Am I Required to Repay Signing Bonus

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Abciximab
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Am I Required to Repay Signing Bonus

Post by Abciximab » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:22 pm

I was terminated from my job just two months shy of fulfilling my three year contract I signed when I began. The physical paper contract that I signed only stated the amount of the bonus, that the length of the contract was three years, and the market I agreed to work in.

I was contacted by the company's accounting department and asked to repay the full $15,000 signing bonus. Before I signed, a company representative verbally told me that if I left before the three years were up I would have to repay a prorated bonus. I mentioned this to the accounting department, and they provided me with a document of the contract/bonus terms. In this document it clearly states that if leaving before the contract term expires I would be responsible for repaying the full amount of the bonus. I had never seen these terms before, and I most definitely never signed any document that reflected those terms.

So I guess my question is, should I repay the full amount or refuse? I'm all about being fair, and I'd be more than happy to pay a prorated amount based on the two months I fell short, but it seems ridiculously unfair to be on the hook for $15k becuase of two months. And as I said, I was under the impression that it would be prorated AND I never signed any document that stated any specific repayment terms. The terms state that if I don't pay the full amount the account the document reads "in the event employee fails to fully satisfy any portion of this repayment obligation, the company may refer collection to a collection agency, and employee shall then be responsible for all fees incurred by in connection with such collection, including any attorney's fees and court costs."

Do I bite the bullet and pay the full $15k, or do I refuse to pay and let it go to collections? I don't care about my credit score right now, so if I could possibly negotiate a lesser amount with the collection agency I'd be all for it. Or will they just sue me for the $15k? As anyone out there gone through something like this before? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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The Wizard
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Post by The Wizard » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:29 pm

Get out your copy of the document you signed and show those weasels how it differs from the current boilerplate doc they are waving at you.
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alec
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Post by alec » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:36 pm

Yeah, it's pretty stupid for the company not to have had you review and signed that you read the language for the repayment of the signing bonus. Oh, well. If they persist after you show them the docs you have, I'd get a lawyer.

Better yet, write a letter w/ copies of the docs you have to the company's legal dept.
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tim1999
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Post by tim1999 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:38 pm

I would wait and see if they get a lawyer involved and file suit to get the money from you. Otherwise they can go pound sand. I don't see how an employer has standing to report things to the credit agencies either.

I also think the distinction between quitting on one's own and being terminated is relevant here.

retiredjg
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Post by retiredjg » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:39 pm

That sure is a strange arrangement. They actually have a $15k incentive to fire you at 2 years, 10 months. It would make sense if you were voluntarily leaving, but this way sounds a little fishy to me.

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Post by KyleAAA » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:42 pm

Do you have a copy of the document you signed? Is it the same or different from the document they showed you? That would be the deciding factor.

Also, if they can't produce the document YOU signed personally, I don't see how they have any legal standing. I'd stand firm and see how they play it.

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Post by bottlecap » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:50 pm

Man, it sure sounds like they're trying to hose you. I agree that you need to look at what you signed, not what they present to you now.

I would not even tell them what your understanding was at the time. If that document isn't signed by you, tell them to pound sand. I'd tell them they can speak with your lawyer and let them know that you'll be contacting the Department of Labor if they take any action.

You might need to get a lawyer, but this sounds like BS.

Good luck,

JT

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Post by jeff mc » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:50 pm

retiredjg wrote:That sure is a strange arrangement. They actually have a $15k incentive to fire you at 2 years, 10 months. It would make sense if you were voluntarily leaving, but this way sounds a little fishy to me.

that was my thought, too. some bean counter looking to save the company 15k by firing some folks as they near their contractual bonus period. seems fishy / unethical of them. i'd lawyer up, and fight them for that 15k. you say you don't mind trashing your credit score, but things change, and future employers will most likely pull your credit history. to see a 15k lien on you from your previous employer won't look good to any prospective company looking to hire you.

1) lawyer up. 2) fight the *astards, 3) don't let it go to collections. 4) a 15k penalty for signing a bad contract 3 yrs ago may be the price to pay to move on w/ your life and be 're-hire-able' to other companies

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Post by yobria » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:55 pm

That's such an awful story you've got an easy solution. Tell them you're going to write a press release, take the story to the papers, and set up a website telling the story.

They'll back down.

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I would tell (verbally, not in writing) them " I w

Post by rocket » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:00 pm

I would tell (verbally, not in writing) them "I will never pay back the bonus". See what they do. You worked for a lousy company.

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Re: Am I Required to Repay Signing Bonus

Post by arthurdawg » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:10 pm

Abciximab wrote:I was terminated from my job just two months shy of fulfilling my three year contract I signed when I began. The physical paper contract that I signed only stated the amount of the bonus, that the length of the contract was three years, and the market I agreed to work in.

I was contacted by the company's accounting department and asked to repay the full $15,000 signing bonus. Before I signed, a company representative verbally told me that if I left before the three years were up I would have to repay a prorated bonus. I mentioned this to the accounting department, and they provided me with a document of the contract/bonus terms. In this document it clearly states that if leaving before the contract term expires I would be responsible for repaying the full amount of the bonus. I had never seen these terms before, and I most definitely never signed any document that reflected those terms.

So I guess my question is, should I repay the full amount or refuse? I'm all about being fair, and I'd be more than happy to pay a prorated amount based on the two months I fell short, but it seems ridiculously unfair to be on the hook for $15k becuase of two months. And as I said, I was under the impression that it would be prorated AND I never signed any document that stated any specific repayment terms. The terms state that if I don't pay the full amount the account the document reads "in the event employee fails to fully satisfy any portion of this repayment obligation, the company may refer collection to a collection agency, and employee shall then be responsible for all fees incurred by in connection with such collection, including any attorney's fees and court costs."

Do I bite the bullet and pay the full $15k, or do I refuse to pay and let it go to collections? I don't care about my credit score right now, so if I could possibly negotiate a lesser amount with the collection agency I'd be all for it. Or will they just sue me for the $15k? As anyone out there gone through something like this before? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.



Lawyer... works well in the medical world!

Is abciximab still on the market? Haven't see any used lately...
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HomerJ
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Post by HomerJ » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:17 pm

They fired you??

Threaten to get a lawyer...

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HomerJ
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Re: Am I Required to Repay Signing Bonus

Post by HomerJ » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:21 pm

Abciximab wrote:I mentioned this to the accounting department, and they provided me with a document of the contract/bonus terms. In this document it clearly states that if leaving before the contract term expires I would be responsible for repaying the full amount of the bonus. I had never seen these terms before, and I most definitely never signed any document that reflected those terms.


You are not leaving... They terminated you. I agree with the yobria... Tell them if they turn it over to collections you will get a lawyer AND go to the press.

Do not pay them.

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HomerJ
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Post by HomerJ » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:21 pm

As an aside, what kind of job today has 3-year contracts?

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Post by retiredjg » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:23 pm

Before doing or saying anything, get a copy of what you signed. It would be mighty embarrassing to threaten this and that and then find out you are mistaken.

Have you already done an internet search to see if this is a regular practice? Other people with the same problem may have set up websites.

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Post by Alex Frakt » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:23 pm

From what you stated.... You didn't leave, you were terminated. You owe them nothing. Furthermore, unless you signed a contract stating specific terms related to the signing bonus, the signing bonus is legally no different from any other pay. They have no right to take it back.

Since we can't know all the details, I suggest you schedule a consultation with an employment lawyer who specializes in employee-side cases. Bring all the documents you have. It will cost you $100 - $200 and you will a much better understanding of the issues. If you want, you can also agree on a fixed price to have the lawyer write a letter on your behalf to the company. That will almost always be sufficient to get them to back down.

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Post by Sheepdog » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:27 pm

Abciximab
What is the name of the company? Why not let us know? They aren't treating you so well.
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jstat
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Post by jstat » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:35 pm

If you have your paychecks direct deposited they may be able to withdraw the bonus from the account without your consent. Consider closing the account, or keeping very little money in it.

May sound paranoid but I have seen it happen.

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bottlecap
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Post by bottlecap » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:37 pm

After thinking about this some more, I almost think that a provision allowing a company to fire you within a certain time, especially as long as 3 years, so that you have to pay a signing bonus back would be unenforceable in many, if not most states.

I'd tell them no, tell them it's ridiculous and tell them to think long and hard about sending their "claim" to collections, as you will definitely retain counsel in that case and take any action against the company that you may have. A call to the Department of Labor might also help to see where they think you might be at.

JT

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Post by matt » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:00 pm

I'm no legal eagle, but I think anyone who is would recognize that the company is acting in bad faith and without a signed copy of their supposed terms, you owe them nothing. It's pretty obvious that few people who bothered to read those terms at the time of hire would agree to them and it's oh so convenient for them to pull out these unseen terms just days before you were "entitled" to the full bonus.

It will cost a lot less than $15,000 to meet with an attorney, so do it.

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Post by natureexplorer » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:05 pm

jstat wrote:If you have your paychecks direct deposited they may be able to withdraw the bonus from the account without your consent. Consider closing the account, or keeping very little money in it.

May sound paranoid but I have seen it happen.
Good point! I wonder whether that would be illegal as well. I believe to have signed direct deposit form stating that I am also authorizing corrective withdrawals.

Either way, what matters is what you have signed. Have you signed something that says that you will repay in full if the 3-year term is not completed?

I used to work for a company that started requiring full repayment of sign-on bonuses if the two years were not completed. I know at least one case where someone quit literally the day after his two-year anniversary. What if one gets fired because of fault or something else serious like stealing and not just laid off?

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Post by SteveB3005 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:06 pm

Hard for me to imagine there is not more to the story here, unless this is the companies first stab at a signing bonus with binding stipulations.

That aside, if your employer feels they have a solid case I doubt they will go to the trouble and expense to get a lawyer involved for an amount as small as 15k, but just turn it over for collection and let you hash it out with the agency. The agency takes charge of the debt and remits back to your employer an agreed percentage of anything you pay. You of course can dispute the debt, but you can be assured good collection agencies require supportive paperwork from the creditor and try to avoid shaky cases.

If you never pay a dime back your employer is most likely out about 10k, because the signing bonus was probably carried as a no interest loan and now gets written off as bad debt and is deducted from gross profit at a likely 35% corporate tax rate.

My best advice would be to make sure you have all the facts, keep an open dialouge with the company, and look at all of this as unemotional and professional as is possible.

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Post by scott30 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:24 pm

Don't pay it. But, don't let it go to collections. Contact a lawyer, have him/her review the contract, and then have them write your previous employer with your intentions not to repay....because it is not owed. Don't let it go to collections...they can't send collectors after you if you legitimately contest that it's owed with your attorney.

Good Luck!

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Post by leonard » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:29 pm

First, what does the paper that you signed (and of course had your lawyer review) say regarding the $15k bonus? That's the bottomline.

Also, what is all this worry about the $15k "going to collections"? If any company fabricated a debt, do you have to pay it simply because they say you owe it? If $15k suddenly appeared on your credit card that you didn't charge, would you pay it or worry about it "going to collections"?

Btw - what is "going to collections" exactly anyway?
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Post by HornedToad » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:30 pm

The signing bonuses I've seen only had to be repaid a prorated amount and only if you voluntarily left the job...

555
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Re: Am I Required to Repay Signing Bonus

Post by 555 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:51 am

OP, I'm going to stick my neck out and say your story doesn't make sense and I don't believe it.
Abciximab wrote:I was terminated from my job just two months shy of fulfilling my three year contract I signed when I began. The physical paper contract that I signed only stated the amount of the bonus, that the length of the contract was three years, and the market I agreed to work in.

I was contacted by the company's accounting department and asked to repay the full $15,000 signing bonus. Before I signed, a company representative verbally told me that if I left before the three years were up I would have to repay a prorated bonus. I mentioned this to the accounting department, and they provided me with a document of the contract/bonus terms. In this document it clearly states that if leaving before the contract term expires I would be responsible for repaying the full amount of the bonus. I had never seen these terms before, and I most definitely never signed any document that reflected those terms.

So I guess my question is, should I repay the full amount or refuse? I'm all about being fair, and I'd be more than happy to pay a prorated amount based on the two months I fell short, but it seems ridiculously unfair to be on the hook for $15k becuase of two months. And as I said, I was under the impression that it would be prorated AND I never signed any document that stated any specific repayment terms. The terms state that if I don't pay the full amount the account the document reads "in the event employee fails to fully satisfy any portion of this repayment obligation, the company may refer collection to a collection agency, and employee shall then be responsible for all fees incurred by in connection with such collection, including any attorney's fees and court costs."

Do I bite the bullet and pay the full $15k, or do I refuse to pay and let it go to collections? I don't care about my credit score right now, so if I could possibly negotiate a lesser amount with the collection agency I'd be all for it. Or will they just sue me for the $15k? As anyone out there gone through something like this before? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Post by tmhalley » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:13 am

I am fairly familiar with the structure of most signing bonuses. Usually, the terms and conditions are waived if someone is involuntarily terminated.

It sounds to me like you should kick this issue upstairs to your former boss or HR contact. The "accounting department" may not be aware of all the factors in your situation. Often, it is a clerk who has good intentions but is uninformed.

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Post by SpringMan » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:20 am

When I worked for EDS, they had a 10 week intense training program and made participants sign and agree to work three years or pay back over $15K, the alleged cost. This program was a requirement for newly hired college grads. They scaled the amounted owed down after 1 year and again after 2 years I think it was down 6K. It did not matter if the employee was fired or quit, they owed the money and would eventually be turned over to a collection agency. This indentured servant thing worked for EDS in the south, they were headquartered in Plano, TX. GM bought EDS in 1984 and made EDS a subsidiary. EDS tried to pull this in Michigan and it did not fly very well. Eventually it was dropped in south too. Companies can be evil. If one is terminated it is much different than a voluntary quit and these type of contracts should be null and void upon termination.
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Post by blink32 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:45 am

rrosenkoetter wrote:As an aside, what kind of job today has 3-year contracts?


There is an open 3yr contract slot in my group for an IT individual right now. I see lots of long length contracts (IT and Other) like this in new Health Care application implementations also.

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Re: Am I Required to Repay Signing Bonus

Post by Cosmo » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:20 am

555 wrote:OP, I'm going to stick my neck out and say your story doesn't make sense and I don't believe it.
Abciximab wrote:I was terminated from my job just two months shy of fulfilling my three year contract I signed when I began. The physical paper contract that I signed only stated the amount of the bonus, that the length of the contract was three years, and the market I agreed to work in.

I was contacted by the company's accounting department and asked to repay the full $15,000 signing bonus. Before I signed, a company representative verbally told me that if I left before the three years were up I would have to repay a prorated bonus. I mentioned this to the accounting department, and they provided me with a document of the contract/bonus terms. In this document it clearly states that if leaving before the contract term expires I would be responsible for repaying the full amount of the bonus. I had never seen these terms before, and I most definitely never signed any document that reflected those terms.

So I guess my question is, should I repay the full amount or refuse? I'm all about being fair, and I'd be more than happy to pay a prorated amount based on the two months I fell short, but it seems ridiculously unfair to be on the hook for $15k becuase of two months. And as I said, I was under the impression that it would be prorated AND I never signed any document that stated any specific repayment terms. The terms state that if I don't pay the full amount the account the document reads "in the event employee fails to fully satisfy any portion of this repayment obligation, the company may refer collection to a collection agency, and employee shall then be responsible for all fees incurred by in connection with such collection, including any attorney's fees and court costs."

Do I bite the bullet and pay the full $15k, or do I refuse to pay and let it go to collections? I don't care about my credit score right now, so if I could possibly negotiate a lesser amount with the collection agency I'd be all for it. Or will they just sue me for the $15k? As anyone out there gone through something like this before? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Um. You might want to elaborate a little bit more on that, 555.

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dm200
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Post by dm200 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:42 am

What you should do, IMO, depends a lot on what this company wants to accomplish.

If the main issue is just the money, then decline to pay, cite the fact that you never agreed to the terms they cite and that they terminated you. Perhaps consult an attorney and perhaps ofer to return a prorated portion. They are likely to offer a settlement. If this is the case, there is little harm to you.

Why were you terminated? if the termination was for some sort of gross misconduct, fraud, embezzlement, etc., then they may have a good case.

If the main issue with them is that you are, or will be, a threat to them in the future (by working for a competitor, for example), then they can make your life miserable and harm your future career by having lawsuits and collections on your record. They can probably hire $500 an hour attorneys to destroy you. IF this is the case, paying the $15,000 could be the least expensive route. I speak from experience.

Consult an attorney that deals in such cases. You also want to find an attorney who deals with this industry, if this might be industry specific.

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Post by bhoy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:21 am

Just my two cents on this, but doesn't seem like anyone has mentioned this. Depending on your contact and why you were termed, does it not make sense for the OP when speaking to the attorney to ask about recovering the remaining two months of his unpaid contract? If a contract states three years, without the right of either to term the contact at any time, the OP would be due two months wages. Definitely look at the details of the contract you signed.

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Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:13 am

The terms that govern are the ones that you signed - not the "new terms" they now want you to honor. If the old terms state "leaving prior to completion of 3 years is to be pro-rated then that's what any court of law will honor".

Go to a lawyer, show them the document you possess, usually a swift letter from your attorney to theirs - will bring the matter to a fast resolution. However, be mindful, if your termination was the result of fraud on your part and they can prove it- that agreement may be made null and void - leaving you on the hook and maybe more.

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Post by 3CT_Paddler » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:36 am

Was the reason for your termination the result of any kind of fraud or gross negligence on your part? If they fired you just to downsize or they didn't like your work for whatever reason, they have no case IMO (speaking as a non-lawyer) and are a horrible employer to boot.

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Post by NateW » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:47 am

I find it interesting that you were terminated just two months before your contract ended. Perhaps your former employer was trying to screw you out of the $15,000 sign-on bonus and nothing else. I could see a clause stating if you "quit" before your contract was up you would have to repay. I would be tempted to fight this, but let's see what advice others have to offer.

Also, you state you never signed anything with terms related to repaying the bonus. They can not claim you knew the terms they are enforcing.

By "terminating" you, did they break the contract? Perhaps you could sue. Did they say why they were terminating you? Hopefully they did not say for "cause".

--Nate

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Post by rcshouldis » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:57 am

Unless you were terminated for cause or simply quit your employer, I fail to see how this bonus becomes a legitimate claim for the company. If you were terminated for economic reasons you lived up to your end of the bargain in good faith and its a failure of the company, not you. Obviously, you'll have to consult with an attorney if the company continues to press for this money.

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Post by Indices » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:23 am

yobria wrote:That's such an awful story you've got an easy solution. Tell them you're going to write a press release, take the story to the papers, and set up a website telling the story.

They'll back down.

Nick


+1 I would definitely threaten to do this. This is outrageous behavior on their part.

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Post by Watty » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:37 am

Without knowing the details it is hard to say, but once you have a lawyer, binding arbitration woul be an option to consider too.

Greg

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Re: Am I Required to Repay Signing Bonus

Post by 555 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:12 pm

Just read the OP for yourself. It's pretty obvious.
Cosmo wrote:Um. You might want to elaborate a little bit more on that, 555.

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Post by gunn_show » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:52 pm

retiredjg wrote:That sure is a strange arrangement. They actually have a $15k incentive to fire you at 2 years, 10 months. It would make sense if you were voluntarily leaving, but this way sounds a little fishy to me.


Ditto. They fired you, you did not leave. Bogus request.

Tell them to pound sand and threaten with a lawyer and huge social media blitz to make them look bad.

As another person said, they probably make this attempt every time, in hopes a few actually give it back without question. I bet it works. Kind of like denying medical claims until you don't give up.
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Re: Am I Required to Repay Signing Bonus

Post by the intruder » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:57 pm

Abciximab wrote:I was terminated from my job just two months shy of fulfilling my three year contract I signed when I began. The physical paper contract that I signed only stated the amount of the bonus, that the length of the contract was three years, and the market I agreed to work in.

I was contacted by the company's accounting department and asked to repay the full $15,000 signing bonus. Before I signed, a company representative verbally told me that if I left before the three years were up I would have to repay a prorated bonus. I mentioned this to the accounting department, and they provided me with a document of the contract/bonus terms. In this document it clearly states that if leaving before the contract term expires I would be responsible for repaying the full amount of the bonus. I had never seen these terms before, and I most definitely never signed any document that reflected those terms.

So I guess my question is, should I repay the full amount or refuse? I'm all about being fair, and I'd be more than happy to pay a prorated amount based on the two months I fell short, but it seems ridiculously unfair to be on the hook for $15k becuase of two months. And as I said, I was under the impression that it would be prorated AND I never signed any document that stated any specific repayment terms. The terms state that if I don't pay the full amount the account the document reads "in the event employee fails to fully satisfy any portion of this repayment obligation, the company may refer collection to a collection agency, and employee shall then be responsible for all fees incurred by in connection with such collection, including any attorney's fees and court costs."

Do I bite the bullet and pay the full $15k, or do I refuse to pay and let it go to collections? I don't care about my credit score right now, so if I could possibly negotiate a lesser amount with the collection agency I'd be all for it. Or will they just sue me for the $15k? As anyone out there gone through something like this before? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


You are only liable to pay back a portion of or the entire bonus if you signed a document obligating you to pay the funds back if you terminated prior to 3 years.

Question 1 What does the document you signed say about the conditions under which you are obligated to pay back your signeing bonus, not what some document accounting has in files says.

Question 2. Do you have a copy of the signed document or an original in your possession?

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Abciximab
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Post by Abciximab » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:28 pm

Thanks everyone for the advice. I've never had to deal with any type of legal issue, so I have felt pretty lost.

I have a copy of the original document I signed. It only includes my name, amount of bonus, market I will work in, and that it's a three year contract. The document that has all the legal jargon was sent to me as a pdf when I originally questioned the bonus repayment. It has my name on the bottom and a check mark next to "I agree by the above terms and will abide by such terms." It was about three years ago, but I do not remember ever seeing this document.

So basically all they have is an electronic acknowledgement with my name on it and (maybe) the original agreement I signed that did not have any repayment terms. It sounds like the best course of action would be to find a lawyer and see what I can do. Also, I think I should close my checking account just in case.

I was fired on a technicality. The kind of thing that I had no idea I was doing wrong that would normally never result in termination. Usually it would be a warning, but the company is trying to cut staff, and instead of offering severances or doing layoffs, they've been picking people off one by one on nonsense "code of conduct" violations. The more I think about it the more angry it makes me... I'm definitely going to fight this. Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciate the help.
An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest - Benjamin Franklin

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Abciximab
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Post by Abciximab » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:37 pm

Also, the electronic document they sent me as a pdf reads that "this document shall be governed and enforced according to the laws of the State of Illinois." I live and work in Arizona, so not sure if that matters, but we'll see. Thanks again.
An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest - Benjamin Franklin

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Watty
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Post by Watty » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:46 pm

....I was fired on a technicality. ....



Do you know if you will be able to collect unemploymnet or not? You may need to work a laywer to get this too.

GReg

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DiscoBunny1979
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Post by DiscoBunny1979 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:30 pm

Another can of worms this opens is that relating to taxes you paid on the $15,000. Did you pay taxes on the income 3 years ago? Usually one can ammend a tax return that is no older than 3 years if I am correct. Therefore, can someone ammend a tax return paying back $15,000 that was given as "income" in a certain tax year? If one can not ammend the taxes to get the taxes back, then I would look into counter sueing the company for the amount of taxes you paid on the bonus. I definately wouldn't pay the full $15K back . . only what was received after taxes and let the company get the remainder back from the IRS.

the intruder
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Post by the intruder » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:45 pm

DiscoBunny1979 wrote:Another can of worms this opens is that relating to taxes you paid on the $15,000. Did you pay taxes on the income 3 years ago? Usually one can ammend a tax return that is no older than 3 years if I am correct. Therefore, can someone ammend a tax return paying back $15,000 that was given as "income" in a certain tax year? If one can not ammend the taxes to get the taxes back, then I would look into counter sueing the company for the amount of taxes you paid on the bonus. I definately wouldn't pay the full $15K back . . only what was received after taxes and let the company get the remainder back from the IRS.


It doesnt matter what year he returns the funds. Under IRC 1341 he can claim a tax credit or deduction for the year he returns the funds to the employer.

Scott1234
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Post by Scott1234 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:49 pm

Abciximab

Hey I realize this forum is a year old but this exact same thing just happened to me in Arizona with the same company/contract I believe. I was a year shy of my contract. I would love to know how you handled this and what the outcome has been. I've got the same electronic pdf file that they say I signed but don't remember the verbage this way and when I was hired the district supervisor specifically said that the contract was pro-rated. Any help would really be appreicated.

Scott

Rodc
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Post by Rodc » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:26 pm

Scott1234 wrote:Abciximab

Hey I realize this forum is a year old but this exact same thing just happened to me in Arizona with the same company/contract I believe. I was a year shy of my contract. I would love to know how you handled this and what the outcome has been. I've got the same electronic pdf file that they say I signed but don't remember the verbage this way and when I was hired the district supervisor specifically said that the contract was pro-rated. Any help would really be appreicated.

Scott


Suggest you try a PM.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

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krantcents
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Post by krantcents » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:46 pm

I would review your copy of the signed document. If it does not address repayment, you may ask the company to check that too. I would not repay the total amount unless I agreed to it in the original contract. If they don't back off, you may need an attorney to represent you. You do not want them to turn it over to collections or go to court. Good luck.

markpa
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Post by markpa » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:03 am

here's another tip. If the contract said laws of Illinois apply, is the company from IL? Do they have an office there?

If not, I'll bet they used a boilerplate or downloaded some contract posted on the internet and forgot to replace all the fields.

Ashamed to admit I did just that. We had a lawsuit and our attorney said if the defense wants to push the issue, they can ask to have the suit moved to the other state and he's seen that done.

Just saying that their legal fees might be much higher if pursued from IL.......

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