Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

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LadyGeek
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Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:26 pm

After numerous member comments, the Advisory Board and site owners have collaborated to update the Bogleheads.org home page. The intent is to provide helpful information to guide new investors while minimizing changes for experienced members.

- The most notable change is that the sidebar is now on the right-side of the page.
- The menus and sidebar have been streamlined, with the wiki given additional prominence.

The supporting pages - Recommended Reading, site info, and Support this site (more info) are part of the update. Hopefully, the changes make the site more user-friendly. Rather than explain further, please explore the new page.

Comments are welcome.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by richard » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:35 pm

Nice clean look.

One thing I miss is the ability to start a thread from the home page.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by stan1 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:35 pm

Without getting into subjective areas like design aesthetics I do notice in Chrome that the header and list of posts renders first, then a delay, the right side of the posting box visibly shifts to the right three times, and then the boxes on the far right render about 2 seconds later.
Last edited by stan1 on Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by ndayev6 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 pm

Looks great! Simple and clean. :D

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:40 pm

Thanks. There are a few areas, like View your posts, which were also removed. Bear in mind that you can always bookmark those links (View your posts).
stan1 wrote:Without getting into subjective areas like design aesthetics I do notice in Chrome that the header and list of posts renders first, then a delay, the right side of the posting box visibly shifts to the right three times, and then the boxes on the far right render about 2 seconds later.
I'm using Chrome in Linux and it looks OK to me.

Before we get into browser issues, I want to make it clear that no javascript or any fancy techniques were used. It's the same approach as the "old" page - just HTML and CSS properties.

The page is the same width as before. The sidebars are slightly more narrow, and what fits in a single line on one browser might span into two lines in another. It depends on the screen resolution and font size settings of the browser.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by Allan » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:41 pm

Where is the button you click to see your own posts?

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by peppers » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:46 pm

ahhh.....that explains everything. I thought I was going to have to resurrect HAL. :wink:
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:50 pm

^^^ :)
Allan wrote:Where is the button you click to see your own posts?

Allan
It's located in the forum's Board index, 2nd line down on the top left. View your posts

Also on that page are:

- View unanswered posts
- View unread posts
- View new posts
- View active topics
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by peppers » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:54 pm

I am viewing this on a Chromebook. Looks good and you kept the logo in place. Siri will be pleased.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:56 pm

Via PM, I'm also getting questions on how to start a new thread. Please bear in mind that these features have always been in the forum software, so it's just a matter of getting used to the "new" format.

To start a new thread, just go to the forum you want and click on the "NEWTOPIC" button in the top left corner, just under the forum title.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by 2retire » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:57 pm

Looks good, nice an clean. The only suggestion I could provide would be to reorder the links on the left. I think they would make more sense in this order:

Investing Philosophy
Recommended Reading
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Forum

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by NAVigator » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:58 pm

I just poured a glass of wine when I saw this. Here's a toast to a new, sleek home page! :sharebeer
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by in_reality » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:00 pm

A pleasure to look at! Well done!

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by Novine » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:02 pm

Wasn't there an option to get to the login from the home page?

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:05 pm

There were options to view your own posts or start a thread, which require a login. If you weren't logged in already, the forum software would automatically take you to that page.

The Board index is where you will see the links I mentioned before. However, you need to be logged in to view them. Try looking at this page when logged in and when not logged in.

The home page was just giving short-cuts to these features.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by richard » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:10 pm

LadyGeek wrote:Via PM, I'm also getting questions on how to start a new thread. Please bear in mind that these features have always been in the forum software, so it's just a matter of getting used to the "new" format.

To start a new thread, just go to the forum you want and click on the "NEWTOPIC" button in the top left corner, just under the forum title.
Old: one click
New: three clicks

A first world problem, but not as easy as before. I'd encourage adding back the ability to start a new topic from the home page.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by in_reality » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:17 pm

richard wrote:
LadyGeek wrote:Via PM, I'm also getting questions on how to start a new thread. Please bear in mind that these features have always been in the forum software, so it's just a matter of getting used to the "new" format.

To start a new thread, just go to the forum you want and click on the "NEWTOPIC" button in the top left corner, just under the forum title.
Old: one click
New: three clicks

A first world problem, but not as easy as before. I'd encourage adding back the ability to start a new topic from the home page.
New: two clicks

scroll to the bottom, click to select forum, click new topic

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by pennstater2005 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:19 pm

I like the new look. Lots of hard work that is much appreciated. The only thing I'll miss is being able to view my posts from the homepage. How do I get to the board index from the homepage to view my posts?
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:20 pm

in_reality wrote:New: two clicks

scroll to the bottom, click to select forum, click new topic
Quicker:

Ctrl-Page Down to go directly to the bottom, click to select forum, click new topic.

My concern right now is to check if anything broke. It's been tested extensively prior to deployment, but something always manages to slip through the cracks.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:22 pm

pennstater2005 wrote:I like the new look. Lots of hard work that is much appreciated. The only thing I'll miss is being able to view my posts from the homepage. How do I get to the board index from the homepage to view my posts?
Use either the Forum link on the top menu, or Forum Home to get to the board index. Then, login and you'll see the View your posts link (top left).

Or, just bookmark View your posts directly, which will force the login page to show up.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by sometimesinvestor » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:38 pm

It is nicer looking and now that I know how to do what i want to do, I can do it but almost everything takes two clicks instead of one and the first click is often not obvious so I am not sure its more user friendly.. I agree with praise that Lady Geek has told you what it is you have to do in order to do what you want in this thread. Because it is not obvious I suspect this thread will be still current in a week.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by pennstater2005 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:51 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
pennstater2005 wrote:I like the new look. Lots of hard work that is much appreciated. The only thing I'll miss is being able to view my posts from the homepage. How do I get to the board index from the homepage to view my posts?
Use either the Forum link on the top menu, or Forum Home to get to the board index. Then, login and you'll see the View your posts link (top left).

Or, just bookmark View your posts directly, which will force the login page to show up.
Thank you.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by rotorhead » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:52 pm

Don't like the new look. Nothing wrong with the way it was. Leave well enough alone; and don't fiddle with it.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by BrandonBogle » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:53 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
in_reality wrote:New: two clicks

scroll to the bottom, click to select forum, click new topic
Quicker:

Ctrl-Page Down to go directly to the bottom, click to select forum, click new topic.

My concern right now is to check if anything broke. It's been tested extensively prior to deployment, but something always manages to slip through the cracks.
Just to say CNTL-Page Down isn't an option for us mobile users. I spend roughly 50% of my BH time on my iPhone. But still not a problem for me. I just wish the "View Your Posts" was something I could click to easily. As I jump from machine to machine and browser to browser, it will get annoying to keep the bookmark handy rather than type in the site and click the link.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:02 pm

FYI - I'm watching the feedback and will consider adding the prior View your posts and starting new topics links.

Update: See below.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by schuyler74 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:06 pm

New home page format; new ways to start a new topic; next thing you know they'll be adding a "Like :thumbsup " button on individual posts!
This place is going downhill fast. :)

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:14 pm

So much for beta testing. You've got it. Not the like button :thumbsup, but the the View your posts, and start a new topic links. Check the right sidebar, under Bogleheads Forum.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by schuyler74 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:20 pm

I don't see a way to "Login" on the Home Page (could you before?). On the other hand, if the Home Page displays exactly the same content whether or not you're logged in, I suppose there's no need to provide a Login button. Just feels like it should be there, though, if for no other reason than to explicitly show new users that you CAN login to the site. Maybe a "Login/Register" link. I dunno, just a suggestion...

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by Khanmots » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:26 pm

Layout thoughts...

For those that run at a higher-res the home page has always been shoved to the left. However this is more extreme.

Pulling up the old site in the wayback machine and comparing I notice that the new layout is, aside from the header, roughly an inch skinnier (will differ on different systems of course).

Also, for those of us that are on a modern resolution :mrgreen: the part of the site that regulars primarily use (the new thread titles...) is only the far left 1/4 of our screen or so. I find this rather disconcerting... the old site had some issue here, but having the column on the left at least shifted stuff more towards the middle of the display and having an extra inch of width to the titles helped keep it from feeling as extremely unbalanced. If I'm browsing on my large monitor (2560x1440 res) the problem is even greater with the entire right half of my screen completely blank.

I'm curious why we have a fixed-width layout rather than adapting to the display of the users. The forum software does this, it's just the homepage that doesn't... seems odd.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by roka » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:28 pm

Looks good, a nice, clean look. But when I first saw it I thought I had a browser error that didn't load the entire page. A second check confirmed this was the way it was supposed to look. :mrgreen:

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by ogd » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:31 pm

Who moved my cheese?? :annoyed

After the first few seconds of confusion though, I like it -- it's nice that on mobile you don't have to scroll right to see the list of posts. Thanks for your work, as always!

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by DSInvestor » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:33 pm

LadyGeek, thanks for adding the view your posts link.
Wiki

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by schuyler74 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:45 pm

How about a FAQ for new users? I expect such a thing may exist somewhere already but I don't see it staring at me on the Home Page. The link could bring you to a page specifically for new users that tells you quick logistical info: how to post, forum etiquette, info regarding PMs, how to use BBCodes (embed pictures, use bold, italics, hyperlinks), and so on.

I bring this up because I don't know the site well and I just noticed a PM sitting in my Outbox. I searched to find this thread which explained that messages in your Outbox are only moved to the Sent folder after the recipient has read them. That's a good feature but was confusing until I searched for and found the explanation. Another example is the page that explains how to use "BBCode" is here. That thing is a gold mine, but it took me a while to find it.

Well, there's my suggestion then. "How to use this site", or "Bogleheads.org 101", or "FAQ for new users". Perhaps there already is such a page, so simply providing a link to it would be helpful.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:47 pm

ogd wrote:Who moved my cheese?? :annoyed
Sorry, I moved the cheese again.

Upon further review, I swapped the order of the sidebar boxes to put the Forum higher than the Wiki. The reason is that readers are coming here first to look at the forum. Once they're here, we'll get them to the wiki. The "New to investing?" box stays at the top - we want to be sure new investors get clear direction on what to do.
Khanmots wrote:I'm curious why we have a fixed-width layout rather than adapting to the display of the users. The forum software does this, it's just the homepage that doesn't... seems odd.
Earlier in the thread, I stated that the home page was built using no javascript or anything fancy. The forum software has some javascript code to take care of the layout, which was developed and tested by quite a number of developers over a long period of time.

We don't have these types of resources available, so keeping things "basic" is the best option to minimize problems. We can always look at this for future development.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:50 pm

schuyler74 wrote:How about a FAQ for new users? I expect such a thing may exist somewhere already but I don't see it staring at me on the Home Page. The link could bring you to a page specifically for new users that tells you quick logistical info: how to post, forum etiquette, info regarding PMs, how to use BBCodes (embed pictures, use bold, italics, hyperlinks), and so on.

I bring this up because I don't know the site well and I just noticed a PM sitting in my Outbox. I searched to find this thread which explained that messages in your Outbox are only moved to the Sent folder after the recipient has read them. That's a good feature but was confusing until I searched for and found the explanation. Another example is the page that explains how to use "BBCode" is here. That thing is a gold mine, but it took me a while to find it.

Well, there's my suggestion then. "How to use this site", or "Bogleheads.org 101", or "FAQ for new users". Perhaps there already is such a page, so simply providing a link to it would be helpful.
You're asking about the forum software, which is excellent material for the wiki. We have a start: Posting FAQ for the Bogleheads® forum

Also note the FAQ in the top right corner of the forum's header (2nd menu down, 3rd from the right). It's next to the Forum Policy...
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by dgdevil » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:05 pm

rotorhead wrote:Don't like the new look. Nothing wrong with the way it was. Leave well enough alone; and don't fiddle with it.
+1 Thought you'd been hacked. Not good at all. Everything crammed into the left hand side, and a huge wasteland of white takes up a quarter of the screen on the right hand side. Wasn't there a blue background? The Bogleheads.org title is puny.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by sscritic » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:07 pm

Starting a new thread:

I still see this, but on the right
Post a new topic
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Did it get reinstated while I was out to dinner?

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:10 pm

It was reinstated after I finished my dinner. I don't know when you eat dinner.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by peppers » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:29 pm

I figured out the home page and figured out how to get Pandora on my Chromebook. All in one night, not bad for an old guy.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by Peter Foley » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:46 pm

I'm appreciative of the thought and work that went into the new design. I expect I will become more comfortable with it.
Glad to see "view your posts" was added to the splash page - I use that a lot.

There is a lot of white space on the right hand side of the page. Is this true for all browsers? Is there a setting that would fill more of the screen?
As an alternative could the could the whole spash page be shifted a bit to the right by adding a margin on the left?
Any thought about bumping up the font a bit in the Forum area?

I'm not a web designer - so my questions are really quite innocent. I think the new look is cleaner, but the amount of white space on the right looks odd in comparison to other web pages.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by Mudpuppy » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:13 am

Khanmots wrote:Also, for those of us that are on a modern resolution :mrgreen: the part of the site that regulars primarily use (the new thread titles...) is only the far left 1/4 of our screen or so. I find this rather disconcerting... the old site had some issue here, but having the column on the left at least shifted stuff more towards the middle of the display and having an extra inch of width to the titles helped keep it from feeling as extremely unbalanced. If I'm browsing on my large monitor (2560x1440 res) the problem is even greater with the entire right half of my screen completely blank.
Mainstream monitors are 1920x1080, with a small price boost getting one a monitor with 1920x1200 resolution. Very few people have a 2560x1440 monitor, since those typically come at higher price points, particularly if one prefers to buy from the bigger names like Dell, Asus, and so on.

It does however look like the CSS bounding box was set at 1080 pixels wide, which does waste quite a bit of space on most monitors. That width would really only make sense for cell phones held in portrait mode, and it seems odd to design the whole site around the cellular experience when one can create a mobile-friendly site specifically for cell phone users.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by White Coat Investor » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:19 am

Just logged in, looks nice.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by Fallible » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:25 am

LadyGeek wrote:After numerous member comments, the Advisory Board and site owners have collaborated to update the Bogleheads.org home page. The intent is to provide helpful information to guide new investors while minimizing changes for experienced members....
Thanks to LadyGeek and all those who worked hard on these important improvements. I think the intent has been realized to not only better guide new investors, but to reach out to them with the "New to Investing?" and "Start Here" placed at the top right of the page. It should immediately get them oriented to the site and quickly on their way to "Getting Started."
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by Mel Lindauer » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:40 am

Fallible wrote:
LadyGeek wrote:After numerous member comments, the Advisory Board and site owners have collaborated to update the Bogleheads.org home page. The intent is to provide helpful information to guide new investors while minimizing changes for experienced members....
Thanks to LadyGeek and all those who worked hard on these important improvements. I think the intent has been realized to not only better guide new investors, but to reach out to them with the "New to Investing?" and "Start Here" placed at the top right of the page. It should immediately get them oriented to the site and quickly on their way to "Getting Started."
That was the primary reason for the change, Fallible. Glad you think we achieved that objective.
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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by tfb » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:41 am

It's better than before. I'm afraid new visitors still can't figure out what's going on. Compare with the home page of Financial Wisdom Forum:

http://www.financialwisdomforum.org/

Mission statement, 2 major components: wiki + forum

Very clear and clean.
Harry Sit, taking a break from the forums.

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by Munir » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:55 am

Too complicated. Prefer the old format .

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Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by JimInIllinois » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:56 am

Khanmots wrote:Layout thoughts...

For those that run at a higher-res the home page has always been shoved to the left. However this is more extreme.

Pulling up the old site in the wayback machine and comparing I notice that the new layout is, aside from the header, roughly an inch skinnier (will differ on different systems of course).

Also, for those of us that are on a modern resolution :mrgreen: the part of the site that regulars primarily use (the new thread titles...) is only the far left 1/4 of our screen or so. I find this rather disconcerting... the old site had some issue here, but having the column on the left at least shifted stuff more towards the middle of the display and having an extra inch of width to the titles helped keep it from feeling as extremely unbalanced. If I'm browsing on my large monitor (2560x1440 res) the problem is even greater with the entire right half of my screen completely blank.

I'm curious why we have a fixed-width layout rather than adapting to the display of the users. The forum software does this, it's just the homepage that doesn't... seems odd.
I agree. The narrower title column is potentially annoying, but it might actually be dynamically sized as I don't see any titles being split across two lines even with the narrower width.

Perhaps the visual balance issue can be resolved by moving the First and Latest columns to the left of the Topic Title. This would also make it easier to visually align those columns with shorter topic titles.

Most websites center their content even if it is fixed width. Having it flush left is unusual.

JimInIllinois
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:55 am

Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by JimInIllinois » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:57 am

tfb wrote:It's better than before. I'm afraid new visitors still can't figure out what's going on. Compare with the home page of Financial Wisdom Forum:

http://www.financialwisdomforum.org/

Mission statement, 2 major components: wiki + forum

Very clear and clean.
And, please note, centered.

sscritic
Posts: 21858
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by sscritic » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:10 am

I don't know what people are talking about when they say there is white space on the right side. I don't see any on my iPod touch. Do you really see a lot of white space on your smart phones? When I turn my touch from portrait to landscape, the font size increases so that it looks as if the proportions are the same, so the amount of white space is the same in either orientation. Now everything is so small that I usually do whatever the opposite of pinch is which acts as a zoom so that I don't even see the right hand side at all, let alone any white space.

JimInIllinois
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:55 am

Re: Bogleheads.org Home Page Updated

Post by JimInIllinois » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:25 am

sscritic wrote:I don't know what people are talking about when they say there is white space on the right side. I don't see any on my iPod touch. Do you really see a lot of white space on your smart phones? When I turn my touch from portrait to landscape, the font size increases so that it looks as if the proportions are the same, so the amount of white space is the same in either orientation. Now everything is so small that I usually do whatever the opposite of pinch is which acts as a zoom so that I don't even see the right hand side at all, let alone any white space.
Try a 1920x1080 monitor.

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