If you had a choice, would you still live in the USA?

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VictoriaF
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Post by VictoriaF » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:28 pm

halfnine wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
halfnine wrote:Setting up my lawn chair.
Where is your lawn? Is it greener? :mrgreen:

Victoria
ones lawn is only greener if one takes the time and effort to maintain it, otherwise its just as brown as the rest
A fantastic metaphor!

Victoria
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Peter Foley
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Post by Peter Foley » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:40 pm

I've traveled (and studied) for extended periods of time in Spain, Mexico and France. Great places to visit, but I do not care to live there. The smoking in public places drives me nuts. Italy is also an interesting country to visit but not to live . . . did I mention the smoking? :(

Living in Minnesota there are only a couple months of the year that are intolerable. OK, maybe 5. :wink:

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rustymutt
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Post by rustymutt » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:53 pm

Because we live in the USA, we have free choice as to where we want to live. Why are you obsessed with where people want to live. Happy people are happy wherever they are, and unhappy people will still be unhappy living elsewhere.
I'm amazed at the wealth of Knowledge others gather, and share over a lifetime of learning. The mind is truly unique. It's nice when we use it!

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Post by shoetrip » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:19 pm

rustymutt wrote:Because we live in the USA, we have free choice as to where we want to live. Why are you obsessed with where people want to live. Happy people are happy wherever they are, and unhappy people will still be unhappy living elsewhere.

That's not true, sounds good but not true at all. I know some Co-ops in NYC that will turn you down for any number of subjective reasons and neighborhoods in certain places that u can't buy into because the community will make u feel very unwelcome and prevent a home being sold to u if u don;t 'fit'.
Moving to places you would like to live is not a purely American right, European Union citizens can live, work and travel anywhere in EU member countries.

I do agree with ur happiness comment.

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Post by Sidney » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:20 pm

Peter Foley wrote:I've traveled (and studied) for extended periods of time in Spain, Mexico and France. Great places to visit, but I do not care to live there. The smoking in public places drives me nuts. Italy is also an interesting country to visit but not to live . . . did I mention the smoking? :(

Living in Minnesota there are only a couple months of the year that are intolerable. OK, maybe 5. :wink:
Are you including mosquito season and the floods in spring or just the bone chilling cold months?
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.

shoetrip
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Post by shoetrip » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:26 pm

I also notice many 'patriots' here keep touting the "freedom" as if it is some all encompassing term. You are only as free in a society as the laws allow you to be.

Here is a test of "freedom" try tangling with the IRS and see how free u really are. They have the right to seize your assets, freeze your accounts and do innumerable procedures to make your life difficult. . .all before you even get the opportunity to to defend yourself using the legal system.
Happened to a friend of mine over a identity theft situation and it took a couple of years to fix completely.

he was "free" to fight them and provide proof of their scew up after they made his life hell.

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Polar_Ice
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Post by Polar_Ice » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:29 pm

In my own life I have lived in another country and visited many but have found who you live with not where you live to be more important to myself.

The question on where is the best place to live yourself depends on your values, priorities, and interest. Each country has drawbacks.

There are many other countries I would live but I wouldn't say any of them are better than the other just different.

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Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:36 pm

I didn't even bother reading all of the replies....unequivocably, Hell YES!!!!
Where did this question come from? If you are questioning living here......please go........

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Re: Isn't it Great to be an American!

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:37 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
If you had a choice, would you still live in the USA?
At the beginning of World War II, we renamed our boat, "Isn't it Great to be an American!"

Since then, I have circled the globe three times and I have never visited a country where I would rather live than right here in the USA where I was lucky to be born.
+1 - fifty million times over! :D

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Post by retcaveman » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:42 pm

Yes. It's our home.
"The wants of mortals are containers that can never be filled." (Socrates)

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scubadiver
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Post by scubadiver » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:47 pm

I was born in this country to a family that was solidly in the bottom 10-15% in terms of household income. My wife's parents emigrated to the US when she was 8 with only $50 and the clothes on their backs. Years later, both of us were able to obtain college educations from great universities and today my wife is a stay at home mom and we are solidly in the upper 10-15% of household incomes.

Is this the best country? That's very subjective and admittedly there are a number of European countries that could make a claim. The U.S. has been pretty damn good to me though and for that I will always be grateful. We are far from a perfect country, but I'm going to stick around and do my part to make it better.

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scubadiver
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Post by scubadiver » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:52 pm

If Steven Colbert were following this thread, I suspect he would ask the following: Is the U.S. a good country or is it the greatest country? :)

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Post by Latecomer » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:20 pm

After visiting Brazil in 2004, I still remember the incredible feeling I got when the customs guy said, "Welcome home."

There is something to be said about staying in the place that literally fed you when growing up (e.g. garden), the language that gifted you with the ability to communicate in this particular way, and the people who loved you throughout your growth.

I think that this is a universal feeling, unless people are torn by tragic circumstances. The problem seems to be, for whatever reason, the inability to put down roots.

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Post by statsguy » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:23 pm

We lived for a year in New Zealand and six months each in Singapore and Greece. We have spent extended vacations (at least a month) in Greece, Finland, Australia, and Indonesia.

What I have learned is there are many hardworking friendly people all over the world. They want what we have a nice home, family, and work to get that life. The US is in many ways the best... nevertheless we have carefully looked overseas as a place to retire.

I love New Zealand as others have said... the weather is beautiful. I particularly like the area north of Auckland. It is extremely inexpensive to live in NZ, vacations to Australia are reasonably priced, and for an island there is plenty to do. One thing I don't like is that an auto is pretty much required and I prefer the walking atmosphere of European ciites. Also, it is just too far away and too expensive to visit the US. We plan, where ever we are to make probably, two trips a year to visit our kids. The national healthcare in NZ is a positive for general things but for major surgery it is a negative (my opinion).

I like Australia too... and my comments on Australia are similar to NZ. Never been to western Australia but have been up and down the east coast. It would be a diffiuclt choice between Brisbane, Sidney, Canberra, or Melbourne... probably would choose Sydney because it is more of an international city. There is Cairns but we don't want to retire to a tourist destination.

I love Singapore but do not want to retire there. It is crowded and well out of our means to get a large lot (say a hectare) with a single story house. But Singapore has much to offer... while really hot and humid much of the year it is also a walking city, English is spoken everywhere, and it is relatively cheap to live there outside of housing.

Absolutely loved Finland... but it is too far north. Spent the summer and fall there and then had to leave when the temperatures dropped and everyone started getting our their ice skates and skis for transportation. Basically Finland is a very cold New Zealand. Kind of like living in the US in the 1960's.

We have been looking at Spain, France, and Italy along the Mediterranean. I like many of the islands but statsgal prefers the countryside of France and Spain. I retire this summer and we plan to spend six months in Amsterdam. I think it is too far north and maybe a bit too expensive but that is our plan.

At the end of the day, we will likely end up in the good old US of A.

Stats

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Post by Hedonic Regression » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:57 pm

shoetrip wrote:I also notice many 'patriots' here keep touting the "freedom" as if it is some all encompassing term. You are only as free in a society as the laws allow you to be.
I can certainly say I feel like I'm living in a free society boarding a plane just about anywhere outside the U.S. (and not destined for the U.S., of course). :roll:

I wish I could get a bit more long-term travel in my life, but I don't ever think I'd want stay away so long that I don't feel 'American'. There are tastes and sensibilities I love in many cultures, but there are few cities in the world that has them all living side-by-side like American cities can.
Even in Italy you sometimes wish you could get your hands on some good Thai food.

shoetrip
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Post by shoetrip » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:16 am

Latecomer wrote:After visiting Brazil in 2004, I still remember the incredible feeling I got when the customs guy said, "Welcome home."

There is something to be said about staying in the place that literally fed you when growing up (e.g. garden), the language that gifted you with the ability to communicate in this particular way, and the people who loved you throughout your growth.

I think that this is a universal feeling, unless people are torn by tragic circumstances. The problem seems to be, for whatever reason, the inability to put down roots.

HAHA! I remember coming home from Brazil and being pulled to the side by customs and searched and swabbed for drugs.

Coming back from London on a 24hr turnaround and customs pulled me to the side again and searched me because they couldn't possibly comprehend why someone would fly to London and come back so quickly; odd given in their little database they can see that I had a history of flying over 100k miles internationally for a couple of years. How about searching the college kids that look like their hopped up on Ex instead of a guy with a suit traveling for business?

Welcome home citizen! Please mind us searching you for drugs because of some profiling nonsense

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Post by shoetrip » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:18 am

Hedonic Regression wrote:
shoetrip wrote:I also notice many 'patriots' here keep touting the "freedom" as if it is some all encompassing term. You are only as free in a society as the laws allow you to be.
I can certainly say I feel like I'm living in a free society boarding a plane just about anywhere outside the U.S. (and not destined for the U.S., of course). :roll:

I wish I could get a bit more long-term travel in my life, but I don't ever think I'd want stay away so long that I don't feel 'American'. There are tastes and sensibilities I love in many cultures, but there are few cities in the world that has them all living side-by-side like American cities can.
Even in Italy you sometimes wish you could get your hands on some good Thai food.
Thats why I think NYC is the greatest city in the world.

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Post by bagle » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:03 am

Peter Foley wrote:I've traveled (and studied) for extended periods of time in Spain, Mexico and France. Great places to visit, but I do not care to live there. The smoking in public places drives me nuts. Italy is also an interesting country to visit but not to live . . . did I mention the smoking? :(
Smoking, which also drive me nuts, has been prohibited since Jan. 2 in all enclosed areas in Spain. So, at least one can finally enjoy tasty spanish food.

I suffer from home bias, like any American. But, I´ve also lived abroad during a large part of my life. Except for red tape in launching a new business, one can find the same degree of democratic freedom in any core European country (notwithstanding their mid 20th century descents into totalitarian hell).

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VictoriaF
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Post by VictoriaF » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:55 am

An interesting parallel between:
fundtalker123 wrote:Yeah, where else does every town have a mcdonalds, taco bell, walmart, walgreens, home depot, and exxon station. Nice to know you can always get everything you need.
and
Hedonic Regression wrote:There are tastes and sensibilities I love in many cultures, but there are few cities in the world that has them all living side-by-side like American cities can. Even in Italy you sometimes wish you could get your hands on some good Thai food.
:lol:

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Post by 3CT_Paddler » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:32 am

Polar_Ice wrote:There are many other countries I would live but I wouldn't say any of them are better than the other just different.
Don't know if I agree with this... there are a couple countries that are definitely worse than others... North Korea, Iran and other totalitarian states.

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Post by 3CT_Paddler » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:37 am

shoetrip wrote:I also notice many 'patriots' here keep touting the "freedom" as if it is some all encompassing term. You are only as free in a society as the laws allow you to be.

Here is a test of "freedom" try tangling with the IRS and see how free u really are. They have the right to seize your assets, freeze your accounts and do innumerable procedures to make your life difficult. . .all before you even get the opportunity to to defend yourself using the legal system.
Happened to a friend of mine over a identity theft situation and it took a couple of years to fix completely.

he was "free" to fight them and provide proof of their scew up after they made his life hell.
You are confusing rule of law with freedoms. A certain level of order is needed to ensure everyone has freedoms. This country gives freedoms many other countries don't have like freedom of speech or freedom for lawful assembly. Many, many countries are not so fortunate. Even in a sophisticated Western culture like France, they are not so open when it comes to freedom of religion.

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Post by gd » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:04 am

The comments about mobility got me thinking-- the working class Germans I know are perfectly happy with their station in life. Not necessarily happy-- I personally know of more suicides there than here-- just not striving economically. It all fits together. They don't have as much educational and economic mobility, they aren't considered failures with a trade vs. upwardly mobile profession, they aren't as judged by wealth and professional success, and society reciprocates by providing assurances that things necessary for a decent life will be met. In short, and simplifying-- no, they don't have the opportunities, but they don't particularly need or want them.

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Post by powersmo » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:17 am

This is a great subject for those of us that have spent a large part of our lives serving in the military, US or another country military. In the 28 years I have been in the US Army, I have learned a lot about myself, the USA as a country and the politics of the world. Currently, I am a full bird Colonel working in South Korea.

In my career, I have lived in Germany for 4 years and now 4 years in South Korea. I was fortunate to also live for shorter periods of time in Turkey and in many parts of the USA. Also, my wife and I have traveled and spent time in many other countries around the world.

Like some of the other posters have mentioned, every person has likes and dislikes about the US and any country they vacation to or visit. Family also has a big part as well. My wife will not entertain retiring to another country at least until our kids are both out of the house and on their own. Makes since due to our paying for the bills. She has also spent over 20 years in the US Army and retired in 2006 having lived in Germany and South Korea with me.

In all those years, I have known guys and girls that have married host country citizens and decided to retire there. I knew a senior sergeant that married a German gal and retired in Germany to help his father-in-law run their gasthus. Another left the Army after his enlistment and gave up his US citizenship because he was tired of getting drug over the coals by the Army. And he was not ready to be forced to do another rotation to the war.

Since I have been in South Korea this tour, I have met a retired full Army Colonel that is retiring to the Philippines to buy a bar as a retirement job. And the guy that I replaced in this job, he retired after his wife divorced him, moved to Australia as a contractor and bought several rice farms in the Philippines.

The political piece is a moving target in any country, even the USA. Today we have a great deal of freedom generally speaking. But I am also the owner of a jaded outlook. The US is slowly taking away the freedoms that we have always taken for granted. One day years ago the first red light camera was installed on a corner. Soon after that it was the proliferation of street corner cameras to watch for drug sells and prostitution rings. Today, I read where the Army has begun the testing of a hummingbird sized UAV. DARPA has always been the beginning of hugh future trends. Anyone remember the internet?

I love the US but not the road that it is on in general. I look at it like a Real Estate salesman placing an ad in the MLS system for a house. It would probably say something like..."Great location in an established neighborhood (meaning old and in need of work), close to shopping and wonderful entertainment venues. Won't last, call today."

Will I always live in the US? Maybe or not. When we moved back from Germany after 4 years, my wife and I were ready for a change. After less than 6 months we yearned to be back in Germany or anywhere in Europe. Only time will tell. Have a great night everyone :-)

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Post by Hedonic Regression » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:21 am

I think this was what Perpetual and others were referring to:

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/2/7/45002641.pdf

The U.S. and Germany have a higher correlation between father's and son's income and station in life than other countries (page 7 of the report).

A big driver in the U.S. is educational achievement, test scores are more highly correlated to parent's level of education than elsewhere.

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Post by shoetrip » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:40 am

powersmo wrote:


In all those years, I have known guys and girls that have married host country citizens and decided to retire there. I knew a senior sergeant that married a German gal and retired in Germany to help his father-in-law run their gasthus. Another left the Army after his enlistment and gave up his US citizenship because he was tired of getting drug over the coals by the Army. And he was not ready to be forced to do another rotation to the war.

Since I have been in South Korea this tour, I have met a retired full Army Colonel that is retiring to the Philippines to buy a bar as a retirement job. And the guy that I replaced in this job, he retired after his wife divorced him, moved to Australia as a contractor and bought several rice farms in the Philippines.
I know tons of ex service men that have retired to the PI--all men, u sure it has nothing to do with the women?
Last edited by shoetrip on Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

gabylon
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Post by gabylon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:12 am

AlohaJoe wrote:... Home country bias is huge. All you have to do is read the news to see constant stories about successful expats who, of their own volition, return to home countries in places most of us have no desire to even spend a long weekend in...
I think this cannot be stressed enough. There is no contradiction in two people from different countries claiming their country is the best in the world to live in. They can both be right. Even if, to a third party observer, one country is actually better. There are so many factors...How about the language barrier, to name only one?
It's great to be proud of your own country, and you could actually be right it is objectively better than others. But that is not the main reason you chose to stay. Do people really think that, for example, a successful, intelligent rich entrepreneur who was born in country X and does not wish to move to their "better" country Y, is being stupid or blind? Because he doesn't realize he didn't win the lotto by being born in X instead of Y? (as most Y nationals "know"?)
For some people whose roots are deep, and/or who do not adapt to change or new cultures well, etc. (nothing wrong with any of that, of course), moving abroad after retirement is out of the question. It's a little like asking a mother if they think their child is better or worse than others overall, and if they would like to exchange them for a better one. Of course there are probably better children in almost every respect. It's besides the point. Their child is the best one in the world. (Even though my mother is having doubts, lately :wink:)

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Post by perries » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:55 am

USA absolutely. I love the commonwealth countries and would enjoy sojourning in all of them for a time, but USA is where I want to be. I am so, so grateful to my great grandparents for immigrating here. The US is a place where surprising things happen, and our fellow citizens are amazing! Now, I've also met many people from around the world who I also think of with great appreciation and who are amazing - I don't mean to imply they are not, but that because of living here I think of so many people I have interacted with over my life with so much gratitude. For all the various problems and issues that beset us, there is no other company I'd rather be in whilst grappling with said problems and issues. You people rock. I've learned amazing things from my fellow Americans.

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Post by goggles » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:07 pm

fundtalker123 wrote:Yeah, where else does every town have a mcdonalds, taco bell, walmart, walgreens, home depot, and exxon station. Nice to know you can always get everything you need.
This right here is a mind blower. I laughed--and then realized it was probably said in seriousness.

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Post by Hedonic Regression » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:53 pm

goggles wrote:
fundtalker123 wrote:Yeah, where else does every town have a mcdonalds, taco bell, walmart, walgreens, home depot, and exxon station. Nice to know you can always get everything you need.
This right here is a mind blower. I laughed--and then realized it was probably said in seriousness.
NYC still proudly lacks a Walmart.

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Post by tetractys » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:04 pm

Been around enough to know there's no place like the USA, thus far. If we can just break the spell of the corporate death star and its shills, we'll do fine, and so will the rest of the world. -- Tet
RESISTANCE IS FRUITFUL

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Post by norm » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:28 pm

I spent my career traveling the world (primarily Asia, Latin America & the Caribbean). At one time I considered retiring to Singapore but then realized that I am a "spoiled American". When you go into a supermarket in a foreign country you don't have the variety of choices that we are used to. I would also miss not being able to see American TV, basketball, football & baseball on an almost daily basis.

The only place I would seriously consider is the high country of Panama where there are many American expats and lots of benefits overed by the government as an inducement to reitre there.

When I first became a widower I seriously considered traveling around the world and if I found the "ideal" place I would settle there. Then I met someone and my traveling plans were put on a permenant hold.

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Post by yobria » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:24 pm

Hedonic Regression wrote:
goggles wrote:
fundtalker123 wrote:Yeah, where else does every town have a mcdonalds, taco bell, walmart, walgreens, home depot, and exxon station. Nice to know you can always get everything you need.
This right here is a mind blower. I laughed--and then realized it was probably said in seriousness.
NYC still proudly lacks a Walmart.
And it's a long drive from my city (SF) to the nearest Wal-Mart.

Nick

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Post by saribi2 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:33 pm

We are by definition a self-selected pro American sample. We were either born here or chose to live here so you should not expect to hear too many complaints. And indeed if you have a medium level of money what would there be to complain about from a inward directed/selfish perspective?

I was born in the UK, and I have lived/worked in seven countries. I chose to live/work in the USA finally, in my forties, and because I had the "correct" skin color/education/money and great health insurance, it worked out extremely well. However, without those "correct" factors then life here would have been very difficult and Australia, Canada, England, France, Singapore, Spain, and Sweden, all of which I know fairly would each have their own set of advantages (and disadvantages.) But I live in my "little piece of Heaven" better known as Sarasota Florida - and, other than for its silly Florida politics why would I even think about living anywhere else?

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Post by Random Poster » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:37 pm

I currently live in Canada, in a city that, from what I heard this morning, is rated as one of the top 10 or so most liveable cities in the world. It isn't perfect, but it works for me right now.

That being said, I have no immediate desire to move back to the US.

The US, in my view, is not what it used to be, and I don't mean that as a compliment. If I were to write anything else, I'd probably be in breach of the TOS, so I'll just leave it at that.

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Post by JupiterJones » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:55 pm

GRT2BOUTDOORS wrote:I didn't even bother reading all of the replies....unequivocably, Hell YES!!!!
Where did this question come from? If you are questioning living here......please go........
Yup. Because the last thing we need is some wishy-washy, Lee Greenwood-hatin' hippies running around questioning things.

This is America, by Jingo! And we didn't get where we are today by having people ponder the idea that there might possibly be certain postive aspects to other countries.

Heck, I don't really understand why anyone would want to even vacation in another country. Don't they know about EPCOT?

JJ
Stay on target...

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Post by Bulldawg » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:28 pm

yobria wrote:
Hedonic Regression wrote:
goggles wrote:
fundtalker123 wrote:Yeah, where else does every town have a mcdonalds, taco bell, walmart, walgreens, home depot, and exxon station. Nice to know you can always get everything you need.
This right here is a mind blower. I laughed--and then realized it was probably said in seriousness.
NYC still proudly lacks a Walmart.
And it's a long drive from my city (SF) to the nearest Wal-Mart.

Nick
seems like some anti-Walmart bias/snobbery here :lol:
where is a frugal Boglehead supposed to buy his stuff ?
" IN GOD WE TRUST " ( official motto of the United States )

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Post by yobria » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:17 pm

Bulldawg wrote:seems like some anti-Walmart bias/snobbery here :lol:
where is a frugal Boglehead supposed to buy his stuff ?
No snobbery in my post, just noting there are plenty of places in America that aren't as generic as the poster described. I have nothing against Walmart.

Nick

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Post by nisiprius » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:46 pm

fundtalker123 wrote:Yeah, where else does every town have a mcdonalds, taco bell, walmart, walgreens, home depot, and exxon station. Nice to know you can always get everything you need.
Here's how Sinclair Lewis's character, the "poet" Chum Frink, puts it in his 1922 novel, Babbitt. When he is lonely when traveling, this is what he does. No McDonalds, to be sure, but "french-fried spuds" everywhere:

But when I get that lonely spell,
I simply seek the best hotel,
no matter in what town I be—
St. Paul, Toledo, or K.C.,
in Washington, Schenectady,
in Louisville or Albany.
And at that inn it hits my dome
that I again am right at home.
If I should stand a lengthy spell
in front of that first-class hotel,
that to the drummers loves to cater,
across from some big film theayter;
if I should look around and buzz,
and wonder in what town I was,
I swear that I could never tell!
For all the crowd would be so swell,
in just the same fine sort of jeans
they wear at home, and all the queens
with spiffy bonnets on their beans,
and all the fellows standing round
a-talkin’ always, I’ll be bound,
the same good jolly kind of guff,
‘bout autos, politics and stuff
and baseball players of renown
that Nice Guys talk in my home town!

Then when I entered that hotel,
I’d look around and say, “Well, well!”
For there would be the same news-stand,
same magazines and candies grand,
same smokes of famous standard brand,
I’d find at home, I’ll tell!
And when I saw the jolly bunch
come waltzing in for eats at lunch,
and squaring up in natty duds
to platters large of French Fried spuds,
why then I’d stand right up and bawl,
“I’ve never left my home at all!”
And all replete I’d sit me down
beside some guy in derby brown
upon a lobby chair of plush,
and murmur to him in a rush,
“Hello, Bill, tell me, good old scout,
how is your stock a-holdin’ out?”
Then we’d be off, two solid pals,
a-chatterin’ like giddy gals
of flivvers, weather, home, and wives,
lodge-brothers then for all our lives!
So when Sam Satan makes you blue,
good friend, that’s what I’d up and do,
for in these States where’er you roam,
you never leave your home sweet home.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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snodog
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:33 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Post by snodog » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:48 pm

Although I feel blessed to have been born in the US it would not have been my first choice. I think Europe and Canada have a better model.

You should strive to make your country the country you would want to be born in not knowing who you would be. And by that measure the US isn't even in the top 10.

User avatar
market timer
Posts: 5887
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:42 am

Post by market timer » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:22 pm

I'll probably end up in Hong Kong or Singapore. That was my goal a few years ago, and I went through recruiting when Asian branches of finance companies visited my school. They suggested I start in New York, as a non-Chinese speaking American.

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kramer
Posts: 1608
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:28 am
Location: Philippines

Post by kramer » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:11 am

I love the USA and feel so lucky that I was born there. I am not sure there is any other place where I could have retired in my early 40s with not much more than wage and investment income to get there.

Since retiring, I have lived (and continue to live) in other countries for adventure, mental stimulation, etc. It has been a great and unforgettable experience. I even had dinner last week with someone who named their son after me, that never happened in America!

But I am living as a rich person abroad who made it in America. This is very different from being born in said country abroad.

Also, due to modern trends like freer markets, democracy, internet, cheaper travel, most economically second tier countries offer most of what first tier countries offer. The main difference is that more people in those second tier countries don't have the money to buy it. This is very different from the state of affairs a generation ago when life in such countries was full of inconveniences and less predictable.

yobria
Posts: 5978
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:58 pm
Location: SF CA USA

Post by yobria » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:34 am

market timer wrote:I'll probably end up in Hong Kong or Singapore.
So what you're saying is - you're a man who likes to sweat :) .

Nick

User avatar
Sylvester the Investor
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 7:07 pm

Post by Sylvester the Investor » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:40 am

Yes, I'm thinking

- Costa Rica - Warm and peaceful, great beaches
- Belize - Like Costa Rica, but english speaking
- Thailand - Warm, Beaches
- Bali - I love Bali
- Vancouver - Like Colorado, but with ocean too

Flashes1
Posts: 836
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 7:43 am

Post by Flashes1 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:13 am

I love America for what it's done for the world and what it represents. I remain in complete awe of our Founding Fathers and what they did for freedom. There is not a single group of men in the history of the world that did what they did. I love the brash and lawlessness of the 1800's which lead to the early 1900's that resulted in some of the strongest companies the world has ever known. I love how we begrudingly entered WW2 and took names and kicked arse to end three of the biggest tyrants the developed world has ever known. Those three countries which we essentially wiped off the face of the earth are now among the richest ten countries in the world. I love how Ronald Reagan stood up to the Communists and said no more....we are taking you down. I love American ingenuity that resulted in the creation of the internet and some of the greatest companies in the history of the world....Microsoft, Apple, Ford Motors, Google, et al.

There is no better country. I'm proud to be an American.

skibbi9
Posts: 248
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:19 am

Post by skibbi9 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:23 am

no matter where you go, you're still paying US taxes!!! death and US taxes.

shoetrip
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:27 pm

Post by shoetrip » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:17 am

Flashes1 wrote:I love America for what it's done for the world and what it represents. I remain in complete awe of our Founding Fathers and what they did for freedom. There is not a single group of men in the history of the world that did what they did. I love the brash and lawlessness of the 1800's which lead to the early 1900's that resulted in some of the strongest companies the world has ever known. I love how we begrudingly entered WW2 and took names and kicked arse to end three of the biggest tyrants the developed world has ever known. Those three countries which we essentially wiped off the face of the earth are now among the richest ten countries in the world. I love how Ronald Reagan stood up to the Communists and said no more....we are taking you down. I love American ingenuity that resulted in the creation of the internet and some of the greatest companies in the history of the world....Microsoft, Apple, Ford Motors, Google, et al.

There is no better country. I'm proud to be an American.

I love America too but I think the Native Americans and African Americans would have a different historical view. Glory is usually built at the expense of others misfortunes and if we glorify our greatness and cover up our atrocities then we lose our compass to do what is right and thus diminish our greatness

Sidney
Posts: 6678
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:06 pm

Post by Sidney » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:13 am

shoetrip wrote:
Flashes1 wrote:I love America for what it's done for the world and what it represents. I remain in complete awe of our Founding Fathers and what they did for freedom. There is not a single group of men in the history of the world that did what they did. I love the brash and lawlessness of the 1800's which lead to the early 1900's that resulted in some of the strongest companies the world has ever known. I love how we begrudingly entered WW2 and took names and kicked arse to end three of the biggest tyrants the developed world has ever known. Those three countries which we essentially wiped off the face of the earth are now among the richest ten countries in the world. I love how Ronald Reagan stood up to the Communists and said no more....we are taking you down. I love American ingenuity that resulted in the creation of the internet and some of the greatest companies in the history of the world....Microsoft, Apple, Ford Motors, Google, et al.

There is no better country. I'm proud to be an American.

I love America too but I think the Native Americans and African Americans would have a different historical view.
Not to mention women.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.

gabylon
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:54 pm

Post by gabylon » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:22 am

Flashes1 wrote:I love America for what it's done for the world and what it represents. I remain in complete awe of our Founding Fathers and what they did for freedom. There is not a single group of men in the history of the world that did what they did. I love the brash and lawlessness of the 1800's which lead to the early 1900's that resulted in some of the strongest companies the world has ever known. I love how we begrudingly entered WW2 and took names and kicked arse to end three of the biggest tyrants the developed world has ever known. Those three countries which we essentially wiped off the face of the earth are now among the richest ten countries in the world. I love how Ronald Reagan stood up to the Communists and said no more....we are taking you down. I love American ingenuity that resulted in the creation of the internet and some of the greatest companies in the history of the world....Microsoft, Apple, Ford Motors, Google, et al.

There is no better country. I'm proud to be an American.
I believe you can be in awe of all that without being born in America. Are you not in awe of Leonardo da Vinci and his work, even though you were not born in Italy? How about Churchill during WWII. Must you be born in the UK to admire him? How about someone born in Texas, can they still be proud of the Founding Fathers, or should you be born in PA? My point is, someone can admire and support all this, without being American, or being American but choosing to live on a Greek island.

bearcub
Posts: 857
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:54 am
Location: Twilight Zone

Post by bearcub » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:25 am

I would move to lake wobegon,MN. or willoughby,CT.

shoetrip
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:27 pm

Post by shoetrip » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 am

gabylon wrote:
Flashes1 wrote:I love America for what it's done for the world and what it represents. I remain in complete awe of our Founding Fathers and what they did for freedom. There is not a single group of men in the history of the world that did what they did. I love the brash and lawlessness of the 1800's which lead to the early 1900's that resulted in some of the strongest companies the world has ever known. I love how we begrudingly entered WW2 and took names and kicked arse to end three of the biggest tyrants the developed world has ever known. Those three countries which we essentially wiped off the face of the earth are now among the richest ten countries in the world. I love how Ronald Reagan stood up to the Communists and said no more....we are taking you down. I love American ingenuity that resulted in the creation of the internet and some of the greatest companies in the history of the world....Microsoft, Apple, Ford Motors, Google, et al.

There is no better country. I'm proud to be an American.
I believe you can be in awe of all that without being born in America. Are you not in awe of Leonardo da Vinci and his work, even though you were not born in Italy? How about Churchill during WWII. Must you be born in the UK to admire him? How about someone born in Texas, can they still be proud of the Founding Fathers, or should you be born in PA? My point is, someone can admire and support all this, without being American, or being American but choosing to live on a Greek island.
The best thing about US citizenship is that as i am living like a prince on pennies a day, sipping a cocktail on an estate in a beautiful banana republic, the minute civil war breaks out, I can haul my tail to the nearest US embassy and be safely escorted back home

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