Boglebot - tool to help non-US investors to implement the 2-fund portfolio

For investors outside the US. Personal investments, personal finance, investing news and theory.
Sister forums: Canada, Spain (en español)
---------------
Post Reply
Topic Author
glorat
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 am

Boglebot - tool to help non-US investors to implement the 2-fund portfolio

Post by glorat »

Just for fun today, I created an interactive mini game/bot/roboadvisor to help international investors set their asset allocation and the Boglehead inspired 2-fund portfolio. It is geared to non-US person investors and more helpful to countries with simple tax regimes. It will also finally generate a template you can copy/paste to this forum to ask fellow bogleheads for more advice.

This project is fully open source this and made available to all to contribute. I'm doing this because I learned so much from this forum and related places and want to give something back that uses my software skills and would be uniquely educational.

My ask for the community is

1) Any volunteers who can contribute content - either directly to github or this thread or by PM

The content of the site can be seen at https://www.boglebot.com

All raw editable content can be seen on github at https://github.com/glorat/boglebot/tree ... lay/scenes
The raw text content is written in Choicescript so no developer knowledge required.

Instructions on how to locally test the code, make changes and contribute will come later - but if you're technically minded, you can probably download it and figure it out. The easiest way to edit, test, view changes is with the Choicescript IDE at https://github.com/ChoicescriptIDE/main/releases

---
EDIT: With moderator permission granted, project details and website are being shared with the community for feedback
EDIT (2019-09-30): Updated description to emphasise the 2-fund portfolio focus
Last edited by glorat on Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.
DJN
Posts: 793
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:30 am

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by DJN »

Hi glorat,
great idea. I have no skills in the area of programming but would be happy to contribute.
I am guessing that setting the boundaries for such an exercise would be key, would you think that the EU is a good starting point, I am not sure where you are based?
DJN
Yah shure. | Have a look at the Bogleheads Wiki in the first instance.
Topic Author
glorat
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by glorat »

DJN wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:49 am Hi glorat,
great idea. I have no skills in the area of programming but would be happy to contribute.
I am guessing that setting the boundaries for such an exercise would be key, would you think that the EU is a good starting point, I am not sure where you are based?
DJN
Thanks DJN (and the couple of people that have given feedback privately). No programming skills required at all to contribute. You can see the source for the content being built at https://github.com/glorat/boglebot/tree ... lay/scenes

I won't post a link to any actual deployment until I get some explicit auth from the mods (not sure if that is necessary but at least out of courtesy). I'll share the website with anyone that PM's me
me81
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:37 pm

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by me81 »

Hi glorat,

1. I surely think it's a great idea and no doubt it could help very many people once it's ready for the total beginner. Most of those with more experience and understanding would likely not use a software as we are all better than average.. :D.
I am not sure if you have considered (or if it even matters) the complexity of that disomogeneneous dream that Europe is.. Pension schemes (would they affect AA), taxation, real estate regulations (should it be part of an analysis of the best use of one's money?), all might be worth considering, or am I being too difficult?

2. More than happy to give feedback through ideas and comments, however wouldn't be of much use at a programming level..

Cheers!
User avatar
sgr000
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by sgr000 »

glorat wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:15 amJust for fun today, I created an interactive mini game/bot/roboadvisor to help international investors set their asset allocation and choose a sensible set of ETFs for their investment portfolio, based on the lazy 2 fund international boglehead portfolio. [...]

My ask for the community is
1) Any contributions to the idea of such a thing, please post here

E.g. advice on what an interactive website should do to be helpful and educational. What features to prioritise? What would be a good idea? Is this a stupid idea?

2) Any volunteers who want to have a look at what I've already made, please send me a private link and I'll send you the link to the working site
Well... once upon a time, there was this thing: the example illustrates the inputs and outputs for a certain portfolio choice. It could be mondernized to use ETFs instead, if you like.

It's no longer online, but I could dig up the code for you, if it's of interest. (Though be warned: it was Javascript, and hence ugly by definition.)
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 69985
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by LadyGeek »

glorat wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:58 am I won't post a link to any actual deployment until I get some explicit auth from the mods (not sure if that is necessary but at least out of courtesy). I'll share the website with anyone that PM's me
glorat has received permission from the Bogleheads' Advisory Board (the members who oversee the forum) to post a link to his website.

===============================
My first suggestions:

- Where an investment (stock, bond, etc.) is listed, please display both the fund name and the symbol.
- The site should support both desktop and mobile devices.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Topic Author
glorat
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by glorat »

me81 wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:25 am I am not sure if you have considered (or if it even matters) the complexity of that disomogeneneous dream that Europe is.. Pension schemes (would they affect AA), taxation, real estate regulations (should it be part of an analysis of the best use of one's money?), all might be worth considering, or am I being too difficult?
Europe is a mess - I can't handle it. At best, I might include UK recommendations since I've researched that well. For now, the bot is only helpful for countries with simple taxation. If we're lucky, DJN can help on the Europe guide!
LadyGeek wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:12 pm glorat has received permission from the Bogleheads' Advisory Board (the members who oversee the forum) to post a link to his website.

===============================
My first suggestions:

- Where an investment (stock, bond, etc.) is listed, please display both the fund name and the symbol.
- The site should support both desktop and mobile devices.
Thanks for facilitating the permission and suggestions. I've included link details in the top post now.

Agreed on displaying full names for all things. Call it out if that isn't the case anywhere!

This simple website should be totally mobile friendly (actually it is probably better on mobile than desktop).
User avatar
Barry Barnitz
Wiki Admin
Posts: 3261
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by Barry Barnitz »

Hi:
I have notified our Spanish affiliates of this project. Here is the link: Boglehead Bot (The International Boglebot).
Hola amigos!

Los compañeros del foro hermano (o padre ;-) ) bogleheads.org han comenzado un nuevo proyecto al que nos invitan. Os dejo los enlaces por si os interesa:
Además nos felicitan por alcanzar los 400 miembros en el foro!! :-)
Buen finde!
ClarkBo.
regards,
Additional administrative tasks: Financial Page bogleheads.org. blog; finiki the Canadian wiki; The Bogle Center for Financial Literacy site; La Guía Bogleheads® España site.
User avatar
kakadeluxe
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:41 am

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by kakadeluxe »

Hello.

I'm a computer programmer. I have seen the source, my opinion is that I want a version in Spanish, I should copy all and adapt it.

I don't know ChoiceScript. Is there a manner to separate the texts of description?. It's easier if the language is separated of the options, variables, calculations, etc...

@blbarnitz, What do you think?.

Image
"Compound interest, the eighth wonder of the world", Mayer Amschel Rothschild. | Your Money * (1 + i)↑n
Topic Author
glorat
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by glorat »

kakadeluxe wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:23 am Hello.

I'm a computer programmer. I have seen the source, my opinion is that I want a version in Spanish, I should copy all and adapt it.

I don't know ChoiceScript. Is there a manner to separate the texts of description?. It's easier if the language is separated of the options, variables, calculations, etc...
Great you are taking this up!

The downside of copying and adapting is that any changes in choices that need to be made will need to be done across the different forks. And "best" ETFs are changing quite rapidly (e.g. I added the VWRA recommendation only this week since it was launched only weeks ago)

I don't know exactly the best way of supporting multiple languages, especially with choicescript. One way is to ask for a language at the start and use if statements to offer different descriptions. Another is to simply be dual language depending on your chosen country (e.g. if you say you live in Spain, offer both English and Spanish, if you say you live in China, English and Chinese).

In any case, feel free to fork or offer pull requests
Vision
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:16 am

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by Vision »

[removed]
Last edited by Vision on Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Laurizas
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:44 am
Location: Lithuania

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by Laurizas »

Bogleheads wiki recommends AGGH, if i am not mistaken.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 69985
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by LadyGeek »

kakadeluxe wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:23 am Hello.

I'm a computer programmer. I have seen the source, my opinion is that I want a version in Spanish, I should copy all and adapt it.

I don't know ChoiceScript. Is there a manner to separate the texts of description?. It's easier if the language is separated of the options, variables, calculations, etc...
¡Hola de nuevo! (I am also a member of Bogleheads.es.)

I have software development experience with several languages, but I have no experience ChoiceScript.

To explain: The separation of text descriptions is normally achieved by the use of variables representing the text components. This is a common technique to support multiple languages.

For example, I have one file for English, one file for Spanish. (The language is a concept.)

/language/List_en.txt can contain:

Code: Select all

'WELCOME' => "Welcome!"
/language/List_es.txt can contain:

Code: Select all

'WELCOME' => "¡Bienvenido!"
The application can determine the user's language configuration. Then, it can include the appropriate language file which defines the language text variables.

Code: Select all

if (SPANISH) then
    include (/language/List_es.txt);
else
    include (/language/List_en.txt);
end
printf("%s\n", $WELCOME);
The output in Spanish will be:
¡Bienvenido!

The output in English will be:
Welcome!

The forum software, phpBB, utilizes this method. Here is the English language version: Bogleheads.org

Here is the Spanish language version of phpBB: Bogleheads® España (with some customization)
glorat wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:24 am I don't know exactly the best way of supporting multiple languages, especially with choicescript. One way is to ask for a language at the start and use if statements to offer different descriptions. Another is to simply be dual language depending on your chosen country (e.g. if you say you live in Spain, offer both English and Spanish, if you say you live in China, English and Chinese).

In any case, feel free to fork or offer pull requests
I do not see any ChoiceScript language syntax that can include a file to use as I described above. Your approach to use if() statements to display a single language, or to display both languages, are good options. (Also, to coordinate forks and pull requests.)
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
Topic Author
glorat
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by glorat »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:30 pm I do not see any ChoiceScript language syntax that can include a file to use as I described above. Your approach to use if() statements to display a single language, or to display both languages, are good options. (Also, to coordinate forks and pull requests.)
You gave me an idea, files can be loaded using the *gosub_scene command. If *gosub_scene can take a language variable, that would work reasonably well. E.g.

*gosub_scene myfile_${language}

I'm looking at the choicescript interpreter... it also doesn't look difficult to hack in new features to it if we want. Can make it follow some typical i18n template standards.
User avatar
kakadeluxe
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:41 am

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by kakadeluxe »

Hello @LadyGeek

I read you in Spanish forum. I know your idea of show text descriptions in some languages using variables. But @glorat should implement it in his source code.

Hello @glorat.

You can use variables for show ETF and bonds depending on country choice, view label country of startup.txt

Regards.
"Compound interest, the eighth wonder of the world", Mayer Amschel Rothschild. | Your Money * (1 + i)↑n
Topic Author
glorat
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by glorat »

kakadeluxe wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:43 am You can use variables for show ETF and bonds depending on country choice, view label country of startup.txt
On the todo list... I tried a couple of quick ways but I couldn't find a way of making it clean yet. I do want to keep all the text files understandable to the average person so community people can make changes more easily. Hopefully I'll try something this weekend
Laurizas wrote:Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:35 pm Hello, why there is no Europe in Boglebot? I do not think there are material differences from Japan and Hong Kong?
Europe has all sorts of tax related issues (unlike Hong Kong) that mean you have to pay attention to many details (like accumulation vs distribution for tax purposes). Some Europe expert volunteer (@DJN ?) would need to give some advice on what the key decision points are.

If you click on Japan (or US), it says those countries aren't supported because those two cases are extremely special. I have no intention of covering those (unless some volunteer does it)
Topic Author
glorat
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Volunteers to help with a Boglebot idea

Post by glorat »

Hi all - Just to updated on the sporadic changes being made in my spare time! The key changes are
  • Specific focus on implementing the 2-fund lazy portfolio (global equity fund + global bond fund)
  • Helping to find the best way to implement such a strategy amidst the myriad of ETF options
  • The final page generates a summary and template that can be used for people to create a new thread in this forum to ask for help
Sorry, I couldn't find any simple or good solutions to support translations while maintaining sync with the choice trees... I'm fine if people want to take a sizeable fork for other languages in specific countries or we find a way to merge somehow.

Feedback and offers for help always welcome!
Topic Author
glorat
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Boglebot - tool to help non-US investors to implement the 2-fund portfolio

Post by glorat »

Following user feedback from @tre3ori and the new availability of cheaper Vanguard funds, boglebot has been updated as follows:
- Vanguard expense ratios updated to their lower values
- Vanguard accumulating options added as they are likely preferred, notably VHVE/VFEA as the accumulating alternative to the previous VDEV/VDEM. Both with a super cheap TER of 0.14%
- Improved text explanations

Enjoy!
User avatar
kakadeluxe
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:41 am

Re: Boglebot - tool to help non-US investors to implement the 2-fund portfolio

Post by kakadeluxe »

glorat wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:28 pm Following user feedback from @tre3ori and the new availability of cheaper Vanguard funds, boglebot has been updated as follows:
- Vanguard expense ratios updated to their lower values
- Vanguard accumulating options added as they are likely preferred, notably VHVE/VFEA as the accumulating alternative to the previous VDEV/VDEM. Both with a super cheap TER of 0.14%
- Improved text explanations

Enjoy!
Hello glorat.

How is this?. I have seen in github than it's stopped, 5 mounths without changes.
"Compound interest, the eighth wonder of the world", Mayer Amschel Rothschild. | Your Money * (1 + i)↑n
Topic Author
glorat
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Boglebot - tool to help non-US investors to implement the 2-fund portfolio

Post by glorat »

kakadeluxe wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:05 pm How is this?. I have seen in github than it's stopped, 5 mounths without changes.

I'd like to think the simple answer is... investing in an international 2-fund portfolio is simple. I don't think the details have changed in the last 5 months!

That being said, if there are concrete suggestions to improve, I am active on this forums, the website is still maintained and I'm also happy to take pull request contributions to github.
User avatar
galeno
Posts: 2164
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:06 pm

Re: Boglebot - tool to help non-US investors to implement the 2-fund portfolio

Post by galeno »

i gave it a try. Good job.

We are USA-NRAs. No tax treaties with USA. Live in USD region.

The 2 ETF recomendation is 50% VWRD + 50% AGGU.

I concur. But I would choose VAGU over AGGU. As a Boglehead I prefer the Vanguard brand over Ishares.
KISS & STC.
TedSwippet
Posts: 3458
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: Boglebot - tool to help non-US investors to implement the 2-fund portfolio

Post by TedSwippet »

I have added a link to this from: Outline of Non-US domiciles - Bogleheads

Probably should have done that some time ago. :-(
Topic Author
glorat
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 am

Re: Boglebot - tool to help non-US investors to implement the 2-fund portfolio

Post by glorat »

galeno wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:19 am I concur. But I would choose VAGU over AGGU. As a Boglehead I prefer the Vanguard brand over Ishares.
Good point, this is another valid choice. Actually, I had started writing the content for this... it is done for EUR. Not yet for USD and for GBP, apparently it is in a half-written state
I offer you three choices.

1) The ETF AGBP is iShares Global Aggregate Bond UCITS that covers global bonds and is hedged to GBP.

2) Sterling it is!

The bond portion of your portfolio is set to...
Could someone do me a favour to save me research and give me the six tickers (and maybe names) of the ETFs that cover the cross-product of
1) CCY: USD, GBP, EUR
2) Accumulation/Distribution

and if there are any interesting Bond choices.

I will comment (in the bot too) that the Vanguard choices are relatively new to the market so AUM and liquidity are low. The iShares ones have the same TER (0.1%) and trade at narrower spreads.
White Wolf
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 7:55 am

Re: Boglebot - tool to help non-US investors to implement the 2-fund portfolio

Post by White Wolf »

glorat wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:46 pm Could someone do me a favour to save me research and give me the six tickers (and maybe names) of the ETFs that cover the cross-product of
1) CCY: USD, GBP, EUR
2) Accumulation/Distribution

and if there are any interesting Bond choices.

I will comment (in the bot too) that the Vanguard choices are relatively new to the market so AUM and liquidity are low. The iShares ones have the same TER (0.1%) and trade at narrower spreads.
Vanguard Global Aggregate Bond UCITS ETF
GBP Hedged (VAGS-Accumulating, VAGP-Distributing)
USD Hedged (VAGU-Accumulating, Could not find distributing version)
EUR Hedged (VAGF-Accumulating, VAGE-Distributing)
VWRP & Chill
Post Reply