Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell ... Thank you! Post #1
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Thank you everyone for your insights on this hefty decision. My husband and I have been reading it ... and my son will devour is once he gets home from his track meet.
You are all such an impressive group of people. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Fran
You are all such an impressive group of people. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Fran
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
I'm a Cornell Engineering alum, but I don't have a specific recommendation. You and your son have a difficult decision.
I do have some food for thought, based on my experiences and some practical considerations:
1. Pennsylvania has severely cut funding to its universities the last couple of years. I would try and find how any budget cuts might affect your son. At some state universities, it's become very difficult to graduate within four years as the classes students need to graduate are overbooked. In addition to the extra tuition, the opportunity cost of staying longer may wipe out some of the differences in expenses.
2. Aside from GPA, I'd say the biggest factor in hiring of kids straight out of college is their work experience. So I'd see what kinds of internships and co-op experiences are available to students. Cornell does have a good co-op program for engineers, with companies from around the country hiring. Students work for one semester plus one summer and still graduate within four years. I believe about 1/3 to 1/2 of the engineering class participates.
3. Finally, Cornell offers a one-year Masters of Engineering degree. It's professionally oriented, rather than research-oriented, and I wouldn't equate it to a Masters of Science. However, even a not-very-motivated student can earn enough credits during their senior year to pick up the M.Eng. with an extra semester. (I speak from experience here). A better student could probably earn both their B.S. and M.Eng. within four years.
I do have some food for thought, based on my experiences and some practical considerations:
1. Pennsylvania has severely cut funding to its universities the last couple of years. I would try and find how any budget cuts might affect your son. At some state universities, it's become very difficult to graduate within four years as the classes students need to graduate are overbooked. In addition to the extra tuition, the opportunity cost of staying longer may wipe out some of the differences in expenses.
2. Aside from GPA, I'd say the biggest factor in hiring of kids straight out of college is their work experience. So I'd see what kinds of internships and co-op experiences are available to students. Cornell does have a good co-op program for engineers, with companies from around the country hiring. Students work for one semester plus one summer and still graduate within four years. I believe about 1/3 to 1/2 of the engineering class participates.
3. Finally, Cornell offers a one-year Masters of Engineering degree. It's professionally oriented, rather than research-oriented, and I wouldn't equate it to a Masters of Science. However, even a not-very-motivated student can earn enough credits during their senior year to pick up the M.Eng. with an extra semester. (I speak from experience here). A better student could probably earn both their B.S. and M.Eng. within four years.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
If the Cornell name is super important, you could always do what one of my friends did. He was a National Merit Scholar, multiple awards etc. etc. etc student who chose to attend his local CC in a western state for the first 2 years of undergraduate. He had no problem transferring to Cornell (in engineering) his junior year. He graduated Cornell with no debt (and switched majors to Physics). Got full ride to complete a MS/PhD at UChicago. Completed that in (I believe) 5 years and is now working at another Tier 1 university in military R&D.
If you really want the name brand - you don't always have to pay name brand prices for it. If the name Cornell is super important - you could start at Penn State (or your local CC) and transfer in. Your son is a brilliant young man. He will do well where ever he goes (or starts). And if he is truly interested in post graduate work in the sciences - he won't have to worry about paying for it (probably).
I don't think there is a difference between Penn State Honors college (for engineering) and Cornell. And I did graduate from a Top Tier university, UChicago (thankfully mostly paid for by that university). I would not have paid "Top Tier pricing" for that opportunity. I chose them because they gave the best financial aid offer, not because they were the top school available to me. And while many people are impressed when I tell them where I graduated (with honors), I didn't get any of my jobs (even the one working for Fortune 100 investment bank) due to where I graduated, or contacts made from where I graduated.
Good luck on this decision, it is wonderful to have these choices and I am sure your son will excel no matter what his choice.
If you really want the name brand - you don't always have to pay name brand prices for it. If the name Cornell is super important - you could start at Penn State (or your local CC) and transfer in. Your son is a brilliant young man. He will do well where ever he goes (or starts). And if he is truly interested in post graduate work in the sciences - he won't have to worry about paying for it (probably).
I don't think there is a difference between Penn State Honors college (for engineering) and Cornell. And I did graduate from a Top Tier university, UChicago (thankfully mostly paid for by that university). I would not have paid "Top Tier pricing" for that opportunity. I chose them because they gave the best financial aid offer, not because they were the top school available to me. And while many people are impressed when I tell them where I graduated (with honors), I didn't get any of my jobs (even the one working for Fortune 100 investment bank) due to where I graduated, or contacts made from where I graduated.
Good luck on this decision, it is wonderful to have these choices and I am sure your son will excel no matter what his choice.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Great discussion.
Your son, just like any other dedicated/talented individual, could succeed coming from either PSU or Cornell.
Which school does he prefer?
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I disagree with the prior post comparing higher education with sports cars and luxury homes. There is SOME benefit from attending a more selective school with a good reputation.
http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/t ... istics.asp
While certainly not proof of better results or enjoyment of life, there is a difference between graduating from an elite university vs. a good university. Some of the difference clearly arises from the selectivity itself and the quality of the 'typical' student at the institution, but outside Pennsylvania these schools are not equally regarded.
Your son, just like any other dedicated/talented individual, could succeed coming from either PSU or Cornell.
Which school does he prefer?
---
I disagree with the prior post comparing higher education with sports cars and luxury homes. There is SOME benefit from attending a more selective school with a good reputation.
http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/t ... istics.asp
While certainly not proof of better results or enjoyment of life, there is a difference between graduating from an elite university vs. a good university. Some of the difference clearly arises from the selectivity itself and the quality of the 'typical' student at the institution, but outside Pennsylvania these schools are not equally regarded.
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
This is a very tough decision. From your son's perspective, the idea of graduating with $80K of debt must be worrisome, and it's unfortunate that going to college requires this sort of commitment. There is no guarantee he'd earn his way out of this hole easily. Maybe his starting salary will only be a respectable $50K, in which case the debt burden will feel immense. I believe going into debt to this extent can alter his path, make him more risk averse. I can't imagine many students would join a startup with that sort of debt -- they'd probably look for a stable corporate job, even if less promising.
On the other hand, for many fields, there is a real difference between Cornell and Penn State. If he wants to do financial engineering, for example, Cornell will provide job opportunities that Penn State will not. If he has an interest in academia, such as a physics or math PhD, Cornell would be preferable as well. Graduate and professional schools seem to be less pedigree-conscious than the private sector, so if grad school is likely to follow immediately after college, that may tilt the scales toward Penn State.
If I were in his shoes, I'd pick Cornell.
On the other hand, for many fields, there is a real difference between Cornell and Penn State. If he wants to do financial engineering, for example, Cornell will provide job opportunities that Penn State will not. If he has an interest in academia, such as a physics or math PhD, Cornell would be preferable as well. Graduate and professional schools seem to be less pedigree-conscious than the private sector, so if grad school is likely to follow immediately after college, that may tilt the scales toward Penn State.
If I were in his shoes, I'd pick Cornell.
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
After visiting State College a couple of times I began to suspect that Groundhog day was actually a documentary. That said, I would still choose PSU Honors College over Cornell. $80k in debt for an undergraduate degree is too much.interplanetjanet wrote:The OP sounds familiar with the school and the State College area and I mean no slur by this, but it did not give me the impression of being the most progressive or cosmopolitan institution and area.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
The only other thing to think about is the four year graduation rate. Collegeresults.org says that Cornell has an 86% four year graduation rate and Penn States is 62.3% so the 80,000 might not be accurate. I grew up in PA so I have lots of friends who went to Penn State and very few graduated in 4 years, mainly because they couldn't get into the classes required to graduate, or the programs were just designed to take 5 years like logistics. If the Honors program guarantees a spot in any course, that would be valuable. I seem to remember the program at UVA does that. You can get a great education at Penn State but you need to be more focused because of the sheer size of the institution.
I'm an Ivy alum, not Cornell, but Princeton, and they were rigid about it taking only 4 years. The only people I knew who took 5, took an entire year off to travel or volunteer or some other long term activity.
Your son has some great choices and I am sure he will thrive at either school.
I'm an Ivy alum, not Cornell, but Princeton, and they were rigid about it taking only 4 years. The only people I knew who took 5, took an entire year off to travel or volunteer or some other long term activity.
Your son has some great choices and I am sure he will thrive at either school.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Although I voted for Cornell, I have to defend the Penn State "graduate in 4" rate. The pool of students is very different. Penn State, with the branch campus system, gets a lot of first-generation-to-college kids. Many work full and take semesters off to work. More than a few are marginal students to begin with and "play" with college thru the local branch. Cornell only gets serious students. The original poster's son is obviously a top student who would go to PSU's main campus. There is no reason to believe he would take longer there than at Cornell.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Yet another reason to go to Penn State:
Penn State Tops Recruiter Rankings
Companies Favor Big State Schools With One-Stop Shopping for Graduates With Necessary Skills
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... Collection
Penn State Tops Recruiter Rankings
Companies Favor Big State Schools With One-Stop Shopping for Graduates With Necessary Skills
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... Collection
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Cornell.
There is no contest in lifetime social pedigree.
Do whatever you have to do.
DO NOT BE A MISER
You only get once chance at this.
There is no contest in lifetime social pedigree.
Do whatever you have to do.
DO NOT BE A MISER
You only get once chance at this.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
I am a Penn State Honors College graduate. Lots and lots of my friends and classmates studied engineering there. They all got into the graduate schools they wanted to. Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, Georgia Tech, etc.
An engineering degree from Penn State isn't going to count against anyone.
An engineering degree from Penn State isn't going to count against anyone.
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Have you visited the Schreyers Honor College? You and your son would have the opportunity to talk with other students, both engineering and other majors.
The students on main campus can graduate in the required time and some graduate early by taking extra courses during the summer sessions. You should also visit Cornell and then make the comparison.
The students on main campus can graduate in the required time and some graduate early by taking extra courses during the summer sessions. You should also visit Cornell and then make the comparison.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Don't necessarily agree with everything in your post, but I think this point is a good one. My undergraduate was at a second-tier school, graduate at a top-tier. Though self-motivation was not a problem for me, it would be for some; depends upon the student's underlying makeup. If your child isn't one who will take his/her studies seriously while some of his/her peers are blowing of classes and partying, the more serious academic environment might be beneficial. Not to say that students at the top tier schools won't be partying, but the greater tendency for academic responsibility will likely be present at the Ivy.gasman wrote: 2. Education is more than a ticket to a paycheck. Can you get as good an education at a non name brand school, yes. But plenty of kids (mine) are motivated by their peers and not self motivated types. Being surrounded by more serious, smart, and ambitious types can be a potent motivator.
Retirement investing is a marathon.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
I am a chemical engineer. I went to a large land grant university with a respected chemical engineering program and participated in their honors program. I choose that school over an ivy league school and I have no regrets.kenyan wrote:You may find this discussion to be relevant.
Personally (and I'm a scientist/engineer), I don't feel that Cornell is an elite engineering school, and if that will really be the direction if your child's education I don't think it's worth the extra cost. Great school, yes, but not top-tier for these specific programs.
I think that it would depend on what your son wants to be when he grows up. If he wants to work in industry, Penn State is the no brainer. If he does not want to go to grad school, Penn State would be a no brainer. Penn State's chemical engineering program carries a lot mroe weight than Cornell's.
The only case for an ivy league engineering program would be if the person wants to get into a top tier medical school, or if they want to go into some other field where networking is more important, like finance.
Personally, I look at the folks who came to work in industry with large debts from student loans. I am glad that I did not have to worry about that. I could move directly into saving for retirement and buying a house instead of directing a large part of my income to student loans.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
I had to deal with this decision about 10 years ago. I decided the Cornell route rather than PSU Honors. At the end of the day, as a chemical engineer, PSU is fine. He will get a job, make good money and work with many grads from other schools. The issue arises when he decides he hates engineering and wants to change majors. That is where a Cornell degree will be far and away better than PSU. I ultimately decided Cornell. I started as a chem-e/materials science major and graduated with a finance degree. Looking back on it, i'm very very happy I chose Cornell over PSU.
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Penn state grads are a dime a dozen.
Cornell is the 1%
Why is this even a discussion?
Cornell is the 1%
Why is this even a discussion?
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
1% of what?LearningToSpend wrote: Cornell is the 1%
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
You are comparing apples to oranges. The OP is talking about the honor program at PSU. What are the entrance stats for the honors program? Are they comparable to Cornell? I would think so.LearningToSpend wrote:Penn state grads are a dime a dozen.
Cornell is the 1%
Why is this even a discussion?
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
We are on a financial board, why nobody has asked yet about Loan Terms on these loans?
For example, current unsubsidized rate on Stafford loans is 6.8%.
http://www.staffordloan.com/stafford-lo ... -rates.php
So, $60K at 6.8% is not really "just a $60K".
For example, current unsubsidized rate on Stafford loans is 6.8%.
http://www.staffordloan.com/stafford-lo ... -rates.php
So, $60K at 6.8% is not really "just a $60K".
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
+1hsv_climber wrote:We are on a financial board, why nobody has asked yet about Loan Terms on these loans?
For example, current unsubsidized rate on Stafford loans is 6.8%.
http://www.staffordloan.com/stafford-lo ... -rates.php
So, $60K at 6.8% is not really "just a $60K".
And Stafford loans are capped at $5500 a year, so the rest would be private or parent loans. Again, I doubt those would be at 6.8%...I believe Parent Plus loans are at 7.9% and aren't deferred during school.
Loans terms very important.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Cornell is not the 1% in engineering -- MIT and probably Caltech are the only schools that will cause jaws to drop.LearningToSpend wrote:Penn state grads are a dime a dozen.
Cornell is the 1%
Why is this even a discussion?
Some hiring managers might not even know that Cornell is Ivy League -- especially once you get out of New England/Northeast region or places that hire a lot of Cornell graduates.
Public engineering schools such as Cal, UCLA, Virginia, Illinois, PSU etc. have very good reputations among practicing engineers.
Whether someone goes to #5 or #9 or #12 simply doesn't make a difference in engineering -- but be prepared to show you know your stuff at a job interview.
Engineers who graduated from Cornell might be impressed by a Cornell degree, but the engineers who graduated from highly ranked public universities probably will view it as equivalent to their degree.
If he changes his major to something other than Engineering, the Cornell degree might be a more significant diferentiating factor.
That said, I don't think the Honors College distinction at PSU will have much impact on potential employers either after the first job (or preferably internship/summer job while still in school), After that its all about work experience.
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Great points on the loan terms. Unless he has a co-signer, fixed rate private loans seem likely to be at high interest rates (around 10%) as I don't see most 18 year olds having much of a credit history. Variable rates can be had for much lower it seems, but of course they carry the risk of being adjustable. But it is a good point to know how much that extra $60k in debt would cost the OP's son.kiligi wrote:+1hsv_climber wrote:We are on a financial board, why nobody has asked yet about Loan Terms on these loans?
For example, current unsubsidized rate on Stafford loans is 6.8%.
http://www.staffordloan.com/stafford-lo ... -rates.php
So, $60K at 6.8% is not really "just a $60K".
And Stafford loans are capped at $5500 a year, so the rest would be private or parent loans. Again, I doubt those would be at 6.8%...I believe Parent Plus loans are at 7.9% and aren't deferred during school.
Loans terms very important.
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
If I look at a list of Fortune 100 CEO's who represent the banking/insurance side (Jan 2011), almost without exception, they have degrees from Ivy Schools (I think that has been a constant for quite a while). 15 of our senators come from Harvard, Stanford and Yale. The power of networking, as some have alluded to.LearningToSpend wrote:Penn state grads are a dime a dozen.
Cornell is the 1%
Why is this even a discussion?
I guess it's a matter of making a name (and money) for yourself over doing what's best, not that there's anything wrong with that........ OTOH, society has paid a big price (at least in terms of the management of money) for the "brand"...... Nepotism has better results, at least compared to those two arena's (Now, I'm being a little unfair here, studies have shown company performance of Ivy-led companies match those without Ivy degrees)......
Getting back on topic, when it comes to engineering, Penn State grads are held in good regard compared to Cornell (with differences depending on type of engineering degree obtained). The Penn State honors program is solid, I know a few who have attended. Both school have good engineering programs. I have a B.S. in Chemical Engineering as well. After the hire, work performance will be the big driver in engineering. If the OP's child decides to go to grad school, solid academic performance from either school will keep the doors open.
RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
As a graduate of the Ivy League, I find this incredibly snobish, insulting, and ill-informed.LearningToSpend wrote:Penn state grads are a dime a dozen.
Cornell is the 1%
Why is this even a discussion?
My Ivy League engineering education has never counted one whit as an engineer -- as long as the degree and background is from a reputable, tier one engineering school, there is never a question. Indeed, I find many State School alumni organizations are stronger within engineering than those from smaller programs.
As long as you are being snobish, well, why settle for Cornell? Don't you know that within the academic elite, there are perceived micro differences that are given great import? Harvard, Yale, Princeton tend to come out on the top of the rankings. Cornell tends to be ranked towards the bottom in this very small circle of snobish thinking. I don't support it and am glad that I have escaped it. Outside of a few circles of industry and government that place great import on such perceptions, there is no reason to choose Cornell over PSU honors program.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Go to PSU. Given that there is a shortage of engineers, graduates get a job. After that, performance will be the key to advancement. Having two strong schools to choose from is wonderful and icing on the cake. If your son is also a good communicator, speaks excellent English and writes well, he will be a hot commodity.
Tim
Tim
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Jobs are important but college is about much more than getting a job. Research the best fit. Look at the professors, the caliber of students, and the academics in areas other than your intended trade. I respect PSU greatly, but I'd sacrifice to pay the extra $60,000 for Cornell in a second. (The 1% comment was ridiculous.) Not everyone has the same priorities. Your child is fortunate to have two good choices.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Definitely Apples to Oranges...soccerdad12 wrote:You are comparing apples to oranges. The OP is talking about the honor program at PSU. What are the entrance stats for the honors program? Are they comparable to Cornell? I would think so.LearningToSpend wrote:Penn state grads are a dime a dozen.
Cornell is the 1%
Why is this even a discussion?
Schreyer Honors College admission requirements are only trailing Harvard and Princeton....
The average SAT score of the incoming class of 2009 was 2075 although SAT scores are only used in the admission process to University Park, and not the Schreyer Honors College. The average high school GPA was 4.00 and the middle 50% ranged between 3.98 and 4.33. The middle 50% of SAT scores ranged from 1980–2170. Their 2007 ACT mid 50% is 31-33 composite score.[5] In 2005, the middle 50% of SAT scores for incoming honors students placed the College among all the Ivy Leagues, trailing only Harvard and Princeton.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
I'll add a couple of additional points to my earlier post.
-As other posters have commented, I don't think there's a bad choice to be made in this selection (defining "bad" as something that he will regret down the road). That doesn't mean that the choice is unimportant, or that the choice of school will have no effect on his life or career. Just that there are two good, but different, choices. A lot of the differences have been pointed out in this thread.
-Ultimately, choosing a college is a personal decision. It's as much about finding an environment that's conducive to a particular person's personality as it is about the academics. I tend to think the snob appeal aspect is overrated particularly in technical fields (or maybe I just missed the boat in making and exploiting the right connections in college and grad school ). But that said, it can be quite inspiring (and sometimes humbling) to find yourself surrounded by so many smart, motivated people. Realizing you're not the smartest person in the class takes some getting used to--but it also can motivate you to try harder.
In some ways the choice is like an engineering problem: you need to decide which criteria are important, and then evaluate how well the different options fulfill those criteria. In any event, in my experience, the people who have the most successful college experiences are the people who have a clear idea of why they are there and what they hope to accomplish--but while leaving themselves open to new experiences and new possbilities. The OPs sone will be well served by thinking carefully about what he hopes to get out of college, whichever choice he makes.
-As other posters have commented, I don't think there's a bad choice to be made in this selection (defining "bad" as something that he will regret down the road). That doesn't mean that the choice is unimportant, or that the choice of school will have no effect on his life or career. Just that there are two good, but different, choices. A lot of the differences have been pointed out in this thread.
-Ultimately, choosing a college is a personal decision. It's as much about finding an environment that's conducive to a particular person's personality as it is about the academics. I tend to think the snob appeal aspect is overrated particularly in technical fields (or maybe I just missed the boat in making and exploiting the right connections in college and grad school ). But that said, it can be quite inspiring (and sometimes humbling) to find yourself surrounded by so many smart, motivated people. Realizing you're not the smartest person in the class takes some getting used to--but it also can motivate you to try harder.
In some ways the choice is like an engineering problem: you need to decide which criteria are important, and then evaluate how well the different options fulfill those criteria. In any event, in my experience, the people who have the most successful college experiences are the people who have a clear idea of why they are there and what they hope to accomplish--but while leaving themselves open to new experiences and new possbilities. The OPs sone will be well served by thinking carefully about what he hopes to get out of college, whichever choice he makes.
Last edited by baw703916 on Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Uh oh. Were you there some time in the past decade? Based on your post I guess you were in the same department that I was (as an undergrad). Perhaps you could have even been my TA!baw703916 wrote:Since the voting on this thread seems to be about 10:1 in favor of PSU, I feel compelled to put in a good word for Cornell. I got a PhD there from the Engineering school (although I don't really consider myself an engineer) and was very impressed by the undergraduates for whom I was a TA.
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Going to Cornell over Penn St. has nothing to do with job prospects.
Sure, go to PSU if you're simply looking to get creds for some job.
Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
Sure, go to PSU if you're simply looking to get creds for some job.
Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Actually, I'm a bit older than that (but thanks for the compliment!).Jacotus wrote:Uh oh. Were you there some time in the past decade? Based on your post I guess you were in the same department that I was (as an undergrad). Perhaps you could have even been my TA!baw703916 wrote:Since the voting on this thread seems to be about 10:1 in favor of PSU, I feel compelled to put in a good word for Cornell. I got a PhD there from the Engineering school (although I don't really consider myself an engineer) and was very impressed by the undergraduates for whom I was a TA.
Most of my posts assume no behavioral errors.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Both are great schools but PSU Honors College seems like the better choice. Cornell is not nearly as well regarded as the more elite Ivys like Harvard or Yale. I served as dean of admissions at a northeast medical school for several years and applicants from Penn State with comparable academic standing, etc might actually have been considered slightly stronger applicants than those from a lower Ivy like Cornell. Of course there are so many variables in the med sch application process it's difficult to draw accurate comparisons.
A friends daughter was in the honors program at Penn St several years ago and has done very well. Had her pick of both undergrad and grad courses at PS.
A friends daughter was in the honors program at Penn St several years ago and has done very well. Had her pick of both undergrad and grad courses at PS.
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Speaking as someone who chose an out-of-state public school rather than attend Penn State, I'd recommend Penn State in this case.
1) The Honors program is top notch
2) $60K + interest is a lot of money
3) No one will look down on the PSU engineering degree
4) A lot of sciences + engineering students jump in the gorges in Ithaca
My caveats are:
1) Will your son feel like going to PSU is just a continuation of high school? Close to 20% of my high school attends PSU, and that was the biggest factor in my choice of "highly-regarded, out-of-state, top 25 public university". If you son needs a change of pace to grow as a person, Cornell might be a better choice.
2) Will you son resent not going to the Ivy League school? I also turned down a non-Princeton/Harvard/Yale Ivy and have not regretted it. However, you only get to through this part of life once and he's going to have close to 60 more years of life expectancy left when he graduates from either school. If he feels like he's going to regret not going to Cornell, then by all means go to Cornell -- at least we're only talking about $80K out of pocket to attend an Ivy (my expected family contribution time 4 over a decade ago was a lot more than that).
1) The Honors program is top notch
2) $60K + interest is a lot of money
3) No one will look down on the PSU engineering degree
4) A lot of sciences + engineering students jump in the gorges in Ithaca
My caveats are:
1) Will your son feel like going to PSU is just a continuation of high school? Close to 20% of my high school attends PSU, and that was the biggest factor in my choice of "highly-regarded, out-of-state, top 25 public university". If you son needs a change of pace to grow as a person, Cornell might be a better choice.
2) Will you son resent not going to the Ivy League school? I also turned down a non-Princeton/Harvard/Yale Ivy and have not regretted it. However, you only get to through this part of life once and he's going to have close to 60 more years of life expectancy left when he graduates from either school. If he feels like he's going to regret not going to Cornell, then by all means go to Cornell -- at least we're only talking about $80K out of pocket to attend an Ivy (my expected family contribution time 4 over a decade ago was a lot more than that).
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
For undergrad, it really doesn't matter where you go. Grad school is a whole different story.
+1 for PSU!
+1 for PSU!
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Here is a very applicable article that deals with the costs we are talking about. Hope this gives the OP more information to help make this decision. $1K a month in loan repayments for 10 years seems like a huge commitment for an ivy.
http://www.thecollegesolution.com/shoul ... university
http://www.thecollegesolution.com/shoul ... university
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Yeah but your grad school prospects are much better with an Ivy base vs an alcohol/football base.Dealmaster00 wrote:For undergrad, it really doesn't matter where you go. Grad school is a whole different story.
+1 for PSU!
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
This is true only from a very narrow perspective. College is about much more than future employment. Choice of the right college (not necessarily the one rated highest by USN&WW) is an extremely important decision.Dealmaster00 wrote:For undergrad, it really doesn't matter where you go.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Exactly. He's buying the name.SpecialK22 wrote:This is all anecdotal, but I can say many of my co-workers with higher student loan debts are weighed down heavily by it emotionally. $80k is quite a bit of debt for someone to enter the workforce with, and then consider that he may also have to finance further education on down the road. Keep in mind also that he will most certainly be working with others holding less student loan debt but making about the same salary. Conversely, there will probably be those in six-figure debt land so he probably won't be the worst off either. It isn't the end of the world to have 80k in debt from a reputed college in a practical degree, but debt often limits options for the future. Determining whether or not the degree from Cornell will pay off in higher future earnings is an unknown, so I see Cornell as the riskier choice than Penn St.
Leesbro63 wrote:It will be $125k for PSU versus double for Cornell. Over his lifetime he'll more than earn the difference and have better contacts from Cornell. Plus his grad school, if ever, opportunities will be better. More importantly the culture of studying will be MUCH better at Cornell (I went to Penn State). There are way less valuable things you can whiz the $125K extra on. If the kid actually got into a real ivy (Cornell), DO NOT pass up that true opportunity
I often wonder how some co-workers ended up with over $200k in student loan debt for an undergrad degree, and I think your post sums up one of the reasons perfectly.
I'd do a distance degree with the London School of Economics. I believe the fees total $10k, though not sure of that.
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
+1.Dave76 wrote: I'd do a distance degree with the London School of Economics. I believe the fees total $10k, though not sure of that.
I think "Chemical Engineering" degree from the "London School of Economics" will look really cool on the resume. I think it will guarantee to get an invitation for the interview in order to get some entertainment for the hiring manager.
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
[rude comment deleted by admin alex]
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Other schools at the University of London offer engineering degrees.hsv_climber wrote:+1.Dave76 wrote: I'd do a distance degree with the London School of Economics. I believe the fees total $10k, though not sure of that.
I think "Chemical Engineering" degree from the "London School of Economics" will look really cool on the resume. I think it will guarantee to get an invitation for the interview in order to get some entertainment for the hiring manager.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
It's the same with the Ivy schools. A University of Chicago graduate told me that the Immaculate Conception is the same thing as the Virgin Birth.LearningToSpend wrote:Cornell = World class (literally) student body
PSU = Mostly people from Pennsylvania who are going to 13th grade
- Random Musings
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
The PSU honor program must have some merit - universities such as Cornell, Harvard, MIT, CIT and so on accepts some of them in their grad schools. Perhaps the research/thesis portion of their program has a touch of merit.
Well, perhaps in the case with that university up in Ithica, I'm sure it was nuttin' but a "evil" computer error.
RM
Well, perhaps in the case with that university up in Ithica, I'm sure it was nuttin' but a "evil" computer error.
RM
I figure the odds be fifty-fifty I just might have something to say. FZ
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
I am stunned that this thread is nearing 100 posts and nobody has mentioned Andy Bernard, Cornell graduate.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
I chose the Ivy route (but my parents had the funds to cover the cost). In this case, I'd go Penn State. Don't think you can lose either way.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Penn State. The last thing I want my kids to start their lives with is a lot of debt. And, Penn State is a good school (but it's no Ohio State, mind you ).
- Dan-in-Virginia
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Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
I went through the honors college of my university. Very nice. It was a higher caliber school within a school. The best professors, small classes, and more challenging courses. I was heavy into AP in high school (back when AP was AP) so it was a continuation of the same for me. No large 200 seat lecture hall courses.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
I graduated with an aerospace engineering degree from Penn State several years ago. My senior year, I looked at both graduate school opportunities and getting a "real job." I could've done either. With my PSU undergrad degree, I got into Michigan, Purdue, PSU, Cornell, UT-Austin (best graduate school in the world for my specialization [astrodynamics]), and Colorado-Boulder (2nd best)'s graduate programs with offers for research fellowships or research assistant positions at each. Those are all top-10 graduate programs for aerospace, and as I mentioned, UT-Austin and Colorado-Boulder are the best in the world for an astrodynamics specialty. I also got job offers from a half dozen major corporations, with my lowest starting salary offer being $51K and the highest being $62K (I had done no internships or co-ops, either). I ended up taking a job at Goddard Space Flight Center as a contractor for a Fortune 100 company. Keep in mind, I didn't bother with the Honors College - just plain ol' regular undergrad work.
Having a Penn State engineering degree will not "hurt" your son in any way, shape, or form. PSU's engineering college is one of the best in the country, and is every bit as good as Cornell's at both the undergrad and graduate levels. My wife almost went to Cornell for her undergrad and ended up also going to PSU; she has no regrets about her decision. She is also an aerospace engineer, got into all the same grad schools (including Cornell, as mentioned) as I did, and is now also a NASA contractor. PSU is also probably the most heavily recruited college in the country, as highlighted in the WSJ someone posted earlier - the annual student career fair is the largest in the nation by far, and many companies reserve entry-level positions exclusively for PSU students that they fill via applications and interviews to and through the school career center (this is how I got several of my job offers). The College of Engineering department can also get you a co-op in pretty much any engineering industry if you request one and are a decent student, which will generally lead to a guaranteed job offer after graduation.
LearningToSpend and Leesbro are talking out of their asses, to be crass, but there's really not a better way to put it. Leesbro seems to have regrets about his own college days at PSU decades ago (I won't deny the party atmosphere, but it's more "Work hard\play hard" than Animal House - unless you're a plebeian Liberal Arts major ) , and I'm really not sure where LTS is getting off making the comments he is at all.
Having a Penn State engineering degree will not "hurt" your son in any way, shape, or form. PSU's engineering college is one of the best in the country, and is every bit as good as Cornell's at both the undergrad and graduate levels. My wife almost went to Cornell for her undergrad and ended up also going to PSU; she has no regrets about her decision. She is also an aerospace engineer, got into all the same grad schools (including Cornell, as mentioned) as I did, and is now also a NASA contractor. PSU is also probably the most heavily recruited college in the country, as highlighted in the WSJ someone posted earlier - the annual student career fair is the largest in the nation by far, and many companies reserve entry-level positions exclusively for PSU students that they fill via applications and interviews to and through the school career center (this is how I got several of my job offers). The College of Engineering department can also get you a co-op in pretty much any engineering industry if you request one and are a decent student, which will generally lead to a guaranteed job offer after graduation.
LearningToSpend and Leesbro are talking out of their asses, to be crass, but there's really not a better way to put it. Leesbro seems to have regrets about his own college days at PSU decades ago (I won't deny the party atmosphere, but it's more "Work hard\play hard" than Animal House - unless you're a plebeian Liberal Arts major ) , and I'm really not sure where LTS is getting off making the comments he is at all.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
I was about to defend my honor, sir, but I do have to agree that the Penn State of 1977 was way less, academically, than the PSU of 2012. You make a good point.
Re: Penn State Honors College Vs. Cornell
Clearly the Penn State engineering supporters have made an outstanding case for their school. Cannot argue with the overwhelming evidence that it is a great program.
One point an earlier post brought up that I wanted to echo was the fact that many (as much as 40%) of students planning to study engineering end up switching majors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/educa ... wanted=all
My brother studied engineering at Columbia, graduated, worked in industry, wanted a change, and transitioned into a career on wall street . That particular opportunity to change was aided somewhat by the ivy name.
One point an earlier post brought up that I wanted to echo was the fact that many (as much as 40%) of students planning to study engineering end up switching majors.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/educa ... wanted=all
My brother studied engineering at Columbia, graduated, worked in industry, wanted a change, and transitioned into a career on wall street . That particular opportunity to change was aided somewhat by the ivy name.