New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

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imperia
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New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by imperia » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:37 am

My idea to present all new ETF on this topic:

SPDR has launched a new ETF – the SPDR MSCI World UCITS ETF.
It is Ireland domicile, use Physical (Full replication) , and has TER 0,12%.

The ETF is available to trade in euros on Xetra (SPPW GY), Borsa Italiana (SWRD IM), and Euronext Amsterdam (SWRD NA), as well as on London Stock Exchange in US dollars (SWRD LN) and pound sterling (SWLD LN). Income is accumulated within the portfolio.

https://www.etfstrategy.com/ssga-launch ... ope-95487/

I have used IWDA, but from now I will invest in SPDR MSCI World UCITS ETF (SWRD).
Last edited by imperia on Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

s8r
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by s8r » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:30 am

This is great news! More pressure for BlackRock to reduce the expense ratio of their MSCI World ETF (IWDA). :beer

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imperia
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by imperia » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:48 am

We all need to start buying SWLD instead of IWDA to increase pressure on Black Rock, Xtrackers and others.
I will only accept TER below 0.12% for IWDA, because reducing from 0.2 to 0.12 is not enough.

DJN
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by DJN » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:57 am

Thanks, this is also an accumulating one which should be added to the EU investor options.
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gargagnam
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by gargagnam » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:58 am

Out of curiosity, would you invest on this right away or would you wait some time to have a track record?

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imperia
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by imperia » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:17 am

I will start to invest, SPDR is big ETF provider and AUM is allready 264 million euros.

stecka
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by stecka » Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:24 am

Thank you for highlighting this ETF release! I have so far gone with IWDA but will start buying the US dollar version of this ETF on LSE (SWRD LN) instead going forward, as long as the bid/ask spread is not too bad. Hopefully there will be some liquidity soon.

s8r
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by s8r » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:04 am

BlackRock: If you are reading this, please lower the costs of IWDA. We are already paying you tens of millions annually with the current expense ratio. :happy

assyadh
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by assyadh » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:52 pm

Lyxor has a similar one, with a 0.12% ER and no lending of the shares

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BeBH65
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by BeBH65 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:10 am

If I am not mistaken, the Luxor fund is domiciled in Luxemburg. Luxemburg has slightly less favourable tax treaties then Ireland. For instance a. Irish fund pays 15% us tax on us dividend, a Luxembourgish fund 30%.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

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imperia
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by imperia » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:28 am

assyadh wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:52 pm
Lyxor has a similar one, with a 0.12% ER and no lending of the shares
SPDR MSCI World UCITS ETF does not currently engage in securities lending.

I lake securities lending, IWDA has Securities Lending Return 0.03%

ICH
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by ICH » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:31 pm

assyadh wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:52 pm
Lyxor has a similar one, with a 0.12% ER and no lending of the shares
As BeBH65 mentioned, this is domiciled in Luxembourg; so if you consider the tax withholding it becomes more expensive.

Why would a company domicile such a fund in Luxembourg? :oops: Why?

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imperia
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by imperia » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:09 pm

All Lyxor fonds are Luxembourg or France domicile.
Ireland is far from France:).
Amundi fonds are also Luxembourg and France domicile.

Viva la France:)

nasaliscarvatus
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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by nasaliscarvatus » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:05 pm

Regarding MSCI Emerging Markets- is there any difference in withholding taxes among IE and LU fonds?

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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by TedSwippet » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:08 pm

nasaliscarvatus wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:05 pm
Regarding MSCI Emerging Markets- is there any difference in withholding taxes among IE and LU fonds?
Probably very hard to tell. From the outside you would have to compare the treaty rates (if any) for each Emerging Markets country with Ireland and Luxembourg.

A close reading of two comparable ETFs' annual reports, one domiciled in LU and the other in IE -- if you can find two such ETFs -- might provide a short-cut to this, as that should show you the amount of foreign tax paid. They would have to be directly comparable ETFs though; that is, hold pretty much exactly the same stocks in the same proportions.

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imperia
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by imperia » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:29 am

More good news and more disappointment.

Amundi has launched a suite of nine ultra-low-cost ETFs – branded ‘Prime’ – on Xetra that have been designed to provide investors with core portfolio exposures.
Consisting of five equity and four fixed income ETFs, each fund is directly replicated, linked to a Solactive index and comes with a total expense ratio (TER) of just 0.05%

https://www.etfstrategy.com/amundi-intr ... tfs-65487/

They are:
Amundi Prime Europe UCITS ETF
Amundi Prime Eurozone UCITS ETF
Amundi Prime Japan UCITS ETF
Amundi Prime USA UCITS ETF
Amundi Prime Global UCITS ETF
Amundi Prime Euro Corporates UCITS ETF
Amundi Prime Euro Govies UCITS ETF
Amundi Prime Global Govies UCITS ETF
Amundi Prime US Treasury UCITS ETF

All this ETFs are Luxembourg domicile, and that is problem if ETF hold USA stocks, like: Amundi Prime USA UCITS ETF
Amundi Prime Global UCITS ETF.
What's wrong with the French ETF providers?
Whether it is ignorance or,...?

lutherbliss
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by lutherbliss » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:37 am

Are these accumulating or distributing?

retribution
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by retribution » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:41 am

Hi,

I looked at this ETF on many platforms and there is not much information on the bid/ask spread.

The volume seems to be non-existent on the charts and the bid/ask brokers screen.

Is there something wrong? or would it take a long time for it gain any volume?

Should I only invest after it has gained some volume?

Appreciate anyone views on this.

Thank you in advance for your help. Much appreciated.

assyadh
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by assyadh » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:06 pm

I don't know for sure if there is any difference at all. The tax treaties rates are similar between Ireland and Luxembourg, (15/5%)

See https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/Tax_Tre ... 19_Feb.pdf

Also, the Amundi ones are distributing dividends, so for most investors it's a problem.

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BeBH65
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by BeBH65 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:49 pm

Make sure you look at the rates paid by Luxembourgish/Irish investment funds on dividends distributed by us companies.

If I remember correctly individuals in Ireland and Luxemburg pay 15%. Irish funds also, but Lux funds pay the standard 30%.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

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Re: New cheap Msci World ucits etf

Post by Dottie57 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:51 pm

imperia wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:48 am
We all need to start buying SWLD instead of IWDA to increase pressure on Black Rock, Xtrackers and others.
I will only accept TER below 0.12% for IWDA, because reducing from 0.2 to 0.12 is not enough.
Is TER basically expense ratio?

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BeBH65
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by BeBH65 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:59 pm

TER: Total Expense Ratio.
But still excluding some expenses as internal transaction costs, and also excluding elements like income from lending.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

assyadh
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by assyadh » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:08 pm

BeBH65 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:49 pm
Make sure you look at the rates paid by Luxembourgish/Irish investment funds on dividends distributed by us companies.

If I remember correctly individuals in Ireland and Luxemburg pay 15%. Irish funds also, but Lux funds pay the standard 30%.
You are right, I just found an explanation from KPMG. 30% for lux, 15% for IE

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BeBH65
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by BeBH65 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:19 pm

Could you post the URL for future reference.
I lost the reference that I found before.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

assyadh
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by assyadh » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:36 pm


Topic Author
imperia
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by imperia » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:20 am

retribution wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:41 am
Hi,

I looked at this ETF on many platforms and there is not much information on the bid/ask spread.

The volume seems to be non-existent on the charts and the bid/ask brokers screen.

Is there something wrong? or would it take a long time for it gain any volume?

Should I only invest after it has gained some volume?

Appreciate anyone views on this.

Thank you in advance for your help. Much appreciated.
Amundi Prime ETFs are launched on Wednesday 13.03.2019. so just one day ago.

retribution
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by retribution » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:55 am

Hi,

Apologies my mistake. I was referring to SPDR® MSCI World UCITS ETF SWRD

It was listen o 04 March 2019.

Does it take like few months to build volume?

Pardon my newbie questions. I'm new at this.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my query.

Much appreciated.



imperia wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:20 am
retribution wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:41 am
Hi,

I looked at this ETF on many platforms and there is not much information on the bid/ask spread.

The volume seems to be non-existent on the charts and the bid/ask brokers screen.

Is there something wrong? or would it take a long time for it gain any volume?

Should I only invest after it has gained some volume?

Appreciate anyone views on this.

Thank you in advance for your help. Much appreciated.
Amundi Prime ETFs are launched on Wednesday 13.03.2019. so just one day ago.

Topic Author
imperia
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by imperia » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:09 am

AUM is 265 millions euros, so I hope volume will come soon.

trinca92
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by trinca92 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:29 am

Hi everyone!

I'm a newbie who is trying to figure out which founds to pick to start investing and i came across SPDR MSCI World UCITS and then found this thread. Would you guys invest on SPDR MSCI World UCITS over iShares Core MSCI World UCITS? What are the risks involved since it is such a new found and the AUM is much lower?

Thank you

Topic Author
imperia
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by imperia » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:54 am

IWDA will have better bid/ask spread, and maybe will little better track the index(for now)

SWRD is just 4 months old, and I belive for some time would be better option.

If you invest for 20+ years go with SWRD.

glorat
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by glorat » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:36 am

Weird. This new State Street SWRD is on paper an excellent choice. Same as IWDA but lower expenses. The only concrete criticism one can offer is that there may be some tracking error with its lower AUM (its results differ from IWDA for example)

But what is weird is that daily volume continues to be a fraction of what iShares IWDA is getting. See https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exc ... 4IEUSDEUET

I wonder if the market knows something we don't.

megatron1911
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by megatron1911 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:48 am

trinca92 wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:29 am
Hi everyone!

I'm a newbie who is trying to figure out which founds to pick to start investing and i came across SPDR MSCI World UCITS and then found this thread. Would you guys invest on SPDR MSCI World UCITS over iShares Core MSCI World UCITS? What are the risks involved since it is such a new found and the AUM is much lower?

Thank you
Also consider that SWRD does not engage in securites lending, while the other competitors do. I don't say this is a make-or-break criterion, but it is a difference still.

me81
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by me81 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:56 pm

glorat wrote:
Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:36 am
Weird. This new State Street SWRD is on paper an excellent choice. Same as IWDA but lower expenses. The only concrete criticism one can offer is that there may be some tracking error with its lower AUM (its results differ from IWDA for example)

But what is weird is that daily volume continues to be a fraction of what iShares IWDA is getting. See https://www.londonstockexchange.com/exc ... 4IEUSDEUET

I wonder if the market knows something we don't.
Trying to buy SWRD through IB is indeed almost impossible.. Trade volume for SWRD is truly a mistery..

megatron1911
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by megatron1911 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:04 am

me81 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:56 pm
Trying to buy SWRD through IB is indeed almost impossible.. Trade volume for SWRD is truly a mistery..
While Trading volume sure seems to be obnoxious on all exchanges, at least the Xetra order book looks pretty ok and should be able to serve any kind of order for a reasonable spread, even though spread is 2-3bps while IWDAs is 1-2, which makes it more than 3 times larger given that SWRD quotes at 19 and IWDA at 52.. Mind the 8bps/year advantage of SWRD over IWDA (for now..)

Are you using SMART Routing?

Image

me81
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Re: New listed ETF

Post by me81 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:22 am

megatron1911 wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:04 am
me81 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:56 pm
Trying to buy SWRD through IB is indeed almost impossible.. Trade volume for SWRD is truly a mistery..
While Trading volume sure seems to be obnoxious on all exchanges, at least the Xetra order book looks pretty ok and should be able to serve any kind of order for a reasonable spread, even though spread is 2-3bps while IWDAs is 1-2, which makes it more than 3 times larger given that SWRD quotes at 19 and IWDA at 52.. Mind the 8bps/year advantage of SWRD over IWDA (for now..)

Are you using SMART Routing?

Image
Hi megatron,

Thanks for the data. My experience was of a couple of months ago, using Smart Routing. It was more a play than anything and I did not really care investigating.. It seems it has in fact got better..

Still not convinced that the 8pbs/yr justify switching, having a reasonable size position in IWDA.
Also not really interested in buying SWRD from now on just for that and adding one ETFs to the portfolio (ok, this last sounds quite stupid as I write it, but I'm human with all my biases and nonsenses.. :D )

Cheers

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Re: New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by bogle_man » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:46 am

Looking at the portfolio according to Mornignstar US, the funds has about 8-9% cash. Not saying that is a deal breaker, but it is different than VWRD, SWDA, and the index

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Re: New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by oogZoo » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:45 pm

bogle_man wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:46 am
Looking at the portfolio according to Mornignstar US, the funds has about 8-9% cash. Not saying that is a deal breaker, but it is different than VWRD, SWDA, and the index
This does not seem to be right. Morningstar often has incorrect information. You should always double check any numbers you get from Morningstar. You can find the fund's assets at SSGA web site.

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Re: New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by lexasvetlyi » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:06 am

What is the tax rate for non-US stocks in SWRD? I know that tax rate from US-stocks is 15% for Irish etf, but idk how it works with non-US stocks. Founded information that is 0% tax rate, but it sounds so fabulous to be true.

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Re: New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by BeBH65 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:16 am

For the US assets oNed by Irish funds there is indeed a 15% dividend withholding tax.
For other countries it depends an the tax treaties between that country and Ireland.

The year reports of every fund typically mention the "foreign tax" paid. I think I have seen numbers like 12% mentioned.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

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Re: New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by lexasvetlyi » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:49 pm

but if this etf is accumulating then dividends pays w/o tax?
This pic says so for non-US stocks: https://imgur.com/Cp6ALNY

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Re: New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by TedSwippet » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:07 pm

lexasvetlyi wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:49 pm
but if this etf is accumulating then dividends pays w/o tax?
This pic says so for non-US stocks: https://imgur.com/Cp6ALNY
As the creator of that picture ... it does not say that. Or at least, it does not intend to.

The dotted lines to 'Non-US Fiscs' are meant to indicate that countries besides the US may have their own withholding taxes, it is just that they are hard to identify and put a single number on. Whereas it is easy to put a number on the US tax withholding that flows to the US Treasury -- it is 30% broker withholding for US domiciled ETFs (or lower if treaty), and 15% internally within the ETF for Ireland domiciled ones.

Also, this image is from the general ETF page, and has nothing in particular to do with the difference between accumulating and distributing ETFs; that is an entirely separate issue. Accumulating ETFs will be Ireland domiciled, and will have identical internal tax withholding to equivalent Ireland domiciled distributing ones. Nothing to choose between them on that measure. Any investor gain from the difference between accumulating and distributing ETFs will come from the investor's home country tax laws.

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Re: New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by TedSwippet » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:25 am

lexasvetlyi wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:06 am
What is the tax rate for non-US stocks in SWRD? I know that tax rate from US-stocks is 15% for Irish etf, but idk how it works with non-US stocks. Founded information that is 0% tax rate, but it sounds so fabulous to be true.
It will not be 0%. Some -- although not all -- countries also tax dividends paid to 'foreign' (to them) investors and funds. The interesting question though is, if it is not 0%, what is it?

This is much trickier to uncover than the known 15% on US source dividends, but using numbers from the iShares ETFs annual report, it is possible to come up with an estimate. The Income Statement and Balance Sheet in the 2018 report show the following numbers for the MSCI ACWI UCITS ETF:
  • Dividend income 16,636
  • Taxation (2,031)
  • Net assets at year start 520,836
  • Net assets at year end 599,680
Its fund factsheet indicates that it is 63% US stocks. Neither the annual report nor the factsheet seem to break down the dividends received by country, but it is reasonable to assume that it holds US stocks that broadly replicate the S&P500, so using VOO's fund information as a proxy we can plausibly use 1.84% -- VTI's hold all US stocks, and its current yield is 1.77%, so using VOO's 1.84% is probably close.

Over the year, the ETF owned on average net assets of 560258. 63% of this is US stock, so US assets of 352963 rounded. 1.84% of this is 6495 rounded, and 15% US tax on that would be 974. On these numbers then, that gives 16636 - 6495 = 10141 in non-US dividend income, and 2031 - 974 = 1057 in non-US withholding tax. 1057 / 10141 is 10.42% rounded.

So a rough and ready guess for this might be around 10.5%, with an error range of +/- 1.5% allowing for the change in net assets over the period. It is probably reasonable to assume that this number would be the same for VWRD and any other non-US domiciled all-world fund or ETF, since they all hold more or less the same assets in the same proportions.

glorat
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Re: New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by glorat » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:00 am

My own rough estimate for non-US dividend tax was 8% based on the Vanguard FTSE All-World annual report numbers and some simplifying estimates (assuming that VUSD - S&P 500 was a good proxy for US tax costs, assuming 2% dividend yield both US and globally, assuming a 50/50 US/non-US split)

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Re: New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by TedSwippet » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:20 pm

glorat wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:00 am
My own rough estimate for non-US dividend tax was 8% based on the Vanguard FTSE All-World annual report numbers and some simplifying estimates (assuming that VUSD - S&P 500 was a good proxy for US tax costs, assuming 2% dividend yield both US and globally, assuming a 50/50 US/non-US split).
I suppose one more way to estimate this would be to look at the numbers for VXUS, and assume that the tax treaties between countries and Ireland approximately match those between the same countries and the US. This gives what looks like around 8% in non-US tax withheld (though I only skimmed the report, and so might have missed some detail or another).

That said, there's not much we can do with this number. It's not really controllable, since it will be largely the same irrespective of ETF domicile (and perhaps even when holding the assets directly). And we already knew that US domiciled ETFs are highly tax-inefficient relative to non-US domiciled ones for many US nonresident aliens, particularly those in non-treaty countries. All we have gained is a route to a better estimate of exactly how highly tax-inefficient they are.

On ex-US stocks, an ETF-internal tax drag of 8% plus 30% (no treaty) broker US withholding tax on the remaining 92% gives a blended 35.6% total loss of non-US dividends to tax if using a US domiciled ETF. Compare to just 8% for an Ireland domiciled ETF holding the same assets.

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Re: New listed ETF [SWRD - SPDR MSCI World UCITS]

Post by silverex » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:28 pm

Amundi has launched accumulating versions of their ultra low cost "Prime" range, all at 0.05% TER, including "Amundi Prime Global UCITS ETF", which is a rough equivalent of MSCI World/FTSE Developed World ETFs.

https://www.amundietf.co.uk/professiona ... es-1bn-AUM
https://www.amundietf.lu/professional/p ... 2089238203

Although, since they are all domiciled in Luxembourg, I doubt they will offer higher actual returns than the bunch of Ireland-domiciled ETFs with 0.12% TER.

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