How do you know you're ready for a promotion?

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lance8725
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How do you know you're ready for a promotion?

Post by lance8725 »

The head of the department that I work in recently pulled me aside and suggested that I apply for an management position that.
I was flattered and it sounded like a no-brainer at first: more pay, corner office, better able to make a difference, etc...but then I got to thinking about it. There are a lot more meetings, being plugged in 24/7, take on a lot more responsibility, do more paperwork, more hours, etc. Then there are the political issues of managing others who also want the job, managing people who are older, etc.

It seems that the cons might outweigh the pros. Do I have valid concerns or am I overthinking it? Is it ever a bad idea to turn down a promotion opportunity?
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norookie
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Post by norookie »

:D No thats a good assessment. The only way to make your way though, unless your your own pay check writer.
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harrychan
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Post by harrychan »

I think you are over thinking it. I had a similar opportunity 4 years ago when I was 27 to be promoted to front line manager managing my then peers who were easily double my age. I had the drive and motivation. Once I settled in, I began delegating my work and now my work load is very light. I also worked really hard to earn the respect of my subordinates and other managers. I got a big salary boost and became part of the bonus plan.

No regrets and now I am looking for a mid-manager / director position.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
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joey potsnpans
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Post by joey potsnpans »

Your concerns are valid. I was in a similar situation 3 years ago and decided to go for it. It will all work out.

The question that made my decision easier was asked by a good friend when I sought his advice.

"What side of the desk would like to be sitting on, come performance review time?"

I have never regretted earning the promotion, go for it.

Good luck.
Regards, | | Joe | | It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.- Yogi Berra
retcaveman
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Post by retcaveman »

Very wise and thoughtful analysis. There are situations where turning down a promotion can be bad. If you work in an enviornment where promotion is valued, you could be hurt. But you say you were encouraged to apply vs were offered.

Where I worked, if you turned down a promotion, it was like flipping the company and your boss the bird. If you turned down one, you could wait a very long time before another offer came along, assuming you didn't have a good reason.

While more money and status are nice, they're not worth it if you are going to be miserable. So you really do need to know yourself, understand what will be required and determine if you would like it. Maybe talk with the incumbent, get some input from current and past supervisors eg "would I be good at that?", get some input from your spouse. If you don't like dealing with messy people issues or being responsible for the work of others, you probably won't enjoy being a supervisor/manager. If you like controlling your own work and working alone on problems and assignments, you may want to pass.

Good luck.
"The wants of mortals are containers that can never be filled." (Socrates)
yobria
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Post by yobria »

I have a friend who became a manager two years ago. He recently asked for, and was granted a demotion back to a non-managerial role, for the reasons you describe.

It never hurts to give it a shot though.

Nick
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lance8725
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Post by lance8725 »

joey potsnpans wrote:Your concerns are valid. I was in a similar situation 3 years ago and decided to go for it. It will all work out.

The question that made my decision easier was asked by a good friend when I sought his advice.

"What side of the desk would like to be sitting on, come performance review time?"

I have never regretted earning the promotion, go for it.

Good luck.
Good point. :)

I guess the main issue I have is managing others who want the promotion. Some questions that have been running through my mind include: how will they react, will they be difficult to work with, etc...even if I currently have a good relationship with them.
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Post by FrugalInvestor »

You need to decide what you want both short and long-term. If you're not ready for the position, don't ask for it. Taking on additional responsibilities and performing them well involves added stress and requires hard work and enthusiasm (as you have observed). If you're not enthusiastic about the new position you are unlikely to excel at it which could do your career more harm than good.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
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lance8725
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Post by lance8725 »

retcaveman wrote:Very wise and thoughtful analysis. There are situations where turning down a promotion can be bad. If you work in an enviornment where promotion is valued, you could be hurt. But you say you were encouraged to apply vs were offered.

Where I worked, if you turned down a promotion, it was like flipping the company and your boss the bird. If you turned down one, you could wait a very long time before another offer came along, assuming you didn't have a good reason.
That's what I'm afraid of....not having another opportunity like this when I decide that I'm "ready" and wondering "what if".
retcaveman wrote:While more money and status are nice, they're not worth it if you are going to be miserable. So you really do need to know yourself, understand what will be required and determine if you would like it. Maybe talk with the incumbent, get some input from current and past supervisors eg "would I be good at that?", get some input from your spouse. If you don't like dealing with messy people issues or being responsible for the work of others, you probably won't enjoy being a supervisor/manager. If you like controlling your own work and working alone on problems and assignments, you may want to pass.
Great points! There aren't too many people to manage but I'm not sure I'd like the idea of taking the blame for somebody else's mistakes. However, I've been in that position as an individual contributor. I work together on a group project on a co-worker and have to fix (and take some of the blame) for somebody else's mistakes.
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Post by retcaveman »

lance8725 wrote:
joey potsnpans wrote:Your concerns are valid. I was in a similar situation 3 years ago and decided to go for it. It will all work out.

The question that made my decision easier was asked by a good friend when I sought his advice.

"What side of the desk would like to be sitting on, come performance review time?"

I have never regretted earning the promotion, go for it.

Good luck.
Good point. :)

I guess the main issue I have is managing others who want the promotion. Some questions that have been running through my mind include: how will they react, will they be difficult to work with, etc...even if I currently have a good relationship with them.
Unless they are very immature and unprofessional, I wouldn't think this is an issue and shouldn't be the reason you don't apply. If you get the job, you will have to deal with any adverse reaction, should it occur. In general, the way you do that is to focus on the work. As long as they do the job, let them feel however they want. But if their reaction adversely impacts the work, they you have a performance problem to address. As a new supervisor/manager this may be unpleasant, but you will need to not let it go unaddressed. If someone gets carried away and becomes openly critical, confrontational or otherwise attempts to undermine your authority, that is "insubordination" and grounds for immediate dismisssal. Good managers must be willing to deal with this stuff. If that turns you off, you may need to think twice.
Last edited by retcaveman on Wed May 04, 2011 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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joey potsnpans
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Post by joey potsnpans »

I guess the main issue I have is managing others who want the promotion. Some questions that have been running through my mind include: how will they react, will they be difficult to work with, etc...even if I currently have a good relationship with them.
Exactly how I felt. These are people I worked with, went to lunch with, and of course complained about the company and about the bosses with for several years. You cannot control or predict how people react. Once promoted I had to gradually distance myself a bit. May I recommend a book I found helpful that is available on Amazon.com

You Can't Fire Everyone: And Other Lessons from an Accidental Manager by Hank Gilman

Best of luck.
Regards, | | Joe | | It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.- Yogi Berra
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lance8725
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Post by lance8725 »

retcaveman wrote:Unless they are very immature and unprofessional, I wouldn't think this is an issue and shouldn't be the reason you don't apply. If you get the job, you will have to deal with any adverse reaction, should it occur. In general, the way you do that is to focus on the work. As long as they do the job, let them feel however they want. But if their reaction adversely impacts the work, they you have a performance problem to address. As a new supervisor/manager this may be unpleasant, but you will need to not let it go unaddressed. If someone gets carried away and becomes openly critical, confrontational or otherwise attempts to undermine your authority, that is "insubordination" and grounds for immediate dismisssal. Good managers must be willing to deal with this stuff. If that turns you off, you may need to think twice.
Hmmm that's something to think about. There are a couple employees who can act immature at times so it's definitely a possibility.
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Post by lance8725 »

joey potsnpans wrote:
I guess the main issue I have is managing others who want the promotion. Some questions that have been running through my mind include: how will they react, will they be difficult to work with, etc...even if I currently have a good relationship with them.
Exactly how I felt. These are people I worked with, went to lunch with, and of course complained about the company and about the bosses with for several years. You cannot control or predict how people react. Once promoted I had to gradually distance myself a bit. May I recommend a book I found helpful that is available on Amazon.com

You Can't Fire Everyone: And Other Lessons from an Accidental Manager by Hank Gilman

Best of luck.
Thanks for the book suggestion. Further complicating the situation is that there are some employees who were tight with the old boss so anybody new will be seen with skepticism unless one of them get the job.
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Post by retcaveman »

lance8725 wrote:
joey potsnpans wrote:
I guess the main issue I have is managing others who want the promotion. Some questions that have been running through my mind include: how will they react, will they be difficult to work with, etc...even if I currently have a good relationship with them.
Exactly how I felt. These are people I worked with, went to lunch with, and of course complained about the company and about the bosses with for several years. You cannot control or predict how people react. Once promoted I had to gradually distance myself a bit. May I recommend a book I found helpful that is available on Amazon.com

You Can't Fire Everyone: And Other Lessons from an Accidental Manager by Hank Gilman

Best of luck.
Thanks for the book suggestion. Further complicating the situation is that there are some employees who were tight with the old boss so anybody new will be seen with skepticism unless one of them get the job.
Well maybe the "fix" is in. Even if you apply, you may not get it. Of course if that's the case, it may present you with another issue ie is that a place you want to work?

Where I worked, we had this thing called a "sham posting." A manager would post the opening to appear fair and to keep HR off their backs, but knowing all along who he/she was going to give the job to. After a while, we were told that if we have someone we know we want to give the job to, we should just do it rather than damage the credibility of the posting program.
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Post by rwwoods »

Managment training is essential to any person in a management position. Check to see what training would be available to you. If your company does not provide it, will they pay for you to take ouside courses?
Training should included: leadership, deligation, employee evaluation, budgeting. Last and not least, you need to learn to play the office politics game. Read some of the major management books. Always keep your bosses happy!
"I'm not so much concerned about the return on my money as the return of my money" - Will Rogers
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Post by Hawkeye5 »

As an older friend would say, you now have an opportunity to fail.

I agree 100% that management training is needed and is one of the keys to success.

Your question is really: Am I prepared to play the role required to accomplish this goal?

Being a manager is much, much more than additional money and a nicer office. If you can't or won't make decisions that will impact people's lives without disabling yourself with regret, I suggest you re-evaluate goals.
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Post by harrychan »

great tips by rwwoods and Hawkeye5
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
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lance8725
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Post by lance8725 »

retcaveman wrote:Well maybe the "fix" is in. Even if you apply, you may not get it. Of course if that's the case, it may present you with another issue ie is that a place you want to work?

Where I worked, we had this thing called a "sham posting." A manager would post the opening to appear fair and to keep HR off their backs, but knowing all along who he/she was going to give the job to. After a while, we were told that if we have someone we know we want to give the job to, we should just do it rather than damage the credibility of the posting program.
Hmmm that could be the case. One of the other employees has assumed some management responsibilities already...and seems excited about getting the job. Maybe I was encouraged to apply so it looks like he wasn't the only candidate? He seems like a decent person to work for, and I get along with him well, so I don't know if I want to rock the boat and throw my hat in so to speak. Then again, maybe he disappointed them in some way during his "trial run" and they want to see some alternatives. It's difficult to tell.

There is another person who is qualified for the position (probably the most qualified) but she has personal issues with upper management and isn't even going to apply. She likes to do things her way and I'm not sure I want to get in the middle of that one.

On the surface it seems like a good opportunity but there are a lot of potential headaches. Yet I wonder if I wouldn't be "offending" upper management in some way by not applying...when they invest in an employee for years, they would expect some interest in advancement and that's understandable. I was told they don't want to lose me though so maybe this is their way of trying to keep me around.
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Post by lance8725 »

rwwoods wrote:Managment training is essential to any person in a management position. Check to see what training would be available to you. If your company does not provide it, will they pay for you to take ouside courses?
Training should included: leadership, deligation, employee evaluation, budgeting. Last and not least, you need to learn to play the office politics game. Read some of the major management books. Always keep your bosses happy!
They might be willing to pay for an MBA.
That makes sense about having to keep bosses happy and it's also challenging to keep employees happy at the same time esp in this case. Employee morale is pretty low right now due to lay offs that have occured during the recession and everyone has seen their responsibilities increase.
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Post by lance8725 »

Hawkeye5 wrote:As an older friend would say, you now have an opportunity to fail.

I agree 100% that management training is needed and is one of the keys to success.

Your question is really: Am I prepared to play the role required to accomplish this goal?

Being a manager is much, much more than additional money and a nicer office. If you can't or won't make decisions that will impact people's lives without disabling yourself with regret, I suggest you re-evaluate goals.
That is true. It seemed like a no brainer to apply until I started thinking it more.

Pros: There would be more pay, status, corner office, and the ability to make a difference.

Cons: Being in the middle of feuding employees, dealing with attitude from the others who wanted the job but did not get it, more hours/having to be plugged in 24/7, lots of meetings, much more responsibility, more paperwork, having to hire/fire, politics with upper management, being blamed for others mistakes, abstract goals instead of concrete goals.

With that being said, I'd hate to see a "bad boss" hired which could have a negative impact on all of us.
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Post by Default User BR »

It greatly depends on what you want to do. I have no interest at all in managing other employees. I'm happy being what I a "grunt engineer". In my case, writing code and making stuff work. Don't get me wrong, I'd like more money.



Brian
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Post by FrugalInvestor »

lance8725 wrote:
Hawkeye5 wrote:As an older friend would say, you now have an opportunity to fail.

I agree 100% that management training is needed and is one of the keys to success.

Your question is really: Am I prepared to play the role required to accomplish this goal?

Being a manager is much, much more than additional money and a nicer office. If you can't or won't make decisions that will impact people's lives without disabling yourself with regret, I suggest you re-evaluate goals.
That is true. It seemed like a no brainer to apply until I started thinking it more.

Pros: There would be more pay, status, corner office, and the ability to make a difference.

Cons: Being in the middle of feuding employees, dealing with attitude from the others who wanted the job but did not get it, more hours/having to be plugged in 24/7, lots of meetings, much more responsibility, more paperwork, having to hire/fire, politics with upper management, being blamed for others mistakes, abstract goals instead of concrete goals.

With that being said, I'd hate to see a "bad boss" hired which could have a negative impact on all of us.

You do not take a management job because of who else might be hired. You take the job because you are ready for the challenge and feel that you can do the job well.

Comparing your lists of pros and cons and the nature of the items on them, I'd say that you are not ready. Don't forget that you could be that "bad boss."
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify, but most importantly....Ignore the Noise!
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Post by ann_l »

It seems that the cons might outweigh the pros. Do I have valid concerns or am I overthinking it? Yes, you have valid concerns. I'm actually not impressed with your list of "pros"-a better office? More pay? That's great, but if you go from liking your job to hating your job, it's not worth it.

Is it ever a bad idea to turn down a promotion opportunity? Yes, when you won't like the job you get. It's not a promotion if it makes you hate what you do for most of your waking hours.

But I will say I won't worry whether you feel "ready" for the job or not. If the people who will promote you think you're ready, then you're ready.
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Post by lance8725 »

Default User BR wrote:It greatly depends on what you want to do. I have no interest at all in managing other employees. I'm happy being what I a "grunt engineer". In my case, writing code and making stuff work. Don't get me wrong, I'd like more money.



Brian
Unfortunately most companies do not have technical tracks for advancement and being in management is required in order to advance.
SP-diceman
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Post by SP-diceman »

I’ve always embraced change and new positions.
This is why folks get higher pay.

In theory you should be able to fix problems
by leading/management.
I always thought the fact that I was now the boss
of someone I used to work with, worked to my advantage.
( I know where your coming from, I was there)

With current high unemployment, there could be worse problems.

Thanks
SP-diceman
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Post by retcaveman »

lance8725 wrote:
retcaveman wrote:Well maybe the "fix" is in. Even if you apply, you may not get it. Of course if that's the case, it may present you with another issue ie is that a place you want to work?

Where I worked, we had this thing called a "sham posting." A manager would post the opening to appear fair and to keep HR off their backs, but knowing all along who he/she was going to give the job to. After a while, we were told that if we have someone we know we want to give the job to, we should just do it rather than damage the credibility of the posting program.
Hmmm that could be the case. One of the other employees has assumed some management responsibilities already...and seems excited about getting the job. Maybe I was encouraged to apply so it looks like he wasn't the only candidate? He seems like a decent person to work for, and I get along with him well, so I don't know if I want to rock the boat and throw my hat in so to speak. Then again, maybe he disappointed them in some way during his "trial run" and they want to see some alternatives. It's difficult to tell.

There is another person who is qualified for the position (probably the most qualified) but she has personal issues with upper management and isn't even going to apply. She likes to do things her way and I'm not sure I want to get in the middle of that one.

On the surface it seems like a good opportunity but there are a lot of potential headaches. Yet I wonder if I wouldn't be "offending" upper management in some way by not applying...when they invest in an employee for years, they would expect some interest in advancement and that's understandable. I was told they don't want to lose me though so maybe this is their way of trying to keep me around.
Could you have a heart-to-heart with the supervisor who invited you to apply for the position? What was his/her thinking? Can they provide a little insight to the issue re your perceived heir apparent?

It is quite natural to feel a little apprehension about taking on a new assignment. I would try to understand whether you as a person, are interested in the challenges this position offers eg are you a people person or an individual contributor?. If you conclude it isn't you, then skip it. But if it appeals to you, but you are just a little apprehensive about something new, I'd give it a shot. Either way, you will learn a little more about the way you are viewed. And the experience of interviewing is always good. Going for it, even if you don't succeed in this attempt, will send a message to management that you are interested in advancing your career and my bring your experience to the attention to people who might not have been aware. It could cue you up for a future opportunity. What I am saying is, there are probably several different levels at which you can play this beyond the most obvious associated with this particular position.

Again, best wishes.
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Post by jmbkb4 »

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Post by rwwoods »

Lance, one of the things first line managers do is to represent the company management. As an employee you could bitch to each other about the company. You can't do that when you are a manager (except to other managers). You will be the management spokesman when interfacing with your subordinates. That can be tough to do sometimes, especially when you don't agree with the policy.
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Post by lance8725 »

rwwoods wrote:Lance, one of the things first line managers do is to represent the company management. As an employee you could bitch to each other about the company. You can't do that when you are a manager (except to other managers). You will be the management spokesman when interfacing with your subordinates. That can be tough to do sometimes, especially when you don't agree with the policy.
You can...my old boss did, but that's probably why he's no longer there.
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Post by lance8725 »

ann_l wrote:It seems that the cons might outweigh the pros. Do I have valid concerns or am I overthinking it? Yes, you have valid concerns. I'm actually not impressed with your list of "pros"-a better office? More pay? That's great, but if you go from liking your job to hating your job, it's not worth it.
I agree...that's what I'm afraid of. Take the promotion and there's no turning back unless I leave the company.
ann_l wrote:But I will say I won't worry whether you feel "ready" for the job or not. If the people who will promote you think you're ready, then you're ready.
True....the people under me might not think I'm ready but that's another story.
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Post by lance8725 »

retcaveman wrote:Could you have a heart-to-heart with the supervisor who invited you to apply for the position? What was his/her thinking? Can they provide a little insight to the issue re your perceived heir apparent?
Not a bad idea. I'm guessing that they see me as a top peformer and want me to help develop the staff and/or find new talent to make the department stronger. The dept head isn't really familiar with the work that we do so he needs somebody that he can trust with that understanding. Also he has some differences with a couple of the employees (very valuable employees btw) who I get along with so maybe he's looking for someone to bridge the gap so to speak.
retcaveman wrote:It is quite natural to feel a little apprehension about taking on a new assignment. I would try to understand whether you as a person, are interested in the challenges this position offers eg are you a people person or an individual contributor?.
Both. I have excellent people skills (which is probably why they are pushing me in this direction) but I prefer doing the actual work if that makes any sense.
If you conclude it isn't you, then skip it. But if it appeals to you, but you are just a little apprehensive about something new, I'd give it a shot. Either way, you will learn a little more about the way you are viewed. And the experience of interviewing is always good. Going for it, even if you don't succeed in this attempt, will send a message to management that you are interested in advancing your career and my bring your experience to the attention to people who might not have been aware. It could cue you up for a future opportunity. What I am saying is, there are probably several different levels at which you can play this beyond the most obvious associated with this particular position.
I guess it wouldn't hurt to apply. But let's say they offered it to me and I turned it down? Would that be worse than not applying at all? I could see a situation where they only offer to give me a small pay bump...and I'm not sure it's worth it if that is the case.
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Post by HomerJ »

harrychan wrote:I think you are over thinking it. I had a similar opportunity 4 years ago when I was 27 to be promoted to front line manager managing my then peers who were easily double my age. I had the drive and motivation. Once I settled in, I began delegating my work and now my work load is very light. I also worked really hard to earn the respect of my subordinates and other managers. I got a big salary boost and became part of the bonus plan.

No regrets and now I am looking for a mid-manager / director position.
Heh, I knew it! You get paid more and you delegate out all the real work...

I have no idea how this system came into place where the people who do all the real work get paid the least...

(Spoken from the grunt level).

I'm in my 40s, and I've never aspired to be a manager... But I'm in IT, where the line workers can and do make very good money without being managers... I've never wanted to deal with the politics, and I make enough money to meet all my goals... Also, in IT, it's not like I've been doing the same work for the last 20 years... Change is constant.

I could be probably making double what I make today as a IT director/VP, but I don't know if I would be happier...

It all depends on what you do now... Do you really enjoy your current job? Is it possible to make good money without management promotions?

It would suggest going for it... I don't have any first-hand experience... It might a very rewarding career path. You should at least give it a chance.
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Post by retcaveman »

[/quote]
I guess it wouldn't hurt to apply. But let's say they offered it to me and I turned it down? Would that be worse than not applying at all? I could see a situation where they only offer to give me a small pay bump...and I'm not sure it's worth it if that is the case.[/quote]

While I don't know your work environment, I wouldn't think they would be too pleased to have you turn down the job if it were offered, especially if you had applied for it. I have had some employees ask to meet with me to learn more about a vacancy I was trying to fill before they applied for it. It actually is a good tactic for putting yourself in front of the boss to see how they react to you. You might inquire in such a meeting about the pay range. Even if you decide not to apply, you showed initiative and made them aware of your interest and qualifications.
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Post by Christine_NM »

lance -

From what I've seen, you should consider this your one shot at advancement in this company. Say no, and it's forever grunt level. Spend too much time at grunt level and it may even diminish your chances at another company.

Sorry if this is an inconvenient time for you, but this is when they want you. I say take it. If it doesn't work out they'll be glad to demote you.
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Post by lance8725 »

rrosenkoetter wrote:Heh, I knew it! You get paid more and you delegate out all the real work...

I have no idea how this system came into place where the people who do all the real work get paid the least...

(Spoken from the grunt level).

I'm in my 40s, and I've never aspired to be a manager... But I'm in IT, where the line workers can and do make very good money without being managers... I've never wanted to deal with the politics, and I make enough money to meet all my goals... Also, in IT, it's not like I've been doing the same work for the last 20 years... Change is constant.
The one bad thing about IT is ageism (at least from what I've heard). I've heard that one should be in management or consulting after so many years of experience. Good to see you've proven that wrong.
rrosenkoetter wrote:I could be probably making double what I make today as a IT director/VP, but I don't know if I would be happier...

It all depends on what you do now... Do you really enjoy your current job? Is it possible to make good money without management promotions?
Nope. Where I'm at, you have to get into management to move up.
rrosenkoetter wrote:It would suggest going for it... I don't have any first-hand experience... It might a very rewarding career path. You should at least give it a chance.
Yeah I might... beats having a bad manager (which I know from experience can be very stressful).
Topic Author
lance8725
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:56 am

Post by lance8725 »

Christine_NM wrote:lance -

From what I've seen, you should consider this your one shot at advancement in this company. Say no, and it's forever grunt level. Spend too much time at grunt level and it may even diminish your chances at another company.

Sorry if this is an inconvenient time for you, but this is when they want you. I say take it. If it doesn't work out they'll be glad to demote you.
Good point! As stressful as the job might be, I don't want to lack back in regret at "what could have been" especially if we end up getting a bad manager.
ClubberLang
Posts: 86
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:53 am

Post by ClubberLang »

lance8725 wrote:Good point! As stressful as the job might be, I don't want to lack back in regret at "what could have been" especially if we end up getting a bad manager.
Be careful. Some people take on a management role, thinking it will put them in a more secure and stable position, only to find out that the grass really isn't greener, and now you've got more work to do. Even if you get a raise by making the move, often times calculating it out to an hourly rate when you consider actual hours worked, it is a pay reduction in that aspect. Who wants to work harder and longer for less money? Going the management route is all about living to work.

Those that aspire to be managers envision more money, more power. Fact is, in today's flattened hierarchy, managers may not get much more of either. They may, however, get more job insecurity--managers are eminently downsizeable. They're often caught between upper management demanding projects done yesterday and workers resenting their cracking the whip. Plus, the techincal training dries up at the management level because you have to focus more on the "soft" skills.

Management can be soul crushing. You get blamed for all the failures, while you're employees get praise for all the successes.

If you lose your job, it could be more difficult to find another management job as opposed to a job as an individual contributor.

Just a few things to think about.
Topic Author
lance8725
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:56 am

Post by lance8725 »

ClubberLang wrote:Be careful. Some people take on a management role, thinking it will put them in a more secure and stable position, only to find out that the grass really isn't greener, and now you've got more work to do. Even if you get a raise by making the move, often times calculating it out to an hourly rate when you consider actual hours worked, it is a pay reduction in that aspect. Who wants to work harder and longer for less money? Going the management route is all about living to work.
Paid less per hour? Is this common?
ClubberLang wrote:Those that aspire to be managers envision more money, more power. Fact is, in today's flattened hierarchy, managers may not get much more of either. They may, however, get more job insecurity--managers are eminently downsizeable.
Well I have to say that I am a little concerned about this because there would not be many direct reports under me.
filmtheory
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 10:19 am

Post by filmtheory »

I like going to work every day; I like my job. A "promotion" loomed in which I would be taking more of my work home with me, would be getting more telephone calls, would be going to more meetings, etc. I passed. The money wasn't worth the time.
Topic Author
lance8725
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:56 am

Post by lance8725 »

filmtheory wrote:I like going to work every day; I like my job. A "promotion" loomed in which I would be taking more of my work home with me, would be getting more telephone calls, would be going to more meetings, etc. I passed. The money wasn't worth the time.
That's one of my main concerns....being paid less per hour when add of the hours are added up.
marylandcrab
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:51 am

Post by marylandcrab »

I'll talk to you from a business owners perspective.

Just because you are a good worker, doesn't mean you'll be a good manager. Have you heard of the peter principle? Being promoted to the level of your incompetence? Don't let that happen to you. Start now by reading some management books and start learning what managers do - it isn't telling people what to do and going to meetings.

What is the difference at your organization between what the manager does and what you currently do? At my company the managers manage the work flow, solve the higher level problems, worry more about cash flow and business cycles. They do the hiring and terminations, review employees and policies and procedures. I have 3 different managers - one inside administrator - two outside managers. Employees are by far the biggest headache in running a business.

I have offered promotions to people who didn't take them. One of them wanted to stay as the delivery person, and he turned down every single opportunity to increase his responsibilities. Now, 5 years in he's earned cost of living increases in his salary. But, he lives a small unambitious life and is happy with that and I'm happy to have such a reliable employee. No harm no foul. But he won't be offered anything again.

If your biggest concern is your dollar per hour salary as manager, you are clearly thinking only of yourself and the short term. I'd suggest that kind of thinking is not "team" thinking, nor will that be the kind of person who survives in management. You'd have to be interested in the company's well being at times above yourself or your interests. You have to not be a clock watcher. If you want to only work what you work now, you probably won't make the people above you happy. Now, I don't want my managers working a million hours a week, but they do work more than the employees below them, but they have way more flexibility. My managers all love what they do and focus their time making things better for their employees.

We promoted our administrator a few months ago. Another person, who was a billing manager did not like this person, made everyone miserable, couldn't get over herself and is now no longer part of our organization. She eliminated herself by her inability to accept the new dynamic that actually benefited her and she didn't even want that position. So sometimes shifts in the power structure will bring out the worst in people. We had others step up to new roles, feel empowered and things are much better for them now.
mithrandir
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Location: US

Post by mithrandir »

lance8725 wrote:
ClubberLang wrote:Be careful. Some people take on a management role, thinking it will put them in a more secure and stable position, only to find out that the grass really isn't greener, and now you've got more work to do. Even if you get a raise by making the move, often times calculating it out to an hourly rate when you consider actual hours worked, it is a pay reduction in that aspect. Who wants to work harder and longer for less money? Going the management route is all about living to work.
Paid less per hour? Is this common?
Of course. When you are in management you are expected to do whatever it takes to get the job done. And anecdotally that means working many more hours than if you are just a staffer.

On average the pay increase for becoming a manager will be smaller than the increased working hours. It's not like you will be IN the office 60 hours vs 40, but they'll give you the BlackBerry and you'll be checking emails nights and weekends. You won't be able to shut off the job.

Of course there are some who like the management role. And that's fine because if there's one thing we need in the business world it's better managers who like what they do. But don't go with the promotion with the idea that you're getting "paid more".
mithrandir
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Location: US

Post by mithrandir »

joey potsnpans wrote: The question that made my decision easier was asked by a good friend when I sought his advice.

"What side of the desk would like to be sitting on, come performance review time?"
Hold on now. It's a two way street. No matter who you are, you report to someone else. There's ALWAYS going to be someone on the "other side of the desk". Even the CEO reports to somebody, even if it is not a single "body".
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