates in the next 10 years, so there will be more and more of us in the same boat.

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Re: More Attention To Retirees' Portfolios

Post by David Jay » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:15 am

Start a thread. Ask a specific question. Make your retiree portfolio part of the discussion.

No one sets a policy about who can ask what. But BH is continually attracting new members so there will always be a lot of "newbie" questions by definition.
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Re: More Attention To Retirees' Portfolios

Post by soccerrules » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:26 am

David Jay wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:15 am
Start a thread. Ask a specific question. Make your retiree portfolio part of the discussion.

No one sets a policy about who can ask what. But BH is continually attracting new members so there will always be a lot of "newbie" questions by definition.
+1
It is also useful for those in the accumulation phase to help theirs parents, aunts, uncles who might be at the same stage as you.

I will say as I think about my parents (79/80) and MIL (84) computers and technology are a challenge. In fact the MIL has never been online herself and couldn't send an email to save her life, let alone the idea of reading/posting on a financial forum. I wonder if much of the issue is tied to lack of comfort or knowledge of technology
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Re: More Attention To Retirees' Portfolios

Post by Pajamas » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:35 am

Munir wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:06 am
Do we need a forum, or a section of this forum, dealing primarily with retirees in addition to the main forum which primarily is for accumulators? Ideas or suggestions?
I don't think so. The current organization of the forum is not specific to any phase of investing and seems to work fairly well.

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