How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

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Hector
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How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Hector »

Let’s say the place where you live right now cost X dollars. How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?
30 minutes more commute to get 0.85X house?
60 minutes more commute to get 0.65X house?

Let’s say this includes additional transportation expense. What price tag would you put on time?
clevername
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by clevername »

I've read a number of studies that say commute is the worst part of many peoples day or job in general. Think about an hour long commute: horns, "the finger" and getting cut off for 60 minutes...and you haven't even started your work day yet. Personally I'd pay a bit more to live closer but that's me and it's hard to put a dollar value on it.
reggiesimpson
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by reggiesimpson »

30 to 45 minutes are typically the max. Then it becomes a drag on your life.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by awval999 »

reggiesimpson wrote:30 to 45 minutes are typically the max. Then it becomes a drag on your life.
I would say 30 minutes is the sweet spot. But in my mind that's 30 minutes from door to door, butt in the chair (or area, etc). So only like 20-25 minute automobile time.
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Hector
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Hector »

clevername wrote:I've read a number of studies that say commute is the worst part of many peoples day or job in general. Think about an hour long commute: horns, "the finger" and getting cut off for 60 minutes...and you haven't even started your work day yet. Personally I'd pay a bit more to live closer but that's me and it's hard to put a dollar value on it.
What if you take public transportation?
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by GregLee »

Hector wrote:30 minutes more commute to get 0.85X house?
I went for that in 1994 when I went from renting and 8 minutes to work to owning and 35 minutes (each way) to work. Well, I don't know about that 0.85X multiplier. I simply couldn't afford to buy a house closer to where I worked, so, it wasn't really a trade-off. I did what I had to.
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Mortgasm
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Mortgasm »

I have paid a 50% premium to save 60 or 90 minutes each way. I am very, very happy with the choice.
RenoJay
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by RenoJay »

Max 30 minutes each way, although I'd also investigate whether the closer housing holds its value better. If it does, it may be the better long term financial choice in addition to being the better lifestyle choice.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by boglestan »

I deliberately live without a car, so I'm very particular about where I choose to live and work. Right now I'm 25 minutes away from work (15-20min bus ride + walking) and I wouldn't want to be much farther. I love being able to read or play video games on the bus, but much over a half hour (1-way) seems like it's just eating away at my home life. I've driven 45-60 minutes each way to jobs in the past and I hated it. Driving is too tedious and stressful to be worth doing that long-term.

I read an interesting article recently about the hidden transportation costs associated with many "affordable" homes: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/housin ... less/1347/
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by livesoft »

I would not commute at all. I would switch jobs before I had to commute. Life is too short to waste it. My rule is always to live within 5 km of my job. That way, I can walk, bike, or drive to work.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by awval999 »

GregLee wrote:
Hector wrote:30 minutes more commute to get 0.85X house?
I went for that in 1994 when I went from renting and 8 minutes to work to owning and 35 minutes (each way) to work. Well, I don't know about that 0.85X multiplier. I simply couldn't afford to buy a house closer to where I worked, so, it wasn't really a trade-off. I did what I had to.
If you are talking about the beautiful Kalanianaole Hwy into Honolulu I think commuting is a better deal! I vacationed in Hawaii and rented a car and loved driving around the island. Very jealous of your commute :beer
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kenyan
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by kenyan »

Not far, and it's definitely a relevant choice where I live (SoCal). People actually choose to have round-trip commutes, often in head-smashing, hair-pulling, obscenity-shouting traffic, for 2, 3, even 4+ hours in pursuit of cheaper/more desirable housing.

For me, the choices are:
A) Rent in the desirable area close to work
B) Buy, if prices and job situation are reasonable enough, in the desirable area close to work

For a similar quality of life (schools, crime rate, etc.) to the expensive area close to work, I would have to increase my commute from 30 minutes round trip (in traffic) to at least 2 hours. No-brainer for me, regardless of housing choice.
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stevewolfe
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by stevewolfe »

I have a 40 minute commute each way. Only the last 1-2 miles typically is an issue for traffic congestion. Most of the time is a clean shot. I saved about 1/2 off the price of a comparable home. Other friends of mine live 10 miles from the office into a more congested area. Homes there cost 2x as much as I paid and his commute is beep and creep and about 25-30 minutes. I am real happy with my decision.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by TheEternalVortex »

I am very intolerant of a commute. Anything over 20 min makes me unhappy (right now I am around 15 min). Ideally it would be about 5-10 min (preferably walking).

Generally having a better home doesn't make you happier in the long term, but commuting less does make you happier.
rr2
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by rr2 »

We were renting a house with a fifteen minute commute (minimal traffic). We bought a house with less than 3 minute drive or 15 minute walk. Our housing expenses are approx 20% higher than when we were renting. Our gas expenses are about 50% lesser.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by gkaplan »

My commute is about forty-five minutes one-way. I live three blocks from the ocean. Unless they move the ocean, I'm not moving to shorten my commute.

(Actually, I don't think rent is any cheaper where I work than where I live.)
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by harrychan »

With a young family, time is much more precious than any $ so none.

BTW, I work from home.
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SheebaElwood
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by SheebaElwood »

For some people a quiet drive for 45 mins. is the absolute highlight of their day.
There is a reason some people choose to commute 90 mins. each way.
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Hector
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Hector »

stevewolfe wrote:I have a 40 minute commute each way. Only the last 1-2 miles typically is an issue for traffic congestion. Most of the time is a clean shot. I saved about 1/2 off the price of a comparable home. Other friends of mine live 10 miles from the office into a more congested area. Homes there cost 2x as much as I paid and his commute is beep and creep and about 25-30 minutes. I am real happy with my decision.
I am thinking something similar.
If I increase my commute by an hour, house prices are lower by half.
At our current location, rent is half than house mortgage and other associated costs. We are renting currently.
We are moving far, adding an hour to my commute, rent there is not more than mortgage and other associated costs. We are going to rent there for a while. I want to see how I feel about commute and if things are okay, we might go ahead and take mortgage.
i<3Investing
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by i<3Investing »

The problem is in LA it's more like:

1 hr for 90% of home price
2 hrs for 65% of home price
2.5 hrs for 50% of home price

Yay for renting :)
EagertoLearnMore
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by EagertoLearnMore »

A long commute is NOT worth the savings on the price of a house. The time on the road is tiring mentally and physically. Wear & tear on the car means you need to replace it more frequently and service it so that it is dependable for the long commute. Gas and insurance will cost plenty too. Bad weather, traffic jams, and anything that disrupts the norm will cause delays and aggravation. As you can see, I tried that for many years until it wasn't worth it anymore.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by clevername »

Hector wrote:
clevername wrote:I've read a number of studies that say commute is the worst part of many peoples day or job in general. Think about an hour long commute: horns, "the finger" and getting cut off for 60 minutes...and you haven't even started your work day yet. Personally I'd pay a bit more to live closer but that's me and it's hard to put a dollar value on it.
What if you take public transportation?
Good point. From the phrasing of your original question I assumed, perhaps inaccurately, you would be driving. I guess a 60 minute commute wouldn't be too bad If I could just walk out my door and take a single train or bus for 60 minutes and then get dropped off right in front of the office. I could read, get extra work done, or nap.

In this hypothetical situation though our traveler would probably end walking at least a few minutes from the house to the first stop and from last stop to the office. Also a transfer or two are not unlikely. Now that 60 minute commute is actually more like 75-90 minutes factoring in walking, waiting for that transit to arrive, transferring, etc. Does it get cold where you live? Blistering hot? Does it ever rain? How expensive is that public transportation? If you can use it in place of a car then it might be worthwhile but you could just as easily need a car AND expensive public transit. (I used to live in DC where I took the metro every day to work and still needed a car at home. Metro cost me about $5/day which adds up.)

I'm still not saying one way or another what I would do because there are so many variables involved in choosing housing, but a long commute is a long commute no matter how you cut it.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by DiscoBunny1979 »

For me, the answer will be derived from the following components:

1) How old you are
2) The reason for owning a house
3) Price of a gallon of gas and the gas mileage you get
4) Where the commute will take place.

I lived in the SF Bay Area years ago and had a commute that included owning a house in Santa Rosa and commuting to Palo Alto. One way: 1 1/2 hours without traffic.

Since I was young, I could handle the drive. Since I wanted to live in a house that I could renovate (on weekends) and therefore make money after selling it, it was worth it because the amount I could make in profit would equal a year or two salary. The Price of gas was only $1.35 back then and therefore the cost of commuting long distance was not a factor. The commute could be made by getting up at 4 a.m., getting in the car by 5 a.m and getting to work at 7 a.m. - which was great to get a head start on the day. Leaving work at 6 p.m. meant missing most of the Bay Area traffic through Marin and therefore arriving at home around 8 p.m. The commute though, took its toll in terms of quality of life during the week (there was none) and I had to plan for everything - that meals had to be planned, work-out schedule had to meet the demands of the work day by working out at a gym that was on the way home (or during lunch), and working overtime if required had to be factored into the equation. But eventually I was able to telecommute from home a few days a week.

The problem with telecommuting is that Managers can not see you everday and therefore you have to make an extra effort to produce, show that you are performing at or above your level of proficiency. Making staff meetings ON TIME would be especially important so you don't appear to be a slacker. Long Commutes for me also created an added sense of superiority in that I started speeding down the highway, rather than a leisurely rate.

Now that I'm older and wiser, I'd rather just be as close as possible to work.

OOOOPS Forgot to add that a big cost of commuting is the wear and tear on the Car. I drove a sports car and had to change the oil almost every 2-3 weeks! Tires get worn easily.
Last edited by DiscoBunny1979 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Userdc »

I work in Manhattan, so maybe I'm de-sensitized, but I don't think my 40-60 min commute is that bad.

I start with a 5 min drive or 15 min walk to the train station, then spend a relaxing 35 minutes on the commuter train, and then it's a 5 min subway ride or 15 min walk to work.

The train ride is just about the only quiet reading time I get and the walking is just about the only chance I get for exercise, so I don't begrudge the commute one bit.

I had a shorter commute when I lived in the city, but it was all standing on a cattle car subway, so it was a worse commute, in my opinion.
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grap0013
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by grap0013 »

I'm with Livesoft on this one. What a waste of time. I'd rather live in a pizza box close to work than have a 1 hour commute each way.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Rodc »

I live in an expensive town within 2 miles of work. Great schools (and I can get to them to pick up sick kids or see their class play in minutes from work). Good restaurants. Good library. A half mile from home starts a run or bike ride on trails that go for miles.

My house is not large, but it is large enough. I would not give up all the benefits of a short commute to work and schools just to get a bigger cheaper house.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by fareastwarriors »

I think it really depends. If I have kids, the commute might be worth it if the schools are better in the burbs than in the big bad city. Besides it would be nice for the kids to have a yard... Just my personal feelings.

I commute about 45m per way right now. I drive for like 15m, take subway for another 25, and plus/minus 5m for walking. It's fine for the most part.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by epilnk »

Hector wrote:Let’s say the place where you live right now cost X dollars. How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?
30 minutes more commute to get 0.85X house?
60 minutes more commute to get 0.65X house?

Let’s say this includes additional transportation expense. What price tag would you put on time?
Depends what you value more. I value the time. On my own I'd spend what I needed to get me something close to work. I would accept a 30 min commute to get a decent house in a good school system for my family. But if there were good schools nearer work I'd compromise on the size of the house to get the better location. I cannot imagine the house that would induce me to commute an hour.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by GregLee »

awval999 wrote:If you are talking about the beautiful Kalanianaole Hwy into Honolulu I think commuting is a better deal!
Yes, past the lighthouse at Makapu`u, winding between the cliffs and the Pacific, past the body surfers enjoying Sandy Beach, is all very nice. But twice every weekday? There's only so much beauty a person can take.
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black jack
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by black jack »

I'm with DiscoBunny: it depends.

I have a family, and I work in DC. My daily commute is an hour each way, and I live where I live in part to be within walking distance of a subway station.

In the winter and on rainy days, my commute is a 15-minute walk to the subway, a 30-minute subway ride, and a 15-minute walk to the office. Otherwise, it's an hour-long bike ride each way. So much of the time my commute doubles as my workout, and at the least I get an hour of walking and an hour of reading (on the subway). A buddy said I shouldn't even call it commuting.

If my commute involved driving for an hour in traffic, I'd have to be medicated.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by freebeer »

Seems for many of us schools are a factor pushing us to commute longer, not strictly cheaper home prices. But, this is really just another cost factor. As, with 2 kids, then you can get good private schools in most of the country (not Manhattan) for $50K/year for both. So you can turn that into extra $400K expenses if on average for 8 years. So really by moving to suburb, even with same home cost or even a bit higher, you end up saving money. In our area (Seattle), it's 40 minutes one-way commute, more or less, to save that $400K (getting out far enough so prices are equivalent but still good public schools - closer in suburbs prices are much higher). If you are lucky, 35 minutes of that commute is on a ferry boat, the other 5 minutes by walking. And, if you go any farther out you are back to private schools, as rural districts aren't top notch.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by chipmonk »

Hector wrote:Let’s say the place where you live right now cost X dollars. How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?
30 minutes more commute to get 0.85X house?
60 minutes more commute to get 0.65X house?

Let’s say this includes additional transportation expense. What price tag would you put on time?
I willfully commute ~25 minutes each way to get more expensive housing :P. I work in a relatively boring suburb and prefer to live in a relatively exciting, more youthful urban neighborhood.

I've considered moving closer to work, but mainly to lessen my commute, not to save money. I know that 13 miles/25 minutes seems relatively short to a lot of folks, but having never had a commute longer than 8 miles, and never having previously commuted by any means other than bicycle, my commute can seem interminable.
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Hector
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Hector »

DiscoBunny1979 wrote:For me, the answer will be derived from the following components:

1) How old you are
2) The reason for owning a house
3) Price of a gallon of gas and the gas mileage you get
4) Where the commute will take place.

I lived in the SF Bay Area years ago and had a commute that included owning a house in Santa Rosa and commuting to Palo Alto. One way: 1 1/2 hours without traffic.

Since I was young, I could handle the drive. Since I wanted to live in a house that I could renovate (on weekends) and therefore make money after selling it, it was worth it because the amount I could make in profit would equal a year or two salary. The Price of gas was only $1.35 back then and therefore the cost of commuting long distance was not a factor. The commute could be made by getting up at 4 a.m., getting in the car by 5 a.m and getting to work at 7 a.m. - which was great to get a head start on the day. Leaving work at 6 p.m. meant missing most of the Bay Area traffic through Marin and therefore arriving at home around 8 p.m. The commute though, took its toll in terms of quality of life during the week (there was none) and I had to plan for everything - that meals had to be planned, work-out schedule had to meet the demands of the work day by working out at a gym that was on the way home (or during lunch), and working overtime if required had to be factored into the equation. But eventually I was able to telecommute from home a few days a week.

The problem with telecommuting is that Managers can not see you everday and therefore you have to make an extra effort to produce, show that you are performing at or above your level of proficiency. Making staff meetings ON TIME would be especially important so you don't appear to be a slacker. Long Commutes for me also created an added sense of superiority in that I started speeding down the highway, rather than a leisurely rate.

Now that I'm older and wiser, I'd rather just be as close as possible to work.

OOOOPS Forgot to add that a big cost of commuting is the wear and tear on the Car. I drove a sports car and had to change the oil almost every 2-3 weeks! Tires get worn easily.
I am 32 and wife is 29. Currently wife works in Santa Rosa and I work in SF. We live in Marin. For those who are not familiar with this area, Santa Rosa is north of Marin and SF is south of it. My current bus ride is 30 minutes. Wife drives 40 mile one way. We have been doing this for about 18 months and its little too much for wife to continue doing so. Wife loves her work and most of the jobs in the field that I work in are south of golden gate bridge. I don’t want her to leave her job coz I see the satisfaction she is getting by working there. I think I can handle longer commute better, so we are moving to Petaluma/Rohnert park area. We want to start family after a couple of years and we plan wife to stay home for few years. In-laws are in Santa Rosa and we would like to be closer to them especially when we start a family. One reasoning for moving to Petaluma/Rohnert park area is to see if I am comfortable with my commute or not. If I am comfortable, we would like to make that place our long term home. If not, we would move back to Marin and would make it our long term home. I would take single bus in both scenarios. I would need to drive 5 minutes to go to bus station from home and bus drops me right next to office when we move. Currently I walk for 5 minutes to go to bus station and it drops me right next to office. The way house price are in Marin, we were not thinking about getting mortgage. Now when we were looking for places to rent in Petaluma/Rohnert park area, we realized that our mortgage would be lesser than our rent if we take mortgage debt. And thus this thread…
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SamGamgee
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by SamGamgee »

My commute involves a 20 minute walk and 60 minutes on trains. The walk is usually very enjoyable, and I get a lot of reading and sleeping done on the train.

Driving would be terrible.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

I used to live within 20 minutes of work - 10 minute walk with a 10 minute train ride.
Then I moved 7 miles further away and my commute became 45 min to 1 hour - 5 minute drive to train station, 30 minute commuter train ride, followed by 10 minute walk going, the reverse trip takes longer because there are more people milling about on the streets when I arrive in my neighborhood.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by bungalow10 »

I'm 35 minutes of car time each way, but adding in the daycare drop off it goes to 1 hour. I don't mind my commute, I listen to podcasts, and while it is terribly inconvenient now when my kids are little and need daycare, it won't be so bad in a couple years. My commute is windy two-lane highways, and is rather beautiful. No traffic.

We did save money with the longer commute, but also improved our quality of life. Small town, small schools. Large yards, friendly neighbors. No suburban cul-de-sacs, instead we have actual neighborhoods. I live in a 100 year old house in the heart of a tiny downtown, but have two lots and a small flock of chickens, a small orchard, and lots of play and garden space.

So we not only saved money, but got a better quality of life for our kids.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by scrabbler1 »

As someone who has often posted about my (former) commute, I agree with those who wrote, "It depends."

In my working years, I changed my commute in several ways and not usually due to cost of housing. When I was first working in the mid-1980s, I had a very short commute, about 25 minutes on the subway (Manhattan). But I did not like living in NYC any more and moved back to my native area of Long Island. My rent was about the same but I had my own place instead of sharing a place but the commute became 40 minutes on the LIRR along with the same subway ride. I was able to walk to the LIRR so the car I had just bought was not part of the picture.

Fast forward 14 years and the commute wore me down. I had bought an apartment which eventually lowered my housing cost but also had to reduce my commute - not in distance but in the number of days to make the trip. My company had also moved across the Hudson to Jersey City (New Jersey) which did not change the cost or time of the trip much but made it more tiring because the switch to the PATH trains was more annoying than the switch to the subway.

I switched to part-time work for the next 7 years to lessen the commute to 1, 2, or 3 days. I surely wasn't going to sell my apartment and move to New Jersey now that my housing costs were low (I had paid off the mortgage already). I surely would not have added to my commute (again) to get cheaper housing, doing that once in the 1980s (sorta) was plenty.

As an early retiree, my commute is zero which is the BEST!
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by House Blend »

GregLee wrote:
awval999 wrote:If you are talking about the beautiful Kalanianaole Hwy into Honolulu I think commuting is a better deal!
Yes, past the lighthouse at Makapu`u, winding between the cliffs and the Pacific, past the body surfers enjoying Sandy Beach, is all very nice. But twice every weekday? There's only so much beauty a person can take.
For me, trading commute time for beauty is worth it.

My most direct commute is 3.5 miles and 10 minutes, but in the mornings, I often take the "scenic route", which is 6 miles and 20 minutes. The middle 3 miles of it follows a winding river. No stop signs, little traffic, 35mph. Very peaceful.

It ain't Hawaii, but by early summer the green canopy is so thick you could confuse it with Kauai. (And in January, Siberia.)

Once per weekday is not too much beauty.
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by SamB »

For me the point of very diminishing return was about an hour. My first house was 2 miles from where I worked, and I walked to work, and this lasted for about 8 years. My second house, was bigger, in a much better school district, and in a better neighborhood. Drug dealing, gangs, domestic violence, etc. is way down in my current neighborhood. It was about 30 miles from where I worked, which amounted on average to a one hour commute.

I am retired now, and I no longer commute. Looking back, I would say walking to work was one of the most dangerous things I did for those 8 years. I am surprised I lived to tell about it.

I am walking a lot again, though, and my experience is that I will probably die as road kill at a "controlled" intersection rather than heart disease. What can I say, exercise can be hazardous to your health.

Commuting was a good idea overall, and the tradeoffs were positive for me.
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3CT_Paddler
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by 3CT_Paddler »

freebeer wrote:Seems for many of us schools are a factor pushing us to commute longer, not strictly cheaper home prices.
Great point. I think that is what drives much of it around Atlanta. We will probably move from a 15 minute commute (on a good day) to a 30-45 minute commute once our kids get a little older.
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kenyan
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by kenyan »

House Blend wrote:
GregLee wrote:
awval999 wrote:If you are talking about the beautiful Kalanianaole Hwy into Honolulu I think commuting is a better deal!
Yes, past the lighthouse at Makapu`u, winding between the cliffs and the Pacific, past the body surfers enjoying Sandy Beach, is all very nice. But twice every weekday? There's only so much beauty a person can take.
For me, trading commute time for beauty is worth it.

My most direct commute is 3.5 miles and 10 minutes, but in the mornings, I often take the "scenic route", which is 6 miles and 20 minutes. The middle 3 miles of it follows a winding river. No stop signs, little traffic, 35mph. Very peaceful.

It ain't Hawaii, but by early summer the green canopy is so thick you could confuse it with Kauai. (And in January, Siberia.)

Once per weekday is not too much beauty.
Naturally, there is a difference for many people depending up on the quality of the commute. 45 minutes in bumper-to-bumper traffic is a different experience than 45 minutes on open, scenic roads.

Also, if you happen to work in an area that isn't also a nice place to live, that might change the answer somewhat. I happen to work in an area that is both an employment hub (read: bad traffic) and a great place to live.

The math, for me is this -
24 hours/day
- 10 hours work+lunch
- 7ish hours sleep
- 1 hour getting ready for work/bed
- 0.5 hour average exercise time (needs to increase, I know)
= 5.5 hours/day for commuting plus family/leisure time.

Taking on a 2.5 hour round trip commute would mean that the time for what I actually want to do with my day gets reduced from 5 hours (with my current 30 minute round trip) to 3 hours, a reduction of 40%. Beyond the 40% reduction, it is also replaced with what would be the absolute worst part of my day. Perhaps the weekends would be more enjoyable due to a nice house/yard, but I don't really want to work solely for the weekend. In addition, the time spent with my son would be cut by at least 50% due to his early bedtime.

Not worth it IMO. I understand that others choose differently, but unless my situation changes dramatically I don't see myself taking on a long commute just for a house.
Retirement investing is a marathon.
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HomerJ
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by HomerJ »

It's not about time, it's about the traffic...

I don't mind a semi-long commute if I'm going 60 mph the whole way...

Morning commute doesn't bother me much... Listen to the news, get ready for work.
Afternoon commute sucks more - I just want to get home.
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Dan-in-Virginia
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Dan-in-Virginia »

I currently commute by subway. It's a 45 minute trip, but it's a straight shot (no transfers). Drive 2 miles (get on the DC Metro). My stop is directly across the street from where I work. So I could rest, email (using my iPhone or iPad), surf the web, read a book, etc. When I move in a few years, it will be to get closer in to DC (but not in DC) and in a good neighborhood. I will pay an enormous premium.

I know people who commute for 2 hours or more each way. I think they're insane.
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Hector
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Hector »

so not only distance and duration, but things like traffic, driving vs public transportation, availability public transportation, number of stops in public transportation and scenery matters.
Location also matters - 30 minutes of commute is a lot for most locations, but 30 minutes of commute in big cities like NY and SF is normal.
School system and neighborhood is very important for people with kids.
Cost associated with commute and housing are big financial factors.
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DiscoBunny1979
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by DiscoBunny1979 »

Hector wrote:
DiscoBunny1979 wrote:For me, the answer will be derived from the following components:

1) How old you are
2) The reason for owning a house
3) Price of a gallon of gas and the gas mileage you get
4) Where the commute will take place.

I lived in the SF Bay Area years ago and had a commute that included owning a house in Santa Rosa and commuting to Palo Alto. One way: 1 1/2 hours without traffic.

Since I was young, I could handle the drive. Since I wanted to live in a house that I could renovate (on weekends) and therefore make money after selling it, it was worth it because the amount I could make in profit would equal a year or two salary. The Price of gas was only $1.35 back then and therefore the cost of commuting long distance was not a factor. The commute could be made by getting up at 4 a.m., getting in the car by 5 a.m and getting to work at 7 a.m. - which was great to get a head start on the day. Leaving work at 6 p.m. meant missing most of the Bay Area traffic through Marin and therefore arriving at home around 8 p.m. The commute though, took its toll in terms of quality of life during the week (there was none) and I had to plan for everything - that meals had to be planned, work-out schedule had to meet the demands of the work day by working out at a gym that was on the way home (or during lunch), and working overtime if required had to be factored into the equation. But eventually I was able to telecommute from home a few days a week.

The problem with telecommuting is that Managers can not see you everday and therefore you have to make an extra effort to produce, show that you are performing at or above your level of proficiency. Making staff meetings ON TIME would be especially important so you don't appear to be a slacker. Long Commutes for me also created an added sense of superiority in that I started speeding down the highway, rather than a leisurely rate.

Now that I'm older and wiser, I'd rather just be as close as possible to work.

OOOOPS Forgot to add that a big cost of commuting is the wear and tear on the Car. I drove a sports car and had to change the oil almost every 2-3 weeks! Tires get worn easily.
I am 32 and wife is 29. Currently wife works in Santa Rosa and I work in SF. We live in Marin. For those who are not familiar with this area, Santa Rosa is north of Marin and SF is south of it. My current bus ride is 30 minutes. Wife drives 40 mile one way. We have been doing this for about 18 months and its little too much for wife to continue doing so. Wife loves her work and most of the jobs in the field that I work in are south of golden gate bridge. I don’t want her to leave her job coz I see the satisfaction she is getting by working there. I think I can handle longer commute better, so we are moving to Petaluma/Rohnert park area. We want to start family after a couple of years and we plan wife to stay home for few years. In-laws are in Santa Rosa and we would like to be closer to them especially when we start a family. One reasoning for moving to Petaluma/Rohnert park area is to see if I am comfortable with my commute or not. If I am comfortable, we would like to make that place our long term home. If not, we would move back to Marin and would make it our long term home. I would take single bus in both scenarios. I would need to drive 5 minutes to go to bus station from home and bus drops me right next to office when we move. Currently I walk for 5 minutes to go to bus station and it drops me right next to office. The way house price are in Marin, we were not thinking about getting mortgage. Now when we were looking for places to rent in Petaluma/Rohnert park area, we realized that our mortgage would be lesser than our rent if we take mortgage debt. And thus this thread…
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One of the reasons I left Santa Rosa was because Highway 101 was getting crowded with traffic. This traffic conjestion coincided with the opening of Home Depot and the expansion of Windsor with what was back then, new housing developments. The drive through Marin to SR was uncomfortably long especially on Fridays when people wanted to get away for the weekend to Sonoma or Napa (aka wine country) OR the Russian River. I don't know what the traffic conditions are today, but if they are the same (or worse) then while Petaluma/Rohnert park house prices are more affordable - you should really consider that traffic on 101 really bottles up before Petaluma where (if it's still the same) the highway merges to a 2 lane freeway. Even if they were able to widen the freeway, more people are living in the area and therefore more traffic.

The other problem I had with the commuting in Northern CA was the inability to get traffic/accident information in a timely fashion in order to determine whether I should stay late at work or take a different route home. This was before the Internet and therefore traffic information might now be more readily available today. The problem with Highway 101 through Marin is that it is the ONLY way to get to Petaluma/Santa Rosa unless you take an adventureous trip up Highway 1 almost to Bodega Bay and backtrack through Sebastopol/Forrestville somehow. I tried it once to by-pass Marin traffic and it took an extra hour on top of regular commute time. But Hwy 1 has no call boxes and I'm not too sure if cell phones actually work - so getting a flat tire would not be a good thing on that LONG stretch of scenic driving.
potato
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by potato »

I, for one, hate commuting. My drive to work is 8 minutes in the middle of rush hour. I pay $1500 a month for a 1br apartment, which may sound high but is not uncommon in this part of Silicon Valley. I could be paying $1000 if I chose to live near San Jose, saving $6000 a year, but I would be spending an hour a day in my car. Any less than $1000 in this part of the country and you're looking at either a high-crime neighborhood or living with roommates, which I don't really want to do. To give a rough estimate of the opportunity cost of all that driving, let's set the value of my time at my hourly salary of about $50. That puts the labor cost of driving at about $12000. Gas, extra repairs, and accelerated depreciation of my beloved little station wagon could easily add another $2000. Now $6000 in rent is starting to look like a bargain.
Valuethinker
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Valuethinker »

Hector wrote:
clevername wrote:I've read a number of studies that say commute is the worst part of many peoples day or job in general. Think about an hour long commute: horns, "the finger" and getting cut off for 60 minutes...and you haven't even started your work day yet. Personally I'd pay a bit more to live closer but that's me and it's hard to put a dollar value on it.
What if you take public transportation?
The effect is diminished if you take public transport, because the time is more 'your own'

The worst is heavy traffic.

The best is walking or bicycling (if safe).

Second best is the train

Third best is the bus.

I would rank that Lexington Avenue subway as the bottom of any commuting experience.
Snezz1e
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Snezz1e »

I personally hate commuting. At my old residence it was 30 minutes to get to work and 45 minutes to get home and I hated it. At my new home it is only 15 minutes to get there and 25 to get home. Traffic is always worst going home.

I work on an Air Force Base and lucky for me it's the opposite in terms of distance and price. The closer you live to the base the cheaper the house is. The reason to live farther away is better schools and lower crime. The area I now live in is in the middle.
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Hector
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Hector »

potato wrote:I, for one, hate commuting. My drive to work is 8 minutes in the middle of rush hour. I pay $1500 a month for a 1br apartment, which may sound high but is not uncommon in this part of Silicon Valley. I could be paying $1000 if I chose to live near San Jose, saving $6000 a year, but I would be spending an hour a day in my car. Any less than $1000 in this part of the country and you're looking at either a high-crime neighborhood or living with roommates, which I don't really want to do. To give a rough estimate of the opportunity cost of all that driving, let's set the value of my time at my hourly salary of about $50. That puts the labor cost of driving at about $12000. Gas, extra repairs, and accelerated depreciation of my beloved little station wagon could easily add another $2000. Now $6000 in rent is starting to look like a bargain.
Lets say I am making $50/hour. There are about 2000 working hours in a year so my annual salary is $100k. Let say if I live close to work and save an hour as opposed to my co-worker who is living far and spending an hour more in his commute, would that mean company would pay me $112k and $100k to my co-worker? I don't think so.
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Kashi
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Re: How much would you commute to get cheaper housing?

Post by Kashi »

livesoft wrote:I would not commute at all. I would switch jobs before I had to commute. Life is too short to waste it. My rule is always to live within 5 km of my job. That way, I can walk, bike, or drive to work.
This has (recently) become my own rule. Live where you work and waste as little time in transit as possible. I have a hard time believing many people opt for a 90 minute commute over a workout and walk/bike trip home. There's something better to do than being trapped in a car twice every day...

It's been an enormous boon to the quality of my life.
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