credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

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jeffyscott
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credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:45 pm

Two versions of tricky rebates that are not what they initially appear to be came to my house this week.

One was an offer I have gotten before from PNC that says on the envelope "4 points per dollar" and this is on all purchases. The trick is the point value is not 1 cent like most of these points programs, instead if you want cash it takes 50,000 points to get $100, so the points are worth only 0.2 cents and the rebates are only 0.8% (there is a slightly better ratio with gift cards, giving a point value maybe as high as 0.25 cents). So what initially appears to be 4% rebates is really only 0.8% to 1%.

Second was a change to the rebates for a BP card I have. This has been giving 5% on gas from BP. The new program is cents per gallon discounts. Initially reading it, I saw it saying something about 15 cents per gallon and I thought it was indicating that you would get a rebate of 15 cents per gallon and so I thought, "okay it still will be over 4% at current gas prices".

Then reading it again I became very confused, as it says you will earn 15 cents in cents per gallon rebates for every $100 you spend at BP and you can redeem this for a one time gas purchase of up to 20 gallons or you can redeem for cash at a rate of $15 for every dollar in cents per gallon that you have earned. I had think about this and write out the calculations to figure out that this means 2.2% rebates, if you take cash and 3%, at best, if you take it in gas discounts. In my case the most gas I could buy at one time would be about 16 gallons, so this would mean 2.4% if I used it for a discount on a gas purchase.

Since I have other cards giving 3% on gas, I'm done with that card. The change is not effective until March, but I have other options for getting 5% on gas this quarter.
Last edited by jeffyscott on Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery

Post by Kenkat » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:48 pm

I have a Chase BP Visa card and I am pretty sure it is still paying me 5% on BP gas, 2% on dining and travel, 1% on everything else.

Who issued your card?

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Re: credit card rebate trickery

Post by jeffyscott » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:07 pm

I have the same card, Chase BP visa. I just got the notice of the change today. Either you just did not get it yet, or they could be phasing it in, or testing it with only some customers.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:59 am

Aha, regarding the BP Visa change, via a search, I found this:

BP Credit Cards with Pump Rewards
BP credit cards are already carried by more than two million consumers and are on target to convert to cents-off rewards later this year. The BP Visa will offer 5¢ off per gallon for every $100 spent on purchases, with triple rewards at BP, and the BP Card will offer 5¢ off per gallon for every $100 spent at BP. This new credit card offer was recently piloted with approx. 4,000 BP card members and 20 BP sites in Indiana with outstanding results.


https://www.bpinsider.com/062211pumprewards.html

(not sure of the date of that article, but based on the webpage url, maybe it was 6/22/11 :?: )

and this: http://www.cspnet.com/news/services/art ... ign-launch
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by guitarguy » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:43 pm

jeffyscott wrote:Aha, regarding the BP Visa change, via a search, I found this:

BP Credit Cards with Pump Rewards
BP credit cards are already carried by more than two million consumers and are on target to convert to cents-off rewards later this year. The BP Visa will offer 5¢ off per gallon for every $100 spent on purchases, with triple rewards at BP, and the BP Card will offer 5¢ off per gallon for every $100 spent at BP. This new credit card offer was recently piloted with approx. 4,000 BP card members and 20 BP sites in Indiana with outstanding results.


https://www.bpinsider.com/062211pumprewards.html

(not sure of the date of that article, but based on the webpage url, maybe it was 6/22/11 :?: )

and this: http://www.cspnet.com/news/services/art ... ign-launch
So...is this change good or bad? :confused

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:32 pm

The change is bad, it will reduce the former 5% rebate on gas at BP to 2.2-3%, depending on the form you take it in and the size of your gas tank.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by perlith » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:36 pm

I just got my notice in the mail today. Let me do some quick math.

$300 a month in gas * 5% = $15 per month
$300 a month on travel and dining * 2% = $6 per month
$900 a month on misc. (including bills which can be put on a CC to bump up rewards) * 1% = $9 / month.

Usually comes out to $30/month for me in rewards. Call it $400/year safely with other added purchases.



Now, let's look at http://www.pumprewards.com advertised in the mail.

$300 in gas, $0.15 per $100 spent, so, $0.45 per gallon
$1200 in other, $0.05 per $100 spent, so $0.60 per gallon
======
$1.05 per gallon

Per the brochure "rebates are good for a one time fill on up to 20 gallons". Assuming I can maximum this every time:
20 gallons * $1.05 = $21

OR, if if I opt for the statement credit, I'm just over the "$1 in cents per gallon", so I'll get the $15 instead. Let's run with the $21 assumption.


I know my gas consumption per month is not going to change. In fact, I expect it to go DOWN with fuel efficient standards / higher MPG being pushed more and more. However, to be generous, let's assume it'll remain the same. Doing the math...

I would need to spend an additional $1100 per month in "other" purchases to make this new rewards program equivalent to the old rewards program.



Disadvantages:
- I'm down $9 per month based on my calculations, ~$100/year.
- Can no longer receive gift cards (VERY popular/easy gifts), as I have to use my own credit card to activate the rewards.
- Its a one-time use, hoping your vehicle has 20 gallon tank to maximize use, or, you lug along some gas cans with you.
- Rewards calculations require a PhD in mathematics to figure out (OK, not really, but its more complex than a simple percentage calculation).

Advantages:
- ??? (maybe for the Chase shareholders?)



I've had this card for a good five years. I have been thoroughly impressed with Chase and their customer service, and most BPs I've been to have been well-stocked and clean gas stations. This reeks of corporate greed from a company that made $19 billion in profits last year. Sadly, I did a quick search of other rewards cards, and couldn't find one that offered a better deal based on my numbers. Other cards may work out for other people depending on how the math works out. Will be on the lookout for one for myself.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Carl53 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:08 am

Seems to be the month for cc companies to be doing this. 2 of three of my cards have just reduced their rebates. First PenFed, which I've been using for about 2 years and now BP Visa that I've had since 1997. Unfortunately I froze my credit, so all those regular offers that showed up in the mail every few days are all but gone.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by guitarguy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:04 am

Well this card just basically became close to worthless. I use it only for gas, and spend about $350/m. About $17/m in rewards.

And I don't drive a Dodge Ram...which is about the only thing out there that has a 20 gal tank (ok not really but most smaller cars don't). So I can only use the 'rebates' for a one time fill up of our biggest tank (15 gal)...which means basically max rewards of $6.75/m??? Wheeeeeeee!

BTW...do you get the same $0.15 per gal if you spend $301 or $390 or is it some kind of sliding scale?

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:08 am

perlith wrote:Sadly, I did a quick search of other rewards cards, and couldn't find one that offered a better deal based on my numbers. Other cards may work out for other people depending on how the math works out. Will be on the lookout for one for myself.
Your numbers work out to 1.4%, at best.

You can get 1.5% on everything, plus an initial $100 bonus, with truly almost no hassle from Capital One cash rewards and, if it matters to you, there is no foreign transaction fee. You do have to wait a year to get the extra 0.5%.

Some others that may be better, depending on what you spend money on:

B of A has a card with 3% gas, 2% groceries, 1% other.

Amex blue cash everyday has 3% grocery, 2% gas, 1% other.

If you are a Costco member their Amex card has 3% gas, 2% travel and restaurants, 1% other.

There has been some discussion here of a card from Sally Mae that gives you 2% across the board, if you wait until you have $250. There is also a Fidelity card that has been discussed and gives 2% across the board.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by cap223 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:58 am

I'm thoroughly pissed with BP and chase now. I have used this card for all gas purchases for over 3 years.. In that time I have only going to non bp gas stations 10 times maximum. Now it's worthless.. I'm going to enjoy seeing them take huge loses this year as they lose customers. The only reason to give these guys the publics business was their rewards. I guys they figure people have forgotten about the oil spill.. I was willing to overlook it before due to the extra$ they were giving..

Saving 1% with a different card at a neighboring station that charges 3¢ MORE is actually cheaper... :shock:

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by guitarguy » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:15 pm

cap223 wrote:I'm thoroughly pissed with BP and chase now. I have used this card for all gas purchases for over 3 years.. In that time I have only going to non bp gas stations 10 times maximum.
Same here.

I probably will continue to go to BP though (whether or not I use the BP visa) as there is one right on my way to work that's open 24 hrs, is always clean, well lit, and stocked with paper towels and stuff for checking oil, plus has a radio going outside all the time. It's one of the nicer gas stations around my house. Boycotting that station will only hurt the local business owner, and I'll have to either drive out of the way or go to crappier joints.

(For those in areas where gas stations do the higher price for 'credit' vs 'cash' bull-bleep), the BP visa will also allow for the use of a credit card while still getting the 'cash' price.

Since going shopping for a new credit card and visiting other websites besides Chase to pay bills and check balances doesn't really sound like fun right now, I'll probably just use the Chase Freedom card (which gives 5% back on gas 6 months out of the year for 2012 anyway) in the 5% months, and stick with the BP visa in the off-months.

EDIT: I haven't received the notice indicating any changes yet either...just an FYI.
Last edited by guitarguy on Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery

Post by Kenkat » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:27 pm

jeffyscott wrote:I have the same card, Chase BP visa. I just got the notice of the change today. Either you just did not get it yet, or they could be phasing it in, or testing it with only some customers.
I haven't seen anything (at least that I am aware of). If you go to http://www.chase.com/bp, they are still clearly promoting the old deal:

With your BP Visa Card, you can:

Earn 5% rebates on all BP location purchases
Earn 2% rebates on all eligible travel and dining purchases
Earn 1% rebates on all other eligible purchases

Choice in Redemption

Each time you accumulate $25 in rebates, you decide how and when to redeem your reward. Redeem for your choice of:

A BP Gift Card
A check made payable to you
A donation to The Conservation Fund - a national environmental charity

Call me confused. If they change the deal as you indicate, I will probably drop that card.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:39 pm

In my case, dropping my use of the BP card will mean that I'll not be going to the BP station for gas. It was slightly out of my way, unless I happened to be stopping at the grocery store...also I had to listen to the annoying country music that the owner pipes into the pump area.

In addition, the owner also had refused to hire (or even interview) my unemployed son for some flunky job and then had her help wanted sign up for months after he had applied. I noticed it is now back up again, so whatever wonder she did hire after all that time did not stick around long.

The BP also tended to be a bit higher than some stations that are right on my way, but the difference had been less than the difference in rebates.

So I am happy to be able to take my business elsewhere for a number of reasons.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Carl53 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:01 pm

The following is part of a response I got from BP Visa when I expressed my dissatisfaction with the change.

Mr. xxxxxxx
I can imagine that you are unhappy with the new rewards
upgrade for BP cards.

However, I would like to clarify that with Pump Rewards
program your fuel price may roll down every time you fuel
up. It means earning rewards one day, then redeeming them
at BP the next day.

You may use your card for everyday purchases from gas and
groceries to dining out will earn Pump Rewards at BP. Get
15 off per gallon for every $100 you spend at BP and 5
off per gallon for every $100 you spend everywhere else.
Just for being a part of our new limited-release rewards
program, we will be awarding you a starting balance of
$1.30 off per gallon in your rewards bank on April 3rd,
2012.

However, if you are not happy with the rewards redemption
option, you have the choice to convert the account into a
Chase Freedom Points Ultimate Rewards card. The details
and the terms of the product are listed below.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by guitarguy » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:45 pm

Just got the notice in the mail today (it came yesterday).

Looks like we can enjoy our 5% rewards until March 1st...

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Kenkat » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:52 pm

I am hoping this "limited release rewards program" (from Carl53's post) goes over like a lead balloon and stays that way.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:15 pm

I don't think it is a limited release, one of the articles I had linked above says: The pre-launch campaign beginning Jan. 15 will involve direct mail, e-mail and statement inserts sent to the company’s nearly 2 million current Visa cardholders from Chase Bank, BP’s card-issuer

Somewhere else I had read they had done a trial in Indiana some time ago (and it was very popular).

I think they have two things going for them: the rewards are confusing, so many will be unable to determine whether this is a better deal than alternatives and people will get nearly immediate gratification at the gas pump. On top of that most over react to gas prices, so seeing the rewards reflected in the price of gas at the pump will likely be very effective.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by guitarguy » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:40 am

jeffyscott wrote:I don't think it is a limited release, one of the articles I had linked above says: The pre-launch campaign beginning Jan. 15 will involve direct mail, e-mail and statement inserts sent to the company’s nearly 2 million current Visa cardholders from Chase Bank, BP’s card-issuer

Somewhere else I had read they had done a trial in Indiana some time ago (and it was very popular).

I think they have two things going for them: the rewards are confusing, so many will be unable to determine whether this is a better deal than alternatives and people will get nearly immediate gratification at the gas pump. On top of that most over react to gas prices, so seeing the rewards reflected in the price of gas at the pump will likely be very effective.
Exactly. People will be getting less, but because they're getting it now, it won't matter. Look honey this fill up cost us less!! Wooo hooo!

Eh...people. :roll:

At least we have a couple more months (until March 1st) with the current program in place. Then it's on to using the Chase Freedom card @ 5% back for March 1-31, open options from April 1 - June 30, Freedom from July 1 - Sept 30, open options for Oct 1 - Dec 31.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by prudent » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:56 am

We should expect the top rewards cards to change their programs from time to time, not get upset over it. Banks offer an enticing rebate program in order to win our business, and after a couple years they scale it back while hoping that customers are so used to using the card they will continue to use it. It's always been that way and probably will continue. They have a marketing strategy and we have the option to stay or move to another card. Not worth getting upset about.

We can make the most of the best programs while they last and then move on, and that's about all we can do.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Triple digit golfer » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:04 am

I didn't read the BP Visa one closely yet, but it appears to me that it's simply 15 cents per gallon.

I'm sure I missed some fine print or some other little trickery in the details.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by midareff » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:45 am

FIDO which auto transfers has a 2% on everything AMEX card that automatically transfers $$ to a FIDO ccount when rewards have acccumulated $50 or more. There is a FIDO VISA @ 1 1/2% for the folks tht do not take AMEX. Hope they don't try to change the plans.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by norookie » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:53 am

:mrgreen: You guys also have to consider paying cash nets a discount on gas @ the pump also.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by prudent » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:56 am

norookie wrote::mrgreen: You guys also have to consider paying cash nets a discount on gas @ the pump also.
I know that's true in some places but none of the stations around me have a cash discount.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:06 am

Triple digit golfer wrote:I didn't read the BP Visa one closely yet, but it appears to me that it's simply 15 cents per gallon.

I'm sure I missed some fine print or some other little trickery in the details.
That's the tricky part. My first reading was 15 cents per gal and I thought that was not much less than 5%. The way it works is you spend $100 on gas and that entitles you to a one time 15 cent per gallon discount on up to 20 gallons.

So you buy 30 gallons of gas at $3.33, spending $100. Now you can buy 20 gallons at $3.18 (15 cent discount), spending $63.67. In total you have spent $163.67 on 50 gallons of gas, without the card you'd have spent $166.67. So your effective rebate was $4 on $166.67 in spending...about 2.4%. That is the best case scenario, you will get less than this if you are unable to buy 20 gallons in one transaction or if you take rebate in cash.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:10 am

prudent wrote:We should expect the top rewards cards to change their programs from time to time, not get upset over it.
This is true, I did not expect 5% on gas to last as long as it did. I posted this more because of the confusing nature of the new program at BP as well as the PNC trick of devalued points.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:15 am

guitarguy wrote:At least we have a couple more months (until March 1st) with the current program in place. Then it's on to using the Chase Freedom card @ 5% back for March 1-31, open options from April 1 - June 30, Freedom from July 1 - Sept 30, open options for Oct 1 - Dec 31.
I'm done with the BP card now, myself. Chase gives me a bit more than 5%, due to the 10% bonus and 10 points per transaction. Discover also gives more as you can usually get at least a $25 gift card for $20. Plus those are not limited to BP stations.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by guitarguy » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:27 am

norookie wrote::mrgreen: You guys also have to consider paying cash nets a discount on gas @ the pump also.
No, at least not around here. Cash isn't the discount...paying credit is an up-charge (usually about $0.10 extra per gal). This is usually only the case at some stations around here. The BP I usually go to doesn't differentiate between method of payment.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by guitarguy » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:31 am

jeffyscott wrote:Chase gives me a bit more than 5%, due to the 10% bonus and 10 points per transaction.
Which Chase card is that?

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:17 pm

Chase freedom is the one with 10% bonus (I think that's if you have a bank account) and 10 bonus points per transaction...so that's actually 5.7% on gas for Jan-Mar, if you buy $50 worth at a time.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Triple digit golfer » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:17 am

jeffyscott wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:I didn't read the BP Visa one closely yet, but it appears to me that it's simply 15 cents per gallon.

I'm sure I missed some fine print or some other little trickery in the details.
That's the tricky part. My first reading was 15 cents per gal and I thought that was not much less than 5%. The way it works is you spend $100 on gas and that entitles you to a one time 15 cent per gallon discount on up to 20 gallons.

So you buy 30 gallons of gas at $3.33, spending $100. Now you can buy 20 gallons at $3.18 (15 cent discount), spending $63.67. In total you have spent $163.67 on 50 gallons of gas, without the card you'd have spent $166.67. So your effective rebate was $4 on $166.67 in spending...about 2.4%. That is the best case scenario, you will get less than this if you are unable to buy 20 gallons in one transaction or if you take rebate in cash.
I read it closely last night. I could either get a $15 credit on $666.67 in purchases (2.25%) or 15 cents per gallon after spending $100.

I think your math is wrong. If you spent $100, you'd get your next 20 gallons at $63.60. Total spent $163.60. Without the $0.15 per gallon off, you'd have spent $166.60. $3.00 savings divided by $166.60 is 1.80%, not 2.40%.

Anyway, the higher gas costs per gallon and the smaller tank you have, the worse the deal is for you.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:46 am

Triple digit golfer wrote:I think your math is wrong. If you spent $100, you'd get your next 20 gallons at $63.60. Total spent $163.60. Without the $0.15 per gallon off, you'd have spent $166.60. $3.00 savings divided by $166.60 is 1.80%, not 2.40%.
You're right, I had mistakenly used $4 savings instead of $3 in calculating the percent. But then, I guess we'd have to consider that there'd be another 9.55 cents per gallon earned from the the discounted purchase of $63.67 in gas. I think this then becomes a calculus problem? But in any case, the limit would be something less than 3%, as the $3 potential savings on the initial $100 is 3%.

For my own tank, it would be something less than 2.4%, as I typically can buy about 16 gallons at most.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:00 am

Aha, I think I've got it. Suppose gas is $3.50 per gallon, spend $2333.33 on 666.67 gal and you get a discount of $3.50 per gallon on 20 gallons. So now the 20 gallons are free and you have bought 686.67 gallons for $2333.33, instead of $2403.33, saving $70. This is 2.91%.

I don't think the price of gas affects the result, I get the same percentage at $4 per gallon.
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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Triple digit golfer » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:56 pm

That is incorrect. The price per gallon affects the savings percentage.

You get EITHER 15 cents off per gallon on up to 20 gallons for every $100 spent

OR

A $15 credit for every $1.00 in cents per gallon (which is earned at $666.67 of BP purchases)

What does the $2,333.33 and 666.67 have to do with anything? I'm a little confused as to why you're using those numbers.

For every $100 you spend (whether gas is $0.01 per gallon or $5 million per gallon), you get a discount of $0.15 per gallon on your next purchase of up to 20 gallons.

So the first $100 in spending, it doesn't matter how much gas costs per gallon.
However, on the fill-up of up to 20 gallons, it would affect the calculation.

Let's take two examples.

A) Gas is $4.00 per gallon. You'd get 25 gallons for $100 (this is irrelevant). Then your next 20 gallons would cost you $77.00 ($3.85/gallon) instead of $80.00. Total cost is $177.00, total savings $3.00. Without savings, cost would have been $180.00. Savings is 1.67% ($3.00/$180.00).

B) Gas is $2.00 per gallon. You'd get 50 gallons for $100 (this is irrelevant). Then your next 20 gallons would cost you $37.00 ($1.85/gallon) instead of $40.00. Total cost is $137.00, total savings $3.00. Without savings cost would have been $140.00. Savings is 2.14% ($3.00/$180.00).

The denominator is going to change based on how much your 20 gallon fill-up costs. Savings will always be $3.00, assuming you get the full 20 gallons.

Let's do the above two examples assuming you only get ten gallons on your discounted fill-up.

A) Your 10 gallon fill-up would cost $38.50 instead of $40.00. Total cost is $138.50, total savings $1.50. Savings is 1.07%.

B) Your 10 gallon fill-up would cost $18.50 instead of $20.00. Total cost is $118.50, total savings $1.50. Savings is 1.25%.

So you see that your percentage saved increases if gas is cheaper (since it's always $0.15 per gallon, but dividing by a larger denominator makes the percentage lower) or if you get a higher number of gallons on your discounted fill-up.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:47 pm

Triple digit golfer wrote: Let's take two examples.

A) Gas is $4.00 per gallon. You'd get 25 gallons for $100 (this is irrelevant). Then your next 20 gallons would cost you $77.00 ($3.85/gallon) instead of $80.00. Total cost is $177.00, total savings $3.00. Without savings, cost would have been $180.00. Savings is 1.67% ($3.00/$180.00).

B) Gas is $2.00 per gallon. You'd get 50 gallons for $100 (this is irrelevant). Then your next 20 gallons would cost you $37.00 ($1.85/gallon) instead of $40.00. Total cost is $137.00, total savings $3.00. Without savings cost would have been $140.00. Savings is 2.14% ($3.00/$180.00).
But in A you are then getting additional rebates on the additional $77, while in B you would only get additional rebates on $37.

That's why I did an example where you let the rebate accumulate until you get the 20 gallons of gas free. Since the 20 gallons is free, there is no additional spending on the discounted gas and then rebates on that amount to complicate this and turn it into a calculus problem.

$2333.33 would get you a $3.50 per gallon discount. So you get 20 gallons of $3.50 per gallon gas for free after buying 666.67 gallons @ $3.50 per gallon. Therefore you have received 666.67+20 = 686.67 gallons of gas for $2333.33. At $3.50 per gallon the 686.67 gallons would have cost $2403.35. You have saved $2403-$2333 = $70, so it is as if you bought the gas for the full price of $2403 and got a $70 cash rebate...that's a 2.91% rebate.

This calculation will have the same result at any gas price because it will always be 20 gallons free after paying for 666.67 gallons.
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Triple digit golfer » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:55 am

$2333.33 would get you a $3.50 per gallon discount.
he best you could get is $0.15 per gallon discount on up to 20 gallons. So after $100 of spending, you'll get your next 20 gallons at $0.15 off. There is no free 20 gallons. It is impossible to get a $3.50 per gallon rebate.

UNLESS!!! - You're just saying hypothetically after all the 20 gallons are essentially "free" after so many $0.15 rebates. In that case I don't feel like doing any more calculations. :)
But in A you are then getting additional rebates on the additional $77, while in B you would only get additional rebates on $37.
That is correct, and something I did not take into consideration.

OK, no more calculations. All I know is that the BP Visa blows now.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Carl53 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:16 am

Triple digit golfer wrote:
But in A you are then getting additional rebates on the additional $77, while in B you would only get additional rebates on $37.
That is correct, and something I did not take into consideration.
The additional $77 purchase is just that another transaction that you expect rebates on. It is just a hook to get you to continue the purchases since if you no longer purchase gas at BP you lose any accrued but not redeemed rebates. At Krogers, you lose the fuel perks points that you do not use by the end of the next month. Also you lose any points that exceed one tier level of benefits but not reach the next. Do I like it, no, but that's still the best game in town for me. BTW I've not used my BP card too much for gas at BP since I've had the PF card for use at Krogers fuel pumps and got 5% rebate for any pay at the pump and used the AMX 6% grocery rebate at Krogers to get the fuel discount points. Its all a game.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by guitarguy » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:06 am

Triple digit golfer wrote:All I know is that the BP Visa blows now.
It blows as of March 1st, yeah. :annoyed

Until the change goes into effect it's still my best option, so now comes the calculation of exactly how much gas do I have to buy to end up with just over $25 in rewards that I'll redeem before March 1st and then file that card with my other worthless junk...

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:53 am

Triple digit golfer wrote:UNLESS!!! - You're just saying hypothetically after all the 20 gallons are essentially "free" after so many $0.15 rebates. In that case I don't feel like doing any more calculations. :)
No, I am saying you don't have to "spend" the 15 cent discount right away. You can save up your rebates until you are entitled to a $3.50 per gallon discount.
OK, no more calculations. All I know is that the BP Visa blows now.
Yep, just knowing it is less than 3% is enough for me...but calculations can be fun :) . Plus, there is no telling how long 3% will be available on gas from other cards, so it's worth knowing about what the BP deal is worth. For me, with a maximum fill of about 16 gallons, the BP program is worth 2.25% to 2.3%...and really, probably a bit less than that since I'd often drive past a Mobil with a price of a few cents or up to maybe about 1% below BP, in order to get the 5% rebate.

(Reading some of the fine print, rewards are good for up to a year and you actually can not reduce the gas price to less than 10.9 cents per gallon with the accumulated rewards, so you can't actually get to 0. In my case I don't drive enough in a year to get there anyway. But I think the 2.9% number still represents the best that is theoretically possible, so no one is better off using this versus one other cards that gives a 3% cash rebate on gas.)
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:59 am

guitarguy wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:All I know is that the BP Visa blows now.
It blows as of March 1st, yeah. :annoyed

Until the change goes into effect it's still my best option, so now comes the calculation of exactly how much gas do I have to buy to end up with just over $25 in rewards that I'll redeem before March 1st and then file that card with my other worthless junk...
Note that the materials appear to say that after March 1, you can get a statement credit for the full value of your cash rewards balance. I've got $4 or so residual and my reading is that I can take the $4 as a statement credit after March 1.
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by guitarguy » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:42 am

jeffyscott wrote:
guitarguy wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:All I know is that the BP Visa blows now.
It blows as of March 1st, yeah. :annoyed

Until the change goes into effect it's still my best option, so now comes the calculation of exactly how much gas do I have to buy to end up with just over $25 in rewards that I'll redeem before March 1st and then file that card with my other worthless junk...
Note that the materials appear to say that after March 1, you can get a statement credit for the full value of your cash rewards balance. I've got $4 or so residual and my reading is that I can take the $4 as a statement credit after March 1.
After March 1st I won't want a statement credit because I'll no longer be using the card!! :mrgreen:

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Triple digit golfer » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:53 pm

jeffyscott wrote:
guitarguy wrote:
Triple digit golfer wrote:All I know is that the BP Visa blows now.
It blows as of March 1st, yeah. :annoyed

Until the change goes into effect it's still my best option, so now comes the calculation of exactly how much gas do I have to buy to end up with just over $25 in rewards that I'll redeem before March 1st and then file that card with my other worthless junk...
Note that the materials appear to say that after March 1, you can get a statement credit for the full value of your cash rewards balance. I've got $4 or so residual and my reading is that I can take the $4 as a statement credit after March 1.
I wonder how you could request that.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by PabloPicasso » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:12 pm

I just got the notice yesterday. I immediately suspected something fishy... I sat down and did the math, and it does indeed cut your discount from 5% on gas to under 2.5%. Points on travel and dining will go from 2% to approximately 1.5%. Not sure about the "everything points" - I got so disgusted when I started playing with the numbers that I moved on to bigger and better things.

But make no mistake, Chase is changing the terms - and it's not for the better.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Kenkat » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:19 pm

I got my notice yesterday also. Dirty rotten scoundrels! It's either Chase Freedom or maybe no more Chase at all.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by t1o1n1y » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:18 am

Anybody have a phone# to call and complain I cant find one
Everyone should call Deb Walden the lady who name is on this letter

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:58 am

Venting on the phone is a waste of time. If I did want to complain I'd send an email via chase online access, but I'm not going to bother doing that either. I've simply stopped using the card, the card issue will see this and probably say "good riddance, he was one of those freeloaders who used the card only for gas and always paid his full balance on time".

Anyway, not really a big deal, getting 3% on gas, instead of 5%, means about $40 per year less in rebates for me...and actually probably more like $20, as with 3% I am not limited to BP.
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by Kenkat » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:13 pm

Any idea if current Chase BP Visa cardholders who switch to the Chase Freedom Rewards card are eligible for the $300 cash back when you spend the first $500 on the card?

I am trying to decide if I keep this card and use it for dining and travel only (which will still pay 1.5% if my math is right), or switch to the Chase Freedom card or something else like Amex Blue Cash. The Chase Freedom seems like it is basically the same as Discover, which I already have. But a $300 rebate might convince me...

My wife and I were talking this morning and basically came to the conclusion that the rewards programs on credit cards have become so complicated that they have become impossible to keep track of.

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Re: credit card rebate trickery (Chase BP Visa and PNC)

Post by jeffyscott » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:34 pm

Rather than switch, I think you would just sign up for a new account and get whatever bonus rewards the new account is giving. Having another chase card would not effect eligibility (it never has for us) as long as you don't have chase freedom already. In fact, you and your wife can each sign up for an account and each get the bonus.
press on, regardless - John C. Bogle

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