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letsgobobby · Post by **letsgobobby** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:33 pm

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xerty24 · Post by **xerty24** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:37 pm

With enough inflation, we can all be millionaires, but only a select few can be rich.

The Wizard · Post by **The Wizard** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:38 pm

This is a silly poll, since practically all of us are "millionaires" by age 50 or so if we've held a decent job from the beginning.
50 years from now, most 25 year olds working at McDonalds will be millionaires as well.

etarini · Post by **etarini** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:38 pm

Help me out here: annual income or net worth or...?

Including retirement accounts? Residence?

Eric

livesoft · Post by **livesoft** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:40 pm

He's polling about the number of posts you have made. I don't quite understand because one's post count is there for everyone to see.

bb · Post by bb » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:41 pm

The Wizard wrote:practically all of us are "millionaires" by age 50 or so if we've held a decent job from the beginning.

I have never seen any statistics to suggest that statement is true.

letsgobobby · Post by **letsgobobby** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:43 pm

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ram · Post by **ram** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:58 pm

My answer was based on following-
Home equity included
Net worth (not annual income)
Combined net worth of both partners

The Wizard · Post by **The Wizard** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:03 pm

If you look at the total net worth of a college-educated married couple, age 50 or so, you'll find a lot of them with $250K home equity and $750K of retirement assets. I don't think that's an incredible feat to accomplish.
But we're talking folks who have been FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE for a good quarter century, not people over their heads in credit card debt...

And nobody expects 25-35 yo Bogleheads to be "millionaires" significantly.
Talking about financial resources without taking into account the years to build them isn't too useful...

statsguy · Post by **statsguy** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:05 pm

A worthless question...

When we were in Bali... I was haggling over the price of some sarongs and the store keeper took my sunglasses put them on and was prancing around. I said I paid more than a million for those Kufannaw sunglasses. He immediatly took them off and then lowered the price on the pile of sarongs from 50 cents to 35 cents.

A million of something may be a little as a pair of sunglasses.

Stats

dave.d · Post by **dave.d** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:08 pm

Long-term inflation means that "millionaire" as a term no longer means a whole lot. Being a millionaire does NOT mean you're set for life.

555 · Post by **555** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:24 pm

letsgobobby wrote:Define it however you like, but if your definition is unusual please describe it below.

I'm not a millionaire by any definition, but it would be interesting to make a list of as many definitions as possible, so you can appreciate each time you pass the milestone according to one of these definitions.

RenoJay · Post by **RenoJay** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:26 pm

ram wrote:My answer was based on following-
Home equity included
Net worth (not annual income)
Combined net worth of both partners

If I included home equity, that would definitely pull me in the WRONG direction.

natureexplorer · Post by **natureexplorer** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:37 pm

Is a billionaire automatically also a millionaire?

bob90245 · Post by **bob90245** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:47 pm

I echo others in saying that the question doesn't hold much interest. By contrast, a more interesting question would be if you became a millionaire since the market top of 2007. On the one hand, your home equity had likely declined. But if you stayed the course and continued rebalancing during the bear and through the near 100% bull market recovery, it could have put a significant amount in your portfolio.

no_name · Post by **no_name** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:52 pm

I'll be one: one day.....one day....

Triple digit golfer · Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:50 am

The Wizard wrote:practically all of us are "millionaires" by age 50 or so if we've held a decent job from the beginning.

Very false.

lawman3966 · Post by **lawman3966** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:15 am

The Wizard wrote:This is a silly poll, since practically all of us are "millionaires" by age 50 or so if we've held a decent job from the beginning.
millionaires as well.

This is wrong. Perhaps in your milieu, this is true. But it's not true for the vast majority of Americans, at age 50 or any other age.

The link below uses data from triennial wealth data from the U.S. census bureau. Even while the housing bubble was in full swing, in 2004, $1M would place a person in the richest 15% of the population. In 1998 (which levels we may now have returned to, due to housing etc), you would be at the 92 percentile level with $ 1 M, in one's 50's. The equation used is an approximation. But, then again, none of the data is perfect.

http://www.hughchou.org/calc/wealth2.cgi

CEPR wrote the quoted matter below in 2009. In sum, the median net worth of the age cohort between 45 and 54 was $94,200 (including home equity). And, the housing bust has generally gotten worse since 2009.

"The median household with a person between the ages of 45 to 54 saw its net worth fall by more than 45 percent between 2004 and 2009, from $172,400 in 2004 to just $94,200 in 2009 (all amounts are in 2009 dollars)."

OnFire · Post by **OnFire** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:26 am

Not yet.

With my wife five years removed from dental school, for which she took out $150,000 in student loans, (which have the lowest interest rate of all of our debt), I don't think we even have a positive net worth.

We are however, staying the course.

letsgobobby · Post by **letsgobobby** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:54 am

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kirent · Post by **kirent** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:58 am

Perhaps when The Wizard was referring to "us" he meant "us bogleheads" which would probably be the case.

verygoodthings · Post by **verygoodthings** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:08 am

natureexplorer wrote:Is a billionaire automatically also a millionaire?

Best response in this thread.

NAVigator · Post by **NAVigator** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:10 am

I think some people view their house and possibly possessions as contributing to their financial status. A previous thread about net worth also caused confusion on this point.

I answered this poll in terms of invested amounts, cash, and the change in my pocket. Basically, does your investment statement have two commas or not.

[edit: in some European countries, two periods might be used instead. In other countries the digit grouping might not be in threes. More confusion.... Choose whatever applies. But then, I think we are all assuming USD.]

Jerry

SP-diceman · Post by **SP-diceman** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:13 am

Half a millionaire aint bad,
if your 25 years old.

Thanks
SP-diceman

VictoriaF · Post by **VictoriaF** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:23 am

verygoodthings wrote:
natureexplorer wrote:Is a billionaire automatically also a millionaire?
Best response in this thread.

A millionaire has N x $1,000,000. Can N be a fraction?

Victoria

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:32 am

letsgobobby wrote:...Bogleheads are far, far from average.

Nope. It just shows (so far) that we are just average Bogleheads :lol: ...

- Ron

NAVigator · Post by **NAVigator** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:33 am

VictoriaF wrote:A millionaire has N x $1,000,000. Can N be a fraction?

It likely is a fraction, but the assumption is that N >= 1. In that case, it would be an "improper fraction". But with a million bucks, you don't have to be proper.

Jerry

hsv_climber · Post by **hsv_climber** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:38 am

livesoft wrote:He's polling about the number of posts you have made. I don't quite understand because one's post count is there for everyone to see.

Are you hoping to reach the 1 million posts number in your lifetime?

Call_Me_Op · Post by **Call_Me_Op** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:07 am

VictoriaF wrote:
verygoodthings wrote:
natureexplorer wrote:Is a billionaire automatically also a millionaire?
Best response in this thread.
A millionaire has N x $1,000,000. Can N be a fraction?

Victoria

Only if the fraction is greater than or equal to 1.

VictoriaF · Post by **VictoriaF** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:17 am

Call_Me_Op wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
verygoodthings wrote:
natureexplorer wrote:Is a billionaire automatically also a millionaire?
Best response in this thread.
A millionaire has N x $1,000,000. Can N be a fraction?

Victoria
Only if the fraction is greater than or equal to 1.

How about the binary system?
1000000 = 64

Victoria

Sheepdog · Post by **Sheepdog** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:25 am

SP-diceman wrote:Half a millionaire aint bad,
if your 25 years old.
Thanks
SP-diceman

Just so you understand. Half a millionaire at 75 ain't bad either.
Jim

sschullo · Post by **sschullo** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:38 am

Sheepdog wrote:
SP-diceman wrote:Half a millionaire aint bad,
if your 25 years old.
Thanks
SP-diceman
Just so you understand. Half a millionaire at 75 ain't bad either.
Jim

What help me through out my life starting as a child is living within my means. Now that is a novel idea. In my twenties, making minumum wage in various odd jobs, I still managed to save $2500! That miniscle amount by comparison to half million was used to purchase some property and then by the time I was in my 40s, my companion and I had amassed a half million. Mind you, it wasn't because what the market or the income that gave me, its what I did, live within my means.

Opponent Process · Post by **Opponent Process** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:50 am

based on past (and very recent) history, it is in the millionaire's best interest to

1. deny he's a millionaire
2. argue that a million dollars is chump change
3. argue that anyone can become a millionaire

these might be even more important in the coming years. so it's somewhat natural for these kinds of queries to make millionaires a bit nervous.

Sriracha · Post by **Sriracha** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:05 am

Opponent Process wrote:based on past (and very recent) history, it is in the millionaire's best interest to

1. deny he's a millionaire
2. argue that a million dollars is chump change
3. argue that anyone can become a millionaire.

Gotta say I see some truth in that.

TRC · Post by **TRC** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:22 am

A more interesting topic would be "What age did you become a millionaire"?

hsv_climber · Post by **hsv_climber** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:32 am

TRC wrote:A more interesting topic would be "What age did you become a millionaire"?

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63758

Post by **Mel Lindauer** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:33 am

Kinda looks like a balanced fund (or group) 60/40 at this time.

DH287 · Post by **DH287** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:54 am

A co-worker was bragging to me the other day that his 401(k) balance broke the $1 million mark several weeks ago, and that he's "set for life".

To my backwards way of thinking, being a millionaire means being able to write a [good] check for $1 million.

When you consider that there are future taxes to be paid on 401(k) balances, capital gains to be paid on assets in taxable accounts, commissions and taxes to be paid on the sale of real-estate, it's a tough number to reach.

I would not, personally, choose to classify myself as a millionaire unless the post-tax value of my assets (exclusive of the value of my primary residence) was above $1 million.

I have a very long way to go...

The Wizard · Post by **The Wizard** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:08 pm

DH287 wrote: ...I would not, personally, choose to classify myself as a millionaire unless the post-tax value of my assets (exclusive of the value of my primary residence) was above $1 million.

And not to be overlooked are the huge number of ancillary benefits that start to flow in once you are classified as a millionaire...

A good way to look at $1M in financial assets, excluding your residence is as follows: you are now financially independent and secure for the remainder of your life to the tune of $40,000 per year income.
I don't want to get in trouble again, but for many of us, $40K per annum does not equate to great wealth...

bob90245 · Post by **bob90245** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:14 pm

The Wizard wrote:A good way to look at $1M in financial assets, excluding your residence is as follows: you are now financially independent and secure for the remainder of your life to the tune of $40,000 per year income.
I don't want to get in trouble again, but for many of us, $40K per annum does not equate to great wealth...

The caveat being that you have a 30-year time horizon that you plan to be alive (age 65 to 95, for example). Otherwise, you should plan on a lower SWR for a longer timeframe.

baw703916 · Post by **baw703916** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:33 pm

Italians all used to be millionaires. Before the introduction of the Euro.

Brad

Harold · Post by **Harold** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:40 pm

baw703916 wrote:Italians all used to be millionaires. Before the introduction of the Euro.

Brad

I used to save my Indonesian ATM receipts (probably still have some). They'd all show million-plus balances -- just from an ordinary checking account!

NAVigator · Post by **NAVigator** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:41 pm

What's interesting is how much this milestone is being trashed by the responses in this thread.

Jerry

chaz · Post by **chaz** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:42 pm

letsgobobby, are you a millionaire?

SpringMan · Post by **SpringMan** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:43 pm

My father often said he was working on his second million, he gave up on his first.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:50 pm

SpringMan wrote:My father often said he was working on his second million, he gave up on his first.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

...

- Ron

VictoriaF · Post by **VictoriaF** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:15 pm

Here is an easier question:

Victoria

HomerJ · Post by **HomerJ** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:26 pm

The Wizard wrote:I don't want to get in trouble again, but for many of us, $40K per annum does not equate to great wealth...

Heh, I know I shouldn't start up this argument again....

But remember, $40k a year without a mortgage and without a need to save any of it, is equal to someone making $100k a year now with a mortgage, higher taxes, and saving $10k-$15k a year in his 401k...

Personally I think $100k a year offers a pretty nice lifestyle... If I can have that same lifestyle without having to go to work... I consider that pretty rich.

And that doesn't even include SS (which is another $20k a year)

Of course, with inflation, I'll need more than a million by the time I retire... But if I was 65 today and the house was paid off, I could retire with a very nice lifestyle on a million and SS.

The Wizard · Post by **The Wizard** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:41 pm

stives wrote:Perhaps when The Wizard was referring to "us" he meant "us bogleheads" which would probably be the case.

Yes, I think I implicitly meant the community of Boglehead-ish investors who live beneath their means, and have been putting money aside for 25 years or so by the time they hit age 50.

And there's another factor that applies to folks with pensions. Those of us with 401(k)s and 403(b)s are including those in our calculations. Those with pensions may wish to "monetize" them to an approximate lump sum within their net worth.
Just an idea to level the playing field a bit...

hsv_climber · Post by **hsv_climber** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:02 pm

What if Mayans are correct and world will come to an end in 2012?
How would this feel to all the people who were saving for so many years?

Bogleheads.org

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Are you a millionaire?

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