Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't either

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
jasonp99
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Re: Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't eith

Post by jasonp99 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:35 am

richard wrote:
jasonp99 wrote:If all you are doing is downloading stock/fund prices you can do that automatically using a Perl script to interface to Yahoo finance and then generate a QIF file you can read into Quicken. I do this using with a script under Mac OS X to get data into my 2002 version of Quicken. Not trivial to setup unless you are familiar with Perl and scripting.
Are you importing a QIF file for investment accounts with just the date, security and price fields filled in? Or are you doing something else?
Yes, that's pretty much what the script generates. Here's a sample:

!Type:Prices
"BAC",16.78,"1/8/2010",17.10,16.63,220104608
"BBI",0.70,"1/8/2010",0.765,0.70,1499800
"CAMOX",16.24,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"CHS",14.47,"1/8/2010",14.70,14.24,2373959
"C",3.59,"1/8/2010",3.67,3.51,624097664
"TAN",11.28,"1/8/2010",11.34,11.1375,457529
"DELL",14.85,"1/8/2010",14.92,14.71,17641536
"DODFX",32.94,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"UMBIX",45.00,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"FAGIX",8.85,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"FDCAX",22.29,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"FFTYX",15.61,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"FIGRX",31.35,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"FSMVX",13.33,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"FRESX",20.11,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"FSICX",10.94,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"FSLXX",0.15%,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"VBR",56.239,"1/8/2010",56.24,55.79,178410
"VTIVX",12.36,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
"VTI",58.04,"1/8/2010",58.0461,57.56,1650019
"ULE.L",22.17,"1/8/2010",N/A,N/A,N/A
^

Generating this takes literally less than 2 seconds. It can be imported directly into Quicken. The last stock is from the London exchange so once I get the price and dollar/pound ratio from Yahoo I convert the price from pounds (or pence, I forget) to dollars. If you have access to Perl I can send you the script.

jasonp99
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Post by jasonp99 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:52 am

mikep wrote:After I saw this with MS Money I find I have no need for their services. Pencil and paper in my checkbook and excel for investments work just as good. Oh, and excel never "expires" either. Plus I don't have that worry any more about someone hacking into my computer and stealing all the passwords.
Quicken still "works" after the download functionality expires, it seems people think this is not true. You can enter in transactions manually and there is no difference in the result in Quicken, you can generate all the reports you want, no change there. You just can't auto-download new transactions. Surely this is still better than pen/paper/Excel.

If you happen to have a version of Quicken that supports QIF for all accounts (I don't know the year this ended) you can download QIF files yourself (every credit card I've ever used supports QIF download) and upload those into Quicken. Your stuck though if you can only get QFX (have to convert to QIF yourself) or your version of Quicken doesn't fully support QIF.

I'm still using the 2002 version of Quicken on my 2002 Mac. At some point my Mac will die and I'll get an Intel Mac which won't run my Quicken so at that point I'll be forced to either buy a new version of Quicken (and then have to buy updates every 3 years because I won't be able to do QIF importing like I do now) or use an alternative program/service.

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Lbill
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Post by Lbill » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:57 am

Any concerns about just using the "free" services like Mint? Why not just go that route and chuck Quicken? Yes, they might start charging a fee, but you're paying that now with Quicken software anyhow.
"Life can only be understood backward; but it must be lived forward." ~ Søren Kierkegaard | | "You can't connect the dots looking forward; but only by looking backwards." ~ Steve Jobs

sscritic
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Post by sscritic » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:20 am

jasonp99 wrote: I'm still using the 2002 version of Quicken on my 2002 Mac. At some point my Mac will die and I'll get an Intel Mac which won't run my Quicken.
Every intel Mac has Rosetta to run non-intel apps. While the newest models with Snow Leopard don't install Rosetta by default, it is automatically installed the first time you try and run an app that is not universal. I run quicken 2006 on my latest model iMac.

It is another commentary on Quicken that they do not have an intel version out yet, when according to wikipedia:
"As of March 2008, all high-profile applications for Mac OS X have been ported to Universal binary."

We are now approaching two years after most decent software companies finished porting their apps, but Quicken is still a laggard.

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magellan
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Post by magellan » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:30 pm

We've pretty much beat this one to death, but for fun I thought it might be interesting to take a look at Intuit's latest annual report.

Image


Apparently, Quicken revenue is so small and inconsequential that it's lumped into their "Other Business" category.

Out of total annual revenue of around $3.2 billion, less than $160 million or 5% came from Quicken. It's probably much less than that because they lump a bunch of other stuff into the "Other Business" product category along with Quicken.

What I don't understand is why Intuit is so intent on hurting their brand over a revenue stream that's so small and declining. Frankly, it makes no sense whatsoever. If you look at the Quicken product reviews on Amazon, it's a pretty sad story for Intuit and a lot of the anger has to do with their sunset policy.

Jim

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Post by sscritic » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:40 pm

magellan wrote: Apparently, Quicken revenue is so small and inconsequential that it's lumped into their "Other Business" category.
Unless they put the fees they charge banks for licensing under 'Financial Institutions," in which case quicken could account for 19% of revenue.

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magellan
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Post by magellan » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:53 pm

sscritic wrote:
magellan wrote: Apparently, Quicken revenue is so small and inconsequential that it's lumped into their "Other Business" category.
Unless they put the fees they charge banks for licensing under 'Financial Institutions," in which case quicken could account for 19% of revenue.
Based on their descriptions of the categories, it doesn't look like the licensing revenue is in there. If it is, it's probably no where near 10%.
Intuit annual report wrote: Financial Institutions
Our Digital Insight business provides outsourced online banking offerings that are hosted in our data centers and delivered as on-demand services to small and medium-sized financial institutions. No single financial institution accounted for more than 10% of this segment’s total net revenue in fiscal 2009, 2008 or 2007.

Consumer Banking. We offer Internet banking services that financial institutions make available to their retail customers. These services include the ability to view transaction history, account balances, check images and statements; funds transfer between accounts; inter-institutional transfers; bill payment and bill presentment; and Personal FinanceWorks, our comprehensive online personal financial management solution.

Business Banking. We also offer Internet banking services that financial institutions make available to their business customers. These services include features similar to those of our consumer offering as well as lockbox reporting; payroll direct deposit; wire and inter-account fund transfers; account reconciliations; foreign exchange trade; and Small Business FinanceWorks, our comprehensive online business financial management solution.
Still, it would be nice to know how much the download fee/licensing part of the business brings in.

I'll see if I can find something more conclusive in the annual report...

Jim

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LadyGeek
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Post by LadyGeek » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:02 pm

I find it an interesting read to note who they consider their competition (start at page 11).

However, you can't simply say that Quicken's revenue is inconsequential to the business based on total %. It depends on how the internal funding works. Each business unit / department has to stand on its own.

Quicken sales were down 15% in 2009 (page 41). The anger has to do with a poor quality product (my interpretation of their "reduction in consumer spending"). However, I'll be upgrading to 2010 because I need to.

I just got the same Service Alert as DRiP Guy. The offer from Quicken ($20 off) is cheaper than Amazon.
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Post by DaveH » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:18 pm

Do we have a definitive answer about what, exactly, is disable when Quicken reaches it's 3-year point? I'm confused about what is disabled, but it seems unlikely that Iniuit (even with their clunky customer service, etc. ) would disable features for no reason.

I thought that only the online/download parts stop working - is that not true?
The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the gods. — Socrates

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magellan
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Post by magellan » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:23 pm

DaveH wrote:Do we have a definitive answer about what, exactly, is disable when Quicken reaches it's 3-year point? I'm confused about what is disabled, but it seems unlikely that Iniuit (even with their clunky customer service, etc. ) would disable features for no reason.

I thought that only the online/download parts stop working - is that not true?
Sort of. If you download transactions from your bank or credit card into a file and store it on your desktop, then try to import the transactions from that file, Quicken will block the import after 3 years.

IMO, this is the single biggest issue people have with the sunset policy. You're basically trying to import data from a file on your desktop and Quicken blocks you from doing that.

Jim

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Post by LadyGeek » Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:26 pm

From the Quicken discontinuation policy:
Q. What Quicken 2006 services were discontinued on April 30, 2010?

The following services to Quicken 2007 were discontinued on April 30, 2010:

* Online bill pay
* Downloading financial data from your bank, credit union, credit card, brokerage, 401(k) or mutual fund accounts
* Downloading stock quotes, news headlines and other financial information into Quicken
* Uploading portfolio information from Quicken to Quicken.com
* Access to the investing features on Quicken.com including portfolio tracking, any watch lists you have created, One-Click Scorecard™, Stock Evaluator and Mutual Fund Evaluator.
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jasonp99
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Post by jasonp99 » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:37 am

sscritic wrote:
jasonp99 wrote: I'm still using the 2002 version of Quicken on my 2002 Mac. At some point my Mac will die and I'll get an Intel Mac which won't run my Quicken.
Every intel Mac has Rosetta to run non-intel apps. While the newest models with Snow Leopard don't install Rosetta by default, it is automatically installed the first time you try and run an app that is not universal. I run quicken 2006 on my latest model iMac.
Ahhh, interesting! Since I don't have an Intel Mac I had forgotten all about Rosetta. Thanks for the info!

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And for Mac

Post by TStockmann » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:25 am

My Quicken 2007 for Mac has compatibility issues with my financial institutions - and all Intuit is willing to do for Mac with the next update in February is a stripped-down "Quicken Essentials" versions. I'll be looking for a different PF programs as well.

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verbose
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Post by verbose » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:13 am

I have Quicken for Mac 2006. I've been looking for a different finance program for over a year now. Though there are competitors, they can't handle my existing data. At least, that was my conclusion last summer when I threw up my hands in disgust. I even bought iBank because the demo worked so well. But my attempts to import my data brought it to its knees, speed-wise, and the import had serious corruption issues.

Although Quicken is an easy target, we have to remember that personal finance is about the data, the data, the data, and then the features. Any software that can't reliably handle the data is useless. I've made a couple stabs at writing my own personal finance database, and it's more complicated than I'd expected. There aren't that many database engines for the Mac that are able to handle it. Quicken has its own embedded database engine, and this is largely the feature that allowed it to gain the market share it now has.

If I ever find a suitable PF replacement for Quicken on the Mac, I'll be sure to post it here.

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Post by sscritic » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:48 am

verbose wrote:I have Quicken for Mac 2006. I've been looking for a different finance program for over a year now. Though there are competitors, they can't handle my existing data. At least, that was my conclusion last summer when I threw up my hands in disgust. I even bought iBank because the demo worked so well. But my attempts to import my data brought it to its knees, speed-wise, and the import had serious corruption issues.

Although Quicken is an easy target, we have to remember that personal finance is about the data, the data, the data, and then the features. Any software that can't reliably handle the data is useless. I've made a couple stabs at writing my own personal finance database, and it's more complicated than I'd expected. There aren't that many database engines for the Mac that are able to handle it. Quicken has its own embedded database engine, and this is largely the feature that allowed it to gain the market share it now has.

If I ever find a suitable PF replacement for Quicken on the Mac, I'll be sure to post it here.
I have been testing GnuCash http://www.gnucash.org/ on my intel Mac.

I was able to import four years of Quicken data, but I had to try twice. The key was setting up accounts in GnuCash that matched my quicken accounts before importing the data.

http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_Whi ... 28TM.29.3F
Start by making an account tree in Gnucash. There is a druid to help you, but keep at this stage to very similar names as you have used for categories and accounts in Quicken. Next export your Quicken data to a QIF format. Save this file. From the Gnucash menu select File > Import > Import QIF. Open your QIF file and follow the prompts. Match each category very carefully to your Account tree. Clicking on a highlighted line will allow you to choose from your new account tree. Match as much as you can. Then complete the import process. Look at the results and be prepared to alter the account structure and start again if you have too many "Unspecified" entries.

An alternative approach to creating the account tree in Gnucash first is to include your categories and accounts in Quicken's QIF export. This option is available in many versions of Quicken. If you have this data in the QIF file, Gnucash will create your accounts automatically. After the import is completed, you can edit individual Gnucash accounts and reassign them as needed.
GnuCash uses Perl DBI as its database and Perl Finance::Quote to get prices. GnuCash uses libofx/aqbanking for OFX/QFX support.

gnucash-2.2.9 is available as a DMG installer from http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnucash/files/

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Post by teejayevans » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:17 pm

I got the same msg for my quicken 2000 basic, still using it minus
the auto update quote feature, using openoffice with auto update of
stock quotes to track my portfolio. I stopped using turbotax as
well I was so angry, now using TaxAct.
TJ

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rustymutt
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Post by rustymutt » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:00 pm

Yodlee? I hate to brust your bubble, but guess who owns Yodlee?





just kidding!

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Post by sscritic » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:16 pm

rcasement wrote:Yodlee? I hate to brust your bubble, but guess who owns Yodlee?





just kidding!
Mint is Yodlee's YouTube!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00975.html

Actually, according to the article, mint will no longer use Yodlee for aggregating account information.
The final insult: Yodlee won't even be able to collect those small fees any longer from Mint. Intuit has it's own back-end account aggregation service that it will use instead of Yodlee.
This however gives us an incentive to use Yodlee, as they will have no connection to Intuit whatsoever.

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Post by LadyGeek » Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:44 pm

I just got my forced upgrade to Quicken 2010. There's no need to register the program to use online services (it forces you to supply personal info). Here's how to bypass the registration screen:

Quicken Bypass Registration

If you want Quicken to stop prompting you to register your software, you can do the following:

1. Press and hold the Ctrl + Shift keys on the left side of your keyboard, and select Tools, then One Step Update.
2. When the message “You will no longer be prompted for registration” appears, click OK.

I'd call it an undocumented command (easter egg). This worked for Quicken 2005, Quicken 2007, now Quicken 2010.

To further reduce the annoying ads: View --> Tabs to Show --> Uncheck "More from Quicken".

First impressions - not as bad as I thought, slightly better interface than Quicken 2007.
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