Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't either

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DRiP Guy
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Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't either

Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:51 pm

(All of the following is my own opinion and impressions, as a consumer of a commercially sold product, and do not reflect on Bogleheads, or anyone else. Except Intuit.)


I just turned on my fully licensed, fully patched fully paid for two and a half year old program, Intuit's Quicken 2007.

They sent the following message, informing me that they are going to DISABLE my current functionality, that I already paid for.

My current software is between me and my institutions. I don't use Intuit's resources, servers, bandwidth, etc, and yet they are going to reach out and disable MY software on MY computer, that I already paid for, in an attempt to extort even more money out of me?

They are insane if they think I will ever do business with them again, and I hope they all DIAF.

Crippling software, and extorting consumers is not a viable business model.


Image

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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:58 pm

BTW,

I had already 'test driven' Mint, a totally free alternative to Quicken, and I love it.

I am not affiliated with Mint in any way, except having tried it, but their slogan is starting to make perfect sense to me now!


Image

Link to Mint:
http://www.mint.com/


So long, Intuit!


PS -- What would be a terrific stick in the eye to Intuit would be if the guys at Mint were able to import my current Quicken info. Man, if they could do that, IMHO, Quicken would instantly collapse like the empty sack it really is.

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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:00 pm

Oh, and because of this amazing outrage, no Turbotax for you from me this year either, Intuit, discounted for Vanguard customers or not!


Quickbooks for small business? Ha. I'd sooner close the business, or use a spiral notebook ledger first.

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Post by fishndoc » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:03 pm

I have a better (worse) story:

About 5 years after I bought my Chevy Surburban (most $ I have ever paid for a vehicle), I got a letter from GM that the On-Star system would no longer work with my car (On-Star was an important selling point for me at the time I bought it)
But, the letter went on, GM had good news for me: they would be happy to give me a good deal on a new Chevy with an OnStar system that would work. :evil:

Never again, will I buy GM!
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Post by kpanghmc » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:04 pm

I don't want to burst your bubble, but Intuit owns Mint...so by using Mint you are still putting money in Intuit's pockets. Granted, Mint is free to use, but the advertising money is still going to Intuit.
Last edited by kpanghmc on Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by sscritic » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:05 pm

DRiP Guy wrote:BTW,

I had already 'test driven' Mint, a totally free alternative to Quicken, and I love it.
Um, err, ah, well, guess who owns mint?

http://blog.quicken.intuit.com/announce ... -mint-com/

Would you like to try again?

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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:07 pm

kpanghmc wrote:I don't want to burst your bubble, but Intuit owns Mint...so by using Mint you are still putting money in Intuit's pockets.
Thanks very much for that info, I did not know it, but should have suspected that they would have snatched up a totally worthy competitor.

They are probably perfectly happy to keep it on the QT.

For now, it's still free, so someone else is putting the money in their pockets, whether it is ad revenue or the institutions, so I can live with that, even while I start to look for someone who, to borrow from Google's old motto is committed to a policy like:

"Don't be evil."

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DRiP Guy
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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:08 pm

sscritic wrote:
DRiP Guy wrote:BTW,

I had already 'test driven' Mint, a totally free alternative to Quicken, and I love it.
Um, err, ah, well, guess who owns mint?

http://blog.quicken.intuit.com/announce ... -mint-com/

Would you like to try again?
Yup, just figured that out, thanks to the fine folks here.

Does not surprise me, just like a certain SW giant out of Redmond used to buy up and then bury their competitors, too.

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Post by MWCA » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:10 pm

Just curious.


Did you call them and ask for your money back? Some companies might do this.

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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:16 pm

Given their history of shenanigans, it is clear that they see consumers as wallets, or idiots to be fleeced, and not as people to be respected, and build a relationship with, IMHO.

Take a look at this, for instance:
Criticism and controversies

Intuit has generated controversy with some of its business practice decisions. Cases of criticism from users and reviewers include the company's phasing-out of support for the ubiquitous QIF format in favor of the QFX format. These formats are used for downloading information from financial institutions such as banks and brokerages. While use of QIF was free, banks are required to pay a licensing fee to Intuit if they wish to allow their customers the ability to download financial data in the QFX format.[23]

In 2007, Intuit lobbied to make sure taxpayers cannot file their tax returns directly to the IRS by negotiating a deal that has the IRS promising not to set up its own Web portal for e-filing.[24]

In 2009, the Los Angeles Times reported that Intuit spent nearly $2 million in political contributions to eliminate free online state tax filing for low income residences in California.[25]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intuit#Cri ... troversies


IMHO, what they are doing feels and ought to be ilegal, although I am sure the EULA gives them the right to do not only this, but to come in and take my first born, too.

:(

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Post by tim1999 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:17 pm

fishndoc wrote:I have a better (worse) story:

About 5 years after I bought my Chevy Surburban (most $ I have ever paid for a vehicle), I got a letter from GM that the On-Star system would no longer work with my car (On-Star was an important selling point for me at the time I bought it)
But, the letter went on, GM had good news for me: they would be happy to give me a good deal on a new Chevy with an OnStar system that would work. :evil:

Never again, will I buy GM!
I can understand your frustration, as my parents owned a car with the "old" OnStar that no longer worked after the change. However, it was not entirely GM's fault. The original OnStar used analog cell phone technology which has pretty much been eliminated in the USA. To continue offering OnStar they had to change to digital.

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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:18 pm

MWCA wrote:Just curious.


Did you call them and ask for your money back? Some companies might do this.
No, but I will - thanks for the idea!

I don't anticipate a positive response, but I will make the symbolic gesture, and report back here on their response.

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Post by LadyGeek » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:28 pm

Heads up - Amazon won't honor refunds for software downloads. See the review here: Quicken Deluxe download

This is the first time I've seen pricing for downloads higher than the box product. $45.12 download, $44.00 for the box with free shipping.

I have Quicken 2007 and just did an update (not the software, just checking online downloads). No notice about support stopping. Maybe it's because I never registered it.

Update: Clarified post about updates.
Last edited by LadyGeek on Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:36 pm

LadyGeek wrote:Heads up - Amazon won't honor refunds for software downloads. See the review here: Quicken Deluxe download

This is the first time I've seen pricing for downloads higher than the box product. $45.12 download, $44.00 for the box with free shipping.

I have Quicken 2007 and just did an update. No notice about support stopping. Maybe it's because I never registered it.
Thanks for the information!

That's a terrible shame to have bought it even more recently than I did and get bupkis.

:cry:

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oneleaf
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Post by oneleaf » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:37 pm

kpanghmc wrote:I don't want to burst your bubble, but Intuit owns Mint...so by using Mint you are still putting money in Intuit's pockets. Granted, Mint is free to use, but the advertising money is still going to Intuit.
Luckily there is an alternative: Yodlee

In fact, Mint uses Yodlee as a backend. So why not go straight to Yodlee and use their service? I am a happy user.

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Re: Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't eith

Post by verbose » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:31 pm

DRiP Guy wrote:My current software is between me and my institutions. I don't use Intuit's resources, servers, bandwidth, etc, and yet they are going to reach out and disable MY software on MY computer, that I already paid for, in an attempt to extort even more money out of me?
Um, no, they aren't going to reach out and touch your computer. The functionality they are no longer going to support either uses their servers, their resources or their protocols, all of which are continually developing and changing. Your financial institutions are probably using libraries developed by Intuit to provide you with downloaded transactions. If Quicken 2007 support disappears from the library updates they receive, then there's not much they can do about it.

I've worked on the other side of this formula, as a software developer. With each version of the software, things change, some visible to the user, most not. Quicken 2007 doesn't necessarily download transactions the same way that newer versions do. The software that Intuit licenses to financial institutions has to handle all supported versions of Quicken. Eventually, older versions have to be let go because they cost more in support than they win in user goodwill.

Every old version that is supported requires current resources for support, regression testing, and bug fixing. Further, new design is often hampered by old design, much of which was made by a developer now long gone (and universally trashed by the current development team).

Supporting old versions also means that there must be developers who still know that old version of code and are willing to work in it. How many of the original developers of Quicken 2007 still work at Intuit? And even if they do, making them support old versions is a good way to encourage them to leave. The Great Recession will stem some of that flow, but not all of it. Once a developer is pigeonholed as the "2007 version go-to guy," his only way to move his career forward is to start fresh at a new company or convince management to drop support for that old version.

Here's the misconduct: Intuit should have included the "sunset" date prominently in the original software packaging. They'd been doing this for enough years that they knew it would happen, and could probably guess when. I'm sure the license agreement gives them complete leeway in this matter, but that's just sneaky to put something that important in the license agreement.

Further, your disgruntlement suggests another failure by Intuit. Why is it Intuit hasn't made enough improvements or additions to Quicken 2008, 2009 or 2010 to make it worth your money to upgrade? Three versions and you still have no reason to want a newer one? That's just pathetic on Intuit's part.

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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:52 pm

Thanks for the excellent and insightful post, verbose.

Of course, I hope I can be excused for feeling more aligned with the last parts than the earlier part, although I am sure the points are all valid.

As we do agree, making customers angry is not a good formula for success.

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Qui

Post by DaveH » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:54 pm

verbose wrote:
DRiP Guy wrote:My current software is between me and my institutions. I don't use Intuit's resources, servers, bandwidth, etc, and yet they are going to reach out and disable MY software on MY computer, that I already paid for, in an attempt to extort even more money out of me?
Um, no, they aren't going to reach out and touch your computer. The functionality they are no longer going to support either uses their servers, their resources or their protocols, all of which are continually developing and changing. Your financial institutions are probably using libraries developed by Intuit to provide you with downloaded transactions. If Quicken 2007 support disappears from the library updates they receive, then there's not much they can do about it.

I've worked on the other side of this formula, as a software developer. With each version of the software, things change, some visible to the user, most not. Quicken 2007 doesn't necessarily download transactions the same way that newer versions do. The software that Intuit licenses to financial institutions has to handle all supported versions of Quicken. Eventually, older versions have to be let go because they cost more in support than they win in user goodwill.

Every old version that is supported requires current resources for support, regression testing, and bug fixing. Further, new design is often hampered by old design, much of which was made by a developer now long gone (and universally trashed by the current development team).

Supporting old versions also means that there must be developers who still know that old version of code and are willing to work in it. How many of the original developers of Quicken 2007 still work at Intuit? And even if they do, making them support old versions is a good way to encourage them to leave. The Great Recession will stem some of that flow, but not all of it. Once a developer is pigeonholed as the "2007 version go-to guy," his only way to move his career forward is to start fresh at a new company or convince management to drop support for that old version.

Here's the misconduct: Intuit should have included the "sunset" date prominently in the original software packaging. They'd been doing this for enough years that they knew it would happen, and could probably guess when. I'm sure the license agreement gives them complete leeway in this matter, but that's just sneaky to put something that important in the license agreement.

Further, your disgruntlement suggests another failure by Intuit. Why is it Intuit hasn't made enough improvements or additions to Quicken 2008, 2009 or 2010 to make it worth your money to upgrade? Three versions and you still have no reason to want a newer one? That's just pathetic o
n Intuit's part.

Thank god someone posted that perspective. I agree and Intuit should have mentioned to users that they are sunsetting products, but beyond that I don't have any issues with them. I use Quickbooks a lot and a week ago I was told that they were sunsetting Quickboks 2007 - they offered my an upgrade for $149 which is a great deal for the utility and quality of the software.

These banking integrations cost millions and millions to develop and support. It's not fair to demonize Intuit for not wanting to support old versions (although they should announce it earlier, yes).
The fewer our wants, the nearer we resemble the gods. — Socrates

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Post by LadyGeek » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:57 pm

And here's the official Quicken discontinuation policy. I need to upgrade before April 30, 2010.

Not much choice, it's invaluable to help me keep my parent's finances in order. They're looking to me to provide occasional help. Without automated downloads, I wouldn't have a clue what's going on.
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Re: Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't eith

Post by ascenzm » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:10 pm

DRiP Guy wrote:(All of the following is my own opinion and impressions, as a consumer of a commercially sold product, and do not reflect on Bogleheads, or anyone else. Except Intuit.)


I just turned on my fully licensed, fully patched fully paid for two and a half year old program, Intuit's Quicken 2007.

They sent the following message, informing me that they are going to DISABLE my current functionality, that I already paid for.

My current software is between me and my institutions. I don't use Intuit's resources, servers, bandwidth, etc, and yet they are going to reach out and disable MY software on MY computer, that I already paid for, in an attempt to extort even more money out of me?

They are insane if they think I will ever do business with them again, and I hope they all DIAF.

Crippling software, and extorting consumers is not a viable business model.


Image
I'm a Quicken owner and have been running Quicken since 1998. The only automated feature I use with Quicken is allowing it to download mutual fund prices on a weekly basis. I've noticed that once a Quicken version reaches three years of age, Intuit has dropped support for downloading mutual fund prices. I could keep using the old Quicken version and manually enter the mutual fund prices, but I simply choose to purchase a new version of Quicken every three years.

I owned Quicken 2004 before Quicken 2007 which I currently use. I expect that I'll be buying Quicken 2010. I figure the cost of buying a new version of Quicken every three years is a small price to pay for convenience.

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Post by Elysium » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:11 pm

This is not a huge deal actually. Every software company does it. Do you ever complain having to upgrade your Microsoft Windows every few years? Or having to upgrade your PC every few years? Software companies need to make money, especially one or two product company like Intuit. They are not asking you to upgrade every year, they are only asking you to upgrade every 3 or 4 years. Microsoft Money did this to me as well couple of times. It's not very expensive to buy the product anyway, $40 to $50 every 3 or 4 years, only you can decide what is it worth to you. I just like the convenience of keeping my software that I have been using for many years, so I'll gladly pay $40 every few years or so.

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Re: Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't eith

Post by sscritic » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:23 pm

verbose wrote:
DRiP Guy wrote:My current software is between me and my institutions. I don't use Intuit's resources, servers, bandwidth, etc, and yet they are going to reach out and disable MY software on MY computer, that I already paid for, in an attempt to extort even more money out of me?
Um, no, they aren't going to reach out and touch your computer. The functionality they are no longer going to support either uses their servers, their resources or their protocols, all of which are continually developing and changing. Your financial institutions are probably using libraries developed by Intuit to provide you with downloaded transactions. If Quicken 2007 support disappears from the library updates they receive, then there's not much they can do about it.
I don't believe this is the issue.

Try this test if you have a financial institution that does not use directconnect, but uses web connect.
1) Go the the website using your browser.
2) Download a qfx file with your transactions.
3) Disconnect from the internet.
4) Try to import your qfx into Quicken.

Try the same test with Gnucash.

Quicken will not let you import a file you have already downloaded if they can't check to see if your institution has paid the tax for your version. You have to be online for them to check. Once you have the file from your institution on your computer, you should be able to import it into Quicken without an internet connection, but Quicken won't allow that. In essence, my version has the ability to import, but needs quicken's permission to actually do so.

Gnucash has no problem importing the same file while not connected to the internet.

I have switched to Gnucash in anticipation of my version of Quicken for Mac expiring. (I am actually using both side-by-side while I get experience).

I could be wrong, but this has been my experience. I have not been able to import a qfx file while disconnected from the internet. It has nothing to do with the file produced by my institution or my version of Quicken; it has to do with Quicken checking to see if my version of Quicken will be allowed to import the file I have already downloaded.

Since I admit I might be wrong, I hope that one of you will try it. Download the file from your financial institution, disconnect from the internet; and try to import the file. Please report back your results.

If I am correct, this is worse than Microsoft. While Microsoft wants you to upgrade and produces new incompatible file versions, they don't check your version and stop you from reading and writing compatible files. Intuit will stop you from using files that actually function perfectly.

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Re: Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't eith

Post by jpsfranks » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:31 pm

verbose wrote:
DRiP Guy wrote:My current software is between me and my institutions. I don't use Intuit's resources, servers, bandwidth, etc, and yet they are going to reach out and disable MY software on MY computer, that I already paid for, in an attempt to extort even more money out of me?
Um, no, they aren't going to reach out and touch your computer. The functionality they are no longer going to support either uses their servers, their resources or their protocols, all of which are continually developing and changing. Your financial institutions are probably using libraries developed by Intuit to provide you with downloaded transactions. If Quicken 2007 support disappears from the library updates they receive, then there's not much they can do about it.
Good lord, we are talking about Quicken 2007, not Quicken 1997. I would never tie myself deep into some piece of software that was going to cripple itself after a few years. Sunsetting support for software doesn't mean that there has to be a hard cutoff date after which it no longer functions.

Having never used Quicken, I'm not sure exactly how the downloads work, but it seems to me that version support should be up to the financial institution, not to Quicken. When your bank stops supporting a version, then you may have to upgrade. But I don't see why this has to be some date forced by Intuit. If they've architected things in such a way that you're downloading via their servers and not directly from your financial institution, then that seems like a deliberate decision by them in order to pull this kind of thing.

I understand that it is lucrative for them to force upgrades, and that is their decision, but I'm surprised that anyone would jump to their defense.

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Re: Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't eith

Post by cjackson0 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:43 pm

jpsfranks wrote:
verbose wrote:
DRiP Guy wrote:My current software is between me and my institutions. I don't use Intuit's resources, servers, bandwidth, etc, and yet they are going to reach out and disable MY software on MY computer, that I already paid for, in an attempt to extort even more money out of me?
Um, no, they aren't going to reach out and touch your computer. The functionality they are no longer going to support either uses their servers, their resources or their protocols, all of which are continually developing and changing. Your financial institutions are probably using libraries developed by Intuit to provide you with downloaded transactions. If Quicken 2007 support disappears from the library updates they receive, then there's not much they can do about it.
Good lord, we are talking about Quicken 2007, not Quicken 1997. I would never tie myself deep into some piece of software that was going to cripple itself after a few years. Sunsetting support for software doesn't mean that there has to be a hard cutoff date after which it no longer functions.

Having never used Quicken, I'm not sure exactly how the downloads work, but it seems to me that version support should be up to the financial institution, not to Quicken. When your bank stops supporting a version, then you may have to upgrade. But I don't see why this has to be some date forced by Intuit. If they've architected things in such a way that you're downloading via their servers and not directly from your financial institution, then that seems like a deliberate decision by them in order to pull this kind of thing.

I understand that it is lucrative for them to force upgrades, and that is their decision, but I'm surprised that anyone would jump to their defense.
I agree. I tried using Quicken for a while but couldn't bring myself to buy it because of their unfriendly business practices. I am a software developer as well so I do understand their need to make money, but their attempt to perpetually lock customers in is absurd. If they want users to purchase new software every couple years, they should make a product you *WANT* to buy every couple years.

1. Make a good product
2. Charge a reasonable amount
3. People buy it

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Post by freebeer » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:47 pm

While verbose's comments are all accurate, I am in the software industry too, and from a business perspective it's well-known that Intuit pushes the envelope re: annual updates and aggressively "encouraging" customers to upgrade, primarily to maximize revenue, not because of support/development/server costs or engineers concerned about their careers.

The bottom line of the OP"s ire is timing: End of 2009 is way early to effectively neuter a popular 2007 product (and the "Premium" Quicken 2007 wasn't even released until mid 2007, only 2 1/2 years ago).

For example, Microsoft "mainstream" support for Office 2003 only ended last year (2009). AFAIK there are no major features of Office 2003 that have been disabled, and some of these do involve Microsoft servers (for installation of add-on language packs, etc.). Mac OS/X Snow Leopard was released in 2009, but the 2007 vintage Leopard is still fully supported by Apple and that will likely continue for at least another year.

The industry as a whole is moving towards online-based services with subscription business models, but we are at a transitional point: so long as Intuit is pricing and distributing solutions as shrink-wrap boxed products, they will be held accountable to norms relative to length of support. Clearly Intuit have made the business decision that angering folks like the OP by violating these norms is worth the incremental revenue they get from those that they've pushed to upgrade sooner. Given alternatives like Mint coming up, I'm not so sure they are right but if they are successful in moving folks to Quicken Online it will become a moot point eventually.

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Post by Jack » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:05 pm

This is nothing new. Both Quicken and Microsoft Money have consistently discontinued online downloads and technical support 3 1/4 years after release.

Code: Select all

Here are the dates older versions of Quicken were retired:

    * Quicken 2006 (Win) – April 30, 2009
    * Quicken 2005 (Win) – April 30, 2008
    * Quicken 2004 – April 30, 2007
    * Quicken 2003 – April 25, 2006
    * Quicken 2002 – April 19, 2005
    * Quicken 2001 – April 19, 2005
    * Quicken 2000 – May 18, 2004
    * Quicken 98 and 99 – April 20, 2004

Code: Select all

Microsoft provides connectivity and technical support for Money for approximately 3 years from release.

#
	Money Plus free technical support expires January 30, 2011.
#
	Money 2007 free technical support expires January 30, 2011.
#
	Money 2006 free technical support expired in September 2008.
#
	Money 2005 free technical support expired in September 2007.
#
	Money 2004 free technical support expired in October 2006.
#
	Money 2003 free technical support expired in December 2005.
#
	Money 2002 free technical support expired in September 2004.
#
	Money 2001 free technical support expired in September 2003.
#
	Money 2000 free technical support expired in January 2003.

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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:19 pm

LadyGeek wrote:And here's the official Quicken discontinuation policy. I need to upgrade before April 30, 2010.
Interesting. If this is their standard stance:
we are only able to maintain the systems that power these connected services for the current version (currently 2010) and the two prior versions. After that, only parts of Quicken that do not rely on connecting to the Internet will work.
Then you really aren't buying S/W, by my way of thinking, since connectivity is the whole critical point, instead, you are renting it for three years, with the promise of a dead data repository at the end of that term.

Thanks, but no thanks.

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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:21 pm

Dieharder wrote:This is not a huge deal actually. Every software company does it. Do you ever complain having to upgrade your Microsoft Windows every few years? Or having to upgrade your PC every few years? Software companies need to make money, especially one or two product company like Intuit. They are not asking you to upgrade every year, they are only asking you to upgrade every 3 or 4 years. Microsoft Money did this to me as well couple of times. It's not very expensive to buy the product anyway, $40 to $50 every 3 or 4 years, only you can decide what is it worth to you. I just like the convenience of keeping my software that I have been using for many years, so I'll gladly pay $40 every few years or so.
Semi-planned (but guaranteed) obsolescence.



:cry:



I guess I'm just a curmudgeon to expect better.

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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:23 pm

freebeer wrote: the "Premium" Quicken 2007 wasn't even released until mid 2007, only 2 1/2 years ago)
Exactly. I opted for the "premium" myself, and am still miffed although I am thankful for other's perspectives on this.

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Post by DRiP Guy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:42 pm

These are the approximate * durations until a person found Intuit had turned their Quicken off:

Image


Now, someone can claim this is technology driven, but it sure smells like marketing throttling the life-cycle to increase profitability to me.

I leave it to others to make their own assessment as to what Intuit was up to here.



* I did not take the time to get the actual release dates, so I gave Intuit the benefit of the doubt and used 1 Jan of each year as the availability date.

Jack
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Post by Jack » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:48 pm

DRiP Guy wrote:I did not take the time to get the actual release dates, so I gave Intuit the benefit of the doubt and used 1 Jan of each year as the availability date.
Typical release dates are the beginning of the fourth quarter of the previous year. For example Quicken 2007 was released in August 2006. The first update revision is usually released before the end of the previous year. For example Quicken 2007 R2 was released at the end of December 2006.

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DRiP Guy
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Post by DRiP Guy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:03 am

Jack wrote:Typical release dates are the beginning of the fourth quarter of the previous year. For example Quicken 2007 was released in August 2006. The first update revision is usually released before the end of the previous year. For example Quicken 2007 R2 was released at the end of December 2006.
Thanks. I figured if I used a constant, it would be 'good nuff fer gubbermint' and also tend to even out any minor release hitches unique to a given version and finally, would allow any bigger picture to come through.

Which I think is evident: They clearly, IMHO, purposely walked the 'expectation' for the life of this product from initially over six years, down to about three years, by boiling the frog slowly, implementing a multi-year STRATEGIC BUSINESS DECISION, and not a technology-driven necessity.

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Re: Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't eith

Post by jasonp99 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:10 am

ascenzm wrote:
I'm a Quicken owner and have been running Quicken since 1998. The only automated feature I use with Quicken is allowing it to download mutual fund prices on a weekly basis. I've noticed that once a Quicken version reaches three years of age, Intuit has dropped support for downloading mutual fund prices. I could keep using the old Quicken version and manually enter the mutual fund prices, but I simply choose to purchase a new version of Quicken every three years.
Mike
If all you are doing is downloading stock/fund prices you can do that automatically using a Perl script to interface to Yahoo finance and then generate a QIF file you can read into Quicken. I do this using with a script under Mac OS X to get data into my 2002 version of Quicken. Not trivial to setup unless you are familiar with Perl and scripting.

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Re: Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't eith

Post by jasonp99 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:14 am

sscritic wrote:
Quicken will not let you import a file you have already downloaded if they can't check to see if your institution has paid the tax for your version. You have to be online for them to check. Once you have the file from your institution on your computer, you should be able to import it into Quicken without an internet connection, but Quicken won't allow that. In essence, my version has the ability to import, but needs quicken's permission to actually do so.
I believe this is true for QFX files, but not for QIF files. I download QFX files from WellsFargo (because they don't support QIF) and translate them to QIF using a script. The resulting QIF imports into Quicken just fine.

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paulob
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Post by paulob » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:16 am

I have gone thru the same "outrage" with Quicken 2005. I let the support deadline lapse. I lost of lot of functionality by not having:
a) transaction downloads,
b) price quote downloads

While there is a workaround for both, in the final analysis, it wasn't worth not paying the ransom! ("proud" current user of 2009!)

It would have been so much more palatable if they discontinued the support, but allowed the downloads to continue (at my own risk).

I've got some rubber left in Q09 before I have to upgrade again. But I would not go the Mint route today. I don't want to risk a lot of history I have available in Quicken by migrating to another product, even a Quicken owned entity.[/i]
Paul

Ron
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Post by Ron » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:28 am

Funny thread :roll: ...

I just checked my budget. I have $5.50/month (e.g. $1.30/wk, $.18/day) to update both TT and Quicken on an annual basis, and have done so for many years.

Even in retirement, I can spare eighteen cents a day to keep a couple of software products that I consider important (in my financial life) running and up to date.

Much ado about nothing, IMHO :wink: ...

- Ron

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soaring
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Post by soaring » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:52 am

Ron wrote:Funny thread :roll: ...

I just checked my budget. I have $5.50/month (e.g. $1.30/wk, $.18/day) to update both TT and Quicken on an annual basis, and have done so for many years.

Even in retirement, I can spare eighteen cents a day to keep a couple of software products that I consider important (in my financial life) running and up to date.

Much ado about nothing, IMHO :wink: ...

- Ron
Totally agree and somehow using this forum to rant about a specific company doing nothing wrong seems out of character for the moderators to "continue" allowing.

But isn't it actually less than $5.50 monthly. 36 months use for around $50-60. Something around $1.50-1.75 monthly. I've happily used Quicken since 2000 and plan no changes. I was a bit bothered when they discontinued the basic Quicken but so what.

this thread, to me, sounds similar to the rant, IMHO, by those wanting to using TurboTax multiple times with one fee. TT changed and allowed it but still why shouldn't they make money for EACH use. Oh well.
Desiderata

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DRiP Guy
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Post by DRiP Guy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:44 am

Ron wrote:Funny thread :roll: ...

I just checked my budget. I have $5.50/month (e.g. $1.30/wk, $.18/day) to update both TT and Quicken on an annual basis, and have done so for many years.

Even in retirement, I can spare eighteen cents a day to keep a couple of software products that I consider important (in my financial life) running and up to date.

Much ado about nothing, IMHO :wink: ...

- Ron
I appreciate and understand your perspective.

At the risk of being redundant, it is not the cost per se, but the philosophical position (admittedly, leavened with my own willful ignorance at not carefully reading and considering their obsolescence policy prior to purchase and use for several years) in that I expect certain behaviors from the software that I purchase, including:

1) It will not fiddle with my system without alerting me as to the intended actions, and letting me decide whether to allow that or not, and
2) Once installed, it will function as-is and not become crippleware at some future point, unless it is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR throughout the purchase, installation, and use process that I am on the clock, like certain anti-virus programs.

I have been burnt by both of these occuring unexpectedly, and regardless of any fine print, or any economic analysis, the degree of intrusiveness and the feeling of betrayal of trust that are engendered cut right to the quick with me. Others may be much more sanguine, and I respect that.

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Post by DRiP Guy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:47 am

soaring wrote: using this forum to rant about a specific company doing nothing wrong seems out of character for the moderators to "continue" allowing.
Respectfully, the "doing nothing wrong" is ABSOLUTELY debatable, and like many topics here, opinions do vary, but the net result of the dialog (I hope!) is a better informed group of individual investors and CONSUMERS, regardless of your personal take on it.

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Post by DRiP Guy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:50 am

Ron wrote:Funny thread :roll: ...


Much ado about nothing, IMHO :wink: ...

- Ron
"When they came for my Word XML*, I said nothing. When they added the dongle, I remained quiet. When they tattooed a GUID and MAC address to our wrists, I allowed it. By the time they came for my pron, it was too late..."


:wink:

:lol:


* Word 2007 XML “cleaning process” already underway, December 23, 2009, by John Lister
http://vista.blorge.com/2009/12/23/word ... -underway/
Last edited by DRiP Guy on Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Blues
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Post by Blues » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:51 am

Intuit has been famous over the years for dropping both service and support for their products. (I have used Quicken since 1993.)

Fortunately, my usage of Quicken is limited to tracking my portfolio and investments for "basis", capital gains, income and monitoring transactions/portfolio value.

As a result, when Intuit sent me a free cd to upgrade my older version to Quicken 98 Deluxe in anticipation of the Y2K bug, it has proven sufficient for my purposes ever since. (I don't use Quicken for bill paying or other online services. The only thing I have to do now is manually enter fund prices when I want to update price history in connection with transactions.)

So in my case, I can say that I've certainly gotten my money's worth. 8)

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Post by sscritic » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:57 am

DRiP Guy wrote:I expect certain behaviors from the software that I purchase, including:

1) It will not fiddle with my system without alerting me as to the intended actions, and letting me decide whether to allow that or not, and
2) Once installed, it will function as-is and not become crippleware at some future point, unless it is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR throughout the purchase, installation, and use process that I am on the clock, like certain anti-virus programs.
At least anti-virus programs continue to work using the same set of definitions. The definitions are not updated, but the software works as it always did. Quicken stops working in that it will no longer import files that you have download yourself from your financial institution. Your anti-virus doesn't stop working after you fail to renew the subscription to new definitions. It runs on your computer with the files you have without change or intervention from the company; Quicken won't. Quicken won't let you import a file on your own computer without phoning home to see if both you and your financial institution are paid up to date.

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Post by paulob » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:58 am

DRiP Guy wrote:[
At the risk of being redundant, it is not the cost per se, but the philosophical position (admittedly, leavened with my own willful ignorance at not carefully reading and considering their obsolescence policy prior to purchase and use for several years) in that I expect certain behaviors from the software that I purchase
I would second that opinion. It is not the cost, but the principle of the matter. There was nothing in the 2009 upgrade that I wanted but was forced to buy it.

It appeared to me as replicating a model for charging support for business applications, down to the consumer level. If one can vote with their pocketbook, I choose other software other than Turbotax.

If you wish to approach this issue only from a cost perspective, then I would argue that the upgrade version should be more heavily discounted (e.g. upgrade from 07 is cheaper than upgrade from 08).
Paul

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Post by paulob » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:58 am

DRiP Guy wrote:[
At the risk of being redundant, it is not the cost per se, but the philosophical position (admittedly, leavened with my own willful ignorance at not carefully reading and considering their obsolescence policy prior to purchase and use for several years) in that I expect certain behaviors from the software that I purchase
I would second that opinion. It is not the cost, but the principle of the matter. There was nothing in the 2009 upgrade that I wanted but was forced to buy it.

It appeared to me as replicating a model for charging support for business applications, down to the consumer level. If one can vote with their pocketbook, I choose other software other than Turbotax.

If you wish to approach this issue only from a cost perspective, then I would argue that the upgrade version should be more heavily discounted (e.g. upgrade from 07 is cheaper than upgrade from 08).
Paul

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soaring
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Post by soaring » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:02 am

DRiP Guy wrote:
soaring wrote: using this forum to rant about a specific company doing nothing wrong seems out of character for the moderators to "continue" allowing.
Respectfully, the "doing nothing wrong" is ABSOLUTELY debatable, and like many topics here, opinions do vary, but the net result of the dialog (I hope!) is a better informed group of individual investors and CONSUMERS, regardless of your personal take on it.
Yes you are certainly correct we all have opinions and I should not attack others but just state mine.
Desiderata

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Post by DRiP Guy » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:11 am

soaring wrote: Yes you are certainly correct we all have opinions and I should not attack others but just state mine.
8)


I love this place. Truly.

And, in kind, if the mods here had decided (or do decide) that this level of in depth dialog about a personal issue with a S/W product is inappropriate and they locked or removed the thread, I would not be offended in the least, so I understand your position, and will try to only start threads that I think are of general interest and within the purview of the forum.)

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Yes, it's extortion

Post by AlexC » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:34 am

They pulled the same stunt last year with their QuickBooks product. They disabled the credit card processing function on our 2 year old version and we were forced to upgrade if we wanted to process credit cards. We're an IT company who uses a lot of different software and they are the only company that practices this form of blackmail. It's a revenue generating scheme and has very little to do with increasing functionality.

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Post by cjking » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:41 am

I still use Quicken 2000, and have always entered my transaction data manually. I find it takes very little time to do. Even when I had the option to download transactions, I found that was more effort than doing it manually. Entering manually also gave me a chance to improve descriptions, if nothing else by converting them to lower case.

At end 2007 Quicken discontinued stock/fund price downloads. I already had a spreadsheet which pulls in all my latest prices from the web, including prices for funds that Quicken didn't support, so I added an extra sheet that summarised the prices in a table. It now takes me about 30 seconds to update prices in Quicken. I cut and past that table into another "spreadsheet" that is actually a ".csv" file, then import the resulting file in to Quicken using the file menu while in portfolio view. The path for the import is kept on the original sheet so I can cut and paste it in response to Quickens prompt for the input file.
Last edited by cjking on Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't eith

Post by richard » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:45 am

jasonp99 wrote:If all you are doing is downloading stock/fund prices you can do that automatically using a Perl script to interface to Yahoo finance and then generate a QIF file you can read into Quicken. I do this using with a script under Mac OS X to get data into my 2002 version of Quicken. Not trivial to setup unless you are familiar with Perl and scripting.
Are you importing a QIF file for investment accounts with just the date, security and price fields filled in? Or are you doing something else?

Please provide some more detail
cjking wrote:It now takes me about 30 seconds to update prices in Quicken. I cut and past that table into another "spreadsheet" that is actually a ".csv" file, then import the resulting file in to Quicken using the file menu while in portfolio view. The path for the import is kept on the original sheet so I can cut and paste it in response to Quickens prompt for the input file.
Similarly, please provide some more detail on how to do this.

thanks

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Re: Why I will never buy Intuit again and you shouldn't eith

Post by Gary » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:55 am

jasonp99 wrote:
sscritic wrote:
Quicken will not let you import a file you have already downloaded if they can't check to see if your institution has paid the tax for your version. You have to be online for them to check. Once you have the file from your institution on your computer, you should be able to import it into Quicken without an internet connection, but Quicken won't allow that. In essence, my version has the ability to import, but needs quicken's permission to actually do so.
I believe this is true for QFX files, but not for QIF files. I download QFX files from WellsFargo (because they don't support QIF) and translate them to QIF using a script. The resulting QIF imports into Quicken just fine.
I thought so to, but before my Quicken 2006 expired earlier this year, I started to write a small program to get stock prices from a webservice that would build a QIF file on my hard disk so that I could import them into Quicken.

Importing was working before the expiration date, but after the product expired, Quicken downloaded an update from Intuit and that feature mysteriously broke.

--Gary

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