Deleted

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills

Are you a millionaire?

Yes
252
34%
Yes
252
34%
No
228
31%
 
Total votes: 732

Topic Author
letsgobobby
Posts: 12073
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 am

Deleted

Post by letsgobobby »

Deleted
Last edited by letsgobobby on Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
xerty24
Posts: 4827
Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 3:43 pm

Post by xerty24 »

With enough inflation, we can all be millionaires, but only a select few can be rich.
The Wizard
Posts: 13356
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Post by The Wizard »

This is a silly poll, since practically all of us are "millionaires" by age 50 or so if we've held a decent job from the beginning.
50 years from now, most 25 year olds working at McDonalds will be millionaires as well.
etarini
Posts: 615
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:46 pm

Post by etarini »

Help me out here: annual income or net worth or...?

Including retirement accounts? Residence?

Eric
livesoft
Posts: 75212
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Post by livesoft »

He's polling about the number of posts you have made. I don't quite understand because one's post count is there for everyone to see.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
bb
Posts: 326
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:04 pm

Post by bb »

The Wizard wrote:practically all of us are "millionaires" by age 50 or so if we've held a decent job from the beginning.
I have never seen any statistics to suggest that statement is true.
Topic Author
letsgobobby
Posts: 12073
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 am

Post by letsgobobby »

Deleted
Last edited by letsgobobby on Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ram
Posts: 1779
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:47 pm
Location: Midwest

Post by ram »

My answer was based on following-
Home equity included
Net worth (not annual income)
Combined net worth of both partners
Ram
The Wizard
Posts: 13356
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Post by The Wizard »

If you look at the total net worth of a college-educated married couple, age 50 or so, you'll find a lot of them with $250K home equity and $750K of retirement assets. I don't think that's an incredible feat to accomplish.
But we're talking folks who have been FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE for a good quarter century, not people over their heads in credit card debt...

And nobody expects 25-35 yo Bogleheads to be "millionaires" significantly.
Talking about financial resources without taking into account the years to build them isn't too useful...
Last edited by The Wizard on Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
statsguy
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:38 pm

Post by statsguy »

A worthless question...

When we were in Bali... I was haggling over the price of some sarongs and the store keeper took my sunglasses put them on and was prancing around. I said I paid more than a million for those Kufannaw sunglasses. He immediatly took them off and then lowered the price on the pile of sarongs from 50 cents to 35 cents.

A million of something may be a little as a pair of sunglasses.

Stats
User avatar
dave.d
Posts: 936
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:30 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Post by dave.d »

Long-term inflation means that "millionaire" as a term no longer means a whole lot. Being a millionaire does NOT mean you're set for life.
Value-based allocation.
555
Posts: 4955
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:21 am

Re: Are you a millionaire?

Post by 555 »

letsgobobby wrote:Define it however you like, but if your definition is unusual please describe it below.
I'm not a millionaire by any definition, but it would be interesting to make a list of as many definitions as possible, so you can appreciate each time you pass the milestone according to one of these definitions.
RenoJay
Posts: 748
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:20 am
Location: Nevada

Post by RenoJay »

ram wrote:My answer was based on following-
Home equity included
Net worth (not annual income)
Combined net worth of both partners
If I included home equity, that would definitely pull me in the WRONG direction. :)
natureexplorer
Posts: 4201
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:52 am
Location: Houston

Post by natureexplorer »

Is a billionaire automatically also a millionaire?
User avatar
bob90245
Posts: 6511
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:51 pm

Post by bob90245 »

I echo others in saying that the question doesn't hold much interest. By contrast, a more interesting question would be if you became a millionaire since the market top of 2007. On the one hand, your home equity had likely declined. But if you stayed the course and continued rebalancing during the bear and through the near 100% bull market recovery, it could have put a significant amount in your portfolio.
Ignore the market noise. Keep to your rebalancing schedule whether that is semi-annual, annual or trigger bands.
no_name
Posts: 572
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:55 pm

Post by no_name »

I'll be one: one day.....one day....
Triple digit golfer
Posts: 6823
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:57 pm

Post by Triple digit golfer »

The Wizard wrote:practically all of us are "millionaires" by age 50 or so if we've held a decent job from the beginning.
Very false.
lawman3966
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:09 pm
Location: Tacoma WA

Post by lawman3966 »

The Wizard wrote:This is a silly poll, since practically all of us are "millionaires" by age 50 or so if we've held a decent job from the beginning.
millionaires as well.
This is wrong. Perhaps in your milieu, this is true. But it's not true for the vast majority of Americans, at age 50 or any other age.

The link below uses data from triennial wealth data from the U.S. census bureau. Even while the housing bubble was in full swing, in 2004, $1M would place a person in the richest 15% of the population. In 1998 (which levels we may now have returned to, due to housing etc), you would be at the 92 percentile level with $ 1 M, in one's 50's. The equation used is an approximation. But, then again, none of the data is perfect.

http://www.hughchou.org/calc/wealth2.cgi

CEPR wrote the quoted matter below in 2009. In sum, the median net worth of the age cohort between 45 and 54 was $94,200 (including home equity). And, the housing bust has generally gotten worse since 2009.

"The median household with a person between the ages of 45 to 54 saw its net worth fall by more than 45 percent between 2004 and 2009, from $172,400 in 2004 to just $94,200 in 2009 (all amounts are in 2009 dollars)."
User avatar
OnFire
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:48 pm

Post by OnFire »

Not yet.

With my wife five years removed from dental school, for which she took out $150,000 in student loans, (which have the lowest interest rate of all of our debt), I don't think we even have a positive net worth.

We are however, staying the course.
Where are all the customers yachts? | | “The most powerful force in the Universe is compound interest.” -Albert Einstein
Topic Author
letsgobobby
Posts: 12073
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:10 am

Post by letsgobobby »

Deleted
Last edited by letsgobobby on Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
kirent
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:06 am

Post by kirent »

Perhaps when The Wizard was referring to "us" he meant "us bogleheads" which would probably be the case.
Disclaimer: I am not a financial or legal expert and all information I provide is given for entertainment purposes only, at your own risk and with no guarantees of accuracy.
verygoodthings
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:58 pm

Post by verygoodthings »

natureexplorer wrote:Is a billionaire automatically also a millionaire?
Best response in this thread.
User avatar
NAVigator
Posts: 2466
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:24 am
Location: Iowa

Post by NAVigator »

I think some people view their house and possibly possessions as contributing to their financial status. A previous thread about net worth also caused confusion on this point.

I answered this poll in terms of invested amounts, cash, and the change in my pocket. Basically, does your investment statement have two commas or not.

[edit: in some European countries, two periods might be used instead. In other countries the digit grouping might not be in threes. More confusion.... Choose whatever applies. But then, I think we are all assuming USD.]

Jerry
Last edited by NAVigator on Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."
SP-diceman
Posts: 3968
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:17 am

Post by SP-diceman »

Half a millionaire aint bad,
if your 25 years old.





Thanks
SP-diceman
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 19549
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Post by VictoriaF »

verygoodthings wrote:
natureexplorer wrote:Is a billionaire automatically also a millionaire?
Best response in this thread.
A millionaire has N x $1,000,000. Can N be a fraction?

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
Ron
Posts: 6726
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: NY-NJ-PA Metropolitan Statistical Area

Re: Are you a millionaire?

Post by Ron »

letsgobobby wrote:...Bogleheads are far, far from average.
Nope. It just shows (so far) that we are just average Bogleheads :lol: ...

- Ron
User avatar
NAVigator
Posts: 2466
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:24 am
Location: Iowa

Post by NAVigator »

VictoriaF wrote:A millionaire has N x $1,000,000. Can N be a fraction?
It likely is a fraction, but the assumption is that N >= 1. In that case, it would be an "improper fraction". But with a million bucks, you don't have to be proper. :)

Jerry
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."
hsv_climber
Posts: 3971
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:56 pm

Post by hsv_climber »

livesoft wrote:He's polling about the number of posts you have made. I don't quite understand because one's post count is there for everyone to see.
Are you hoping to reach the 1 million posts number in your lifetime? :shock:
Call_Me_Op
Posts: 8140
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:57 pm
Location: Milky Way

Post by Call_Me_Op »

VictoriaF wrote:
verygoodthings wrote:
natureexplorer wrote:Is a billionaire automatically also a millionaire?
Best response in this thread.
A millionaire has N x $1,000,000. Can N be a fraction?

Victoria
Only if the fraction is greater than or equal to 1.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 19549
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Post by VictoriaF »

Call_Me_Op wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
verygoodthings wrote:
natureexplorer wrote:Is a billionaire automatically also a millionaire?
Best response in this thread.
A millionaire has N x $1,000,000. Can N be a fraction?

Victoria
Only if the fraction is greater than or equal to 1.
How about the binary system?
1000000 = 64

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
User avatar
Sheepdog
Posts: 5680
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:05 pm
Location: Indiana, retired 1998 at age 65

Post by Sheepdog »

SP-diceman wrote:Half a millionaire aint bad,
if your 25 years old.
Thanks
SP-diceman
Just so you understand. Half a millionaire at 75 ain't bad either.
Jim
All that truly matters in the end is that you loved.
sschullo
Posts: 2600
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:25 am
Location: Rancho Mirage, CA
Contact:

Post by sschullo »

Sheepdog wrote:
SP-diceman wrote:Half a millionaire aint bad,
if your 25 years old.
Thanks
SP-diceman
Just so you understand. Half a millionaire at 75 ain't bad either.
Jim
What help me through out my life starting as a child is living within my means. Now that is a novel idea. In my twenties, making minumum wage in various odd jobs, I still managed to save $2500! That miniscle amount by comparison to half million was used to purchase some property and then by the time I was in my 40s, my companion and I had amassed a half million. Mind you, it wasn't because what the market or the income that gave me, its what I did, live within my means.
"We have seen much more money made and kept by “ordinary people” who were temperamentally well suited for the investment process than by those who lacked this quality." Ben Graham
User avatar
Opponent Process
Posts: 5157
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:19 pm

Post by Opponent Process »

based on past (and very recent) history, it is in the millionaire's best interest to

1. deny he's a millionaire
2. argue that a million dollars is chump change
3. argue that anyone can become a millionaire

these might be even more important in the coming years. so it's somewhat natural for these kinds of queries to make millionaires a bit nervous.
30/30/20/20 | US/International/Bonds/TIPS | Average Age=37
Sriracha
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 12:14 pm

Post by Sriracha »

Opponent Process wrote:based on past (and very recent) history, it is in the millionaire's best interest to

1. deny he's a millionaire
2. argue that a million dollars is chump change
3. argue that anyone can become a millionaire.
Gotta say I see some truth in that.
Don't reach for yield.
TRC
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:38 pm

Post by TRC »

A more interesting topic would be "What age did you become a millionaire"?
hsv_climber
Posts: 3971
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:56 pm

Post by hsv_climber »

TRC wrote:A more interesting topic would be "What age did you become a millionaire"?
http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63758
User avatar
Mel Lindauer
Moderator
Posts: 31514
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:49 pm
Location: Daytona Beach Shores, Florida
Contact:

Post by Mel Lindauer »

Kinda looks like a balanced fund (or group) 60/40 at this time.
Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
DH287
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:59 pm
Location: Shoemakersville, PA

Post by DH287 »

A co-worker was bragging to me the other day that his 401(k) balance broke the $1 million mark several weeks ago, and that he's "set for life".

To my backwards way of thinking, being a millionaire means being able to write a [good] check for $1 million.

When you consider that there are future taxes to be paid on 401(k) balances, capital gains to be paid on assets in taxable accounts, commissions and taxes to be paid on the sale of real-estate, it's a tough number to reach.

I would not, personally, choose to classify myself as a millionaire unless the post-tax value of my assets (exclusive of the value of my primary residence) was above $1 million.

I have a very long way to go...
The Wizard
Posts: 13356
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Post by The Wizard »

DH287 wrote: ...I would not, personally, choose to classify myself as a millionaire unless the post-tax value of my assets (exclusive of the value of my primary residence) was above $1 million.
And not to be overlooked are the huge number of ancillary benefits that start to flow in once you are classified as a millionaire...
:twisted:

A good way to look at $1M in financial assets, excluding your residence is as follows: you are now financially independent and secure for the remainder of your life to the tune of $40,000 per year income.
I don't want to get in trouble again, but for many of us, $40K per annum does not equate to great wealth...
User avatar
bob90245
Posts: 6511
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:51 pm

Post by bob90245 »

The Wizard wrote:A good way to look at $1M in financial assets, excluding your residence is as follows: you are now financially independent and secure for the remainder of your life to the tune of $40,000 per year income.
I don't want to get in trouble again, but for many of us, $40K per annum does not equate to great wealth...
The caveat being that you have a 30-year time horizon that you plan to be alive (age 65 to 95, for example). Otherwise, you should plan on a lower SWR for a longer timeframe.
Ignore the market noise. Keep to your rebalancing schedule whether that is semi-annual, annual or trigger bands.
User avatar
baw703916
Posts: 6681
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:10 pm
Location: Seattle

Post by baw703916 »

Italians all used to be millionaires. Before the introduction of the Euro.

Brad
Most of my posts assume no behavioral errors.
Harold
Posts: 3154
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by Harold »

baw703916 wrote:Italians all used to be millionaires. Before the introduction of the Euro.

Brad
I used to save my Indonesian ATM receipts (probably still have some). They'd all show million-plus balances -- just from an ordinary checking account!
User avatar
NAVigator
Posts: 2466
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:24 am
Location: Iowa

Post by NAVigator »

What's interesting is how much this milestone is being trashed by the responses in this thread.

Jerry
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."
chaz
Posts: 13604
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:44 pm

Post by chaz »

letsgobobby, are you a millionaire?
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
User avatar
SpringMan
Posts: 5422
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:32 am
Location: Michigan

Post by SpringMan »

My father often said he was working on his second million, he gave up on his first.
Best Wishes, SpringMan
Ron
Posts: 6726
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: NY-NJ-PA Metropolitan Statistical Area

Post by Ron »

SpringMan wrote:My father often said he was working on his second million, he gave up on his first.
Hey, I resemble that remark! :wink: ...

- Ron
User avatar
VictoriaF
Posts: 19549
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:27 am
Location: Black Swan Lake

Post by VictoriaF »

Here is an easier question:

Image

Victoria
WINNER of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 16035
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Post by HomerJ »

The Wizard wrote:I don't want to get in trouble again, but for many of us, $40K per annum does not equate to great wealth...
Heh, I know I shouldn't start up this argument again....

But remember, $40k a year without a mortgage and without a need to save any of it, is equal to someone making $100k a year now with a mortgage, higher taxes, and saving $10k-$15k a year in his 401k...

Personally I think $100k a year offers a pretty nice lifestyle... If I can have that same lifestyle without having to go to work... I consider that pretty rich.

And that doesn't even include SS (which is another $20k a year)

Of course, with inflation, I'll need more than a million by the time I retire... But if I was 65 today and the house was paid off, I could retire with a very nice lifestyle on a million and SS.
The Wizard
Posts: 13356
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Post by The Wizard »

stives wrote:Perhaps when The Wizard was referring to "us" he meant "us bogleheads" which would probably be the case.
Yes, I think I implicitly meant the community of Boglehead-ish investors who live beneath their means, and have been putting money aside for 25 years or so by the time they hit age 50.

And there's another factor that applies to folks with pensions. Those of us with 401(k)s and 403(b)s are including those in our calculations. Those with pensions may wish to "monetize" them to an approximate lump sum within their net worth.
Just an idea to level the playing field a bit...
hsv_climber
Posts: 3971
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:56 pm

Post by hsv_climber »

What if Mayans are correct and world will come to an end in 2012?
How would this feel to all the people who were saving for so many years? :wink:
Post Reply