Do you own your primary domicile?

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Do you own your primary domicile?

Poll ended at Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:18 pm

YES
150
50%
YES
150
50%
 
Total votes: 300

pete82
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Do you own your primary domicile?

Post by pete82 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:18 pm

The U.S. national average is 67%. What is the rate of home-ownership by Bogleheads?
"What everybody else knows is not worth knowing." - Gerald M. Loeb

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ryuns
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Post by ryuns » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:23 pm

The Boglehead rate is 0%, n =2, when I tuned in. But as of July 8th, the answer will be yes.
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton

MWCA
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Post by MWCA » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:31 pm

Rent primary domicile. But own a vacation home. I think Im doing it wrong..
We are all worms. But I believe that I am a glow-worm.

Manbaerpig
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Post by Manbaerpig » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:29 pm

if the bank owns 55%, does that mean they own it if I'm paying the note?

Technically, it means they do. Is that the question posed here?

I am not a home-owner, the bank is the majority stakeholder

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Opponent Process
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Re: Do you own your primary domicile?

Post by Opponent Process » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:42 pm

pete82 wrote:The U.S. national average is 67%. What is the rate of home-ownership by Bogleheads?
home ownership or mortgage ownership?
30/30/20/20 | US/International/Bonds/TIPS | Average Age=37

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LH
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Post by LH » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:47 pm

Post subject: Do you own your primary domicile?
Was wondering what line of work are you in?

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JupiterJones
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Post by JupiterJones » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:48 pm

Yeah, I'm not sure how to answer this one. The bank still owns about 720 square feet of my house.

JJ
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LH
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Post by LH » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:53 pm

Manbaerpig wrote:if the bank owns 55%, does that mean they own it if I'm paying the note?

Technically, it means they do. Is that the question posed here?

I am not a home-owner, the bank is the majority stakeholder
I follow you, believe me, but technically, I think you own the house, you also have the obligation to pay back a loan, and said loan has a lien(I believe that is correct term) on the house. They do not own the house, you do. But if you cannot pay back the loan, "your" house, is forfeit to pay the loan back, in theory at least.

But yeah, I do not feel like I "own" my house per se yet either per se, especially when I had a home as an asset, but disregarding that, negative net worth otherwise. I always considered that the bank actually owned my house, and if I screwed up, or things went bad even without me screwing up, I would lose it. I have it near about 60 percent paid off now, when I have more money in taxable, than I have in the mortgage, I will feel like I fully "own" it then, regardless of the presence of a loan with a lien on it.

twacapt
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Post by twacapt » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:05 pm

We own our 3,000 sq ft home free and clear, and have since age 50.
I think it should be a priority to pay the mortgage as early as possible, certainly before you retire.
If you can't, you probably have too much home.

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Jake46
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Post by Jake46 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:18 pm

Own our home. No mortgage. Sleep well at night.

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Sunny Sarkar
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Post by Sunny Sarkar » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:47 pm

Jake46 wrote:Own our home. No mortgage. Sleep well at night.
This phase of the renting side is almost always forgotten in the rent vs own comparisons. Over a period of 35 (or M+N) years, renting means 35 (or M+N) years of increasing rental payments, while owning means 30 (or M) years of fixed mortgage payments and then 5 (or N) years FREE.
"Cost matters". "Stay the course". "Press on, regardless". ― John C. Bogle

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ElJay
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Post by ElJay » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:06 pm

Sunny Sarkar wrote:
Jake46 wrote:Own our home. No mortgage. Sleep well at night.
This phase of the renting side is almost always forgotten in the rent vs own comparisons. Over a period of 35 (or M+N) years, renting means 35 (or M+N) years of increasing rental payments, while owning means 30 (or M) years of fixed mortgage payments and then 5 (or N) years FREE.
The equation works fine when you don't have move within the next 35 years. My lack of a 35-year crystal ball is the primary reason why I do not want to saddle myself with six figures of debt in the form of a house. When I lose my job I do not want to have the anchor of a house dictating what jobs I can take.

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Noobvestor
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Post by Noobvestor » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:10 pm

Happy/intentional renter here.
"In the absence of clarity, diversification is the only logical strategy" -= Larry Swedroe

traineeinvestor
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Post by traineeinvestor » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:24 pm

Happy to be an owner - especially in a local real estate market where rents have been rising rapidly for the last few years.

I will probably kill the mortgage when I retire.

tim1999
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Post by tim1999 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:27 pm

Yes, I own my meager shanty. I am 30-ish but plan on staying here until I am dead. I love my house.

Grt2bOutdoors
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Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:04 pm

Sunny Sarkar wrote:
Jake46 wrote:Own our home. No mortgage. Sleep well at night.
This phase of the renting side is almost always forgotten in the rent vs own comparisons. Over a period of 35 (or M+N) years, renting means 35 (or M+N) years of increasing rental payments, while owning means 30 (or M) years of fixed mortgage payments and then 5 (or N) years FREE.
Don't forget - owning means 30 (or M) years of fixed mortgage payments + 35 years of increasing compounded property taxes and insurance payments and then 5 (or N) years FREE. :wink:

There is no free lunch.

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NAVigator
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Post by NAVigator » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:24 pm

Citi used to own part of it, but they never helped with the cleaning, so I bought them out.

Jerry
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."

corsibay
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Post by corsibay » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:27 pm

We do own our modest home. I believe that the big advantage for ownership v. renting is, if the owner does stay long enough to pay off their mortgage they will, even though still paying property taxes and insurance, pay significantly less than the renter, especially if their state , like mine, gives an exemption to homeowners 65 and above. I have to admit though I have seen no studies on this.

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Rob5TCP
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Post by Rob5TCP » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:28 pm

I have in the past, not now
In Manhattan the percentage is probably is 20-30%

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Noobvestor
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Post by Noobvestor » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:31 pm

GRT2BOUTDOORS wrote:
Sunny Sarkar wrote:
Jake46 wrote:Own our home. No mortgage. Sleep well at night.
This phase of the renting side is almost always forgotten in the rent vs own comparisons. Over a period of 35 (or M+N) years, renting means 35 (or M+N) years of increasing rental payments, while owning means 30 (or M) years of fixed mortgage payments and then 5 (or N) years FREE.
Don't forget - owning means 30 (or M) years of fixed mortgage payments + 35 years of increasing compounded property taxes and insurance payments and then 5 (or N) years FREE. :wink:

There is no free lunch.
It also means having a highly-illiquid chunk of net worth that can prevent moving as desired, changing lifestyles to accommodate personal or professional life changes, and time/energy/stress spent worrying about things breaking that I *personally* prefer living without 8-)
"In the absence of clarity, diversification is the only logical strategy" -= Larry Swedroe

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Christine_NM
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Post by Christine_NM » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:33 pm

Owner since 1976. Free and clear since 1993. Four different houses.

Edited to add first condo I forgot. Paying off mortgage was part of retirement planning.
17% cash 47% stock 36% bond. Retired, w/d rate 2.85%

asset_chaos
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Post by asset_chaos » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:12 am

Somehow, the wife owns the house, and I own the mortgage. I still owe the credit union about 20% of the house's current value.
Regards, | | Guy

uslee2004
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Post by uslee2004 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:11 am

will be free and clear next month--accelerated payment this year despite my objection. Eventually giving in to DW's nagging.
uslee

c.Alvin
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Post by c.Alvin » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:06 am

Yes, I own my home. Once the mortgage was paid off, I was able to start a SERIOUS investment program. The entire mortgage payment and pretax dollars go into my 401k. I voluntarily reduced my standard of living and put every spare penny into my 401k and Vanguard mutual funds. It made a huge difference in a few years.
It enabled me to make big gains by purchasing at the bottom of the Great Recession when mutual fund shares were dirt cheap.

Mitchell777
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Post by Mitchell777 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:59 am

I own free and clear, but with the property tax increases over the years, I sometimes do not feel like I own it. I'm still working, so the taxes are not too bad now but I know it will look like an ever bigger number when I retire.

Beantown85
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Post by Beantown85 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 am

I own the house, but if I stop paying my mortgage, the bank will own it.

aida2003
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Post by aida2003 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:31 am

Our house is ours, free of mortgage or any other liens :P . I hope it stays that way for a while and when we want to sell and buy another house, I'd love to afford one w/out a mortgage.

scrabbler1
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Post by scrabbler1 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:11 am

I have owned my co-op apartment free and clear since 1998, 9 years after I bought the place.

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TomatoTomahto
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Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:19 am

NAVigator wrote:Citi used to own part of it, but they never helped with the cleaning, so I bought them out.

Jerry
:lol: Me too.

Although, with property taxes the way they are in NJ, maybe I'm renting but don't know it.

Dingle
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Post by Dingle » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:24 am

Yes :D

Dingle
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Post by Dingle » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:25 am

Yes :D

Dingle
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Post by Dingle » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:25 am

Yes :D

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House Blend
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Post by House Blend » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:14 am

GRT2BOUTDOORS wrote:
Sunny Sarkar wrote:
Jake46 wrote:Own our home. No mortgage. Sleep well at night.
This phase of the renting side is almost always forgotten in the rent vs own comparisons. Over a period of 35 (or M+N) years, renting means 35 (or M+N) years of increasing rental payments, while owning means 30 (or M) years of fixed mortgage payments and then 5 (or N) years FREE.
Don't forget - owning means 30 (or M) years of fixed mortgage payments + 35 years of increasing compounded property taxes and insurance payments and then 5 (or N) years FREE. :wink:

There is no free lunch.
I had a 20 year fixed rate mortgage that I paid off in a lump in year 12.

Nowadays, my taxes+insurance are about 60% of what my mortgage payment (principal+interest) used to be.

norm
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Post by norm » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:43 am

I sold my house last year and now live with my gf (her mortgage is fully paid),

c.Alvin
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Post by c.Alvin » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:06 am

norm wrote:I sold my house last year and now live with my gf (her mortgage is fully paid),
You are smarter than me.

porcupine
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Post by porcupine » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:13 am

Jake46 wrote:Own our home. No mortgage. Sleep well at night.
Don't know whether you meant this literally - I'm going to move this to a thread of its own!

- Porcupine

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runthetrails
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Post by runthetrails » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:36 pm

Paid off the mortgage this month. Feels pretty good.

deerhunter
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Post by deerhunter » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:46 pm

Paid off our mortgage 5 years ago. Owe nothing to anybody except monthly cash rewards credit cards paid on time every month.
Living off the land is a family tradition.

pete82
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Post by pete82 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:03 pm

My question should have been "do you have an ownership interest in your primary domicile?".

Regardless, this group has surpassed my expectations once again. The "free and clear" responses are aplenty. Great job to all of you!

This leads to my 2nd question. Anyone who owns their home outright (and reads this message board ;) is clearly fiscally responsible but is the decision to buy the home that you live in a clear LONG-TERM financial winner?
"What everybody else knows is not worth knowing." - Gerald M. Loeb

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TomatoTomahto
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Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:00 pm

pete82 wrote:... is the decision to buy the home that you live in a clear LONG-TERM financial winner?
My guess is that we will probably break even, but we have already lived happily in this home for 16 years, and expect to do so for another 5 years or so. At that point, my wife and I probably won't know what to do with the bedrooms that will (presumably) have been vacated by our kids to go to college.

A significant factor for us is that we have renovated twice, and done so in a way that suited our family's needs without worrying about resale value. Could we have found a similar rental? Perhaps, but not very likely, and in any case, very seldom does US residential real estate come with a 20 year lease :-)

Gill
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Post by Gill » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:24 pm

Don't you mean your primary residence? Your domicile isn't the building you live in.
Bruce

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ruralavalon
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Post by ruralavalon » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:04 pm

Owner since 1975. Free and clear since 1996. Three houses in total, one at a time.

The own vs. rent calculation will be different for individual circumstances, very different in different areas, and will always involve speculation on future maintenace costs/insurance/taxes/rental rates etc. There is no general answer to the best choice question.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

Rich Cape Cod
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Post by Rich Cape Cod » Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:11 pm

Our home is free of debt. We like the feeling. I do read the various posts debating whether to pay off the mortgage or not. I don't get into them. While it may be a financial question after all is said and done, my spouse and I have found it just "feels good" not to have to worry about paying off the home.

I did dodge a bullet when my wife wanted us to buy a second, winter home. It took some time but I eventually prevailed. The last thing I need in retirement is a second home 3,000 miles from my primary residence.


Rich
Cape Cod

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JupiterJones
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Post by JupiterJones » Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:48 pm

ElJay wrote: When I lose my job I do not want to have the anchor of a house dictating what jobs I can take.
A good point. But home ownership doesn't necessarily have to be an "anchor" with a payment so large that it dictates the job you take.

My first real estate purchase was a small, modest condo with a mortgage I could've easily covered at minimum wage if I ever lost my job. That was on purpose, because I had the same concerns as you.

JJ
Stay on target...

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bcboy57
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Post by bcboy57 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:36 pm

Own my primary 'domicile'. My secondary as well. The office building, too. All paid off about 10 years ago....

chipmonk
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Post by chipmonk » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:52 pm

Manbaerpig wrote:if the bank owns 55%, does that mean they own it if I'm paying the note?

Technically, it means they do. Is that the question posed here?

I am not a home-owner, the bank is the majority stakeholder
Well... you receive all the upside risk and almost all the downside risk to changes in your home's value. And you do whatever you want with the house, as if you already owned it outright. The only ownership-like right that the bank has is to take the house back and sell it if you stop paying them on time.

I don't think it makes sense to call the bank a majority stakeholder. If you were a company, they wouldn't own any of your equity, but only some bonds. If your home's value doubles, the bank won't get twice as much when you sell... only whatever was outstanding on your mortgage.

Your position fits my definition of "ownership." If you have a house worth about $200k and $80k outstanding on your mortgage, you're in the same boat as someone who has a $200k house, no mortgage, and $80k in credit card debt (other than the fact that the latter person has almost certainly managed their money horribly, and is getting eaten alive by interest, whereas you probably are doing fine).

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