Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I am 28 now, I am thinking of doing med school + 3-6 year residency. I am thinking of taking MCAT this year and I will be enrolling next year when I am 29 yo or possibly 30 yo. I kinda hate my job, and feels there is no job satisfaction and I want to do something different...
Income: $135k/year
Cash saving: $330k
401k: $72k
Backdoor roth: $10k
no family, no house, no debt.
Assuming lost income 7 years is ~$1M, at what year I will break even? I think if I only become a family physician, avg around $250k/year this might not be a great idea financially but if I can go into more lucrative specialty $300-500k/year, it might be a good plan?
Income: $135k/year
Cash saving: $330k
401k: $72k
Backdoor roth: $10k
no family, no house, no debt.
Assuming lost income 7 years is ~$1M, at what year I will break even? I think if I only become a family physician, avg around $250k/year this might not be a great idea financially but if I can go into more lucrative specialty $300-500k/year, it might be a good plan?
Last edited by Momus on Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I am a physician. I started medical school at age 21. My advice, don't go through with it unless you actually love medicine. Family medicine does NOT make 250k, more like 125k if you are lucky.
Sure, specialities like anesthesia which I do can be pretty lucrative, but I don't know how long it will last. If you are trying to figure out when you will break even, you won't. Actually in my area now, I see a lost of starting jobs in anesthesia at 250k, so the market isn't what it used to be.
Sure, specialities like anesthesia which I do can be pretty lucrative, but I don't know how long it will last. If you are trying to figure out when you will break even, you won't. Actually in my area now, I see a lost of starting jobs in anesthesia at 250k, so the market isn't what it used to be.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I think it would be somewhat unwise to enter medical school right now. By the time you get out and done with residency, there's no telling what the medical world will look like. One think is for certain, though (at least in my opinion), doctors of all types will make a lot less money in the future than they have in the past. I think specialists will be hit the hardests, but that's just my opinion. It really doesn't matter about politics, because the the delivery and provision of healthcare must change in America due to the runaway costs to consumers and taxpayers.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I agree with the above posters. I have a close friend who is a family physician. His salary the last 3 years has gone from $220K to $200K to $173K this year. It just doesn't look good from a financial aspect. Now, if your goal were to just help people by being a doctor, thats a different story and only you can answer that. But from a financial aspect it probably doesn't make too much sense at this point.
I make a little less then you do, and given what my friend had to go through to become a doctor, I wouldn't trade places with him. He just doesn't seem to be in that great of a position compared to 5 years ago.
I make a little less then you do, and given what my friend had to go through to become a doctor, I wouldn't trade places with him. He just doesn't seem to be in that great of a position compared to 5 years ago.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
If your only desire is to do "something different'. I predict disaster. You will not get past the Selection Committee with that one.
Most Fam Med docs are not even making 125k and prospects are not looking good for more. If finances and boredom are your motivating factors, I suggest you look elsewhere for a fulfilling career.
Most Fam Med docs are not even making 125k and prospects are not looking good for more. If finances and boredom are your motivating factors, I suggest you look elsewhere for a fulfilling career.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Doctors will always be needed.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Chaz |
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
So will Dentists. Just ask the fellow who handled my root canal - $1400 for 1.25 hours worth of work: 0.5 hours of talking and 0.75 hours of "tooling around". Worth every penny and then some.chaz wrote:Doctors will always be needed.
Good luck.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
This is true. If the world as we know it collapses, you'll be able to barter for food, clothing, and shelter in return for providing medical care, assuming there are any meds available. Otherwise, you are set to lose of ton of money from not earning while in school, incur tons of debt, then get paid less than you think, and probably have Big Brother telling you how to practice medicine. By the way, my wife is a family doctor, and she's never earned over $95K per year, but she's been mostly retired now for almost 10 years. She does have a great part-time gig working three mornings a week seeing patients in a clinic, with no night call or weekend work or hospital work.chaz wrote:Doctors will always be needed.
Good luck.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I guess you HAVE to love medicine.125k doesn't seem worth it for all the prep that goes into preparing for the occupation
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Unless you only work 2-3 days a week, I don't see how you get paid so low... You are talking about the bottom of the bell curve. Avg family physician makes $175kzzcooper123 wrote:Most Fam Med docs are not even making 125k and prospects are not looking good for more.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
OP, don't do it. I don't see any real desire and see only financial calculations. Plus, there's no way you are "enrolling" next year if you haven't taken the MCATs yet. You also don't "enroll" into medical school like a community college (no cynicism intended). You apply and you face one hurdle others don't face, which is why so late. You will be exhausted when you get done with all of this at age 40.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
The application for medical school (AMCAS) opens in like two weeks for students interested in starting in the Fall of 2013. Assuming that you haven't been studying for the MCAT, you probably won't be fully prepared for it until late June or July, and then won't get your scores back until a month later. This is already putting you behind the other applicants who turn in their completed application on the first possible day. I don't know how invested in this idea you are, but it takes a lot of time and energy to build an application and April 17th is already pretty late in the game. Not impossible, but just letting you know.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I worked with half a dozen MDs over the last 10 years and at least half of them said they wouldnt do it again. Grass is greener? Think again.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
What is your current career?
As a doctor, you will have very high social prestige.
You will dramatically improve your value in the marriage market.
You will also make a good living.
As a doctor, you will have very high social prestige.
You will dramatically improve your value in the marriage market.
You will also make a good living.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Are you talking about a TV doctor or a real doctor?LearningToSpend wrote:What is your current career?
As a doctor, you will have very high social prestige.
You will dramatically improve your value in the marriage market.
You will also make a good living.
While the moments do summersaults into eternity |
Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Hard to go wrong with a job in the health field. I worked at a hospital for 23 yrs. and never worried about job security. And you don't have to be a physician, there are lots of good paying jobs in the health field. I would also strongly consider what the doc said, since that is the voice of experience speaking.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
From this n=1, that is not at all the case.LearningToSpend wrote:That's not true.zzcooper123 wrote:If your only desire is to do "something different'. I predict disaster. You will not get past the Selection Committee with that one.
.
Most doctors could give a flying fig about helping people.
They are in it for themselves only.
OP is in good company. At least he has other options (current career)
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Was in a similar position as the OP about 4yrs ago, but 2yrs younger and with less than 1/2 the income and savings. After talking to my grandfather(a family practice physician for 50yrs) and the dozens and dozens of doctors I have a professional relationship with, I decided against it. In your current financial situation, you could work another decade and then do whatever the heck you wanted. Unless you are passionate about medicine, sounds like a much better option to me.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Have you considered going the physician assistant or nurse practitioner route? You still get to take care of patients, the training is a lot shorter and easier, the pay is decent, and you don't have the malpractice risks.
Yes. We're just like everyone else, including you. There's nothing special about our profession that spares us from the desire to make a good living for ourselves and our families.LearningToSpend wrote:Most doctors could give a flying fig about helping people.
They are in it for themselves only.
OP is in good company. At least he has other options (current career)
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I may have to gently disagree. The majority of the MDs I work with would do it again (I would personally).don1066 wrote:I worked with half a dozen MDs over the last 10 years and at least half of them said they wouldnt do it again. Grass is greener? Think again.
If you want/need to make more money, I would do something in medicine other than family medicine
You have to really want to be in the field to justify the time commitment and sacrifice
Some people can't imagine doing anything other than being a physician given the unique attributes of the profession.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
That is simply not true. Most physicians want to do the best they can for their patients. Do they also want a good income, etc? Of course.LearningToSpend wrote:That's not true.zzcooper123 wrote:If your only desire is to do "something different'. I predict disaster. You will not get past the Selection Committee with that one.
.
Most doctors could give a flying fig about helping people.
They are in it for themselves only.
OP is in good company. At least he has other options (current career)
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I think doctors have two huge advantages over the rest of us:LearningToSpend wrote:As a doctor, you will have very high social prestige.
You will dramatically improve your value in the marriage market.
You will also make a good living.
1. Doctors know who other good doctors are.
2. Doctors have better knowledge and means for handling their own end-of-life choices.
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Momus -
Another doctor chiming in here. If you are looking for a financial justification for going into medicine at this point, I think you will have a hard time finding it from a physician. Even doctors who are doing well now will admit that they have doubts about keeping it up into the future. Most doctors that I speak to will say they have no regrets becoming a doctor and would do it again (even at age 29), just that they would never advise someone to do it if they have the expectation of becoming rich.
Regarding family medicine in particular - I have no idea how realistic your $175k figure is, but I hope you know what you are talking about. The family medicine doctors that I know make less than this. I am aware of a select few who have made a killing (there is a Red Ferrari in the hospital parking lot with plates reading "famdoc"). However, unless you have a specific plan, for instance if you are expecting to join a family member's lucrative practice, I would double check your numbers.
Also, read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/23/healt ... wanted=all
Another doctor chiming in here. If you are looking for a financial justification for going into medicine at this point, I think you will have a hard time finding it from a physician. Even doctors who are doing well now will admit that they have doubts about keeping it up into the future. Most doctors that I speak to will say they have no regrets becoming a doctor and would do it again (even at age 29), just that they would never advise someone to do it if they have the expectation of becoming rich.
Regarding family medicine in particular - I have no idea how realistic your $175k figure is, but I hope you know what you are talking about. The family medicine doctors that I know make less than this. I am aware of a select few who have made a killing (there is a Red Ferrari in the hospital parking lot with plates reading "famdoc"). However, unless you have a specific plan, for instance if you are expecting to join a family member's lucrative practice, I would double check your numbers.
Also, read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/23/healt ... wanted=all
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
What's your current profession? How did you manage to make/save that much at such an early age?Momus wrote:I am 28 now, I am thinking of doing med school + 3-6 year residency. I am thinking of taking MCAT this year and I will be enrolling next year when I am 29 yo or possibly 30 yo. I kinda hate my job, and feels there is no job satisfaction and I want to do something different...
Income: $135k/year
Cash saving: $330k
401k: $72k
Backdoor roth: $10k
no family, no house, no debt.
Assuming lost income 7 years is ~$1M, at what year I will break even? I think if I only become a family physician, avg around $250k/year this might not be a great idea financially but if I can go into more lucrative specialty $300-500k/year, it might be a good plan?
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
isnt it clear. hes a boglehead and probably has no wife and or kids and has no house as he mentioned. quite easy to save that much if you have control overurself and no wife or kidsNathan Drake wrote:What's your current profession? How did you manage to make/save that much at such an early age?Momus wrote:I am 28 now, I am thinking of doing med school + 3-6 year residency. I am thinking of taking MCAT this year and I will be enrolling next year when I am 29 yo or possibly 30 yo. I kinda hate my job, and feels there is no job satisfaction and I want to do something different...
Income: $135k/year
Cash saving: $330k
401k: $72k
Backdoor roth: $10k
no family, no house, no debt.
Assuming lost income 7 years is ~$1M, at what year I will break even? I think if I only become a family physician, avg around $250k/year this might not be a great idea financially but if I can go into more lucrative specialty $300-500k/year, it might be a good plan?
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
In california? With the high tax rate and cost of living?saied45 wrote:isnt it clear. hes a boglehead and probably has no wife and or kids and has no house as he mentioned. quite easy to save that much if you have control overurself and no wife or kidsNathan Drake wrote:What's your current profession? How did you manage to make/save that much at such an early age?Momus wrote:I am 28 now, I am thinking of doing med school + 3-6 year residency. I am thinking of taking MCAT this year and I will be enrolling next year when I am 29 yo or possibly 30 yo. I kinda hate my job, and feels there is no job satisfaction and I want to do something different...
Income: $135k/year
Cash saving: $330k
401k: $72k
Backdoor roth: $10k
no family, no house, no debt.
Assuming lost income 7 years is ~$1M, at what year I will break even? I think if I only become a family physician, avg around $250k/year this might not be a great idea financially but if I can go into more lucrative specialty $300-500k/year, it might be a good plan?
Even assuming they came out of school without any debt, with their net worth being over 400k, that's saving roughly 70k per year straight out of college. It's possible, I suppose, but you'd have to make well north of six figures right out of school and never purchase anything other than necessities. Don't know many people doing that, just curious what his profession is and why he hates it so much. Would lend some insight into whether or not he'd enjoy a medical profession.
Last edited by Nathan Drake on Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Been a family physician for past 30 years Most I ever made was last year 180K. If you are making 135K now giving up that job for the next 7-10 years your will never come out ahead. (from a financial point of view) But if you really enjoy helping others and making lots of money is not your goal then go for it. The medical field will go thru some radical changes over the next few years and it wont be pretty. Just glad I'm getting ready to get out. I definitely would not start down that road again. Convienced my kids not to do it as well. good luck to you.
Everthing works out in the end. If it doesn't then its not the end.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I think it would be more accurate to say that Doctors know who the BAD doctors are.VictoriaF wrote:I think doctors have two huge advantages over the rest of us:LearningToSpend wrote:As a doctor, you will have very high social prestige.
You will dramatically improve your value in the marriage market.
You will also make a good living.
1. Doctors know who other good doctors are.
2. Doctors have better knowledge and means for handling their own end-of-life choices.
Victoria
And like anything else, half the doctors are below average. Unfortunately (fortunately?), most patients can't tell.
Cordially, Jeri . . . 100% all natural asset allocation. (no supernatural methods used)
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
What if he had a wife that earned 3x as much as he did?saied45 wrote:isnt it clear. hes a boglehead and probably has no wife and or kids and has no house as he mentioned. quite easy to save that much if you have control overurself and no wife or kidsNathan Drake wrote:What's your current profession? How did you manage to make/save that much at such an early age?Momus wrote:I am 28 now, I am thinking of doing med school + 3-6 year residency. I am thinking of taking MCAT this year and I will be enrolling next year when I am 29 yo or possibly 30 yo. I kinda hate my job, and feels there is no job satisfaction and I want to do something different...
Income: $135k/year
Cash saving: $330k
401k: $72k
Backdoor roth: $10k
no family, no house, no debt.
Assuming lost income 7 years is ~$1M, at what year I will break even? I think if I only become a family physician, avg around $250k/year this might not be a great idea financially but if I can go into more lucrative specialty $300-500k/year, it might be a good plan?
Cordially, Jeri . . . 100% all natural asset allocation. (no supernatural methods used)
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Just to point out that there is nothing that requires half of any data set to be above or below average (if average = mean). If the data set has significant variation well more than half of the data set can be above or below average. For example if you have 10 people, one of whom earns $100,000 and nine of whom earn $10,000, the average income is $19,000 and 90% of the individuals in the data set have below average income. Real math majors can probably explain this better than me.Jerilynn wrote:
And like anything else, half the doctors are below average. Unfortunately (fortunately?), most patients can't tell.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
From a job satisfaction standpoint med school/residency can be rewarding/exciting, but one cannot expect too much from the next 7-10 years of because of the long hours, little autonomy, stress/competition.
From a financial standpoint, LOTS OF UNCERTAINTY about how things will look in 10 years. While there will likely always be a demand for physicians, geography and specialty matter so some compromise/sacrifice could be required.
From a financial standpoint, LOTS OF UNCERTAINTY about how things will look in 10 years. While there will likely always be a demand for physicians, geography and specialty matter so some compromise/sacrifice could be required.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I once had a consultation with a surgeon who wanted to perform a procedure on me. When I asked about his qualfications, he showed me is Diplomate of Surgery certificate, an MD certificate and then told me he performed said procedure 4 times in his career. Upon further questioning about his training, he told me he learned the procedure from watching a video of it performed by a surgeon who did it over 1,000 times. Needless to say, I practically ran out of there.Jerilynn wrote:I think it would be more accurate to say that Doctors know who the BAD doctors are.VictoriaF wrote:I think doctors have two huge advantages over the rest of us:LearningToSpend wrote:As a doctor, you will have very high social prestige.
You will dramatically improve your value in the marriage market.
You will also make a good living.
1. Doctors know who other good doctors are.
2. Doctors have better knowledge and means for handling their own end-of-life choices.
Victoria
And like anything else, half the doctors are below average. Unfortunately (fortunately?), most patients can't tell.
Maybe it's a Boglehead like trait, but I like to ask questions and keep asking them until I get all the information needed to make a rational decision.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Please stick to the questions raised in the initial post.
I have had to remove several posts from this thread. If you see someone trolling or otherwise violating forum policies, please click the report button. Do not respond on thread, your responses will be removed along with the original post.
I have had to remove several posts from this thread. If you see someone trolling or otherwise violating forum policies, please click the report button. Do not respond on thread, your responses will be removed along with the original post.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
For the OP, if you have spent time on here you will see many polarizing views on physicians making money on this website so, don't be scared off by the strong views by many on here.
My advice is the same as it would be if you were looking at any job choice. Finances is a major consideration, but only AFTER you have decided you actually like the field. Medicine is an unusual field because it requires a long period of delayed gratification (personally and financially). You have 4 yrs. med school+ 2-7 years residency+ 1-3 years to partnership (if ever). That is about the time medicine is fun. By that time you have developed your "style" of practice and have started to form long term bonds with your patients. Also, the time when money starts flowing.
The point is don't do it unless you really want to help people and practice medicine.
Good luck.
My advice is the same as it would be if you were looking at any job choice. Finances is a major consideration, but only AFTER you have decided you actually like the field. Medicine is an unusual field because it requires a long period of delayed gratification (personally and financially). You have 4 yrs. med school+ 2-7 years residency+ 1-3 years to partnership (if ever). That is about the time medicine is fun. By that time you have developed your "style" of practice and have started to form long term bonds with your patients. Also, the time when money starts flowing.
The point is don't do it unless you really want to help people and practice medicine.
Good luck.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Sure, it's doable. I went to med school at 28.
Economically, it's probably a wash. Median income for primary care internal medicine or family practice is $150-180K, depending on where you practice. So even in a low paying specialty, you'll probably make up the $1M in lost income and $120-300K in tuition over a 25-30 year career. Obviously if you go into a higher paying specialty, you'll probably come out ahead. Even with the decrease in physician pay that I expect to come, doctors are not going to starve.
The question really is why do you want to go into medicine? Hating your present job isn't a good reason. While my back doesn't hurt after a day at work as a doctor, there certainly are less stressful (= difficult patients/families, Medicare), less risky (= lawsuits) and easier (= long work hours) ways to make a decent living.
Economically, it's probably a wash. Median income for primary care internal medicine or family practice is $150-180K, depending on where you practice. So even in a low paying specialty, you'll probably make up the $1M in lost income and $120-300K in tuition over a 25-30 year career. Obviously if you go into a higher paying specialty, you'll probably come out ahead. Even with the decrease in physician pay that I expect to come, doctors are not going to starve.
The question really is why do you want to go into medicine? Hating your present job isn't a good reason. While my back doesn't hurt after a day at work as a doctor, there certainly are less stressful (= difficult patients/families, Medicare), less risky (= lawsuits) and easier (= long work hours) ways to make a decent living.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Physician Assistant could be an option.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I work as a pharmacist. I'd like to think I live below my means. That's why I am able to save as much as I did. I started working at 24 yo, and I was lucky that my parents paid for my education, so I have no student loan debt. I just wish I choose medicine FIRST instead wondering what it would be like if I had and wanting to switch career now. I mean not a lot of people want to switch career once they are a doctor, but many want to be one when they are not. Many posters here raised a valid point that I may or may not love to be a doctor (another +8 years training) even if it will make sense financially over 25 years. I do think that I am someone who is not easily satisfied with a lot of things and want to always do something more...
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Maybe not now, but in 10-15 years that may change radically. I would assume that the main reason docs don't want to switch careers at this point in time, is because they can't find another job that will generate the same income without a bunch of additional training.Momus wrote: I mean not a lot of people want to switch career once they are a doctor
Cordially, Jeri . . . 100% all natural asset allocation. (no supernatural methods used)
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Quit CVS/Walgreens and apply for a PGY-1 residency. Find a hospital career. Move out of California if you have to to find a non-retail pharmacy job.Momus wrote:I work as a pharmacist. I'd like to think I live below my means. That's why I am able to save as much as I did. I started working at 24 yo, and I was lucky that my parents paid for my education, so I have no student loan debt. I just wish I choose medicine FIRST instead wondering what it would be like if I had and wanting to switch career now. I mean not a lot of people want to switch career once they are a doctor, but many want to be one when they are not. Many posters here raised a valid point that I may or may not love to be a doctor (another +8 years training) even if it will make sense financially over 25 years. I do think that I am someone who is not easily satisfied with a lot of things and want to always do something more...
You do not need to change career paths to have a rewarding career in this profession.
Ps: I am a pharmacist
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Why not take that ambition and be your own boss and start your own business?Momus wrote:I work as a pharmacist. I'd like to think I live below my means. That's why I am able to save as much as I did. I started working at 24 yo, and I was lucky that my parents paid for my education, so I have no student loan debt. I just wish I choose medicine FIRST instead wondering what it would be like if I had and wanting to switch career now. I mean not a lot of people want to switch career once they are a doctor, but many want to be one when they are not. Many posters here raised a valid point that I may or may not love to be a doctor (another +8 years training) even if it will make sense financially over 25 years. I do think that I am someone who is not easily satisfied with a lot of things and want to always do something more...
P.S. I was very close to considering the medical route with the interest of radiology. I have a GI specialist, Pathologist, and Neurosurgeon in my family who all had concerns on what the future of being an M.D. Might look like. I kept my options open and have ended up in power generation and now looking at the financial comparison I likely will come out ahead instead of going into medicine (as a 6 figure person like you I will gross over 1 Mil by the time I would have been done with residency and fellowship). I have considered going to med school as a backup plan, however I don't loath my job and really enjoy the challenges. Might I suggest trying to really put a lot of energy into being positive about your job and you will be surprised how much that will make a difference.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
1) It's a lot harder to switch after racking up $200K in medical school debt (plus whatever undergrad debt)Momus wrote: I mean not a lot of people want to switch career once they are a doctor
2) Many doctors DO switch - they work for drug companies, as consultants to lawyers, as reviewers for health insurance companies, or to something entirely not related to healthcare.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
My relative who is a Pathologist is now in charge of the a program to help with Medicade coding and to help flag potential fraud (his own business which received the government contract). Why not try and go into the R&D side? I spent a summer working with Nuclear Pharmacists developing target specific chelators which we would insert radioisotope for nuclear imaging... It was fun!DTSC wrote:1) It's a lot harder to switch after racking up $200K in medical school debt (plus whatever undergrad debt)Momus wrote: I mean not a lot of people want to switch career once they are a doctor
2) Many doctors DO switch - they work for drug companies, as consultants to lawyers, as reviewers for health insurance companies, or to something entirely not related to healthcare.
I would try and be more optimistic and start using your skills and out of the box thinking to do something you will enjoy.
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Help me understand what you're saying, Momus - from someone in a similar age bracket, even without student loans I can't fathom how you came up with 400+ in savings at such a young age.Momus wrote:I work as a pharmacist. I'd like to think I live below my means. That's why I am able to save as much as I did. I started working at 24 yo, and I was lucky that my parents paid for my education, so I have no student loan debt. I just wish I choose medicine FIRST instead wondering what it would be like if I had and wanting to switch career now. I mean not a lot of people want to switch career once they are a doctor, but many want to be one when they are not. Many posters here raised a valid point that I may or may not love to be a doctor (another +8 years training) even if it will make sense financially over 25 years. I do think that I am someone who is not easily satisfied with a lot of things and want to always do something more...
I'll conservatively say you've been making 135 large the entire time you've been working, soooo let's say 4.5 years (since you were 24 up until now). That puts you in the ballpark of 600+/- gross. The net on that (conservatively) would be around 400-450 or so... yet you've saved 400+ (!?).
I'm not hating, either - well done. If you don't mind my asking, did you get an inheritance or something in there, too? I "live below my means", too, but I'm not able to save upwards of 90% of salary. Thanks for the explanation -
Also, I second (third?) what everyone else has said. From a financial standpoint, pharmacist into physician is a non-starter with your specifics. If you are dying to get into medicine and patient care, though, the idea might be feasible, but you don't seem to *WANT* it bad enough. Clearly you have the brains to get into med school if that's your thing, but that's the zillion dollar question... *IS* that your thing?
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Pharmacy to MD was discussed extensively in this thread: http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... =2&t=91276
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Hmmm... There was another unhappy frugal pharmacist posting here about 1 month ago. Is pharmacy really that bad? How bad could your job be that you can't work another 10 years? If it was fun it'd be call "play" not "work".
My recommendation: work another 10 years at your job. You'll be a 39 year old with $1.2M even with very conservative investment. You can then semi-retire and do whatever you want.
My recommendation: work another 10 years at your job. You'll be a 39 year old with $1.2M even with very conservative investment. You can then semi-retire and do whatever you want.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Dental school - 4 years, done.
An md is a lot of time effort. 4 years great cost and effort, then 3 -4 years of making near/less than minimum wage(80 hour minimum might change this)
I would not become an md now. I look around over past 5 years, medicine has become near incomprehensible. Mindless bureaucracy, typing, data entry, mindless protocols, ER as disneyland.
It made sense for a long while, I mean the lack of tort reform was always there, led to cya unnneccesary tests, deformed mediine, but society wanted that. Now it's patient as customer, even more unnecessary tests. It's treat pain, with pt as customer, yields prescription drug epidemic and deaths. It's protocols. It's near nonsensical.
It's hard to actually be a doctor now. To take care of patients, Errr wait, customers, with all the hoards of ignorant bureaucrats who think they have the big picture, enforced by lack of competition, and fed mandates, Cookie cutter approach, no way to correct it.
The people who know the most, the mds, have less and less power, but the same life death responsibility. The decline of medicine standards, patient care, is palpable. Papers are finally coming out now, so hopefully it can be reversed, before the whole system becomes like the DMV or IRS.
If 15 percent of your patients are drug seekers, and admin wants 95 percent satisfaction of its customers.....
That has an effect. Most of this is clinical judgement of the doctor to his PATIENT. The bureaucrat sees a customer and a pt satisfaction dashboard, "captures reality", and thinks they have a medical clue.
There you have the drug epidemic. I get to see the fresh young corpses too.
That's just one example. There is a pervasive decline of care ongoing, mds are literally typing doing clerical work, while patients wait to be seen, or are increasingly seen by PA NPs.....so while I friggin type.... I cannot see treat patients. Kills about 20 percent of my time now. It's brilliant.
You may well hit a sweet spot though, I think a lot of mds, are cutting back, getting out, if market up, I think a lot of mds will retire 5 to 10 years early given the current conditions. Things swing back and forth. I hope the current inanity corrects.
Doctors need more power, not less. Things are more complex, not protocol simple. Not the way things are going though.
It's sad.
Dont do it, would be my advice though, good luck.
An md is a lot of time effort. 4 years great cost and effort, then 3 -4 years of making near/less than minimum wage(80 hour minimum might change this)
I would not become an md now. I look around over past 5 years, medicine has become near incomprehensible. Mindless bureaucracy, typing, data entry, mindless protocols, ER as disneyland.
It made sense for a long while, I mean the lack of tort reform was always there, led to cya unnneccesary tests, deformed mediine, but society wanted that. Now it's patient as customer, even more unnecessary tests. It's treat pain, with pt as customer, yields prescription drug epidemic and deaths. It's protocols. It's near nonsensical.
It's hard to actually be a doctor now. To take care of patients, Errr wait, customers, with all the hoards of ignorant bureaucrats who think they have the big picture, enforced by lack of competition, and fed mandates, Cookie cutter approach, no way to correct it.
The people who know the most, the mds, have less and less power, but the same life death responsibility. The decline of medicine standards, patient care, is palpable. Papers are finally coming out now, so hopefully it can be reversed, before the whole system becomes like the DMV or IRS.
If 15 percent of your patients are drug seekers, and admin wants 95 percent satisfaction of its customers.....
That has an effect. Most of this is clinical judgement of the doctor to his PATIENT. The bureaucrat sees a customer and a pt satisfaction dashboard, "captures reality", and thinks they have a medical clue.
There you have the drug epidemic. I get to see the fresh young corpses too.
That's just one example. There is a pervasive decline of care ongoing, mds are literally typing doing clerical work, while patients wait to be seen, or are increasingly seen by PA NPs.....so while I friggin type.... I cannot see treat patients. Kills about 20 percent of my time now. It's brilliant.
You may well hit a sweet spot though, I think a lot of mds, are cutting back, getting out, if market up, I think a lot of mds will retire 5 to 10 years early given the current conditions. Things swing back and forth. I hope the current inanity corrects.
Doctors need more power, not less. Things are more complex, not protocol simple. Not the way things are going though.
It's sad.
Dont do it, would be my advice though, good luck.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
If you love it, then go for it and good luck. My brother went to medical school at 34 and graduated. He really loves it. Of course, he wishes he made right choice in his 20s.
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
I agree with others that say to just consider using your current degree (and knowledge) and translate into something other than retail pharmacy. i am an MD who works for a drug company, and, yes, although clinicians consider us part of the "evil empire" there are lots of opportunities for PharmDs (especially those with some business/marketing acumen) to thrive as part of conducting clinical trials, interacting with regulatory agencies, project management, clinical pharmacology, and developing new drugs for new indications. Get your CV and career plan together and talk to recruiters who specialize in the pharma/biotech industry and you may be surprised what opportunities are out there (with no need to rack up more debt).Momus wrote:I work as a pharmacist. I'd like to think I live below my means. That's why I am able to save as much as I did. I started working at 24 yo, and I was lucky that my parents paid for my education, so I have no student loan debt. I just wish I choose medicine FIRST instead wondering what it would be like if I had and wanting to switch career now. I mean not a lot of people want to switch career once they are a doctor, but many want to be one when they are not. Many posters here raised a valid point that I may or may not love to be a doctor (another +8 years training) even if it will make sense financially over 25 years. I do think that I am someone who is not easily satisfied with a lot of things and want to always do something more...
Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
Exactly. You have nothing keeping you in California. So search across the country for something you want to do with the knowledge/degree you have. Apply for a PGY-1. Someone will take you, it might be a new residency or whatever, but that's what you'll have to do. You have the luxury of being financially independent, so find your passion. You might have to move to the middle of nowhere for a year or two.pochax wrote:I agree with others that say to just consider using your current degree (and knowledge) and translate into something other than retail pharmacy. i am an MD who works for a drug company, and, yes, although clinicians consider us part of the "evil empire" there are lots of opportunities for PharmDs (especially those with some business/marketing acumen) to thrive as part of conducting clinical trials, interacting with regulatory agencies, project management, clinical pharmacology, and developing new drugs for new indications. Get your CV and career plan together and talk to recruiters who specialize in the pharma/biotech industry and you may be surprised what opportunities are out there (with no need to rack up more debt).Momus wrote:I work as a pharmacist. I'd like to think I live below my means. That's why I am able to save as much as I did. I started working at 24 yo, and I was lucky that my parents paid for my education, so I have no student loan debt. I just wish I choose medicine FIRST instead wondering what it would be like if I had and wanting to switch career now. I mean not a lot of people want to switch career once they are a doctor, but many want to be one when they are not. Many posters here raised a valid point that I may or may not love to be a doctor (another +8 years training) even if it will make sense financially over 25 years. I do think that I am someone who is not easily satisfied with a lot of things and want to always do something more...
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Re: Med school at 29 year old, is this a viable plan?
This is a popular misconception. Many residents work under 80 hours a week. For example, as a radiology resident I do not approach 80 hours. I make $64,000 a year. This is not near/less than minimum wage. I live pretty comfortably and also save for retirement. Many of my med school colleagues work 50-60 hours, in fields such as psychiatry, pathology, dermatology, family medicine, and radiation oncology.LH wrote: 4 years great cost and effort, then 3 -4 years of making near/less than minimum wage(80 hour minimum might change this)
Surgical residents usually work over 80 hours despite the new ACGME requirements.