Another cheap computer question

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epilnk
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Another cheap computer question

Post by epilnk » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:27 pm

I was planning to install windows XP pro on my dual core macbook so I can run sas. But I hadn't figured on the exorbinant cost of win xp pro ($280). A computer guy suggested it would be cheaper to buy a used machine that came with XP pro, as long as it came with the systems disks. Unfortunately I've never actually looked closely at windows hardware, I can't evaluate these machines.

So what's the cheapest windows machine I can buy that still has a reasonable amount of processor capacity? I need a machine that can 1) run SAS, 2) print, and 3) . . . ok, I can't think of a 3. I can live with running sas on a second machine, but don't have a lot of extra space to devote to a desktop machine, so it would have to be a laptop.

I have considered linux but I can get sas for free for a windows platform.

Linda

slushpuppie
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Post by slushpuppie » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:45 pm

May I recommend you look for an OEM copy of XP?

Basically, OEM XP (Original Equipment Manufacturer, which is sort of a misnomer) would be a legitimate copy of the software without any official support from Microsoft. Check New Egg, or just Google it-- You'll be able to find it for at least $100 off retail.

I don't think you could do better trying to find a laptop for $130.

-slush_pup

epilnk
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Post by epilnk » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:51 pm

slushpuppie wrote:May I recommend you look for an OEM copy of XP?

Basically, OEM XP (Original Equipment Manufacturer, which is sort of a misnomer) would be a legitimate copy of the software without any official support from Microsoft. Check New Egg, or just Google it-- You'll be able to find it for at least $100 off retail.

I don't think you could do better trying to find a laptop for $130.

-slush_pup
I was told to avoid OEM, that it would not install on a mac. Is that not true?

Linda

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stratton
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Post by stratton » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:51 pm

slushpuppie wrote:May I recommend you look for an OEM copy of XP?

Basically, OEM XP (Original Equipment Manufacturer, which is sort of a misnomer) would be a legitimate copy of the software without any official support from Microsoft. Check New Egg, or just Google it-- You'll be able to find it for at least $100 off retail.
You might be required to buy a $5 piece of hardware to "qualify" for the OEM version.

Paul

slushpuppie
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Post by slushpuppie » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:18 pm

Linda, I've never owned a Mac; So, I've obviously never played around with installing Windows on one. However, a quick google of "OEM windows mac" didn't turn up anything alarming. With the dedicated Apple fanbase, I would think that an issue like that would brew some hate. Obviously, YMMV; But, as far as I know (and I'm running my OEM Windows now), an OEM disc is no different than the disc that goes into retail. The only difference is packaging and warranty.

I mock-bought XP Pro at New Egg just now and it didn't make me buy $5 worth of hardware. Shipping was $4.99 though, so that may not be so incoincidental in light of Paul's comment.

-slushy mcpup

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stratton
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Post by stratton » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:23 pm

slushpuppie wrote:I mock-bought XP Pro at New Egg just now and it didn't make me buy $5 worth of hardware. Shipping was $4.99 though, so that may not be so incoincidental in light of Paul's comment.
That's interesting. Maybe they even removed that limit. It used to be back in NT4/Win95 days you had to buy a motherboard or hard drive that cost like 90 or $100. Last I heard you had to have a $5 part to qualify for hardware. Guess thats gone for XP anyway.

Paul

Target2019
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Post by Target2019 » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:24 pm

epilnk wrote:
slushpuppie wrote:May I recommend you look for an OEM copy of XP?

Basically, OEM XP (Original Equipment Manufacturer, which is sort of a misnomer) would be a legitimate copy of the software without any official support from Microsoft. Check New Egg, or just Google it-- You'll be able to find it for at least $100 off retail.

I don't think you could do better trying to find a laptop for $130.

-slush_pup
I was told to avoid OEM, that it would not install on a mac. Is that not true?

Linda
why XP Pro?

epilnk
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Post by epilnk » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:08 pm

Target2019 wrote:
epilnk wrote:
slushpuppie wrote:May I recommend you look for an OEM copy of XP?

Basically, OEM XP (Original Equipment Manufacturer, which is sort of a misnomer) would be a legitimate copy of the software without any official support from Microsoft. Check New Egg, or just Google it-- You'll be able to find it for at least $100 off retail.

I don't think you could do better trying to find a laptop for $130.

-slush_pup
I was told to avoid OEM, that it would not install on a mac. Is that not true?

Linda
why XP Pro?
SAS doesn't like most other versions of windows, including XP home. I won't put vista on my macbook. I don't think I can get a SAS copy that runs on linux. It will run on NT, though it's been so long since I've seen that I don't remember much about it.

Linda

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CavalierBob
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Post by CavalierBob » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:58 pm

epilnk wrote:
I was told to avoid OEM, that it would not install on a mac. Is that not true?

Linda
A quick Google search seems to indicate that an OEM version of XP Pro will install fine: LINK

Looks like an OEM copy of XP Pro is at NewEgg: LINK

I threw XP Pro into a cart to see if it would take without any hardware and it worked. Looks like you should be able to purchase it by itself just fine.

Bob

Valuethinker
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Post by Valuethinker » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:31 am

epilnk wrote:
Target2019 wrote:
epilnk wrote:
slushpuppie wrote:May
why XP Pro?
SAS doesn't like most other versions of windows, including XP home. I won't put vista on my macbook. I don't think I can get a SAS copy that runs on linux. It will run on NT, though it's been so long since I've seen that I don't remember much about it.

Linda
Your logic is impeccable:

- avoid Vista for as long as possible (no telling if SAS runs on it, anyways)
- XP pro is (for microsoft) a relatively robust, stable and secure operating system -- of course they are phasing it out!

I loved SAS, by the way. Almost as much as I loved @RISK ;-) ;-).

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modal
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Post by modal » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:05 am

For personal use, I ended up purchasing the retail version of Windows XP Professional (NOT the OEM, OEM upgrade, or Retail upgrade) because of the licensing terms. It set me back around $250.

Newegg Retail link

Valuethinker
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Post by Valuethinker » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:11 am

modal wrote:For personal use, I ended up purchasing the retail version of Windows XP Professional (NOT the OEM, OEM upgrade, or Retail upgrade) because of the licensing terms. It set me back around $250.

Newegg Retail link
MS are stopping shipping OEM Windows XP (as pre installed by manufacturers on computers) as of January 1st, I believe.

I would presume the date when they stop shipping Windows XP altogether is not far behind?

Forced migration onto Vista is a great revenue generating strategy for them. Although to be fair, they have kept supporting Win98, which amazes me.

epilnk
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Post by epilnk » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:21 pm

modal wrote:For personal use, I ended up purchasing the retail version of Windows XP Professional (NOT the OEM, OEM upgrade, or Retail upgrade) because of the licensing terms. It set me back around $250.

Newegg Retail link
What was it about the licensing terms that was worth $100, in your opinion? I've never been in an arm-wrestling match with MS, so I'm not familiar with the issues.

Linda

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CavalierBob
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Post by CavalierBob » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:10 pm

epilnk wrote: What was it about the licensing terms that was worth $100, in your opinion? I've never been in an arm-wrestling match with MS, so I'm not familiar with the issues.

Linda
I think this is it:
There are two types of licenses for XP that consumers will encounter, retail (aka full packaged product), and OEM (original equipment manufacturer).

Retail licenses may be moved from one computer to another, as long as the license is activated on one computer at a time and as long as the previous installation of the license is removed from the previously licensed computer.

OEM licenses for XP are tied to the first computer onto which they are installed and the license is NOT permitted to be moved to any other computer. For the purposes of defining what a computer is, since a computer is really just a collection of parts, Microsoft has established that the motherboard is the base or "defining" component, and the OEM license is permanently tied to the motherboard. Note that if the computer owner decides to replace the motherboard for performance reasons or to add features or new technology, the defective exception is NOT applicable and a new license for XP is required to be purchased.
See here for the entire thread on this topic.

FWIW, I've installed my OEM copy of XP Pro on 2 computers I have built myself (2nd was a replacement for the 1st one). I had no problem activating the OEM copy a 2nd time on a different computer. Of course, YMMV.

Bob

baldeagle
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Post by baldeagle » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:57 pm

Valuethinker, MS stopped supporting Win98. I think it was around June of this year.

I agree with you about Vista. I just bought an AMD Athlon 3800 based Compaq for my wife with Vista Basic. Soooooooooo slow. Unusably slow. I rebuilt it with XP home and it is a beauty. I think XP may be the peak of MS's OS accomplishments for the home environment.

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