Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

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flowerbuyer
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Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by flowerbuyer »

My 45 year old stepdaughter has created a financial disaster for herself., and expects to be rescued. She has an attitude of entitlement(her dad's words).

She divorced last year. She has two spoiled daughters, 16 and 10, to whom she has never said "no".She and her ex have shared custody. In the divorce, she received responsibility for debt on five credit cards, some of them joint. Her ex received at least an equal amount of debt responsibility. Since then, she has opened two more credit cards. SHe has now maxed them out., and owes about $35,000 according to her ex. She is overdrawing her checking account and is having trouble paying her rent and utilities. She has no assets, except personal items, household furniture, and two cars.

Last year, she withdrew all of her Simple Ira, and spent every dime. When her daughter turned 15, she bought her a 2001 BMW, even though she couldn't drive it until she turned 16, a year later.

We have always been careful with our money. We clip coupons, eat at "early bird" specials, do our own yard and repair work, etc. We are self insured for Long Term Care. My husband owned his own business, and his daughter was the office manager. Because she was family, he paid her about 3 times what he would have paid someone else. When he sold the business, he negotiated a five year contract with the new owner for her to remain in her job at a reduced salary of $50,000 per year for 30 hours /week.

What we have saved and invested is what we live on, plus SS. Because she was involved with his business, she hs a good idea of his net worth, and the fact that he is leaving everything except the house to her and her brother. She knows she will receive a healthy inheritance someday.

She cries to her dad that her ex won't help her pay for the girls' clothes or activities (he pays her a modest amount of child support). She cries to her friends that her family won't help her, and it isn't fair that her ex can play golf once a week, and she can't afford to do anything. She cries to her ex that her dad hasn't offered to loan her money or pay off her debt. Yet her dad has been very generous. He gave her $10,000 in August to re-pay her for part of the cost of the 16 year old's BMW. (He had planned to gift each of his grandchildren $10K on their 16th birthday for their first car, but mommy jumped the gun by a year.)

Two yeaers ago we gifted her my 2004 Lexus GX470. When he sold the store, she received $150,000 for the stock he had gifted her over the years. Three weeks ago she whined that the Lexus badly needed tires. He didn't want her driving on bad tires this winter, so he priced them at Costco, gave her the money, and told her to get them on right away. He talked to her yesterday, and she said she hadn't had time to do it. We know the money is gone.

She buys her girls expensive designer clothes and front row tickets to Taylor Swift concerts (yes, two of them in two months), and then complained to her ex that she can't afford to pay for her cell phone, so he put her on his plan. She tells us the girls are mad at her because she has no money to spend on them. We tell her she doesn't need to spend money on expensive stuff for them, and to put them on an allowance. She also seems to resent the fact that we are retired, and do some traveling (on a budget).

My husband is so upset. He never thought she would be like this. She seems to have disease, similar to alcoholism,only with money. He does not want to bail her out, but he's afraid for her. She always tells him how depressed she is, and that scares him.

Has anyone heard of a "financial intervention"? Ideally, he would like her to go to credit counseling, give up her credit cards, learn how to budget, pay off her bills, say "no" to her kids, put them on a strict allowance and live within her means. We love her, we love our granddaughters, but how do we convince her to get her life on track? Right now it's a train wreck, and my husband isn't sleeping at night, worrying about her.

Any ideas?
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dave66
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by dave66 »

I'm not a doctor, and I don't play one on TV. But sounds to me like she needs more than a financial intervention. There's a reason why she's trying to buy happiness. I would try and get her into therapy. She's not going to want to go. People who need to go never want to go of course. You might have to hold money over her to get her to do it. It's a tough situation. Sounds like she's completely disconnected from reality. Cutting her off would probably be the only thing that would pull her back into reality, but then you have the kids to worry about. Sounds like they're just feeding off of her attitude, so you'll get stuck with them pulling the same stuff later in life. I would not worry too much about being tough. You have a life too and you can't allow this behavior to drag you down. Because I've seen people's kids drag the parents right down with them in situations like this. I knew one guy who played pro football and blew out his knee. He used that as an excuse to ruin his life for the next 20 years, and pulled his whole family right down with him. Countless DUIs, lawsuits... His parents had to sell their house and spend the rest of their life broke, living in a double wide.
marylandcrab
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by marylandcrab »

Like alcoholism or drug addiction, you can't make someone want to fix something about themselves. She knows she has an ultimate safety net with an inheritance. I have a business and though my kids are still teenagers, working for the business or running it themselves someday isn't an option. Frankly, she's been spoiled by your dh - getting paid 3x her worth without earning it? No wonder life is skewed. However, she's my age, long past time to take responsibility for herself. I'd try one conversation about your concern with her finances. Give her a copy of Dave Ramsey's book - it really does help get basic personal finances in order. But stop enabling her today and tell her clearly you are going to, but your dh has to agree to this as well. She's like a junkie wanting one more fix of oxy and you all are doling it out one at a time.
socca
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by socca »

Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?
My answer would be yes and no. No, because your daughter is an independent financial entity and thus your husband doesn't have the power to intervene financially in your step-daughter's life. Yes, because your husband can specify exactly how much financial support your step-daughter can expect (both now and in the future) and demand that your step-daughter live within this strictly defined boundary. If your step-daughter oversteps this boundary and gets herself in financial trouble, she has only herself to blame. It would be major mistake (in my opinion) to 'rescue' her in this scenario - suffering the consequences of poor decisions may encourage her to make better decisions down the road.
imagardener
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by imagardener »

Your stepdaughter didn't suddenly become this way, she is the product of her upbringing + her personality. Anything you do will make you the bad guy in a bad situation. You cannot "fix" her but you and your husband can sit down and discuss what level of support he will continue to give her. It would be wise for you 2 to talk to a family counselor (not financial counselor) and that neutral 3rd party can tell your husband the facts that what he is doing is "enabling" in her bad situation, like buying an alcoholic a bottle of booze when they ask for it.

Then when he attempts to cut off the money flow it will be the counselor that gets named (and blamed) not you.
I seriously doubt things will change but you should continue talking to your husband about how your joint finances are functioning. The financial counseling he should consider is estate planning to set up a "spendthrift trust" so that she gets an income that can't be seized by creditors instead of inheriting a lump sum.

I had a person like your stepdaughter in my family and his parents used a life estate on their home to protect him. This was their only asset unlike your husbands larger estate and it lasted until he died providing a roof over his head and later cash flow from rentals.
Last edited by imagardener on Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Opponent Process
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by Opponent Process »

I think these are the symptoms of receiving too much economic outpatient care from her parents, and at this point it's the Pottery Barn policy for you guys.
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livesoft
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by livesoft »

I was going to ask folks if anybody knew of a turn-around story when I thought of my own sister.

She was a profligate spender, then ran out of money when her husband died and no one would give her any money. After some tough years, she became a fan of Dave Ramsey and is doing alright nowadays. So it is possible to change.
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dailybagel
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by dailybagel »

I was actually going to suggest that your stepdaughter is a good candidate for Financial Peace University, a 13-week program with weekly classes and small group discussions. Offered by the Dave Ramsay organization. Covers the basics of financial "mechanics," plus some behavioral issues.
RadAudit
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by RadAudit »

The longer I live the more I come to realize there's one like this young lady in most extended families to one degree or another - there sure is in mine.

No matter how much others are responsible for the individual's behavior, the individual's behavior has to change. No matter what the individual's upbringing was, at some point, she has to become responsible for herself. So, as much as it may hurt all involved, the behavior of giving them money has to stop or the behavior will continue until the money is gone and everyone will be in a similar situation - only you'll be too proud to beg and too old to pull yourself out of the financial hole.

If no one else will go to counseling - you may have to go on your own. You are wrapped up in this situation too - there are some steps you have to take to protect yourself.

Good luck. It won't be a pleasent learning experience.
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Van
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by Van »

Opponent Process wrote:I think these are the symptoms of receiving too much economic outpatient care from her parents, and at this point it's the Pottery Barn policy for you guys.
Does everyone else know what the "Pottery Barn policy" is? I do not.
livesoft
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by livesoft »

A web search leads to "You broke it; you own it." or something like that. Google is power.

However, that it not the actual policy of Pottery Barn.
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scouter
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by scouter »

In my opinion, she is in dire need of "tough love", financially speaking. As long as your husband and her ex keep enabling her, she will never grow up. The "depression act" sounds like emotional manipulation, to me.

The only money I would spend on her would be to offer to pay for her to attend Dave Ramsey's "Financial Peace" course, and she would have to sign a contract agreeing to attend every class.

I know you might be thinking "That's easy to say, but hard to do when it's your own child", but from what I've seen with family and friends, these situations usually come from many years of enabling. I think the best thing you can do for her (and her daughters) is to continue to offer love and support, even financial education, but to also refuse to bail her out anymore. This would include any expensive gifts (cars, money for tires, etc.) which she could use for other purposes.

A formal sit-down meeting in the style of an intervention might be an effective way of presenting this to her. This is a really tough situation, much like dealing with an alcoholic family member, and I wish you success in dealing with her.
Last edited by scouter on Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
555
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by 555 »

Tell her you will disinherit her if she doesn't change.
foxfirev5
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by foxfirev5 »

Buzz words - BMW, Lexus, make me think this didn't happen overnight. Failure to manage expectations combined with a reality check are in my opinion overdue. That's about as polite as I can be considering this is Thanksgiving and what many people are going through in these tough times. This is just my two cents and I do not intend to offend anyone.
neatep
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by neatep »

I think the parents have a bit to answer for here.

I think deep down you knew that giving the money for the tires was not going to be spent on the tires, but you gave it to her anyway. You have shown her all her life that you guys will look out for her. (paying her x3 normal salary is a prime example) So now she has a massive sense of entitlement.

She just hasn't ever really grown up.

You should have a chat with her at the very least. Sit her (and any other children?) down together and tell them;

From how i see it you need to do a number of things:
(a) Remove future expectations of guaranteed wealth. (she has to lose her sense of entitlement)
(b) Change current spending habits.
(c) Ignore all future pleas for help, no matter what she asks. Or what she says.

ie you could (a)
That you guys have updated your will, and you plan to leave them X (100k? 50k? ) amount of money.
The rest you are planning to donate to charity for those who are more unfortunate then them.

(b)
Others have suggested courses you could sign her up to.

(c)
You have to realize that are doing more damage each time you are helping her compared to the damage she pretends is happening when she comes crying for help and you don't give it.

If she does listen, be careful for the ploy of: her saying that 'she understands now'... she knows she has to chagne... then asking you to wipe the slate clean and helping her out.

Let me repeat, her entire life you give her stuff when she complains enough.
From this day forward the only time you are allowed to give her anything, is once she has shown her attitude has changed.

You could always show her this thread as well...
Boglemama
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by Boglemama »

A financial intervention would be a great idea. It probably won't help her to change, but it's a start. She will get really angry at you both. It will be your fault and your problem, not hers.

I say all of this because I hit bottom when I was 19. (MANY moons ago...) My debt accumulated by living on credit cards in college after I lost my job was over 20k and I went to my parents for help. They gave me the number for Consumer Credit Counseling Service. I was SO P*SS*D! I had no other options as no one would help me. I paid off the debt over many years and am incredibly responsible now. I have actually helped 3 friends get out of debt by helping them to budget.

You and your husband have been incredibly generous to your step daughter. It's unfortunate that she has not had a chance to fall on her face before now. She would have learned her lesson without 2 children to support. Since you are concerned that she is depressed, I'd suggest counseling and then also do an intervention with the counselor's help.
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flowerbuyer
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by flowerbuyer »

foxfirev5 wrote:Buzz words - BMW, Lexus, make me think this didn't happen overnight. Failure to manage expectations combined with a reality check are in my opinion overdue. That's about as polite as I can be considering this is Thanksgiving and what many people are going through in these tough times. This is just my two cents and I do not intend to offend anyone.

No offense taken. She appears to live in a fantasy world which will soon come crashing down. We have given her advice when asked, she appears to agree, and then does what she wants, and not what she can afford. As for the BMW, we were shocked; she had told the kids not to tell Grandpa and Grandma, because somewhere inside she knew it was a stupid thing to do.

We gifted her the Lexus a few years ago when she was married because the lease was up on her car, her husband was making far less money than he had been (due to the bad economy's effect on his line of work), and we tried to help them by eliminating a car payment.

Our granddaughters are bright kids, get good grades, and are sadly spoiled rotten by HER (not us.) So we give them our time....have them stay at our house for the weekend (no shopping), make s'mores on the BBQ, or the gas stove in the kitchen when it rains. Play card games.
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flowerbuyer
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by flowerbuyer »

I truly appreciate all of your advice...I plan on telling my husband of your wise words. He told me she needs to hit rock bottom, I just don't know if he is strong enough to let her. Which is why I asked about an intervention. I know she would be furious, but maybe it would get some serious attention.

You are right. Giving her money is like giving an alcoholic a drink. And because my husband is afraid to hurt her feelings (he doesn't want to end up being estranged from her), he ends up enabling her.

Three months ago I convinced him to make a change to his will and DPOA when I re-read our wills and found out she was the secondary POA and Executor, by telling him I was uncomfortable with her decisions. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to convince him to set up her half of the inheritance as a spendthrift trust. Hopefully , he will rethink that.
j920
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by j920 »

foxfirev5 wrote:Buzz words - BMW, Lexus
/5-year contract job/$150,000/etc...

Count how many times you've given her "gifts." It's just adding oil to the fire. Your husband giving your step-daughter a $50,000/year job (which was a pay cut from the original amount, and the original amount was three times more than someone else would have received) is one of the first things you mentioned, and from that alone it is obvious that she doesn't think she has to work for anything, and will always have some sort of fatherly-financial backup. If it were up to me, I'd cut her off completely.
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dave66
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by dave66 »

In all fairness, it would be a little cruel to cut her off 100% at this stage. Cut back and make her get a little uncomfortable, yes... But she has to learn how to fish on her own, before you completely take all the fish away.
RoadTrip!
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by RoadTrip! »

flowerbuyer, your post really reasonates b/c we have a similar issue in our own extended family. Another idea your husband may consider, if he's willing to revisit his will, is to take a portion of his daughter's share and leave it in trust to the grandkids instead. The share would be managed/disbursed by a trustee who is not either parent. Your husband could leave instructions that the principal/income is to be used for education or other salutary purposes and any remaining corpus would be released to the beneficiary only at attainment of some appropriate age (perhaps as old as 30, even). Not only would this ensure the grandkids were provided a good start to their independent years (may be especially needed if their dad also has not been willing/able to save for their education) but also it is a way of shocking the daughter into perhaps changing her ways by hitting her in the (future) pocketbook. It puts a sum of $$ absolutely beyond her control and yet funds a purpose many see as a parent's responsibility, helping with a child's education expense (thus it being appropriate that the grandkids' welfare come out of the daughter's share). The share that remains for bequest to daughter could be directed into a SPIA perhaps, to ensure that daughter at least had some income for life. This latter plan is something that has been done in our family. For us, no one in the family wanted to be trustee of a spendthrift trust and live our old age constantly being appealed to for disbursements, and the corpus was not expected to be large enough that a bank trustee could be expected to hang in there b/c the aggravation was compensated for by the management fees. Alternatively, if your husband is young enough that the grandkids will be through college during his lifetime, perhaps he could still devise a plan that diverts $ from daughter's future bequest into an education fund for the kids. It might help the daughter change if she is presented with the facts that this is not her $ and that so long as she is perceived as being spendthrift her "inheritence" will be irretrievably diverted away from her to purposes that the benefactor deems worthy. I hope your husband can get to a resolution on this; it's not healthy to live with such stress. Regards, Beth
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dave66
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by dave66 »

Beth wrote:flowerbuyer, your post really reasonates b/c we have a similar issue in our own extended family. Another idea your husband may consider, if he's willing to revisit his will, is to take a portion of his daughter's share and leave it in trust to the grandkids instead. The share would be managed/disbursed by a trustee who is not either parent. Your husband could leave instructions that the principal/income is to be used for education or other salutary purposes and any remaining corpus would be released to the beneficiary only at attainment of some appropriate age (perhaps as old as 30, even). Not only would this ensure the grandkids were provided a good start to their independent years (may be especially needed if their dad also has not been willing/able to save for their education) but also it is a way of shocking the daughter into perhaps changing her ways by hitting her in the (future) pocketbook.
I agree, that is a good idea. I unfortunately was the victim of a parent that was very selfish and irresponsible with money. Her mom coddled her and she has always acted like a spoiled brat. Her mom trusted her with the majority of their inheritance, and she has spent/lost most of it. I received part of it as well, but it was much smaller than what she received. Yet, all of hers is gone and I still have most of mine. She also sold land (at the bottom of the market) that was supposed to eventually be mine, and spent that money too. My life has been considerably more difficult than it needed to be, because her parents did not take the proper precautions with how they setup their inheritance plans.
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Dan-in-Virginia
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by Dan-in-Virginia »

Been here before, helping out mother in law. However, the person you're helping has to recognize that they have a problem and demonstrate a willingness to change, accept imposed structure and limitations.

My wife and I make $250K per year. I drive a 1999 car (bought when I made $55K per year), change my own oil, save, and live well below my means. My wife clips coupons (and has for years) and shops multiple grocery stores each week for the best deals. She is teaching my 10 year old daughter how to shop the clearance racks and how to take advantage of sales. Yes, we splurged on a Disney World vacation last summer (staying at Shades of Green to save money) and bought new iPhones (using "limited" performance bonus money, rewarding ourselves for our work) after our 2 year plan with AT&T was up, but it didn't touch our existing or ongoing savings (paid for from a discretionary income stream). Today is black Friday, and I'm saving lots of money, because I'm not going shopping for Chinese trinkets I don't need. I will buy things, I'm not a miser, but I plan for them and think strategically before acting.

These are values and principles. How do you teach them? It's something you either learn growing up or learn through experience. I never had a lot of money and had to work for what I have. I learned over time how to budget and then automate the execution of the budget through account-based budgeting. I applied the system I developed for my mother in law (meltdown in 1999) and now she's happily retired, living independently with a new car, and saving. She was willing to let someone else take over direction of her finances (her bills are paid automatically, has LTC insurance, has savings accounts for travel, healthcare, emergency fund, and investments). She has money put into NFCU accounts she uses for discretionary and grocery spending. Point is, she operates within this structure, and has freedom and security because of it.

I think you need to stop enabling this woman. Not until you see the whole balance sheet (credit report showing all the debts owed) and evidence she's making good judgements to improve her situation. If she won't accept some structure and monitoring, you are wasting your money.

Until she can live within her means, she's going to be heading for bankruptcy clear and certain.

Never give cash. That's like giving cash to a junkie--I wonder what it will be used for? If she needs tires and you want to help, buy them yourself.

Money is power. Use that power to cause her to make positive changes, but don't feel guilty about forcing the change. You might pay for an independent financial advisor to work out a plan and monitor her following it. That way, the plan and oversight are being done independently--where your assistance flows as long as she's doing her part.
neverknow
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by neverknow »

I too, know about this situation. I thought there must be something wrong with my love'd one. How could they care about me at all, if they were willing to spend every dime I had, leaving me bankrupt under a bridge, a bag lady in my old age? And it wasn't as if they needed my money - they earned double what I did, and were spending it on glittering baubles and trinkets. I got backed into a corner, my clothes in tatters (everything of mine they were spending, I couldn't spend) and came busting out of that corner as mad as a hornet. That person has been banished from my life, and legally -- won't be able to get a dime ever again.

A notable similarity in some of these stories of essentially co-dependency is the savior is justifying they spend their money wisely, while telling the tale of the addict - spending unwisely and protecting their supply -- as if this needs to be explained, and justified. It does not. It is ones money to give, not ones money for someone else to take. And that bit is written in the Bible - Matthew 20:15 I'm not particularly religious, but that is how guilty I felt, cutting off my parasite. Another similarity - I was told all that bauble / trinket spending was my fault. That is plainly illogical.

Other bells rung in this thread -- I would have gone flat broke under that bridge in my old age, in order to help my love'd one (if there had been something medically wrong with them) - rather that is pride or stupidity, I don't know. -- The stepdaughter using "depression" with her father, in order to keep an open line to her supply (money) could potentially be dangerous, depending on how far she would be willing to take that, to press her fathers buttons -- it is the fathers sleeplessness worrying that rings a similar bell with me ...

Which tells me, this issue is too big for you as a family to solve by yourselves. Unless it is an open checkbook for the step daughter to have whatever she wants until the day the father dies (and everything he will give her after death). -- Go get a family counselor involved. The step daughter is an addict. She will do or say whatever she needs too to keep her supply to un earned money free and open -- including going to the family counselor. She will think she can manipulate the family counselor as well. Yes, it is a financial issue -- but the use of depression to get what she wants -- can be dangerous. Put that kind of risk into the hands of someone who knows about that subject.

I remain a wreck. But flowerbuyer -- you telling your story actually helps me. I hadn't realized this is a common story and that others had the problem. My parasite reigned terror upon my head as I tried, to rid myself of them (the addict, trying to keep their supply of my money). I remain afraid. I, personally, am still healing. I hope for your sake -- this reign of terror, is not true in your case. May you have a less intractable problem then I had.

Mine was not a child, or a mother in law -- so quit with the guilt trip that the father caused this. Apparently it can happen, whatever the family relationship is -- and all the co-dependent enabler is guilty of is humoring the problem, rather then confronting it. -- And personally, I did the math -- how much would it cost me to look the other way, versus the terror that was reigned down upon my head? Sounds no different then being the captive audience of a violent drunk. It is abuse. Don't blame the victim.

Good luck, flowerbuyer. Hearing of your problem makes me sad. It is a sad, but apparently - common, human problem.
neverknow
TRC
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by TRC »

flowerbuyer wrote:
Yet her dad has been very generous. He gave her $10,000 in August to re-pay her for part of the cost of the 16 year old's BMW. (He had planned to gift each of his grandchildren $10K on their 16th birthday for their first car, but mommy jumped the gun by a year.)

Two yeaers ago we gifted her my 2004 Lexus GX470. When he sold the store, she received $150,000 for the stock he had gifted her over the years. Three weeks ago she whined that the Lexus badly needed tires. He didn't want her driving on bad tires this winter, so he priced them at Costco, gave her the money, and told her to get them on right away. He talked to her yesterday, and she said she hadn't had time to do it. We know the money is gone.

Any ideas?
Your husband is part of the problem. Stop enabling her and cut the financial chord permanently. Right now it's apparent that he's her financial safety net.
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bottlecap
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by bottlecap »

I imagine it will be hard to cut her off and watch go through bankruptcy, but that's probably what will need to happen. I would have hubby's also start dropping hints that the inheritance isn't a sure thing, as he's found a new favorite charity he might leave things to. She needs to understand that the inheritance might not come through. And you never know, it might not.

Good luck,

JT
dalerobk
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:51 pm

Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by dalerobk »

I think the first post was right on. From the very limited info we have, it does sound like she has much deeper emotional issues that need to be addressed. She also sounds very manipulative. Going around mentioning what you need to people with money is as good as asking for it, especially when she combines that with talk of how depressed she is. Has she ever talked about hurting herself? Does your husband fear her hurting herself? Is her talk of depression almost a threat that if she becomes more depressed about money that she might hurt herself? If so, and I'm not saying that is the case, that that is manipulation and emotional abuse on her part toward your husband. It's almost like she's threatening to hurt herself if she doesn't get the money and it would be on your conscious. I'm not saying she is doing this consciously or that she is a bad person, but rather to reinforce that she needs to talk to a professional therapist (and not about money). Again, very limited information and all, but I think you should probe a bitter deeper into the emotional side of things. I'm kind of curious about her recent divorce too. The nature of the failure of that relationship might be worth thinking about and shed light onto her current state of mind.

Also, I agree that your husband created this monster (figuratively speaking). He has basically encouraged her to be dependent upon him. It might be worth your husband thinking through that and his emotions as well.

Anyway, if she can't pay her bills, I would simply let her declare bankruptcy. It sounds like she needs a crash course in financial independence. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world even though it will hurt to watch her go through hell.

Finally, do you have college funds set up for the two girls?
savermike
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by savermike »

For all the "that will teach her" in this thread, the fact is that it might not. You and your husband need to be of one mind and one heart on what's next if the heretofore-unthinkable-action doesn't work on schedule. More stress in the family is going to mean more stress for the girls, too.

Mike
Dave C.
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by Dave C. »

This a a fine opportunity to help everybody a little ( maybe)' and to help yourselves a lot. You have been enabling for years, so don't expect much sympathy....you started it. You guys have to sit down, by yourselves, and determine how you will continue to help, in a greatly reduced manner. Such as, "we'll pay the girls auto insurance for the next year" or "we'll give you $X for groceries every month for the next 6-months". Now the tough part.....that's it. You figure out what you provide and for how long, my examples are just my examples.

You have to grow up yourselves. Stop hurting your child and set some limitations.....(likely the first time, in a long time). You guys have been building this problem for years. It is easy to point your finger at your daughter.

This is your car....you have been driving for years....daughter has been along for the ride. You are the only ones that can help her starting driving....and buy her own gas.

It won't be a quick fix, but please stand your ground for once. :?
Easy does it/Live & Let Live/One day at a time. Thanks Bill.
Topic Author
flowerbuyer
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Location: Western Washington (state)

Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by flowerbuyer »

Husband and I have been married for 17 years (he is 72 and I am 67). I did not raise this child, but I love her. Being that she is my stepdaughter, I am limited as to what I can do, personally,other than advise my husband to do some tough love, and print out this thread for him to read. We have discussed an intervention, but don't know how it works, or what kind of help is available to advise us how to stage an intervention.. He has said, over and over again, "I never thought she would be like this". We've also discussed letting her go bankrupt.
Until reading some of your answers, I honestly didn't realize he was enabling her by paying her the higher salary, etc. I don't think he realized it, either. He just thought he was taking care of family.

BTW, I raised my two daughters under different circumstances (on a budget). Both adults, both still single, both self-supporting, they are gifted from my mother's estate each year, and there are more strings on that money than a guitar: $5,000 to Roth IRA, the rest to max out their 401Ks (on top of what they put in from their own funds), and $500 to spend. And since I have access to their accounts, I know they do what they are supposed to do.
And they know what will happen if they don"t! :twisted:
Redbelly
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by Redbelly »

flowerbuyer wrote:.................. He does not want to bail her out, but he's afraid for her. She always tells him how depressed she is, and that scares him.............................
Your step daughter is using emotional extortion on your husband. I recognize it because I have seen it in my DW's family. Somehow when the chips are down, the subject of "I just don't know what I might do" gets dropped to dear old mom, who runs off and starts calling the other kids to grub up some money for the parasite. It is a very effective technique.
leonard
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Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by leonard »

flowerbuyer wrote:BTW, I raised my two daughters under different circumstances (on a budget). Both adults, both still single, both self-supporting, they are gifted from my mother's estate each year, and there are more strings on that money than a guitar: $5,000 to Roth IRA, the rest to max out their 401Ks (on top of what they put in from their own funds), and $500 to spend. And since I have access to their accounts, I know they do what they are supposed to do.
And they know what will happen if they don"t! :twisted:
Sorry, but this is a bit disturbing. Why would grown, responsible adults need "strings" to stay on the right course? Also, what adult would allow their parent access to their accounts?

Although playing out very differently, money is being used for control in both your case of your step daughter and your daughters, just to achieve different goals. Paying someone 3 times their worth in the case of your step daughter is managing someone with money. Micromanaging another persons finances - in the case of daughters - is control via money. I think it's time to let everyone - step and otherwise - run their own life and focus on enjoying yours.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.
Topic Author
flowerbuyer
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:32 pm
Location: Western Washington (state)

Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by flowerbuyer »

leonard wrote:
flowerbuyer wrote:BTW, I raised my two daughters under different circumstances (on a budget). Both adults, both still single, both self-supporting, they are gifted from my mother's estate each year, and there are more strings on that money than a guitar: $5,000 to Roth IRA, the rest to max out their 401Ks (on top of what they put in from their own funds), and $500 to spend. And since I have access to their accounts, I know they do what they are supposed to do.
And they know what will happen if they don"t! :twisted:
Sorry, but this is a bit disturbing. Why would grown, responsible adults need "strings" to stay on the right course? Also, what adult would allow their parent access to their accounts?
They both trust me with help in their finances. They are in the learning phase, as far as making a financial plan; they both have asked for help in setting up their asset allocation, and asked me to rebalance across their accounts for them once a year. One of them is very interested and active in her finances. The other's eyes glaze over whenever the subject comes up.
One is the ant, the other tends to be a grasshopper, even though she admits she should behave more like the ant. (those are her words, not mine)

Guess I have more of a control issue than I realized. :oops:
Dave C.
Posts: 301
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by Dave C. »

Yup. Now you are beginning to see the road to true independence for all parties concerned. :roll:
Easy does it/Live & Let Live/One day at a time. Thanks Bill.
natureexplorer
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Location: Houston

Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by natureexplorer »

Sounds just like a cocaine addiction. I recommend going cold turkey.
dalerobk
Posts: 346
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:51 pm

Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by dalerobk »

flowerbuyer wrote:
leonard wrote:
flowerbuyer wrote:BTW, I raised my two daughters under different circumstances (on a budget). Both adults, both still single, both self-supporting, they are gifted from my mother's estate each year, and there are more strings on that money than a guitar: $5,000 to Roth IRA, the rest to max out their 401Ks (on top of what they put in from their own funds), and $500 to spend. And since I have access to their accounts, I know they do what they are supposed to do.
And they know what will happen if they don"t! :twisted:
Sorry, but this is a bit disturbing. Why would grown, responsible adults need "strings" to stay on the right course? Also, what adult would allow their parent access to their accounts?
They both trust me with help in their finances. They are in the learning phase, as far as making a financial plan; they both have asked for help in setting up their asset allocation, and asked me to rebalance across their accounts for them once a year. One of them is very interested and active in her finances. The other's eyes glaze over whenever the subject comes up.
One is the ant, the other tends to be a grasshopper, even though she admits she should behave more like the ant. (those are her words, not mine)

Guess I have more of a control issue than I realized. :oops:
I'm sure your intentions are good, but they need to learn to do things for themselves, whether it be finances or otherwise. I'm guessing they're somewhere between mid-20s to mid-30s. They should not have Mom managing their money. It's fine to talk to them about finances and even give advice when they ask for it, but they need to learn to be independent.
milestogo
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:16 pm

Re: Is there such a thing as a FInancial Intervention?

Post by milestogo »

You might benefit from an estate planning attorney session and family counselling--even if only you and your husband will attend. If the two of you were on the same page it would be a better situation for all. Your step daughter is behaving like an addict and your husband sounds as if he may be co-dependent.
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