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letsgobobby
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Post by letsgobobby »

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Muchtolearn
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by Muchtolearn »

Doc, I am one too. I don't have epxerience with CME benefits. However, you make a good salary and I have found that if you are really in need of CMEs you can get them for about a buck or two per credit. Doctors are cheap initially because costs and debt are so high early on. But you can afford it. Don't sweat the small stuff. It looks bad.
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letsgobobby
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

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Ted Kan
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by Ted Kan »

During my 30 year career in academic medicine I was on faculty of three different university health care systems. Each had a different policy for CME reimbursement. One covered cost of books, one didn't and one gave a fixed amount that could be spent for any valid CME expense. If the other aspects of your position such as salary and other benifits are satisfactory I think you'd be best to accept this policy of your employer. You might attempt to get them to modify their CME guidelines but if that's the only thing you're not satisfied with I'd say your making too much of what seems to me to be a relatively small issue.
Muchtolearn
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by Muchtolearn »

letsgobobby wrote:the problem I have is that we get $2500 per year in CME benefit which can only be used as described. I don't need the CME; I really just want to read certain books (my field doesn't change as rapidly as some, and books are excellent resources). I don't understand why my employer has adopted a certain interpretation when others seem not to have.
I agree with Ted (his message is below). It is what it is. I advise not belittling yourself in working to change CME reimbursement policy. Work on chaning health care or patient issue policies if those need changes. Take it from an older guy who has taken stands on dumb things in the past.
dhodson
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by dhodson »

i seriously doubt irs regulations have incorporated cme standards. The question becomes is this really necessary for your work. Harder to argue since it isnt an actual requirement to read book x, y or z. You arent likely to win this battle with them since you cant prove the opposite that you must have this for licensure.
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wshang
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by wshang »

You might consider getting a subscription for Uptodate.com. It is a little expensive, but less than the cost of a week long conference. The material is very good and you can receive CME for every minute you spend looking articles up. It is brilliant - wish I had thought of it first!
The cure shouldn't be worse than the disease.
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schnoodlemom
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by schnoodlemom »

My husband's employer (non-gov, non-profit academic medicine) provides annually $2900 CME and $2300 Dues&Subscriptions for an Associate Professor/Clinical Faculty. He struggles to use all his budget because he often pays his way at conferences by giving talks. It becomes a use it or lose it benefit, I guess. Are there conferences in interesting locales that would double as work/vacation for you?
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ebotrd
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by ebotrd »

letsgobobby,
what books are you looking for? There are a lot of free resources out there for online medical books. I'll see if I can find them for you free.

I'll +1 that CME can be found dirt cheap these days anyway. medscape, mdconsult, uptodate, consultantlive (all ".com") are all cheap or free. There are MANY more, but not sure what your specialty is. I'm primary care.

I've had varying CME allowances in residency and at the 2 places I've worked (and they've also varied within the same organization as yours is now). Generally, if I can argue that I need a given CME to maintain licensure/board cert (such as a solid board review course the year before the recert exam), I'm much more likely to get reimbursement.
When something is important enough, you do it even if the odds are not in your favor. -- E. Musk.
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letsgobobby
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

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ebotrd
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by ebotrd »

name a few.
When something is important enough, you do it even if the odds are not in your favor. -- E. Musk.
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letsgobobby
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by letsgobobby »

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gasman
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by gasman »

How cold they not consider a medical text book a reasonable CME expenditure?
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ebotrd
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by ebotrd »

I agree, textbooks seem about as "reasonable" an item as their is. Not like he's going on a cruise or to Vegas to "learn". There's always taking the federal income tax deduction for work expenses, but I'd hope I never have to spend more than 2% of my income to become eligible for it.

Anyway, I poked around a bit and I couldn't find those books for free. Geriatric Neuropsych 2011 is at least $190 on Amazon. TBI was around $40 I think. www.bookhq.com can be a good resource for textbooks, but I was surprised I couldn't find these. Too specialized I guess.

www.MDconsult.com has these psych texts for free if they interest you:
Jacobson: Psychiatric Secrets, 2nd ed. - 2001
Stern: Massachusetts General Hospital Comprehensive Clinical Psychiatry, 1st ed. - 2008
When something is important enough, you do it even if the odds are not in your favor. -- E. Musk.
mhalley
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by mhalley »

My current employer gives us Zero for CME. However, my last employer was very liberal with what could be considered for cme, almost more like "business expenses" We could deduct cme trips, online cme, textbooks, correspondance cme such as up to date, heck, even could deduct our internet service or a computer. So every company has a different rule on what they will let you deduct. They should have some type of a list of things that they consider reasonable.
For some good cme (cheap per hour that you get) check cmedownload.com
http://cmedownload.com/
Mike
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letsgobobby
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

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Poster
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by Poster »

The clinic group I work for cut back a lot and would only consider fairly local cme we could drive to. I suggested a used dvd board review course from ebay that I bought for about 1/3 original price (a year old). I was also able to get a 2nd board review course on audio for about $80 more and sray well within budget I then got 5 days of cme time off to go through it all...got way more out of that than the usual hotel conference (despite the factthay I also ended up babysitting 1/2 the time so my wife could go out!) and I can review it over and over as needed. I will definitely try to repeat that next year.
goodbishop
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by goodbishop »

letsgobobby wrote:my employer (14,000 employees - large regional health care provider) changed our CME benefit last year. Now they only allow us to be reimbursed for expenditures directly related to CME Cat 1 - for instance, meetings. However, this excludes a major source or learning, namely journals, books, etc. Only those that directly have Cat 1 CME attached are being reimbursed.

They claim the reason for the change was a change in IRS rules. However, I have spoken with several other docs with other employers and they say there has been no change to their benefit.

Would you mind sharing whether you can use your CME benefit (assuming you have one) for books, journals, etc? And anything else about your program that would be helpful.
I know my wife gets 5k a year for CME, and can use it for whatever she wants. Plus 7 days a year too.
MinimalZen
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Re: docs (physicians): questions about your CME

Post by MinimalZen »

Did you ask HR to provide you with the specific IRS changes?
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