Personal Life subforum?

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cfs
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by cfs »

I left all of them behind.

I am not a member of the 30,20,10,5 thousand posts, but here are my two centimos anyway. In my opinion this is not a good idea. I used to participate in other forums and used to run my very own personal blog, and left them all behind a couple of years ago for several reasons (none of those reasons are good). Now, for anyone interested in forums offering all kind of subjects, well, those are easy to find by searching the web. Again, just my opinion, and now I will go back to watching Wold Cup Reviews (with no sub-forum needed for this one).

Thanks for reading.
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kayanco
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by kayanco »

schuyler74 wrote:Can someone present a specific example of a post that would be allowed in this proposed new forum that is not allowed in the existing forums? All of the above is too vague for me to understand what we're actually debating.
Yes, I'd like to present a usecase for the subforum.

When I made the original thread, my idea was to get feedback/guidance from folks who are going through or have already been in similar situations.
Once we face a situation in life, we learn lessons from it. But once the time is gone, our fate is sealed, but someone else can benefit.

So there could be a guideline/rule along the lines:
Please only participate or provide feedback if you have current or past personal experience with the situation (or someone in your family/social circle)
(obviously there's no hard-and-fast way to ensure that)
I also like the idea of "actionable" feedback/replies.

Now an example (hypothetical):
Tom and Harry are working at minimum wage, long hours. They are clueless about saving.
1. They post in the Boglehead Investing/Personal Finance subforums. Folks help them and now their every dollar is optimized (paying off credit card first, automating savings, etc)
2. They post in Personal Consumer subforum and find a better cellphone plan, cutting cable, etc.

Harry feels satisfied!
Exit: Harry
Tom feels unhappy, and the future looks foggy to him. Even though his every dollar is optimized in every possible way, it's still minimum dollar. He wants to improve his life, but doesn't know where/how to begin.

"If" there was a Personal Life sub-forum, he could pose that question.
Enter: Rachel.
She is a respected member, and has gone through the SAME situation, and now makes good money.
She can guide Tom: Hey, I went through the same thing. And I did A,B,C.
end: example

1.
The point here is not that he has to do exactly A,B,C and will find himself at the end of the rainbow. But simply that it will give him some options to consider, that he might be unaware of. He might feel better knowing that someone else was in the same situation, and the future might start to look less hazy.

2.
(Not sure how such a discussion would tarnish the reputation of Bogleheads, or be against it's mission anymore than the cellphone or snacks threads)
In my mind such a forum would be an adjunct to the "Consumer" subforum. The "Consumer" for surface level things, and the "Life" for a little bit deeper.
jonesy
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by jonesy »

Please--if it ain't broke don't fix it.
This forum is great just as it is!
LFT_PFT
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by LFT_PFT »

Another vote or sentiment of "If ain't broke, don't fix it."
Fallible
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by Fallible »

kayanco wrote:
schuyler74 wrote:Can someone present a specific example of a post that would be allowed in this proposed new forum that is not allowed in the existing forums? All of the above is too vague for me to understand what we're actually debating.
Yes, I'd like to present a usecase for the subforum.

When I made the original thread, my idea was to get feedback/guidance from folks who are going through or have already been in similar situations.
Once we face a situation in life, we learn lessons from it. But once the time is gone, our fate is sealed, but someone else can benefit.

So there could be a guideline/rule along the lines:
Please only participate or provide feedback if you have current or past personal experience with the situation (or someone in your family/social circle)
(obviously there's no hard-and-fast way to ensure that)
I also like the idea of "actionable" feedback/replies.
...
This post nicely providing examples of the "personal," plus earlier ones by Roymeo, Alex, sscritic, etc., as to what topics could be moved from the public forum to a personal forum begin, I think, to bring into focus a personal forum's content and purpose. On the possible plus side, it could free the public forum for its true purpose of financial/investing advice. But the "guideline/rule" mentioned by kayanco - just one new rule among many that moderators will have to enforce - has me concerned even more whether there would be enough moderators.

Our moderators are volunteers AND some also have full-time jobs. I have done volunteer work for various organizations and at times felt overwhelmed to the point of burnout - and i'm retired and believed deeply in the value of that work. I also did volunteer work while working full-time in the '90s and lasted just one year before I realized I was close to working the equivalent of two jobs. Also, having seen another forum (non-financial) with great potential crash and burn because of inadequate moderation, I am keenly aware, as I know others are here, of how important our moderators are (along with the written policies they enforce).
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
LynnC
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by LynnC »

jsl11 wrote:
Alex Frakt wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:Maybe I don't get around enough, lol - but the other forums I belong to, that have a "Lounge" section for off topic postings don't seem to experience spamming, off color language or totally bizarre topics, etc. ...maybe because the people allowed to post are already existing members of the overall forum and not the general public.?
We started off with a Lounge. So many of the threads were about general quasi-political stuff like global warming that it ended up consuming nearly all of the moderator's time. To rein it in, we converted it to what is now the Personal Consumer subforum and instituted the requirement that topics in all subforums except Investing Theory be limited to the personal.
Alex,
IMO, you have answered your own question.
Jeff
+1
The times I have had personal questions for members, I have posted the questions privately and received answers. I see no need to make your personal questions, public.

Just my 2 cents,
LynnC
countdown
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by countdown »

Is this seriously being considered?

I honestly cannot believe that this forum would have the gravitas it currently enjoys--enough to be referenced in the Boglehead books, WSJ articles, etc. and other fine sources--if it contained sub-forums the equivalent of 'Dear Abby' and 'Match.Com'.

What has happened to one's real life, real world personal friends, family, mentors and network?

:confused
denovo
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by denovo »

I was wondering, in regards to the people who aren't interested, couldn't they just not read the potential new subforum? There's plenty of threads that don't interest me, so I don't click on them.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
kayanco
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by kayanco »

Alex Frakt wrote:...supporting our community of regular posters and readers would definitely be part of that mission...
That would be a great guiding principle!
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HardKnocker
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by HardKnocker »

I'm not a fan of subforums.

So I vote no.

I have no objection to someone posting a question about a personal topic on the existing forums.
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sscritic
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by sscritic »

kayanco wrote:
Alex Frakt wrote:...supporting our community of regular posters and readers would definitely be part of that mission...
That would be a great guiding principle!
And the regular posters and readers don't want this new sub forum, so Alex should support them and deep-six this idea.
Austintatious
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by Austintatious »

sscritic wrote:
kayanco wrote:
Alex Frakt wrote:...supporting our community of regular posters and readers would definitely be part of that mission...
That would be a great guiding principle!
And the regular posters and readers don't want this new sub forum, so Alex should support them and deep-six this idea.
Uh oh. It seems that we have at least two different interpretations of the word "regular". sscritic, with more than 20,000 posts under his belt, presumably claims the status of regularity. But, apparently, so does kayanco with just over 100 posts. Are we talking about longevity or number of posts, or maybe something else? A quick look at my trusty Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary (1971 edition) shows that there a more than a few ways to define the term. So, how is that word "regular" to be defined, in the context of adding a new forum or for anything else? For all we know, when Alex referred to "our community of regular posters and readers", he might have meant those members enjoying a healthy and presumably "regular" bowel function. Clearly, we require further clarification.
kayanco
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by kayanco »

Austintatious wrote:
Uh oh. It seems that we have at least two different interpretations of the word "regular". sscritic, with more than 20,000 posts under his belt, presumably claims the status of regularity. But, apparently, so does kayanco with just over 100 posts. Are we talking about longevity or number of posts, or maybe something else? A quick look at my trusty Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary (1971 edition) shows that there a more than a few ways to define the term. So, how is that word "regular" to be defined, in the context of adding a new forum or for anything else? For all we know, when Alex referred to "our community of regular posters and readers", he might have meant those members enjoying a healthy and presumably "regular" bowel function. Clearly, we require further clarification.
Hey bro, I never claimed to be a regular or anything really, I'm nothing.
I just appreciated the sentiment behind what Alex said, that's all.

(Although I'm pretty sure he meant serving only those with regular bowel functions... :p)
sscritic
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by sscritic »

Austintatious wrote: Uh oh. It seems that we have at least two different interpretations of the word "regular". sscritic, with more than 20,000 posts under his belt, presumably claims the status of regularity. But, apparently, so does kayanco with just over 100 posts. Are we talking about longevity or number of posts, or maybe something else?
I was not making a claim about my regularity, but about a quick perusal of the posts in this thread. I found a plurality of posts against the idea. Actually, we should look at the plurality of posters, so kayanco's six (or however many) posts in favor count as only one poster, and my two posts against also represent only one poster.

What is your poster count (not post count)?

In this case, I am defining regular as anyone who cared enough to post in this thread.
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by VictoriaF »

Austintatious wrote:
sscritic wrote:
kayanco wrote:
Alex Frakt wrote:...supporting our community of regular posters and readers would definitely be part of that mission...
That would be a great guiding principle!
And the regular posters and readers don't want this new sub forum, so Alex should support them and deep-six this idea.
Uh oh. It seems that we have at least two different interpretations of the word "regular". sscritic, with more than 20,000 posts under his belt, presumably claims the status of regularity. But, apparently, so does kayanco with just over 100 posts.
I claim to be irregular--just to be different.

Victoria
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Austintatious
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by Austintatious »

sscritic wrote:
Austintatious wrote: Uh oh. It seems that we have at least two different interpretations of the word "regular". sscritic, with more than 20,000 posts under his belt, presumably claims the status of regularity. But, apparently, so does kayanco with just over 100 posts. Are we talking about longevity or number of posts, or maybe something else?
I was not making a claim about my regularity, but about a quick perusal of the posts in this thread. I found a plurality of posts against the idea. Actually, we should look at the plurality of posters, so kayanco's six (or however many) posts in favor count as only one poster, and my two posts against also represent only one poster.

What is your poster count (not post count)?

In this case, I am defining regular as anyone who cared enough to post in this thread.
Of those having responded to this thread, the no's (including mine) are clearly in the majority. But I do not think that the total number having posted here, both the nay's and the "yea's", is sufficiently representative of the opinions of the membership at large, if that's what the term "regular" is intended to mean.
EyeDee
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by EyeDee »

HardKnocker wrote: I have no objection to someone posting a question about a personal topic on the existing forums.
.

However, that is the problem Alex is researching here. "Posting a question about a personal topic on the existing forums" is generally against the rules on the existing forums. He is asking if there is enough interest in asking the wise people on this board personal questions to justify a forum that allowed personal questions.
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by pennstater2005 »

Austintatious wrote:
sscritic wrote:
Austintatious wrote: Uh oh. It seems that we have at least two different interpretations of the word "regular". sscritic, with more than 20,000 posts under his belt, presumably claims the status of regularity. But, apparently, so does kayanco with just over 100 posts. Are we talking about longevity or number of posts, or maybe something else?
I was not making a claim about my regularity, but about a quick perusal of the posts in this thread. I found a plurality of posts against the idea. Actually, we should look at the plurality of posters, so kayanco's six (or however many) posts in favor count as only one poster, and my two posts against also represent only one poster.

What is your poster count (not post count)?

In this case, I am defining regular as anyone who cared enough to post in this thread.
Of those having responded to this thread, the no's (including mine) are clearly in the majority. But I do not think that the total number having posted here, both the nay's and the "yea's", is sufficiently representative of the opinions of the membership at large, if that's what the term "regular" is intended to mean.
Time for a poll?
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by VictoriaF »

pennstater2005 wrote:Time for a poll?
Alex said that he is not looking for voting, only for bullet-proof logic.

Victoria
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countdown
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by countdown »

Here's an example of a personal life question:

'What causes one person to seek advice regarding their personal life (including growth or delay in their emotional, spiritual, psychological, sexual, etc. development) from anonymous, internet strangers, when another person would seek the same type of advice, from a known and respected relationhip he/she has with their peers, family, friends, therapists, clergy, mentors, etc.?

I am a person seeking advice in the first category. What do you think makes me request this type of anonymous advice rather than consulting with people I personally know, or who are known by persons that I respect?

Thank you for answering my questions."


Is this the vision of Bogleheads.org? My last post on this issue.....
ThatGuy
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by ThatGuy »

countdown wrote:Here's an example of a personal life question:

'What causes one person to seek advice regarding their personal life (including growth or delay in their emotional, spiritual, psychological, sexual, etc. development) from anonymous, internet strangers, when another person would seek the same type of advice, from a known and respected relationhip he/she has with their peers, family, friends, therapists, clergy, mentors, etc.?

I am a person seeking advice in the first category. What do you think makes me request this type of anonymous advice rather than consulting with people I personally know, or who are known by persons that I respect?

Thank you for answering my questions.".
Most people don't strike up a relationship with a therapist (or even a clergy member) until they have a personal life question. In other words, they seek advice from a professional who they know next to nothing about previous to finding themselves in a pickle.

I think this is a generational thing, but how is this different from asking advice on the internet of a group one supposedly respects?

I like my friends, they wouldn't be my friends if I didn't like them, but they don't have expertise in everything. In at least 50% of the cases of asking for advice all they have to offer is a sympathetic ear, no real advice or experience in that area. Blowing off steam is valuable, but presumably this new forum would offer solid advice based on expertise. I think of Bogleheads as an interactive Wikipedia. It's much easier to pool various experiences and knowledge to easily find answers to things I don't know, but I still have to digest and verify that information myself.

For the record, I'm in favor of expanding the permissible scope of the current quasi-personal life forum, but I'm not in favor of anything to do with member to member interactions; that's what PMs are for.
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gkaplan
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by gkaplan »

Just say no.
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by Barefootgirl »

This is an interesting thread, surprising to me that some are so adamant about or even perhaps threatened by, something they can freely choose to ignore.

Maybe we can move onto more pressing topics such as: how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

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The Wizard
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by The Wizard »

I'm just looking for a good Guacamole recipe.
The Personal Consumer forum already serves this purpose, should I chose to use it.
We don't need an additional touchy-feely forum, just the way it is...
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pennstater2005
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by pennstater2005 »

If this sub forum is added, look out. I'm an emotional wreck :D :( :shock: :twisted: :annoyed and you'll all get to hear about it.
“If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of car payments.” – Earl Wilson
sscritic
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by sscritic »

I am waiting for more angels and pins threads.
I am trying to get my son to see angels dance on the head of a pin, but he doesn't seem interested. I am trying to coach him in angel watching, but all he is interested in is fairies. Where can I find good professional help to get my son to watch angels dance? I know some of you have been through this before, and there is no group of people I would rather entrust with my son's angel watching than you guys.

Thanks.
Rexindex
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by Rexindex »

Forgive me for asking this, but am I the only one who rarely ever looks at this site broken down by forums? I look at the overall thread and see what grabs my attention. On certain occasions I look at the wiki for info, but most can be found elsewhere. I have often wondered if the constant shuffling of threads into sub forums is really necessary.

I always err toward letting people say what they want, but I would be leery of a personal life category where people exchange shore houses, you are asking for trolling.

Other than that, if people were real honest, when you exceed a few threads, likely a few dozen and certainly a few hundred,you are into personal entertainment here more than financial education. And when you limit it too much this becomes a real dry place.

Almost everything on here is a personal life issue. Create another area for it and I think you'll find yourselves exhausted from the work of moderation.
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spin_echo
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by spin_echo »

I am against a personal life subforum, for all the reasons listed by previous posters. Thanks!
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by JonnyDVM »

I think the current format is very strong the way it is. That being said, if we're throwing out sub-forum ideas how about one specifically for posters under 40? That way me and the five other posters with long term investing horizons can complain about our student loans to each other and not discuss drawing down our 80% TIPS portfolios.
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by michaelsieg »

I kind of like the idea, but I am not sure if it would work and I don't have strong feelings either way. As it is, I probably already spend too much time on this forum...
It is definitely a risky proposal, and like with any risk, probably the volatility and SD of the answers/opinions would increase.
Sccritic wrote in a recent post, that too many people write about things they know nothing about, a personal sub-forum could solve that problem :happy - everyone would be an expert and participate in the discussions, since facts/data would matter less than opinions.
epilnk
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by epilnk »

I've always wished for such a forum. All the discussions I find interesting end up locked before I get a chance to participate. :( And then my favorite bogleheads sign off and don't return.
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by bogleblitz »

I would love a personal life subforum, off topic forum, or any other extra forum. Make it 25 post requirement and 1 month old requirement.

other forums usually have a offtopic section. My favorite forum is a videogame forum called neogaf.com. Although I mostly stop playing videogames now, I visit their offtopic forum the most. It is heavily moderated so the community is just as strong as bogleheads.

I agree on getting more moderators so moderation should not be an issue.
SGM
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by SGM »

I like the idea of this being a site for investing advice. Anything else is a distraction.
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Tycoon
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by Tycoon »

Nein.
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david99
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by david99 »

I say that we give it a try for two or three months and see how it works. If it turns out that it's not working out, then we stop it. If it works well for the first three months, then we continue for another few months. So it would be done on a trial basis for the first six months.
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by kayanco »

Alex Frakt wrote:..I was thinking of chucking all the career, college, and private school threads in it.
david99 wrote:I say that we give it a try for two or three months and see how it works. If it turns out that it's not working out, then we stop it. If it works well for the first three months, then we continue for another few months. So it would be done on a trial basis for the first six months.
Not a bad idea, sounds fair. If folks find some value/use in it, then continue. And if it doesn't work out, or brothers folks too much, it can be (or should be) be taken down. It likely won't cause irrevocable harm.
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by peppers »

I am tendentiously ambivalent towards it.

Hope that helps.
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goaties
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by goaties »

I'm for at least giving it a try. I would suggest, however, that it be completely ghettoized: that is, that the subjects not appear in the aggregated "master list" which you see when you click on bogleheads.org. In this way, those that are offended by the idea need never see any of it!
island
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by island »

SGM wrote:I like the idea of this being a site for investing advice. Anything else is a distraction.
Completely agree. Another no vote.

I always enter the site from bogleheads.org so I can see all the topics and IMO there are already too many off topic threads that keep rising to the top to bury the useful threads.

Who's your favorite guitarist? What snacks do you eat? How do I get my kid to take his soccer games seriously? Paraphrasing title, but you get the gist. Posts like that often spin off into chat room silliness, health merits, psychoanalysis, or critique of parenting or relationship skills and have nothing to do with investing. Couldn't care less and easy not to participate of course, but it's the bumping of more pertinent threads that is bothersome.

If there was a way to isolate the personal life off topic threads so they don't list with the Bogleheads-worthy topics, great for those who are interested, but if not, please don't encourage it with another sub forum.
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by S&L1940 »

Alex Frakt wrote:I should note that I mine threads like this for ideas. It's not a poll and I'm not making any promises.
I have benefited so much from the BH forum. I belong to one other that is managed and delivers similar to BH. Sadly it is about specific medical issues yet like BH the forum is energized by members posting and responding to questions with great care and respect. It is called Smart Patients.
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The Wizard
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by The Wizard »

goaties wrote:I'm for at least giving it a try. I would suggest, however, that it be completely ghettoized: that is, that the subjects not appear in the aggregated "master list" which you see when you click on bogleheads.org. In this way, those that are offended by the idea need never see any of it!
Now THERE'S an idea. Completely GHETTOIZED, yes.
So those of us who View New Posts or similar see none of it. This could reduce certain marginal posts in the Personal Consumer forum.
Good idea...
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by LadyGeek »

island wrote:I always enter the site from bogleheads.org so I can see all the topics and IMO there are already too many off topic threads that keep rising to the top to bury the useful threads.
If it helps, you can sort the home page by forum. Click on Subforum (heading at the top). The consumer threads are at the bottom of the list.
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island
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by island »

LadyGeek wrote:
island wrote:I always enter the site from bogleheads.org so I can see all the topics and IMO there are already too many off topic threads that keep rising to the top to bury the useful threads.
If it helps, you can sort the home page by forum. Click on Subforum (heading at the top). The consumer threads are at the bottom of the list.
Thank you Lady Geek. I know that, but like others mentioned I too prefer to use the master list than to have to click on multiple sub forums. There are many useful threads in the consumer threads, but there are also some that don't fit that category either. They just end up there by default.
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by The Wizard »

I noticed that the Chuck Norris joke thread just got locked over in the Personal Consumer forum. That's fine, I'm not whining about that.

But this raises a question, mainly for Alex: would joke thread and sports fan threads be permitted in this hypothetical Personal Life forum?
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Peter Foley
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by Peter Foley »

Mel wrote:
I had planned to stay out of this discussion so as not to influence anyone else. However, since you asked, I'm with Lady Geek on this one.
I agree with you both. My reasoning is that we are working here with a finite (although broad) topic. We often strive to provide advice based on scientific knowledge and data while recognizing that human behavior is also a factor with respect to finance/investing/financial planning. I fear that a personal life subforum would be replete with opinion unsupported by facts. As we have often seen here, changing someone's opinion is difficult. Data help keep the conversation less judgmental.

It is kinda like keeping peace in the family - a few topics at the dinner table should just be avoided.
countdown
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by countdown »

Said I wouldn't post on this again, but I would like to add a comment.
I read the forum nearly every day. I use the active/most recent post link which merges all forums (I believe).
I don't generally use the sub-forums. I agree with the poster who said that there is already too much 'clutter'.

Secondly, yesterday I pulled out my copy of 'Bogleheads Guide to Retirement Planning' to review an issue relevant to our hopefully upcoming retirement.
I found myself re-reading Jack Bogle's foreword to the book again.
It actually made me think of this thread.
He graciously lent his name to this site/group of people dedicated to helping the small investor, because that is what he worked for throughout his career/life.
I couldn't help wondering how he would feel about his name being associated with a forum for personal issues/problems, lonely-hearts club, etc.

Preserve the dignity.
sscritic
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by sscritic »

goaties wrote:I'm for at least giving it a try. I would suggest, however, that it be completely ghettoized: that is, that the subjects not appear in the aggregated "master list" which you see when you click on bogleheads.org. In this way, those that are offended by the idea need never see any of it!
I previously suggested a whole new domain name.
Why a subforum of bogleheads? Why not a whole new domain name to keep things separate?
That would definitely keep it in its own ghetto. If Alex doesn't want to run it, you could, or anyone else who thinks it is a good idea.
jackbogleismyhero
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Re: Personal Life subforum?

Post by jackbogleismyhero »

countdown wrote:Said I wouldn't post on this again, but I would like to add a comment.
I read the forum nearly every day. I use the active/most recent post link which merges all forums (I believe).
I don't generally use the sub-forums. I agree with the poster who said that there is already too much 'clutter'.

Secondly, yesterday I pulled out my copy of 'Bogleheads Guide to Retirement Planning' to review an issue relevant to our hopefully upcoming retirement.
I found myself re-reading Jack Bogle's foreword to the book again.
It actually made me think of this thread.
He graciously lent his name to this site/group of people dedicated to helping the small investor, because that is what he worked for throughout his career/life.
I couldn't help wondering how he would feel about his name being associated with a forum for personal issues/problems, lonely-hearts club, etc.

Preserve the dignity.
Great post!
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