Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

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Topic Author
SimchaE
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:12 am

Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by SimchaE »

Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum.
As an NRA (USA non-resident alien), I understand the problematic issue of estate tax. I have heard conflicting opinions about a related issue:
If I hold only Irish-situs stocks, via the LSA, it is clear that there will be no USA tax due on my estate.
However, I have also heard that if the shares are held in a USA-based institution (e.g. Interactive Brokers), my assets will not be released until the institution receives a "Transfer Certificate" from the IRS, and that this form is required for anyone who is not in the USA or a US citizen.
I have been told that there is a long backlog for the IRS to issue these certificates, perhaps 12-18 months - and there is no transparency as to when the certificate will be issued, and nobody to speak with. So even with no taxes owing at all, heirs would not be able to gain access to the funds for a year or more!.

Can anybody here either confirm or refute the need for a Transfer Certificate? Do I need to move all my funds from Interactive Brokers to somewhere like Saxo Bank?

Many thanks!
daviddem
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:53 pm

Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

I can't speak for other US brokerages, but for Interactive Brokers, it has been confirmed to myself and others by IB's estate processing department that, as long as they are satisfied that the account does not hold in excess of $60k of US situs assets, they do not require an IRS transfer certificate to release the account to the heirs. See copies of two emails below, including one from the head of IB estate planning department.

Note 1: your cash balance in a IB LLC account does count towards the $60k limit. Your cash balance in a IBIE account does not count towards the $60k limit (also confirmed by IB estate processing). US-domiciled ETFs, mutual funds and stocks of US corporations always count as US situs assets.

Note 2: IB estate processing will still require paperwork from your country of residence, such as a death certificate, a court order or official document adjudicating the estate to the heirs, a tax clearance certificate etc. This is normal and also applies to normal bank accounts and other assets in your estate. Depending on which country you live in, this can also take some time. For example, I've been through a couple of successions in Belgium and it takes a few months to get everything settled. Best you can do is to make sure your heirs have access to enough funds to cover immediate expenses such as your funerals, their living expenses, notary expenses, taxes etc and that they know what to do, what and where your assets are, which documents they will need, who to contact etc

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Topic Author
SimchaE
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by SimchaE »

Thank you for the quick response.
The emails *seem* to say that there is no need to worry. I only wish that it were worded in a clearer and more categorical manner, such as:
"We certify that, after we are convinced that the legal heirs are making the request, we will release all assets that we believe are not US situs, such as Ireland-based UCITs, and will not require the legal heirs to wait until we receive a transfer certificate."
Topic Author
SimchaE
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:12 am

Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by SimchaE »

I have a follow-up question for you, daviddem, if you don't mind.

You wrote:
"Note 1: your cash balance in a IB LLC account does count towards the $60k limit. Your cash balance in a IBIE account does not count towards the $60k limit"

I presume that my account is in IB LLC. What do I have to do to move cash to IBIE?
I am a resident of Israel.

Thanks again!
daviddem
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:53 pm

Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

You have to be residing in Europe to have a IBIE account. You can verify whether your account is with IB LLC by generating a pdf activity statement. If the address at the top of the statement says "Interactive Brokers LLC, Two Pickwick Plaza, Greenwich, CT 06830" then you are with IB LLC.

One handy way to keep your cash balance in your IB LLC account under $60k is to invest the cash in a non US domiciled short-term money market mutual fund or ETF. Not only this will shelter the cash from US estate tax, but it will also yield more interest than IB would give you. That's what I do.
Last edited by daviddem on Fri Jan 26, 2024 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Laurizas
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Location: Lithuania

Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Laurizas »

SimchaE wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:29 am even with no taxes owing at all, heirs would not be able to gain access to the funds for a year or more!
Ways to avoid that:
1) make a joint account;
2) give logins to heirs.

After death the equities are sold, money transfered to dead's person bank account and is divided as required.
TBillT
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Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:43 pm

Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by TBillT »

deleted- not sure
daviddem
Posts: 341
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

Laurizas wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:03 pm
SimchaE wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:29 am even with no taxes owing at all, heirs would not be able to gain access to the funds for a year or more!
Ways to avoid that:
1) make a joint account;
2) give logins to heirs.

After death the equities are sold, money transferred to dead's person bank account and is divided as required.
Except the dead person's bank account will also be frozen upon his death, until the succession has been processed. There is no real reason to sell everything. The IB account will receive the same treatment as any other bank account of the deceased person.

Having a joint account may help though. Rules differ from country to country for the treatment of a joint account upon the death of one of the holders. I am not sure what IB's procedure is in that case. It may be as simple as presenting the death certificate of the deceased holder, however in some countries, inheritance taxes are due, legal heirs cannot be deprived of their inheritance etc. IB might require extra paperwork certifying that the surviving holder is legally entitled to inherit the account and/or that any tax due has been paid.

Here is an example in the UAE, where a joint bank account certainly didn't make things easier for the surviving holder. And I know from personal experience that, in Belgium, joint accounts are also blocked until the succession has been processed.
Laurizas
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Location: Lithuania

Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Laurizas »

daviddem wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:37 pm Except the dead person's bank account will also be frozen upon his death, until the succession has been processed. There is no real reason to sell everything.
There is - if one sells, there is no need to deal with IB and IRS anymore. Ofcourse, depending on tax regime, it could be a taxable event.
daviddem
Posts: 341
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

Laurizas wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:01 am
There is - if one sells, there is no need to deal with IB and IRS anymore. Ofcourse, depending on tax regime, it could be a taxable event.
As I said above, dealing with IB upon the death of the account holder is not more complicated than dealing with the local bank or brokerage accounts of the deceased.

And as I also said above (confirmed by IB estate processing), there is no dealing with the IRS as long as the deceased does not have more than $60k of US-situs assets in his estate.
pertheri
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by pertheri »

Have you consider holding your assets through a corporate account? Depending on your jurisdiction it might be easier to change ownership of the company and avoid all the trouble with banks and brokers.
daviddem
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

pertheri wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:41 pm Have you consider holding your assets through a corporate account? Depending on your jurisdiction it might be easier to change ownership of the company and avoid all the trouble with banks and brokers.
It may help but the corporation itself must also go through the probate process of the country of residence of the deceased, since the corporation is an asset that belonged to the deceased.

The only real way to remove assets from an estate and avoid probate is via a revocable trust. If the country in question recognises trusts / has trust law, then it's relatively easy and cost-effective (if you do not use a professional trustee).

Israel has a trust law, so that may be an avenue for OP to research. Basically, he would create a revocable trust of which he is at the same time the grantor, the trustee and the beneficiary during his lifetime, and he would name his heirs as beneficiaries upon his passing and a successor trustee. This effectively transfers legal ownership of his assets to the trust, thereby removing said assets from his estate and avoiding probate. OP would retain beneficial ownership and control of the assets during his lifetime. Another thing such a revocable trust is helpful with is that OP would be able to dictate how the assets of the trust are distributed: maybe he would prefer to leave the capital untouched and the heirs to live only on dividends for example. Or maybe he would like to transfer ownership of the assets to the beneficiaries progressively over time, instead of all at once.

Once the trust is created, OP would create a trust account with IB, and contact IB to transfer his personal account to the trust account. This would entirely avoid the probate process in Israel (but would not shelter OP from US estate tax if the trust holds more than $60k US situs assets).
Topic Author
SimchaE
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:12 am

Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by SimchaE »

Thank you for your responses.

*Pertheri*, regarding setting up a corporation: are there enough advantages to this (over simply moving my assets to an non-USA broker) to offset the initial setup expenses and ongoing costs/work?
The one advantage that I can think of is that it will delay payments of capital gains (since if I don’t use a corporate blocker I must sell all my present US-situs stock, though hopefully I can simply transfer my Ireland-domiciled stocks). I recognize, of course, that delaying paying capital gains is worthwhile – but I’m trying to simplify things. So here’s my question:
If I end up deciding that I can’t remain at Interactive Brokers in the present format – do you (or others) feel that it makes sense to go through the hassle/costs of setting up a corporate account, as opposed to simply abandoning Interactive Brokers for Saxo Bank?

*Daviddem*, regarding a revocable trust: certainly a possible direction, and beneficial in many ways. But it does not seem to solve the specific issue that I am trying to address: possible delays in Interactive Brokers transferring funds to heirs until it receives a Transfer Certificate from the IRS. Am I correct in that?

In order to help me make a decision, I sent specific questions to Interactive Brokers (perhaps more detailed than yours, daviddem), to which I have not yet received a response. Below are the questions (I have deleted some of the introductory explanatory paragraphs). I will post any response I get.
--
I have a question about, after my demise, the timeline for transferring my estate to my heirs (after they have demonstrated to your satisfaction that they are indeed my legal heirs, of course).
1. If I have only Ireland domiciled assets, will you require the heirs to wait until you receive a Transfer Certificate from the IRS, or will you release those assets without having to wait for it?
2. If I also have cash, but under $60,000 – will you require the heirs to wait until you receive a Transfer Certificate from the IRS, or will you release those assets without it?
3. If I have over $60,000 in cash - will you require the heirs to wait until you receive a Transfer Certificate from the IRS, or will you release the first $60,000 without it?
daviddem
Posts: 341
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

SimchaE wrote: Mon Jan 29, 2024 4:30 am
*Daviddem*, regarding a revocable trust: certainly a possible direction, and beneficial in many ways. But it does not seem to solve the specific issue that I am trying to address: possible delays in Interactive Brokers transferring funds to heirs until it receives a Transfer Certificate from the IRS. Am I correct in that?
A revocable trust would most likely not help with that. However, I am confident that, in the current state of things, if you follow the simple usual precautions about Irish ETF and low cash balance, IBKR will not require your heirs to obtain an IRS transfer certificate. This may change, for example if the IRS starts insisting that US brokers obtain a transfer certificate for all NRA accounts, regardless of what's in them. If that ever happen, it will still be time to make changes then.

All IBKR is trying to do here is to protect themselves because US brokers are liable for the unpaid US taxes of their clients. If IBKR is satisfied that a NRA account does not owe estate tax because it does not hold US situs assets in excess of $60k, then there is no motivation for them to require a transfer certificate.

Let us know once you receive a reply from IBKR. It never hurts getting one more confirmation.
Topic Author
SimchaE
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:12 am

Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by SimchaE »

On January 25, I sent an email request with my questions to estateprocessing@interactivebrokers.com.
I sent a reminder a week later
So far - nothing. I have just sent a second reminder.

Any suggestions as to what else to do, or must I just wait patiently? (When I sent my original request online, they referred me to the above email.)

Thanks!
daviddem
Posts: 341
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

I asked them a different question on Jan 26 and I only received a reply today. So yes, just wait. If you are already a client, ask your question through the support message center. They have a category for estate processing.
Topic Author
SimchaE
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by SimchaE »

Okay, I finally received a reply, and it basically agrees with what they sent you, daviddem, with some additional details.
Below are the three questions I asked, and IBKR's responses (words in CAPS are what I am adding now for clarity, since I can't post their responses in red):

"I manage the estate processing team. Please see answers to your questions below in red regarding our *current* policies and procedures.

QUESTION 1. If I have Ireland domiciled assets, will you require the heirs to wait until you receive a Transfer Certificate from the IRS, or will you release those assets without having to wait for it?
ANSWER 1: We will release them. We do not require a transfer certificate to disburse non-US assets to heirs.

QUESTION 2. If I also have cash, but under $60,000 – will you require the heirs to wait until you receive a Transfer Certificate from the IRS, or will you release the cash without it?
ANSWER 2: If total of US assets is under $60k USD, we do not require a transfer certificate for disbursement of those assets.

QUESTION 3. If I have over $60,000 in cash - will you require the heirs to wait until you receive a Transfer Certificate from the IRS, or will you release the first $60,000 without it? (Note: I have no other USA situs assets.)
ANSWER 3: Generally, if there are more than 60k in US assets, we require a transfer certificate before releasing any of US assets.

Bottom line seems to be that it is indeed safe for NRAs to keep assets at Interactive Brokers so long as you are sure to be well below the $60K limit in US-based assets, including cash. :)
But note the phrase "CURRENT policies and procedures." So one has to realize that this could change.
Laurizas
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Laurizas »

SimchaE wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:56 am QUESTION 3. If I have over $60,000 in cash - will you require the heirs to wait until you receive a Transfer Certificate from the IRS, or will you release the first $60,000 without it? (Note: I have no other USA situs assets.)
ANSWER 3: Generally, if there are more than 60k in US assets, we require a transfer certificate before releasing any of US assets.
60 k at IB Ireland?
daviddem
Posts: 341
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

Laurizas wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:06 pm 60 k at IB Ireland?
No, IB Ireland is different. OP is from Israel, so he is with IB LLC, not IB Ireland.

IB Ireland
  • Cash does NOT count as a US situs asset
  • US stocks and US-domiciled ETFs do count as US situs assets
IB LLC (= IB US)
  • Cash does count as a US situs asset
  • US stocks and US-domiciled ETFs do count as US situs assets
The above was confirmed by IB estate processing.

No matter which branch of IB you are with, keep your US situs assets below $60k
Last edited by daviddem on Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
daviddem
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

SimchaE wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 11:56 am Okay, I finally received a reply, and it basically agrees with what they sent you, daviddem, with some additional details.
Below are the three questions I asked, and IBKR's responses (words in CAPS are what I am adding now for clarity, since I can't post their responses in red):

"I manage the estate processing team. Please see answers to your questions below in red regarding our *current* policies and procedures.

QUESTION 1. If I have Ireland domiciled assets, will you require the heirs to wait until you receive a Transfer Certificate from the IRS, or will you release those assets without having to wait for it?
ANSWER 1: We will release them. We do not require a transfer certificate to disburse non-US assets to heirs.

QUESTION 2. If I also have cash, but under $60,000 – will you require the heirs to wait until you receive a Transfer Certificate from the IRS, or will you release the cash without it?
ANSWER 2: If total of US assets is under $60k USD, we do not require a transfer certificate for disbursement of those assets.

QUESTION 3. If I have over $60,000 in cash - will you require the heirs to wait until you receive a Transfer Certificate from the IRS, or will you release the first $60,000 without it? (Note: I have no other USA situs assets.)
ANSWER 3: Generally, if there are more than 60k in US assets, we require a transfer certificate before releasing any of US assets.

Bottom line seems to be that it is indeed safe for NRAs to keep assets at Interactive Brokers so long as you are sure to be well below the $60K limit in US-based assets, including cash. :)
But note the phrase "CURRENT policies and procedures." So one has to realize that this could change.
Very good, one more confirmation is always welcome.

If things change, we will know about it very quickly I reckon...
Usernumber9
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Usernumber9 »

Thank your for the post. I have a question for people that have already filed form 706-NA:

I did the filing on april 2023 and havent got a response. What can I do after 13 months have passed? Do I need to worry?
daviddem
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

[duplicate post]
Last edited by daviddem on Tue Jun 18, 2024 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
daviddem
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

Usernumber9 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 8:07 pm Thank your for the post. I have a question for people that have already filed form 706-NA:

I did the filing on april 2023 and havent got a response. What can I do after 13 months have passed? Do I need to worry?
It notoriously takes a long time for the IRS to perform their audit of the estate.

Was this with an IBKR account? Was the decedent holding US situs assets in excess of $60k?

I would try to contact the IRS to follow up.
Kstyle
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Kstyle »

Usernumber9 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 8:07 pm Thank your for the post. I have a question for people that have already filed form 706-NA:

I did the filing on april 2023 and havent got a response. What can I do after 13 months have passed? Do I need to worry?
Are you with Lynx (IB)? Lynx send me a message it takes quite long for most of their clients.
Terrible-counter-624
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Terrible-counter-624 »

Hello all,

I am the guy behind this post on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/comment ... n_with_us/ and I am in the middle of the situation you're talking about.
TLDR: my father passed early in 2023 with 300k USD+ invested in US assets with Lynx/IB, IB blocked everything, we filed a 706NA and are now struggling with the IRS
Usernumber9 wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 8:07 pm Thank your for the post. I have a question for people that have already filed form 706-NA:

I did the filing on april 2023 and havent got a response. What can I do after 13 months have passed? Do I need to worry?
We filed the 706 NA in Dec 2023 (in accordance with the deadline) and received a first response in March 2024 assigning a temporary tax payer identification number (nothing more).
In June 2023 we already owe over 5k in interest on a 99K estate tax and a 1.670 USD penalty (for not paying the incorrect amount we calculated and filed spontaneously) before the due date = 9 months after the death date, when we only filed the 706-NA.
13 months seems extremely long though to hear nothing, do you have a temporary taxpayer number or an IRSN for the person you've filed for?
Are you listed as executor of the estate on the 706-NA? They will not talk to you over the phone if you are not, but there are ways around that.
I've got a phone number for you and a good tip on how to get in, but if you're not in their system yet, I highly doubt they will be able to help, worth a shot? Interest rates are 8 percent at the moment, it goes up fast...
Laurizas wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:03 pm Ways to avoid that:
1) make a joint account;
2) give logins to heirs.

After death the equities are sold, money transfered to dead's person bank account and is divided as required.
None of this works, my parents had a joint account and I have all the logins.
To make it worse, my moms solo account is actually still blocked as well (!).
It does not work because you get the worst of both legal situations, I can say from experience.

For BE: As soon as someone passes away, it is illegal to do any transactions on their accounts whatsoever, joint or not.
In case of standard marriage with full mutual assets, it's almost illegal to do something with your own accounts at that point...
You have a legal obligation to contact the company behind them, report the death and they will be blocked by them at that point.
In case of investments, after settling everything with the Notary, the official document dividing the estate must be provided to the company, and all heirs must agree on what to do with the assets, cash, ... (transfer the account to another name, transfer assets to another account within or outside of the company, sell and transfer money, ...) this can even be a different choice for every heir for their share.
But it does not happen automatically, IB also gives you 3 choices if I'm not mistaken.
BUT. IB does not execute this choice untill the transfer certificate has been received by them.

I have the logins, but all I can do is login and watch. no actions are possible from the moment they are informed of his death.
You must provide a death certificate to them, so they will know the death date and that is the moment the estate tax obligation is checked.
And in case they clearly see you performed an illegal action for BE law or avoided paying US tax with it, I'm not sure what they will do, can't be good I guess.

The whole situation is looked at as one. My dads account, my moms account and their mutual account.
All frozen by IB untill they have the 1 transfer certificate. Non-negotiable unfortunately.
They mix and match US and BE laws here, maybe some IE in it too, I don't know.

For the US: Anything with the deceased owners name on it is to be taxed in full, even joint accounts (which completely conflicts with BE law ofcourse, but they do not care, my mom has to pay estate tax on shares of which she actually already owns half)
SimchaE wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 9:29 am Can anybody here either confirm or refute the need for a Transfer Certificate? Do I need to move all my funds from Interactive Brokers to somewhere like Saxo Bank?
And for the others that are interested (and OP)
- I can confirm a transfer certificate is absolutely required for IB Ireland when they see your US assets are (well) above 60K USD.
- If you plan on being highly invested in the US directly, I (from our personal experience) would advise to either move to another broker altogether or to split your US assets over several brokers, so none of them have over 60K USD under them.
A very helpful guy on my post contacted Bolero after and found that they (KBC) does not report to the US tax authorities and does not enforce this rule.
A written statement from your heirs ("US assets are below 60K USD") would suffice at this point and 0 US tax would be owed.
- IB Ireland in our case, did not count USD cash as a US based asset, but ALL assets are blocked (US and non-US based along with all cash, both USD and others.)
Have a look at the assets ISIN code if you are wondering about the location, if it starts with 'US', it's based there. Anything else (CA, IE, BE, ... do not count towards this 60K USD)

- IB has a procedure to sell assets during this block though, we have not used it at this moment but are aware it exists (it requires all heirs to sign a document declaring they want IB to sell specific assets at the day price, it will stay locked, but it will be in cash)
- I have no idea what IB or the IRS do when the money required to pay the estate tax is blocked in the IB account, thankfully we are not in this situation.
Last edited by Terrible-counter-624 on Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
daviddem
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:39 pm For the US: Anything with the deceased owners name on it is to be taxed in full, even joint accounts (which completely conflicts with BE law ofcourse, but they do not care, my mom has to pay estate tax on shares of which she actually already owns half)
This could likely be avoided if your mother could provide proof to the IRS of how much she actually contributed to the joint account, such as statements showing cash/stock transfers from her individual bank/brokerage account to the IB account. But of course that would make it even more complicated to deal with the IRS. You can always pay, and claim a tax refund later if you can prove that a substantial part of the joint account was funded by your mother. It may also be possible to argue that, because they were married under the community regime, half of it automatically legally belonged to her. I am not sure what it would take as proof for the IRS to accept that. May be as simple as an official declaration from a Belgian notary and as complicated as a Belgian court ruling declaring so...

After paying the US estate tax, you may likely file for tax relief with the Belgian tax administration, under the principle of double taxation avoidance. They should exempt you or refund you part of the Belgian estate tax.
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:39 pm And for the others that are interested (and OP)
- I can confirm a transfer certificate is absolutely required for IB Ireland when they see your US assets are (well) above 60K USD.
Correct. And cash does not count towards the $60k limit for IBIE accounts (clients who live in the EU). But it does for IB LLC accounts (clients who live outside the EU)
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:39 pm - If you plan on being highly invested in the US directly, I (from our personal experience) would advise to either move to another broker altogether or to split your US assets over several brokers, so none of them have over 60K USD under them.

A very helpful guy on my post contacted Bolero after and found that they (KBC) does not report to the US tax authorities and does not enforce this rule.
Correct and incorrect:

1) The US rule is $60k US assets in the entire estate of the decedent, no matter where these assets are held.

2) The reason US brokers strictly enforce this rule is that, by US law, they are liable to the IRS for the unpaid taxes of their clients. So if they released the account and the heirs didn't pay the estate tax afterwards, the broker would be on the hook with the IRS to pay it themselves.

3) Non-US brokers/banks don't care because they are not liable for the failings of their clients towards the US IRS. However, that doesn't mean the tax is not due. The heirs are still liable for it. Not paying it is tax evasion. You may get away with it, and it seems many people do at this point in time. However, there may be one point at which the IRS decides to go after all these unpaid estate taxes. Don't forget that the US has a national debt issue... See this link:

Look who’s getting away with not paying this estate tax

4) Even some European brokers are warning people about this issue:

Swissquote: Avoid US-domiciled ETFs unless you want to end up like Al Capone

5) The one simple and fully legal solution is to not hold anything that has an ISIN starting with "US". That includes shares of US companies trading on European exchanges. If you use only UCITS ETFs, you are safe. Use Irish ones (ISIN starting with IE) for US equity exposure in order to minimize withholding tax on dividends of US companies.
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:39 pm - IB has a procedure to sell assets during this block though, we have not used it at this moment but are aware it exists (it requires all heirs to sign a document declaring they want IB to sell specific assets at the day price, it will stay locked, but it will be in cash)
- I have no idea what IB or the IRS do when the money required to pay the estate tax is blocked in the IB account, thankfully we are not in this situation.
I believe it should be possible to arrange with the IB estate processing department that they perform the payment on your behalf. Certainly worth asking them: estateprocessing at interactivebrokers.com

edit: I see in the Reddit thread that you are having issues with the money transfer to the IRS. Have you tried the pay with card or digital wallet options? Otherwise, there are also services which help American expats to pay their taxes from abroad. They can likely help you too. Try taxesforexpats and usexpattaxhelp. It seems that at least the latter can act as a qualified intermediary for the payment, and they have an office in Germany. Another alternative is if you know a person you trust who has a US bank account and can make the payment on your behalf.
Last edited by daviddem on Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:00 am, edited 5 times in total.
TedSwippet
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by TedSwippet »

Welcome to the forum.
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 5:39 pm I am the guy behind this post on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/BEFire/comment ... n_with_us/ and I am in the middle of the situation you're talking about.
TLDR: my father passed early in 2023 with 300k USD+ invested in US assets with Lynx/IB, IB blocked everything, we filed a 706NA and are now struggling with the IRS.
I am so sorry to see you in this situation. It is something we have been warning about for years, so that your post is one I had hoped never to read. Unfortunately though, here it is. :-(

While we all know what we ourselves hold, it can be hard or impossible to know what your parents hold. Yet in the context of estate taxes, what they hold matters far more to you than what you hold.

There is some good advice upthread already. To the extent that your mother contributed to the joint account, you should be able to get that removed from US estate tax liability; of course, it is possible this is small or even nothing, but worth a look. And you should be able to set off one country's estate/inheritance tax against another's, so that you are not double-taxed, but "only" end up paying the higher of the two countries' rates. Also, splitting to stay below £60k at any single broker technically does not avoid US estate tax (it is 'structuring'). US estate tax is liable on the total of US situs assets held, no matter where or how. (Although realistically, many non-US brokers will not know this or may not enforce it -- the problem here is that IB is a US broker.)

If you have no objection, I would like to add a link to your post to our wiki. The wiki has a lot of warning text about confiscatory US estate taxes, but a real-world cautionary tale of just how horrible the reality is "on the ground" -- which is what this is -- would help to bring home its full effects.

Again then, sorry for the mess you have been handed. Please come back and keep the thread updated when useful and convenient. All of the details you can give will help others, either to navigate the process, or hopefully to simply avoid it in the first place.
Last edited by TedSwippet on Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
daviddem
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

TedSwippet wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:08 am I am so sorry to see you in this situation. It is something we have been warning about for years, so that your post is one I had hoped never to read. Unfortunately though, here it is. :-(
It should really be displayed prominently at the very top of the non-US investing section in red, bold and large font, with a link to the wiki article.

"DO NOT PURCHASE US-DOMICILED ETF OR SHARES OF US COMPANIES"

And also in most of the non-US investing subreddits, FIRE blogs, FB groups, justETF etc... not sure how we could try talking them into it... the number of people I see in the forums who are happily piling up into US products, completely unaware of the possible consequences, is scary. I was one of them only a few years ago when I discovered the wiki.
Terrible-counter-624
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Terrible-counter-624 »

daviddem wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:21 pm This could likely be avoided if your mother could provide proof to the IRS of how much she actually contributed to the joint account, such as statements showing cash/stock transfers from her individual bank/brokerage account to the IB account. But of course that would make it even more complicated to deal with the IRS. You can always pay, and claim a tax refund later if you can prove that a substantial part of the joint account was funded by your mother. It may also be possible to argue that, because they were married under the community regime, half of it automatically legally belonged to her. I am not sure what it would take as proof for the IRS to accept that. May be as simple as an official declaration from a Belgian notary and as complicated as a Belgian court ruling declaring so...

After paying the US estate tax, you may likely file for tax relief with the Belgian tax administration, under the principle of double taxation avoidance. They should exempt you or refund you part of the Belgian estate tax.
My parents were married with full common goods, so according to Belgian law, half of everything on every account was hers indeed.
We could try after to see if they will accept some sort of document to prove this, but I doubt it very much.
The reclaim of part of the BE tax is on the planning when this whole IRS situation is finished.
daviddem wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:21 pm Correct and incorrect:

1) The US rule is $60k US assets in the entire estate of the decedent, no matter where these assets are held.

2) The reason US brokers strictly enforce this rule is that, by US law, they are liable to the IRS for the unpaid taxes of their clients. So if they released the account and the heirs didn't pay the estate tax afterwards, the broker would be on the hook with the IRS to pay it themselves.

3) Non-US brokers/banks don't care because they are not liable for the failings of their clients towards the US IRS. However, that doesn't mean the tax is not due. The heirs are still liable for it. Not paying it is tax evasion. You may get away with it, and it seems many people do at this point in time. However, there may be one point at which the IRS decides to go after all these unpaid estate taxes. Don't forget that the US has a national debt issue... See this link:

Look who’s getting away with not paying this estate tax

4) Even some European brokers are warning people about this issue:

Swissquote: Avoid US-domiciled ETFs unless you want to end up like Al Capone

5) The one simple and fully legal solution is to not hold anything that has an ISIN starting with "US". That includes shares of US companies trading on European exchanges. If you use only UCITS ETFs, you are safe. Use Irish ones (ISIN starting with IE) for US equity exposure in order to minimize withholding tax on dividends of US companies.
I am aware that what I typed is actually full on tax evasion and not a good/ legal solution...
But ... IB really seemed (my personal impression) to just want to cover themselves and that's it.
So if you provide them with that written document and the assets with them are in fact under 60K, they can say they did their part.
I didn't say it's a good solution, the best is indeed not getting over 50K (take a margin for growth) US assets and frequently rebalance if needed.

What would happen if a mutual account has 100K US assets on them for example?
Half of it legally belongs to the surviving spouse already according to BE law, but the US law would still see it as above 60K with the name on it.
No clue how IB would rule in this case.
daviddem wrote: Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:21 pm edit: I see in the Reddit thread that you are having issues with the money transfer to the IRS. Have you tried the pay with card or digital wallet options? Otherwise, there are also services which help American expats to pay their taxes from abroad. They can likely help you too. Try taxesforexpats and usexpattaxhelp. It seems that at least the latter can act as a qualified intermediary for the payment, and they have an office in Germany. Another alternative is if you know a person you trust who has a US bank account and can make the payment on your behalf.
The card or wallet options unfortunately do not work.
Due to it being an estate tax for foreigners, it's a specific document and tax code that is not in any of the lists for payment options. Code 07067 if I am not mistaken, and the form is 706-NA, can't find either in any of these options.
It seems this is meant for more standard taxes like income tax.
We do not know someone with a US bank account either, plus us paying 100K+ to a US individual would raise flags again left and right, both for us and them.
A payment directly to the IRS is not suspicious.
Those websites I could have a look at, but I wanted to keep risk of scams and wrong information at an absolute minimum so have only looked at official government websites for info to actually use. (Forums and others for tips and options though).
So I will keep my fingers crossed Belfius can do it this week, then check wether or not the IRS is willing to accept a 50 percent reduction (my mothers legal share), but that means filing a new 706-NA as well...
For now, we just want to stop the interest from racking us up a ridiculous amount.
daviddem
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

Ok good luck and let us know how it goes. Others can learn from your experience. I hope it works with Belfius.

I am pretty certain that the two websites I linked to are legit. I googled usexpattaxhelp and found their google maps location in berlin, linkedin page, facebook page, reviews etc
bsteiner
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by bsteiner »

Here is what the IRS says about transfer certificates: https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-bu ... ted-states.
Laurizas wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:03 pm ...
Ways to avoid that:
1) make a joint account;
...
Joint accounts don't always work the same way in other countries as they do in the United States. We had an estate where an account in another country was in the names of the decedent and one of his children. There was a question as to whether upon the decedent's death the account passed to that child, or half to that child and half to the decedent's estate. We also ended up litigating with the surviving spouse over how much if anything the surviving spouse was entitled to, and we ended up in Tax Court over how much was included in the decedent's estate for estate tax purposes.
daviddem wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2024 8:57 pm ...
The only real way to remove assets from an estate and avoid probate is via a revocable trust. If the country in question recognises trusts / has trust law, then it's relatively easy and cost-effective (if you do not use a professional trustee).
...
You would have to check whether a revocable trust would result in adverse tax consequences in the other country. While they're disregarded for income tax purposes in the United States, that's not the case in some countries.
gougou
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by gougou »

I’m sorry for the terrible situation Terrible-counter-624 is currently in.

I wonder does anyone here have experience holding US stocks via a holding company incorporated in another country? This could be your home country or one of those tax havens.

It seems this will completely avoid the estate taxes since the holding company will never die. And holding company doesn’t seem too difficult or expensive to set up.
The sillier the market’s behavior, the greater the opportunity for the business like investor.
Terrible-counter-624
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Terrible-counter-624 »

TedSwippet wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:08 am Welcome to the forum.
I am so sorry to see you in this situation. It is something we have been warning about for years, so that your post is one I had hoped never to read. Unfortunately though, here it is. :-(

While we all know what we ourselves hold, it can be hard or impossible to know what your parents hold. Yet in the context of estate taxes, what they hold matters far more to you than what you hold.

There is some good advice upthread already. To the extent that your mother contributed to the joint account, you should be able to get that removed from US estate tax liability; of course, it is possible this is small or even nothing, but worth a look. And you should be able to set off one country's estate/inheritance tax against another's, so that you are not double-taxed, but "only" end up paying the higher of the two countries' rates. Also, splitting to stay below £60k at any single broker technically does not avoid US estate tax (it is 'structuring'). US estate tax is liable on the total of US situs assets held, no matter where or how. (Although realistically, many non-US brokers will not know this or may not enforce it -- the problem here is that IB is a US broker.)

If you have no objection, I would like to add a link to your post to our wiki. The wiki has a lot of warning text about confiscatory US estate taxes, but a real-world cautionary tale of just how horrible the reality is "on the ground" -- which is what this is -- would help to bring home its full effects.

Again then, sorry for the mess you have been handed. Please come back and keep the thread updated when useful and convenient. All of the details you can give will help others, either to navigate the process, or hopefully to simply avoid it in the first place.
Thank you !

No objection at all, feel free to use it.
Like I said on reddit too, a full post will follow later to detail all the steps and problems we have encountered.

It seems my father really did not know, it was perfectly avoidable for him at any moment and there is absolutely no way he would have allowed so much of his profits to get wasted on taxes.
This is ofcourse a highly specialized forum with knowledgable people, so I'm not surprised to see you have been warning about it here, but as you see on the reddit as well, most people have 0 clue. Including but not limited to notaries, accountants and bookkeepers, everyone at every bank we have talked to, ... really surprising to me.
daviddem
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:37 pm This is ofcourse a highly specialized forum with knowledgable people, so I'm not surprised to see you have been warning about it here, but as you see on the reddit as well, most people have 0 clue. Including but not limited to notaries, accountants and bookkeepers, everyone at every bank we have talked to, ... really surprising to me.
This is likely because most people in Europe use European brokers or banks, which release accounts to the heirs regardless of the payment status of the US estate tax. Many of these brokers / banks are probably not even aware of it. Or at least their average customer rep is not.

imo IBKR and its affiliates like Lynx and Mexem should also warn their clients about this issue... there is not a word about that on their websites... shame!
Laurizas
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Laurizas »

daviddem wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2024 9:27 pm This is likely because most people in Europe use European brokers or banks, which release accounts to the heirs regardless of the payment status of the US estate tax. Many of these brokers / banks are probably not even aware of it.
Why would they be? US laws do not apply to them.
assyadh
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by assyadh »

I have been arguing with people on Reddit for the past 5 years that they should be really careful about listening to all the FIRE US based influencers advocating for things like VTI, or VOO only. I know this is not the problem encountered by the previous poster, but you won't believe the number of people who share portfolios with US situs assets (AAPL stock etc..) while residing in a country with no US estate tax treaty at the same time.
daviddem
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by daviddem »

assyadh wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2024 3:27 pm I have been arguing with people on Reddit for the past 5 years that they should be really careful about listening to all the FIRE US based influencers advocating for things like VTI, or VOO only. I know this is not the problem encountered by the previous poster, but you won't believe the number of people who share portfolios with US situs assets (AAPL stock etc..) while residing in a country with no US estate tax treaty at the same time.
Yes this is scary and we should really work with the admins of the subreddits, blog authors etc to convince them to display prominent warnings about this... What's the point spending your life saving and investing only to see a foreign government take a large chunk of your estate away from your heirs when this is so easily avoidable.

As Ted said above, brokers should also send a warning when a non US person located in a non-treaty country exceeds $60k US situs assets in her account. But of course, brokers bury their heads in the sand and hide behind "we are not providing tax advice"...
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Laurizas »

daviddem wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2024 1:07 am brokers bury their heads in the sand and hide behind "we are not providing tax advice"...
US laws do not apply across the pond.
Terrible-counter-624
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Terrible-counter-624 »

Laurizas wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2024 1:57 pm Why would they be? US laws do not apply to them.
Unfortunately, they very much do.
My dad never set a foot in the US, but he still chose to invest a very large chunk of his money in US based assets. It absolutely sucks, but I do understand that that subjects you to local law.
The reason most popular EU etfs are IE based is pretty similar, you use the local regulations in your favour.
Win some, lose some
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Laurizas »

Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 5:17 am My dad never set a foot in the US, but he still chose to invest a very large chunk of his money in US based assets. It absolutely sucks,
Explain, how IRS will collect taxes from your dad or his heirs?
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by TedSwippet »

Laurizas wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:02 am
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 5:17 am My dad never set a foot in the US, but he still chose to invest a very large chunk of his money in US based assets. It absolutely sucks,
Explain, how IRS will collect taxes from your dad or his heirs?
I am pretty sure this thread demonstrates precisely one way in which the US forcibly extracts estate tax from nonresident aliens. Specifically, it prevents (by regulation) the broker from releasing any of the dead person's assets to executors until the required US estate tax forms have been filed, and then only after any US estate tax has been paid. (Don't want to comply? Fine, then you receive none of your inheritance.)

You could of course point out that non-US brokers are not subject to US regulation, and so using a non-US broker could skirt the problem. And that is a valid point, the reply to which is: look at the US's 'qualified intermediary' program:
Under the Qualified Intermediary (QI) regime, non-US financial services providers such as banks and custodians can opt-in to become a withholding agent for US tax withholding and reporting purposes. Once an agreement with the IRS is approved to be a QI, non-US financial service providers can provide at-source US withholding tax services, and annual reporting, on certain US sourced income received on behalf of its customers or other business partners. In essence, the QI regime is a service of non-US financial service providers seeking to improve their customers’ (or business partners) US tax withholding and reporting experience on their US investments.
Many non-US brokers will be qualified intermediaries. Not least because, like with the gunboat diplomacy that is FATCA, the US makes not complying with its extraterritorial tax rules a major cost and hassle, to the extent that non-US banks and financial institutions are financially incentivised to put conforming to IRS rules above the interests of their own customers.
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Laurizas »

TedSwippet wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:28 am You could of course point out that non-US brokers are not subject to US regulation, and so using a non-US broker could skirt the problem
Aha
TedSwippet wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:28 am Many non-US brokers will be qualified intermediaries.
How sure you are? How many non us brokers have already become qualified intermediaries?
Terrible-counter-624
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Terrible-counter-624 »

Laurizas wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:02 am Explain, how IRS will collect taxes from your dad or his heirs?
Exactly what Ted said, they freeze your assets worth a whole lot more and done. At 8 percent interest you're gonna wanna pay ASAP as well.

And maybe at this moment they can't touch your other assets (EU broker, EU bank accounts,...) to settle that debt, but I wouldn't count on that being a certainty for life either.
Your heirs would inherit this debt all the same if you ignore it by the way (and even worse, be taxed on the frozen assets Again as they are in your name).
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Laurizas »

Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:20 am they freeze your assets.
US laws does not apply in my country, hence they have no right to freeze anything.
Terrible-counter-624
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Terrible-counter-624 »

Laurizas wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:23 am US laws does not apply in my country, hence they have no right to freeze anything.
I'm afraid that might be looking at it slightly too simplistic.
Compare it to getting on an American plane in your country, suddenly you are subject to US law because you are on what is considered to be US territory.
Or when you own a house in another country, you also have local obligations, even if you've never been there.
You choose to do these things, it's also your job to know your 'legal obligations' that come with it.

Same with these investments.
Your property is 'based' elsewhere and thereby you are subject to local law all the same.
Local law not supporting US law is irrelevant in this case, My dad invested through a Belgian/Dutch firm using a broker based in Ireland, and here we are trying to pay 100K to the US...

Not sure whether you're trying to convince me of your logic or you have a ton of US assets and don't like this thread, but it's true all the same my man, we owe the debt and we have our assets frozen.
The only way to fix it is by paying and not making the mistake again when all assets are transferred to my mom.
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Laurizas »

Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:45 am Compare it to getting on an American plane in your country, suddenly you are subject to US law because you are on what is considered to be US territory.
Or when you own a house in another country, you also have local obligations, even if you've never been there.
You choose to do these things, it's also your job to know your 'legal obligations' that come with it.
Except my US stocks are at non US broker, hence, not US territory, so the example with planes and houses does not fly here.
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:45 am Your property is 'based' elsewhere and thereby you are subject to local law all the same.
I can be a subject to US law from the perspective of IRS, but not my local law.
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:45 am Local law not supporting US law is irrelevant in this case,

Yes it is. Imagine I do something that is punishable by US law but not my local law and US prosecutor asks my extradition to US - good luck with that. Or imagine, that North Korea passes a law that every time I sell stocks I have to pay North Korea 50 % of my profit. My country simply ignore North Korea's requests to freeze my asset or to put me in jail or whatever
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:45 am Not sure whether you're trying to convince me of your logic
I am not.
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:45 am don't like this thread,
I do
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:45 am we owe the debt and we have our assets frozen.
US can think whatever they want, if they do not have a treaty with my country, IRS can not do anything.
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by TedSwippet »

Laurizas wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 7:16 am Or imagine, that North Korea passes a law that every time I sell stocks I have to pay North Korea 50 % of my profit. My country simply ignore North Korea's requests to freeze my asset or to put me in jail or whatever
Straw man argument. Of course Lithuania will ignore North Korea, because North Korea lacks the financial leverage to enforce any nonsense like this. The US, however has a lot of financial leverage, plenty enough to make its extraterritorial tax rules stick.

For example, in 2014 Lithuania signed a FATCA agreement with the US, to "... improve international tax compliance through mutual assistance in tax matters based on an effective infrastructure for the automatic exchange of information." That doesn't look at all like your country is ignoring extraterritorial US tax regulations. Quite the opposite.
Laurizas wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 7:16 am US can think whatever they want, if they do not have a treaty with my country, IRS can not do anything.
Not true. The IRS's reach into your country may be limited and patchy, but it is not nothing. For example, non-US brokers in the US 'qualified intermediary' programme routinely enforce US and IRS tax rules against US nonresident aliens, regardless of whether or not any relevant US tax treaty exists. (And of course, as we see, US-based brokers absolutely will do this.)
Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:45 am Not sure whether you're trying to convince me of your logic or you have a ton of US assets and don't like this thread, but it's true all the same my man, we owe the debt and we have our assets frozen.
Some people will never be convinced that something is true until it happens to them. However, please keep on posting updates to the thread. You're doing God's work here. A vivid first-hand account of the problem is worth a hundred theoretical warnings. (And again, sorry you're the unlucky soul embroiled in this whole mess. :-( )
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by Terrible-counter-624 »

Laurizas wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2024 7:16 am Except my US stocks are at non US broker, hence, not US territory, so the example with planes and houses does not fly here.
I can be a subject to US law from the perspective of IRS, but not my local law.
You're buying US stock, thereby US territory instantly
IE stock = Irish law, LX stock = Luxemburg law, ... Broker can impose extra rules or choose not to enforce other rules, but from a legal point of view, you don't have a leg to stand on.

FYI I just made a new account with Degiro (NL based) and they are also a qualified intermediary for the IRS.
Better make sure your non-US broker doesn't report to the IRS at this point in time and keep an eye on it that they don't start doing it later either.
Because your logic and stream of thinking will just hit a big wall with them, and that will be that.
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Re: Do US brokerages demand an IRS Transfer Certificate before releasing funds from an estate?

Post by TedSwippet »

Terrible-counter-624 wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:17 am Better make sure your non-US broker doesn't report to the IRS at this point in time and keep an eye on it that they don't start doing it later either.
Interactive Brokers Ireland as of 2021 (although, could of course have moved since):
Laurizas wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:52 am I had an account with Tradestation international so I was transferred to IBIE, ...
:-|
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