Retirement/Early Retirement without pension

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faltuk1
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Retirement/Early Retirement without pension

Post by faltuk1 »

I would like to hear from those who have retired and have no pension. Some of the things I would like to know -

1. At what age did you retire?
2. How do you have your portfolio invested?
3. Level of anxiety due to absence of fixed income like pension?
4. Anything else you want to share.

Thanks!
Wagnerjb
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Re: Retirement/Early Retirement without pension

Post by Wagnerjb »

faltuk1 wrote: Level of anxiety due to absence of fixed income like pension?
If you don't have a pension - and it causes you anxiety - I encourage you to buy an immediate annuity. That is exactly the same as the fixed income from a pension. There is absolutely no excuse for any anxiety over not having a fixed income stream, since they are easy to achieve.

Best wishes.
Andy
Ron
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Re: Retirement/Early Retirement without pension

Post by Ron »

Wagnerjb wrote:If you don't have a pension - and it causes you anxiety - I encourage you to buy an immediate annuity. That is exactly the same as the fixed income from a pension. There is absolutely no excuse for any anxiety over not having a fixed income stream, since they are easy to achieve.
Agreed; this is exactly what I did upon retiring a bit over three years ago at the age of 59.

I've posted a lot on my/wife's situation in retiring (at least me - wife is expected to do so next year) earlier than the time when most folks do - that is when their various income sources (e.g. pensions, SS, etc.) are available.

Just because you don't retire with a defined benefit (e.g. pension) at any age (not only ER) does not mean that you don't have options to form your own "income products" along the way, assuming you have the assets to do so. This goes a long way in elimation of your term, "Level of anxiety".

As far as our shared AA targets along the way? We went from a 90/10 (equity/bond-cash) for most of our accumulation years, shifting to a 60/40 (equity/bond-cash) over a two year period before retirement. We made the decision on our retirement date in our mid-50's and established our "retirement income adjustments" plan at that time, to be executed up to our point of retirement (yes, my wife was to retire at the same time as me, but as yet is happy to go to the office every day - different strokes).

Since retirement, we've changed our AA to 50/50 (equity/bond-cash) holdings. We found that we really did not need to be as aggressive, even with a 60/40 AA. Just to note that unlike most retired folks, our equity holdings are higher than normal, but that's due to our long-term planning for the benefit of our disabled son, after we pass. I believe that you will find that folks who have been retired for a bit of time along with having all their "income sources" available have very little equity holdings.

It all depends on your personal situation and goals for the future (yes, there is a "future" even in retirement :wink: ).

- Ron
scrabbler1
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Re: Retirement/Early Retirement without pension

Post by scrabbler1 »

faltuk1 wrote:I would like to hear from those who have retired and have no pension. Some of the things I would like to know -

1. At what age did you retire?
2. How do you have your portfolio invested?
3. Level of anxiety due to absence of fixed income like pension?
4. Anything else you want to share.

Thanks!
Answers:

1. 45, two years ago.
2. A lot of my taxable money is in bond funds, mostly high-yield (not junk bonds, most of it is at or slightly below investment grade). Some of it is in a stock mutual fund. I have an IRA, too, which is about 55/45 stock/bond with the bond part at least investment grade and of shorter duration than in the taxable account.
3. No. I still have SS.
4. I have a frozen pension I will be able to start collecting when I turn 65, in 18 years from now. By then, of course, its purchasing power will have decreased. But it will still be welcome.
Topic Author
faltuk1
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Re: Retirement/Early Retirement without pension

Post by faltuk1 »

Thanks for your reply. If you don't mind asking, do you have children? I also plan on retiring early, preferably before 50. I am 40 now, and my youngest one is only 2.
scrabbler1 wrote:
faltuk1 wrote:I would like to hear from those who have retired and have no pension. Some of the things I would like to know -

1. At what age did you retire?
2. How do you have your portfolio invested?
3. Level of anxiety due to absence of fixed income like pension?
4. Anything else you want to share.

Thanks!
Answers:

1. 45, two years ago.
2. A lot of my taxable money is in bond funds, mostly high-yield (not junk bonds, most of it is at or slightly below investment grade). Some of it is in a stock mutual fund. I have an IRA, too, which is about 55/45 stock/bond with the bond part at least investment grade and of shorter duration than in the taxable account.
3. No. I still have SS.
4. I have a frozen pension I will be able to start collecting when I turn 65, in 18 years from now. By then, of course, its purchasing power will have decreased. But it will still be welcome.
livesoft
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Post by livesoft »

I don't see a problem retiring at age 50 or younger, with or without children, with or without a pension. You just have to have enough money or in other words, you have to be financially independent.

If you are serious about retiring early, you need to hang out at the early retirement forum where you can soak up all the motivating messages of doing nothing all day:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f21/
I highly recommend it.
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faltuk1
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Post by faltuk1 »

Most of the people I see retire early including on this forum seems to have pension. If you retire before your children have been through college, doesn't it complicate figuring out how much to save?

Lets take my example and please help figure out how much I need to save to call it quits.

Age 40. Children age 2 and 8. Annual expenses $40000 in current dollors. No debt. No pension

How big should be my portfolio to call it quits? I will have no other income and will need to buy health insurance.

Thanks!
livesoft wrote:I don't see a problem retiring at age 50 or younger, with or without children, with or without a pension. You just have to have enough money or in other words, you have to be financially independent.

If you are serious about retiring early, you need to hang out at the early retirement forum where you can soak up all the motivating messages of doing nothing all day:
http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f21/
I highly recommend it.
Last edited by faltuk1 on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
scrabbler1
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Re: Retirement/Early Retirement without pension

Post by scrabbler1 »

faltuk1 wrote:Thanks for your reply. If you don't mind asking, do you have children? I also plan on retiring early, preferably before 50. I am 40 now, and my youngest one is only 2.
scrabbler1 wrote:
faltuk1 wrote:I would like to hear from those who have retired and have no pension. Some of the things I would like to know -

1. At what age did you retire?
2. How do you have your portfolio invested?
3. Level of anxiety due to absence of fixed income like pension?
4. Anything else you want to share.

Thanks!
Answers:

1. 45, two years ago.
2. A lot of my taxable money is in bond funds, mostly high-yield (not junk bonds, most of it is at or slightly below investment grade). Some of it is in a stock mutual fund. I have an IRA, too, which is about 55/45 stock/bond with the bond part at least investment grade and of shorter duration than in the taxable account.
3. No. I still have SS.
4. I have a frozen pension I will be able to start collecting when I turn 65, in 18 years from now. By then, of course, its purchasing power will have decreased. But it will still be welcome.
Single, no kids, no debts. My expenses are about $22k a year. No way I could have retired at 45 if I had kids. I never wanted them anyway.
livesoft
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Post by livesoft »

faltuk1 wrote:Most of the people I see retire early including on this forum seems to have pension. If you retire before your children have been through college, doesn't it complicate figuring out how much to save?
How so? You just need more money if you want to retire early and pay for college.
Lets take my example and please help figure out how much I need to save to call it quits.

Age 40. Children age 2 and 8. Annual expenses $40000 in current dollors. No debt. No pension

How big should be my portfolio to call it quits? I will have no other income and will need to buy health insurance.

Thanks!
What would be your annual expenses with health insurance? Don't forget to count any taxes you would pay, car replacements, weddings, travel to funerals, etc. Let's say your real expenses would be $60,000. So you need between 25 times and 33 times that, plus whatever you want to pay for college.

You can run some scenarios at www.firecalc.com and other retirement calculators listed in the Wiki.
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Watty
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Post by Watty »

4. Anything else you want to share.
When you think about retiring early be sure to keep in mind that "retirement" does not have to be a black and white choice about being either totally employed or not employed at all.

You can quibble about the definition, but lots of people consider themselves to be retired from their career but still work some in early retirement. For a person with an average income, working part time and earning $1,000 per month through their 60's can make a huge difference in how much they need in the bank to retire.

Greg
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faltuk1
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Post by faltuk1 »

Real estate taxes and current health insurance premiums are included in $40000 expense. This also included $5000 misc expenses. So based on 25 times I atleast need $1 mil.

plus whatever you want to pay for college?

If I want to pay for all of their tution and boarding, how much minimum should I include?

livesoft wrote:
faltuk1 wrote:Most of the people I see retire early including on this forum seems to have pension. If you retire before your children have been through college, doesn't it complicate figuring out how much to save?
How so? You just need more money if you want to retire early and pay for college.
Lets take my example and please help figure out how much I need to save to call it quits.

Age 40. Children age 2 and 8. Annual expenses $40000 in current dollors. No debt. No pension

How big should be my portfolio to call it quits? I will have no other income and will need to buy health insurance.

Thanks!
What would be your annual expenses with health insurance? Don't forget to count any taxes you would pay, car replacements, weddings, travel to funerals, etc. Let's say your real expenses would be $60,000. So you need between 25 times and 33 times that, plus whatever you want to pay for college.

You can run some scenarios at www.firecalc.com and other retirement calculators listed in the Wiki.
NYnative
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Post by NYnative »

For two kids to go to college in 15 years (more or less), I'd figure $200K a kid, minimum, for tuition, room and board. And that's conservative. Of course, you can always send them to community college for the first 2 years or you can hope for scholarships. If you have substantial savings, even if you are retired, don't count on any low income based aid.
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faltuk1
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Post by faltuk1 »

$200K/kid, meaning $100K/kid in todays dollors? So I guess I need minimum of $1.2 mil to retire.
NYnative wrote:For two kids to go to college in 15 years (more or less), I'd figure $200K a kid, minimum, for tuition, room and board. And that's conservative. Of course, you can always send them to community college for the first 2 years or you can hope for scholarships. If you have substantial savings, even if you are retired, don't count on any low income based aid.
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faltuk1
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Post by faltuk1 »

"working part time and earning $1,000 per month"

Could you please give few examples of these kind of jobs. I definitely don't want to work in retail.
The job I do currently, I have never seen a part time person. so that option is more or less closed.
Watty wrote:
4. Anything else you want to share.
When you think about retiring early be sure to keep in mind that "retirement" does not have to be a black and white choice about being either totally employed or not employed at all.

You can quibble about the definition, but lots of people consider themselves to be retired from their career but still work some in early retirement. For a person with an average income, working part time and earning $1,000 per month through their 60's can make a huge difference in how much they need in the bank to retire.

Greg
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Watty
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Post by Watty »

faltuk1 wrote:"working part time and earning $1,000 per month"

Could you please give few examples of these kind of jobs. I definitely don't want to work in retail.
The job I do currently, I have never seen a part time person. so that option is more or less closed.

Your current skills may be more open to part time employment than you might think, but this may be on more of a temporary basis than a permanent part time job though. For example my dentist had some health problems and couldn't work for about six months. During this time a "retired" dentist filled in for him. I didn't get the details but apparently there are placement agencies that specialize in placing dentists in temporary positions like this.

It would be good to check with local "temp' agencies about how much temp demand there is for your skills, there may be more than you think.

One of the best temp jobs that I have heard of is there are people who work as "temp" bed and breakfast inn operators. Many B&B's are run by a couple and finding someone with the skills to run a B&B for a couple of weeks when they need some time off is difficult if they don't want to close the B&B.

For more regular jobs how about;

School bus drivers or workers in school lunch rooms. Often these include benefits. I know at least two people who have done this to bring in income and keep health insurance until they qualify for Medicare. They also get summers and holidays off.

Help with catering for wedding and parties.

Handyman(or woman)

High School sports referee (I know a guy that does this because he is a sports nut, it does not pay much but he like being actively involved in sports and it helps him get some exercise too.)

Seasonal tax preparer.

Tutoring

Teaching English as a second language

Day care/ elder care

After school care

Any business where the weekends are the busy days of the week.

Run your own business and set your own hours.

I'm sure there are lots more. Often people who want to work full time are only able to find part times jobs so the part time jobs are out there.

Greg
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wshang
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Post by wshang »

faltuk1 wrote:$200K/kid, meaning $100K/kid in todays dollors? So I guess I need minimum of $1.2 mil to retire.
NYnative wrote:For two kids to go to college in 15 years (more or less), I'd figure $200K a kid, minimum, for tuition, room and board.
I can't speak for NYnative, but I plan on $200k in today's dollars. One kid who is a sophomore is costing me that much and the other should hopefully not exceed that amount. My magic number is way beyond $1.2M because I am planning on 40-50 years of retirement.
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Jake46
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Post by Jake46 »

1. At what age did you retire? 63
2. How do you have your portfolio invested? 60% bonds/40% equities
3. Level of anxiety due to absence of fixed income like pension? Low
4. Anything else you want to share. Life is good.
rwwoods
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Post by rwwoods »

I retired at age 62 in 2003. Today both my wife and I collect Social Security, and I have a very small pension. Our income pie is as follows:

Pension 5%
SS 54%
Invest 41%

I do not rely upon my pension and have no anxiety at all. We live better now than we did in the years before our retirement.
"I'm not so much concerned about the return on my money as the return of my money" - Will Rogers
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faltuk1
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Post by faltuk1 »

Wow! Could you please tell how much of $200K is tution and how much other? Is this Ivy league school expense?
wshang wrote:
faltuk1 wrote:$200K/kid, meaning $100K/kid in todays dollors? So I guess I need minimum of $1.2 mil to retire.
NYnative wrote:For two kids to go to college in 15 years (more or less), I'd figure $200K a kid, minimum, for tuition, room and board.
I can't speak for NYnative, but I plan on $200k in today's dollars. One kid who is a sophomore is costing me that much and the other should hopefully not exceed that amount. My magic number is way beyond $1.2M because I am planning on 40-50 years of retirement.
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Post by drewhaa »

faltuk1 wrote:Wow! Could you please tell how much of $200K is tution and how much other? Is this Ivy league school expense?
wshang wrote:
faltuk1 wrote:$200K/kid, meaning $100K/kid in todays dollors? So I guess I need minimum of $1.2 mil to retire.
NYnative wrote:For two kids to go to college in 15 years (more or less), I'd figure $200K a kid, minimum, for tuition, room and board.
I can't speak for NYnative, but I plan on $200k in today's dollars. One kid who is a sophomore is costing me that much and the other should hopefully not exceed that amount. My magic number is way beyond $1.2M because I am planning on 40-50 years of retirement.
Playing around with something like this might give you a starting point:

http://apps.collegeboard.com/fincalc/college_cost.jsp
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VictoriaF
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Re: Retirement/Early Retirement without pension

Post by VictoriaF »

Wagnerjb wrote:
faltuk1 wrote: Level of anxiety due to absence of fixed income like pension?
If you don't have a pension - and it causes you anxiety - I encourage you to buy an immediate annuity. That is exactly the same as the fixed income from a pension. There is absolutely no excuse for any anxiety over not having a fixed income stream, since they are easy to achieve.

Best wishes.
Company pensions are guaranteed by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC). Single Premium Immediate Annuity (SPIA) are protected by states only up to a state-specific limit. Depending on the age and amount, a pension may be a more reliable source of retirement income.

Victoria
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VictoriaF
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Post by VictoriaF »

faltuk1 wrote:Wow! Could you please tell how much of $200K is tution and how much other? Is this Ivy league school expense?
wshang wrote:
faltuk1 wrote:$200K/kid, meaning $100K/kid in todays dollors? So I guess I need minimum of $1.2 mil to retire.
NYnative wrote:For two kids to go to college in 15 years (more or less), I'd figure $200K a kid, minimum, for tuition, room and board.
I can't speak for NYnative, but I plan on $200k in today's dollars. One kid who is a sophomore is costing me that much and the other should hopefully not exceed that amount. My magic number is way beyond $1.2M because I am planning on 40-50 years of retirement.
Top-tier Ivy League schools have large endowments, and if your children enter college after you have retired, they may qualify for a substantial financial aid. Most other private schools -- and out-of-state public schools -- are the ones that come with large price tags.

Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake | Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. | Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
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celia
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Post by celia »

faltuk1 wrote:Lets take my example and please help figure out how much I need to save to call it quits.

Age 40. Children age 2 and 8. Annual expenses $40000 in current dollors. No debt. No pension

How big should be my portfolio to call it quits? I will have no other income and will need to buy health insurance.
It is irrelevant what your current living expenses are. Some people retire soon after their home is paid off or all the kids are gone, since, obviously their living expenses are much lower then.

So I suggest you estimate your needed living expenses for each year from now until the house is paid and the kids are gone. From then on do you think your living expenses will be stable? Allow for health issues to arise between now and then and if your parents or others will need financial assistance.

Then depending how "sure" you are of these expenses (in today's dollars), build in an "unsure" factor of 10%, 50% or even twice what you currently estimate. Coming up with these estimates will be the hard part. Once you have the living expenses down, it will be easier to figure out how much you will need to cover them. If you do everything in today's dollars, it will make it easier. Then you can somewhat assume the inflation in expenses and investment income will rise at the same time.

celia
(This may sound like a logical approach, but in practice it is hard to do because of so many unknowns.)
29palms
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What kind of lifestyle do you need?

Post by 29palms »

How about Costa Rica lifestyle, eating rice and beans morning noon and night, you live there just with your social security. Now, if you want to live the high life in Costa Rica, well, like anywhere else, it gets expensive. It comes down to how much you got at the end of the game and what kind of lifestyle you wish to live.
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Opponent Process
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Post by Opponent Process »

incarceration.
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MWCA
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Re: What kind of lifestyle do you need?

Post by MWCA »

29palms wrote:How about Costa Rica lifestyle, eating rice and beans morning noon and night, you live there just with your social security. Now, if you want to live the high life in Costa Rica, well, like anywhere else, it gets expensive. It comes down to how much you got at the end of the game and what kind of lifestyle you wish to live.
You could probably do that in the US with a paid off mobile home. No need to hit Costa Rica. ;)
We are all worms. But I believe that I am a glow-worm.
29palms
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Post by 29palms »

For the price of a mobile home, you could get a solid structure in Costa Rica in the Capitol or around there which is perpetual spring all year around. Maybe nothing fancy, but for sure, you can nail something for 30-40K and live quite well. High's in the 80s and lows in the 50's all year round. Don't need aircon at night. Just open the windows. Speaking Spanish does help. But there are alot of American expats living down there. And alot of TICOS/TICAS speak English. Mobile homes sound expensive. Wear and tear on the vehicle, constant maintenance, living in a trailer park or rv park after a while would get old. Easy pickings for theives. Maybe eating rice and beans gets old in Costa Rica but that's just a personal choice I guess.
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Post by MWCA »

Oh you make it sound all well and good. No possible dangerous in Costa Rica! Sounds like paradise. :)
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29palms
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Post by 29palms »

MWCA wrote:Oh you make it sound all well and good. No possible dangerous in Costa Rica! Sounds like paradise. :)
I don't know where you live but I live in Houston. It aint pretty. I'd be more scared here at 65.
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Post by BruceM »

NYnative wrote:For two kids to go to college in 15 years (more or less), I'd figure $200K a kid, minimum, for tuition, room and board. And that's conservative. Of course, you can always send them to community college for the first 2 years or you can hope for scholarships. If you have substantial savings, even if you are retired, don't count on any low income based aid.
Per the College Board web site, the cost of tuition, fees, required books and supplies and room and board for the Univ of Oregon for 2010 is $18,377/yr. In 15 years, that will grow to about $44,050/yr at an expected annual educational inflation rate of 6%/yr. So the total that would be required at the beginning of the first year of college, assuming the student attends full time for 4 consecutive years and the savings averaged 7%/yr, would be about $173,700. Running this calculation again for a private college, using the University of Portland (private Catholic Univ) costs per the same web site would require an accumulation of $405,200 to fund 4 years of college in 15 years...per student.

Now, certainly there will be available some grant or scholarship dollars, as I understand that the majority of students attending private (read: expensive) colleges do not pay the full sticker price.

But these numbers are sobering.

BruceM
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Sheepdog
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Re: Retirement/Early Retirement without pension

Post by Sheepdog »

faltuk1 wrote:I would like to hear from those who have retired and have no pension. Some of the things I would like to know -

1. At what age did you retire?
2. How do you have your portfolio invested?
3. Level of anxiety due to absence of fixed income like pension?
4. Anything else you want to share.

Thanks!
1. Age 65, twelve years ago. (I did have a pension available, but chose to take it as a lump sum and roll it over to an IRA.) I did have Social Security, though. Not sure if you wanted to include that. I have lived off of Social Security and returns from these investments exclusively.
2. Conservative investments with a good portion in dividend funds. At retirement my allocation was 55% stocks, but later revised to 100 minus age in stocks. In the first 5 years in retirement converted 20% to Roth IRAs. Sold for living expenses or gave away almost all taxable in those 5 years also.
3. None, but I knew I had to be diligent.
4. Not having a mortgage helps dramatically. Do planning to have low taxes in retirement. Before retiring know how much you will need each year and not forget to plan for possible large expenditures like house maintenance (remodeling), new auto, etc., so control how much you take out for expenses annually.... religiously. My plan was to take out no more than an average of 4.5% a year and not adjust for inflation. I did that and lived well. By the way, I have as much as I had at retirement which was and is well less than $1 mil.
Jim
Unless you try to do something beyond what you have already mastered you will never grow. (Ralph Waldo Emerson)
Bob's not my name
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Post by Bob's not my name »

faltuk1 wrote: So I guess I need minimum of $1.2 mil to retire.
I'm your role model. I'm almost 50 (your goal retirement age), I'm more than halfway through college costs, I have more than $1.2M ... and I think I'd be out of my gourd to retire now.
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