Big difference between USD <> EUR version of a fund

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hyperknot
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Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:44 am

Big difference between USD <> EUR version of a fund

Post by hyperknot » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:06 am

I've just checked and most ETFs listed on JustETF.com / Extraetf.com come up both as USD and EUR version in Interactive Brokers.
My question is that which one should I use? These are not hedged, but are just "listed" (?) in different currencies, so I thought their performance should be the same.

Still, to my surprise, their performance can be quite different. For example Lyxor World IT sector:

EUR: YTD-Performance 5,63%: https://www.lyxoretf.de/de/retail/produ ... 033667/eur
USD: YTD-Performance 6,99%: https://www.lyxoretf.de/de/retail/produ ... 033741/usd

I don't understand it then, how can they be so different? As an EU national, which options should I use, USD or EUR?
Last edited by hyperknot on Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Which currency/exchanges to use for given ETFs?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:16 am

But as I calculate, the dollar has risen 0.659% year to date. Wouldn't that make them closer to equal?
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Topic Author
hyperknot
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Re: Which currency/exchanges to use for given ETFs?

Post by hyperknot » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:29 pm

Do I understand right, that there are two different concepts here?

1. Usually ETFs are listed on multiple exchanges in different currencies, but the base currency of a fund is the same. There is a single ISIN number. For example Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF is in USD, but can be bought in USD, GBP, EUR currencies. Do I understand right that in this case, it totally doesn't matter what currency I'm buying the fund in, all I'm saving is just a bit of conversion fees at the moment when I'd sell it? I mean even if one currency crashes compared to the other, it doesn't matter because the fund will follow the price of the base currency.

2. That Lyxor has to be a special case, when the fund is actually available in multiple currencies as multiple funds. They have different ISIN numbers. Still, the big difference is very strange. I totally don't understand that one. They have 24% difference compared to each other, and USD <> EUR is kind of the same since the start of the year.

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BeBH65
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Re: Big difference between USD <> EUR version of a fund

Post by BeBH65 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:48 pm

hyperknot wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:06 am
I've just checked and most ETFs listed on JustETF.com / Extraetf.com come up both as USD and EUR version in Interactive Brokers.
My question is that which one should I use? These are not hedged, but are just "listed" (?) in different currencies, so I thought their performance should be the same.

Still, to my surprise, their performance can be quite different. For example Lyxor World IT sector:

EUR: YTD-Performance 5,63%: https://www.lyxoretf.de/de/retail/produ ... 033667/eur
USD: YTD-Performance 6,99%: https://www.lyxoretf.de/de/retail/produ ... 033741/usd

I don't understand it then, how can they be so different? As an EU national, which options should I use, USD or EUR?
On sites like morningstar you can graph both funds on the same graph. You will see that they track almost perfectly.


hyperknot wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:29 pm
1. Usually ETFs are listed on multiple exchanges in different currencies, but the base currency of a fund is the same. There is a single ISIN number. For example Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF is in USD, but can be bought in USD, GBP, EUR currencies. Do I understand right that in this case, it totally doesn't matter what currency I'm buying the fund in, all I'm saving is just a bit of conversion fees at the moment when I'd sell it? I mean even if one currency crashes compared to the other, it doesn't matter because the fund will follow the price of the base currency.
have a look at this wiki page Non-US_investors_and_ETF_currencies

hyperknot wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:29 pm
2. That Lyxor has to be a special case, when the fund is actually available in multiple currencies as multiple funds. They have different ISIN numbers. Still, the big difference is very strange. I totally don't understand that one. They have 24% difference compared to each other, and USD <> EUR is kind of the same since the start of the year.

From the number you have posted, they have a 0.64% difference in YTD performance, almost the change in exchange rate.

Edit: arithmetic does not work like that. :-)
Last edited by BeBH65 on Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

Topic Author
hyperknot
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Re: Big difference between USD <> EUR version of a fund

Post by hyperknot » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:30 pm

BeBH65 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:48 pm
On sites like morningstar you can graph both funds on the same graph. You will see that they track almost perfectly.
I just tried but I cannot. I tried
1. Search for LU0533033667, go to the results
2. Go to performance / interactive chart / comparison
3. Now if I try to enter LU0533033741 it says no results. If I type "Lyxor world" it still goes wrong.

BeBH65 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:48 pm
From the number you have posted, they have a 0.64% difference in YTD performance, almost the change in exchange rate.
From which numbers? From 5,63% vs. 6,99% I cannot get 0.64% in any way. (Tried subtracting, dividing, dividing 1+)

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BeBH65
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Re: Big difference between USD <> EUR version of a fund

Post by BeBH65 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:04 am

hyperknot wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:30 pm
BeBH65 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:48 pm
From the number you have posted, they have a 0.64% difference in YTD performance, almost the change in exchange rate.
From which numbers? From 5,63% vs. 6,99% I cannot get 0.64% in any way. (Tried subtracting, dividing, dividing 1+)
Seems I had a alternative arithmatic rules yesterday. The units had a difference of one, and the fractions also matched :-) .
Sorry .
Corrected my post.
Last edited by BeBH65 on Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BeBH65
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Re: Big difference between USD <> EUR version of a fund

Post by BeBH65 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:06 am

double
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

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BeBH65
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Re: Big difference between USD <> EUR version of a fund

Post by BeBH65 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:13 am

hyperknot wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:30 pm
BeBH65 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:48 pm
On sites like morningstar you can graph both funds on the same graph. You will see that they track almost perfectly.
I just tried but I cannot. I tried
1. Search for LU0533033667, go to the results
2. Go to performance / interactive chart / comparison
3. Now if I try to enter LU0533033741 it says no results. If I type "Lyxor world" it still goes wrong.
I tried this on my local Morningstar (I am logged in) and get the expected results.
https://www.morningstar.be/be/etf/snaps ... entType=FE
And then use LU0533033741 in the comparison
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

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hyperknot
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Re: Big difference between USD <> EUR version of a fund

Post by hyperknot » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:46 am

BeBH65 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:13 am
I tried this on my local Morningstar (I am logged in) and get the expected results.
https://www.morningstar.be/be/etf/snaps ... entType=FE
And then use LU0533033741 in the comparison
Can you describe the steps you are doing? I'm trying it on the DE site, which seems to be the same as the BE site, which are all very different from the USA site.

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BeBH65
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Re: Big difference between USD <> EUR version of a fund

Post by BeBH65 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:36 am

hyperknot wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:46 am
BeBH65 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:13 am
I tried this on my local Morningstar (I am logged in) and get the expected results.
https://www.morningstar.be/be/etf/snaps ... entType=FE
And then use LU0533033741 in the comparison
Can you describe the steps you are doing? I'm trying it on the DE site, which seems to be the same as the BE site, which are all very different from the USA site.
this is the result of your step 1 + 2
https://www.morningstar.be/be/etf/snaps ... entType=FE
and then i click on the compare tab and enter LU0533033741
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

Topic Author
hyperknot
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Re: Big difference between USD <> EUR version of a fund

Post by hyperknot » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:44 am

This is unbelivable: the website is totally different for BE, DE and US versions. It was not possible to do this on the DE one, here is how it looks:
https://www.morningstar.de/de/etf/snaps ... entType=FE

Update: I actually went through all the European websites and compared them and it was only possible to do it on the BE one! So I'll be using that one from now on.

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