Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

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Neuralgia
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Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by Neuralgia »

So since this is a BogleHeads forum, I'd like to focus on Vanguard options, but we can share any investing Co.

I've been looking for a "conversion table" of USA ETDF's to Ireland's ETF's... without luck.

I know that in the US all ETF's a Distributed and not Accumulative ETF's, but would still be helpful for some users, especially if we need them to be in USD.

So far, I've used justetf.com to search for information.

So far, what I've found:

VOO has VUSD
https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile. ... 09#listing
Nice 0.07% ER

I'm trying to find a VTI alternative (I've always liked more VTI, than VOO), but no one follows the CRSP US Total Market Index in Europe :(

VXUS, which now follows FTSE Global All Cap ex US Index, without luck also.

Since Vanguard doesn't have anything that follows Nasdaq 100, they have VGT (MSCI US Investable Market Information Technology 25/50 Index). Nothing like it?

DO you guys have any other popular US ETF's with an equivalent in Ireland domiciled?
Last edited by Neuralgia on Sun May 02, 2021 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
TedSwippet
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Re: Vanguard USA ETD's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by TedSwippet »

Neuralgia wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 10:22 pm I'm trying to find a VTI alternative (I've always liked more VTI, than VOO), but no one follows the CRSP US Total Market Index in Europe :(
If you compare the performance of VTI and VOO over time, you should find that historically they have been virtually identical. Their respective indexes track extremely closely:

VOO vs. VTI - Vanguard's S&P 500 and Total Stock Market ETFs

Given this, it seems a bit pointless to search for a non-US domiciled equivalent to VTI, when VUSD would work just fine.
Neuralgia wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 10:22 pm VXUS, which now follows FTSE Global All Cap ex US Index, without luck also.
The only non-US domiciled ex-US ETF I'm aware of is VDU, from Vanguard Canada.

In practice, an ex-US ETF is going to be of most use to a US investor, letting them balance out domestic holdings. But because of unfavourable US tax laws, US investors cannot realistically use non-US domiciled ETFs. As a result, it is not particularly surprising that non-US domiciled ex-US ETFs are uncommon.
Astones
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by Astones »

VT does not exist.

Approximations to all caps world can be built by either combining 3 Ishares MSCI ETFs (world large+EM+world small) or two Vanguard tracking FTSE (developed+EM)
bluebereft
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by bluebereft »

Perhaps you could just use an all-world fund (vwrl/Vwra) and add on a s&p500 fund (cspx) to get the overweighted US position that you want.
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galeno
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by galeno »

You can get really close to VT by using 90% VWRD + WSML.
KISS & STC.
Astones
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by Astones »

galeno wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:09 pm You can get really close to VT by using 90% VWRD + WSML.
Some people advise against combining FTSE with MSCI.
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galeno
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by galeno »

Why? There is NO overlap.
Astones wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:21 am
galeno wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:09 pm You can get really close to VT by using 90% VWRD + WSML.
Some people advise against combining FTSE with MSCI.
KISS & STC.
Astones
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by Astones »

I think you are right, and we actually had this discussion before
Astones wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:38 am According to Bogleheads

The FTSE Global All Cap Index provides coverage of 98% of the world stock market capitalization. FTSE considers the market to consist of: [4]

Large cap stocks 70%
Mid cap stocks 20%
Small cap stocks 10%


Well, in virtue of this, another possibility would be

5)
FTSE All-World UCITS ETF (VWRL) 90%
Strategy of iShares MSCI World Small Cap UCITS ETF 10%

total number of holdings = 6912
expense ratio = 0.23

And if we could have small cap emerging we would improve but I couldn't find it.

I actually like this number 5). It's simple enough.
if you are not splitting developed and EM there should be no overlap.

We are short of 2000 holdings though, if we want to match VT.

The other possibility is something that someone also proposed, a three funds:

Ishares developed
Ishares emerging
Ishares small cap

^ this is practical because in order to tune the weights you just need to download the factsheets of MSCI and check the market cap.
Genghis
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by Genghis »

Without doing any fancy analysis, FTSE large and mid caps goes further down into the investable universe than MSCI.

FTSE All World index (VWRL) covers 90-95% of the investable market cap from the top.
https://research.ftserussell.com/Analyt ... nual=false

MSCI World Small Cap Index (WSML) covers 14% from the bottom of Dev World only.
https://www.msci.com/documents/10199/a6 ... 102eaa8399

There’s therefore some overlap and you’ll miss out on Emerging Markets small cap which are included in FTSE Global All Cap.
Astones
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by Astones »

Genghis wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 1:55 pm Without doing any fancy analysis, FTSE large and mid caps goes further down into the investable universe than MSCI.

FTSE All World index (VWRL) covers 90-95% of the investable market cap from the top.
https://research.ftserussell.com/Analyt ... nual=false

MSCI World Small Cap Index (WSML) covers 14% from the bottom of Dev World only.
https://www.msci.com/documents/10199/a6 ... 102eaa8399

There’s therefore some overlap and you’ll miss out on Emerging Markets small cap which are included in FTSE Global All Cap.
MSCI Developed + EM + small goes even further than VWRL.
VWRL has about 3k holdings, compare it with the 9k of VT.
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galeno
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by galeno »

The only equity ETF we use is VWRD. We used to hold 80% VWRD + 10% WSMS + 10% VDEM. To slightly overweigh EM.

We decided that SIMPLICITY is better than trying to duplicate VT. VWRD alone tracks VT very well. Buy July 1 our portfolio will wind up being:
50% VWRD + 45% AGGG + 5% CASH.
KISS & STC.
Topic Author
Neuralgia
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by Neuralgia »

@galeno, any reason for you to lie Distributive over Accumulative?

I believe I read you are already retired, so I want to understand a little bit.

Both VWRD and AGGG are distributive.
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galeno
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by galeno »

We are retired. The accumulating UCITS ETFs reinvest the interest and dividend income FAR cheaper than you or I can. So if you are accumulating for retirement it's best to use accumulating UCITS ETFs.

For retirees it's the opposite. If I want CASH to spend on living expenses I have to pay a commission and a spread which is expensive. Right now our portfolio has a NET yield of 1.12% We spend 3%. So we STILL have to pay commissions and spreads on 63% of our stock and bond ETFs to get our cash. It's just a matter of saving some money.
Neuralgia wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:40 pm @galeno, any reason for you to lie Distributive over Accumulative?

I believe I read you are already retired, so I want to understand a little bit.

Both VWRD and AGGG are distributive.
KISS & STC.
Topic Author
Neuralgia
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by Neuralgia »

Now, my next question would be: When would it be wise to start DCA in a DISTRIBUTING ETF's?

Or you just sell 100% once you retire, with all the fee's that are related, and buy your sell in Distributive?

Acc should be SIMPLE, as you mention during my professional life. You just deposit $X/month and that's it. No time to enter your account every 3 months and reinvest... which is only time consuming. BUT, eventually, and I agree with you (that's why I mentioned I was aware you are retired), you'll need Distributive dividends to cash easily.

Am I mistaken?
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galeno
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Re: Vanguard USA ETF's: Ireland ETF equivalents (USD)

Post by galeno »

Never DCA into distibuting funds. Stick with accumulating funds even when you're retired.

Do NOT sell your entire portfolio of accumulating funds to buy distributing funds. You will pay 100% commissions and spreads. And then have to sell shares AGAIN of your distibuting funds (see my previous post) when you have to need cash for retirement living expenses because a 1.12% net portfolio yield will not pay your annual living expenses of 3 to 4%.

Possible exception. Say your portfolio is 80/20 and you want to go to 50/50. You sell shares from your accumulating equity ETFs and buy shares of distributing bond ETFs.
KISS & STC.
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