[Resolved] Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
[Resolved] Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
[Note: resolved in this post below - moderator prudent]
Thanks in advance for letting me get this out. I have no one to advise me.
I am a Quality Assurance Manager with 4 direct reports in contract Pharma. The lab manager whose area I am responsible for has decided he no longer wants to work with me. QA is supposed to operate independently from lab management. My boss tells me his complaints are ridiculous and hypocritical. I think there are times I could have had better communication, but basically he is young, under stress, and doesn't like being told no. She tried to back me up and just offer steps for improvement. However the owner of the company does not want to support QA or deal with this and has sided with lab management. I can accept a reassignment to another group or resign. He expects me to train my replacement.
The reassignment is basically a demotion. I would report to someone I used to be on an equal basis with, and I would still have to interact with this manager that has forced my reassignment. And I would have to watch someone else do my former job that I put years into.
I am 59.5 years old. I have 2.1 million in investable assets and about 1 million in vacant land plus own my home, work about $400,000. I have no debt, no mortgage. My annual expenses are about $50,000-$60,000. Just over 1 million are in taxable accounts. I wanted to work another 8 to 15 months and then retire. At 60 I qualify for 71% of my deceased husbands social security, and I could still file for my own at 70. I could also file for my own at 62.5 early and then draw my husbands full amount at 65 or 67 (not sure?). I wanted to get close to another year under my own record of higher earnings. I have 35 years, but many are part time lower paid work. I also want my 25 year old daughter to turn 26 since she is currently on my health insurance. But I could just give her money to go on her employers for 8 months.
Reassigning at my age means retiring because I likely won't get another position. But I could try.
Do I hand in my resignation and figure out the next part of my life? Or eat a lot of humble pie and tough out another 8 months?
Thanks in advance for letting me get this out. I have no one to advise me.
I am a Quality Assurance Manager with 4 direct reports in contract Pharma. The lab manager whose area I am responsible for has decided he no longer wants to work with me. QA is supposed to operate independently from lab management. My boss tells me his complaints are ridiculous and hypocritical. I think there are times I could have had better communication, but basically he is young, under stress, and doesn't like being told no. She tried to back me up and just offer steps for improvement. However the owner of the company does not want to support QA or deal with this and has sided with lab management. I can accept a reassignment to another group or resign. He expects me to train my replacement.
The reassignment is basically a demotion. I would report to someone I used to be on an equal basis with, and I would still have to interact with this manager that has forced my reassignment. And I would have to watch someone else do my former job that I put years into.
I am 59.5 years old. I have 2.1 million in investable assets and about 1 million in vacant land plus own my home, work about $400,000. I have no debt, no mortgage. My annual expenses are about $50,000-$60,000. Just over 1 million are in taxable accounts. I wanted to work another 8 to 15 months and then retire. At 60 I qualify for 71% of my deceased husbands social security, and I could still file for my own at 70. I could also file for my own at 62.5 early and then draw my husbands full amount at 65 or 67 (not sure?). I wanted to get close to another year under my own record of higher earnings. I have 35 years, but many are part time lower paid work. I also want my 25 year old daughter to turn 26 since she is currently on my health insurance. But I could just give her money to go on her employers for 8 months.
Reassigning at my age means retiring because I likely won't get another position. But I could try.
Do I hand in my resignation and figure out the next part of my life? Or eat a lot of humble pie and tough out another 8 months?
- climber2020
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Is the pay the same?
If it were me and I had a net worth of 3.5 million with 60k expenses and only 8 months to go, I'd take the reassignment, do very little actual work, and dare them to fire me. Over many years of observing human nature I've realized that it takes a certain personality type to be able to do what I described, so this may not work for you. It goes without saying, but you should make absolutely sure you're ready to retire if you take this approach.
If it were me and I had a net worth of 3.5 million with 60k expenses and only 8 months to go, I'd take the reassignment, do very little actual work, and dare them to fire me. Over many years of observing human nature I've realized that it takes a certain personality type to be able to do what I described, so this may not work for you. It goes without saying, but you should make absolutely sure you're ready to retire if you take this approach.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
This is great advice. I wouldn't quit.climber2020 wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:56 pm Is the pay the same?
If it were me and I had a net worth of 3.5 million with 60k expenses and only 8 months to go, I'd take the reassignment, do very little actual work, and dare them to fire me. Over many years of observing human nature I've realized that it takes a certain personality type to be able to do what I described, so this may not work for you. It goes without saying, but you should make absolutely sure you're ready to retire if you take this approach.
Now you have enough money to say take this job and shive it but I'm petty enough and would want to be around to see the lab manager fail.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I’d take the reassignment, continue doing your best work & retire on your terms. If you get fired you will be entitled to unemployment.
Working for someone who used to be your equal, or being caught in politics hurts your pride but this is about you & your agenda. Your pride in your own work & life is what matters.
Working for someone who used to be your equal, or being caught in politics hurts your pride but this is about you & your agenda. Your pride in your own work & life is what matters.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
It's best for you to suck it up. Don't make it easy on them by quitting.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Is there only one choice in reassignment? With some push back, there might be other options which are less stressful. Maybe they would pay you a few months severance to just go away. I would suggest taking the best reassignment you can get and then immediately start looking for another job and/or take some time to decide when you will be ready to retire on your own. How much leave time do you have that you can use to help run out the clock? Work four days a week or something for a few months or whatever.
You are financially independent. You don't need this job but it might be convenient for your own purposes to keep it for a while longer.
Empower yourself by making your own choices.
There is no need for humble pie.
You are financially independent. You don't need this job but it might be convenient for your own purposes to keep it for a while longer.
Empower yourself by making your own choices.
There is no need for humble pie.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I like this plan. You may get lucky enough to get a severance offer before they fire you making even sweeter.climber2020 wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:56 pm Is the pay the same?
If it were me and I had a net worth of 3.5 million with 60k expenses and only 8 months to go, I'd take the reassignment, do very little actual work, and dare them to fire me. Over many years of observing human nature I've realized that it takes a certain personality type to be able to do what I described, so this may not work for you. It goes without saying, but you should make absolutely sure you're ready to retire if you take this approach.
- BrooklynInvest
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Sorry OP.
Me, I'd take the reassignment, give it a small amount of time and then plot your next move (be it retirement or whatever) from a less stressful place. Nothing, including quitting, is off the table but you've only got 8 to 15 months left and you're in great financial shape. I ended my corporate career on a down note. It stuck in my craw but in the end it matters not one iota!
Good luck OP,
Me, I'd take the reassignment, give it a small amount of time and then plot your next move (be it retirement or whatever) from a less stressful place. Nothing, including quitting, is off the table but you've only got 8 to 15 months left and you're in great financial shape. I ended my corporate career on a down note. It stuck in my craw but in the end it matters not one iota!
Good luck OP,
- sunnywindy
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Just work until you can collect the age milestone money, and then you never have to see them again!
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
First, you might consult with a reputable employment lawyer to get the lay of the land.
Second, if you don't accept reassignment, how long would it take for them to fire you and what would be the grounds for such firing? At your age, it is not so easy to fire someone. If they replace you with a younger person, you might have an age discrimination case.
Third, if you accept reassignment, would it be at the same pay level? If yes, and you only plan to work another 8 months or so, perhaps eating some distasteful crow for that period may be a good option.
Fourth, if the owner doesn't want to deal with this situation, perhaps he won't want to deal with hearing from your employment lawyer. The thought of potential litigation may be really distasteful.
Fifth, talk to the ultimate decision maker (the owner?) and see if there is some way to work things out. If you only want to stay another 8 months or so, perhaps he will be willing to keep you on knowing you will retire at that point. Then you can all depart on favorable terms. Win-win. Also, indicate you are willing to do whatever it takes to resolve the situation between you and the lab guy.
Good luck! HR issues are always difficult.
Second, if you don't accept reassignment, how long would it take for them to fire you and what would be the grounds for such firing? At your age, it is not so easy to fire someone. If they replace you with a younger person, you might have an age discrimination case.
Third, if you accept reassignment, would it be at the same pay level? If yes, and you only plan to work another 8 months or so, perhaps eating some distasteful crow for that period may be a good option.
Fourth, if the owner doesn't want to deal with this situation, perhaps he won't want to deal with hearing from your employment lawyer. The thought of potential litigation may be really distasteful.
Fifth, talk to the ultimate decision maker (the owner?) and see if there is some way to work things out. If you only want to stay another 8 months or so, perhaps he will be willing to keep you on knowing you will retire at that point. Then you can all depart on favorable terms. Win-win. Also, indicate you are willing to do whatever it takes to resolve the situation between you and the lab guy.
Good luck! HR issues are always difficult.
The difficulty with jazz is there are too many notes. (Borrowed from Emperor's critique in Amadeus)
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
8 months is such a short time period.
I would continue to collect a paycheck while doing the minimal work to get the job done if I was in your shoes. Suck it up and take the reassignment. You said you consider it a demotion but if they aren't cutting your salary who cares - less responsibility for the same money is a good thing if you want to coast it out until the end.
I would continue to collect a paycheck while doing the minimal work to get the job done if I was in your shoes. Suck it up and take the reassignment. You said you consider it a demotion but if they aren't cutting your salary who cares - less responsibility for the same money is a good thing if you want to coast it out until the end.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I would not resign and would try the following first as I feel it is beneficial for both parties.
How long does it take to train the person that will be taking over your job? Have you tried negotiating with the owner in that you will spend the next 8 months training the person and after that they can terminate you or you will resign on your own accord? If the training time frame is shorter, see if they are willing to provide a severance till the end of the year.
How long does it take to train the person that will be taking over your job? Have you tried negotiating with the owner in that you will spend the next 8 months training the person and after that they can terminate you or you will resign on your own accord? If the training time frame is shorter, see if they are willing to provide a severance till the end of the year.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Agree with all the above; however, you should take into account your physical and mental well-being and how each will be affected if you proceed as others have advised. You're in a good financial position to retire, if that is in your own best interest.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
What happens if you do not accept the reassignment and do not resign (never resign in a case like this)?
In the meantime, gather any and all documentation about this. Any email, communication, etc. Employee handbook. Job description, compensation information, all of your past performance reviews.
Any and all communication must be done in writing. If they tell you something, send an email to recap what was said. Keep copies of everything.
In the meantime, gather any and all documentation about this. Any email, communication, etc. Employee handbook. Job description, compensation information, all of your past performance reviews.
Any and all communication must be done in writing. If they tell you something, send an email to recap what was said. Keep copies of everything.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
While you have (hopefully) some leverage, negotiate a severance package that includes six months' salary and leave.
If that's not possible, take the lateral transfer, phone it in for a few months while you plan your retirement and then retire.
If that's not possible, take the lateral transfer, phone it in for a few months while you plan your retirement and then retire.
Moderation in all things, including moderation.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
No need to fall on your sword here. Just suck it up and put on a happy face until you can get things figured out. Don't let them see you sweat. Bring everybody doughnuts and coffee. Make the conversation about you positive.
Then strike when they least expect it.
Then strike when they least expect it.
"Plans are useless; planning is indispensable.” (Dwight Eisenhower) |
"Man plans, God laughs" (Yiddish proverb)
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Not judging the other responses but coming to BH you’ll usually get answers skewed toward financial optimization. I’d like to put another perspective to you. This situation aside, were you planning to retire in a year or would you have worked until 62, 65, 67, etc? What was your plan for your retirement? I work in the industry you’re in. There is no reason that you can’t find another position with another company. Especially if you are competent and capable in the job and planning to work 3+ years. Now if you were going to retire anyway in about a year then I would go with what gives you the most peace. Financially you’ll probably be fine retiring today. But if you’d like the financial peace of working the extra 8 months that’s fine too. But not if you’re going to resent your boss/coworkers/yourself every day for the next 8 months.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassig
If you were younger and farther from retirement, my advice would be different. But you’re about a year out from retirement. Career building is unimportant at this point. Assuming the pay is the same, I would take the reassignment, keep your head down, do the job the way it’s supposed to be done, and retire when you’re ready.
That said, is this a situation where you might want or need to be a whistleblower? If that’s the case, stop communicating here, and talk to an employment law attorney before you do anything else.
That said, is this a situation where you might want or need to be a whistleblower? If that’s the case, stop communicating here, and talk to an employment law attorney before you do anything else.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
You have received some great advice here. I would agree that you should not make it easy on them by quitting. You should prioritize evaluating if there is a case of serious employment discrimination here. Based on facts and circumstances, a good lawyer will help evaluate if you have a case enough to get leverage to negotiate with them. Remember Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin. Also remember Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA) of 1967 protects people who are 40 years of age or older from discrimination in employment.
Facts that may matter depending on circumstances:
who are you being replaced by? what is their experience and qualifications for the role?
is there a pattern of role eliminations or restructuring that owner/leadership has been displaying?
who are the other direct reports of your manager and why have they chosen you to be reassigned?
who is the lab manager and their circumstances?
Is there a case for Retaliation here?
A good employment lawyer can help frame things more broadly without threatening but also firmly negotiating on your behalf. They can cost $500-$1000 an hour depending on location, firm size, experience, etc.
Good luck, you may be able to negotiate your way out of there getting what you would have received if you had stayed in your current role for 8-15 months as you had hoped.
Facts that may matter depending on circumstances:
who are you being replaced by? what is their experience and qualifications for the role?
is there a pattern of role eliminations or restructuring that owner/leadership has been displaying?
who are the other direct reports of your manager and why have they chosen you to be reassigned?
who is the lab manager and their circumstances?
Is there a case for Retaliation here?
A good employment lawyer can help frame things more broadly without threatening but also firmly negotiating on your behalf. They can cost $500-$1000 an hour depending on location, firm size, experience, etc.
Good luck, you may be able to negotiate your way out of there getting what you would have received if you had stayed in your current role for 8-15 months as you had hoped.
Last edited by life_force_prana on Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
If you are reassigned to a new position and also have to train your replacement would you do both jobs simultaneously?
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Take the reassignment. Take all vacation days you have. If you have separate sick days, take sick days. When you're training your replacement, phrase things like "I do this like so but of course the people in the lab don't like that, so just let them do whatever they want but sign off on nothing". Since that's what your superiors seem to have wanted you to do, that seems like proper training to me. You only need to stay until your daughter turns 26, although she could certainly pay her own medical. My 28 and 24 year old pay their own from their own jobs.
You also could start documenting everything that's happened. Remember that HR is NOT on your side EVER. You'd accumulate any emails and put em on a USB stick you own so an attorney in the future could bring suit.
You also could start documenting everything that's happened. Remember that HR is NOT on your side EVER. You'd accumulate any emails and put em on a USB stick you own so an attorney in the future could bring suit.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Assuming the pay is the same, I’d take the new position and start emotionally disengaging from work. Still do a good job, as future patients depend on quality pharm work, but the above suggests you are too caught up in your work as your identity. You’ll have to disengage when you retire anyway.beachmom wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:34 pm
The reassignment is basically a demotion. I would report to someone I used to be on an equal basis with, and I would still have to interact with this manager that has forced my reassignment. And I would have to watch someone else do my former job that I put years into.
I suspect in 5-10 years (maybe shorter) no one will remember or care that you put years into your former job.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Sorry you are facing this so close to retirement - I am sure it is not what you were planning. Given your financial situation and current plans I would first try and negotiate a severance package, maybe you can't get all 8-15 months covered but until you ask you never know. If a severance is not possible and the reassignment is not what you want to do then don't accept it - make them come up with an alternative. Do not resign - suggest a severance package and then put the issue back in their court to come up with an acceptable solution.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Yes, essentially. Because I would still be there, I would get asked if questions came up and have to answer them. And questions would arise, because no one knows close to what I know about this area. Unfortunately the area touches on all other labs.beernutz wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:54 pm If you are reassigned to a new position and also have to train your replacement would you do both jobs simultaneously?
So my ability to avoid the lab manager with the issue would be limited.
I appreciate your thoughts. I am not sure I could manage to work under this situation. There are about 250 employees so it would be a pretty open and widely discussed unexpected transfer.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I like this idea. 8 months of training and then 8 months of severance. Or 6 months training and 10 months severance. Whatever. Tell them you are willing to do it because you deeply care for the company and are dedicated to its success /sboogiehead wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:17 pm I would not resign and would try the following first as I feel it is beneficial for both parties.
How long does it take to train the person that will be taking over your job? Have you tried negotiating with the owner in that you will spend the next 8 months training the person and after that they can terminate you or you will resign on your own accord? If the training time frame is shorter, see if they are willing to provide a severance till the end of the year.
Last edited by Kenkat on Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I would take the reassignment. You can put your resume out on the street, maybe you'll find something to your liking. I personally took a reassignment to a different type of job for six years that was mostly frustrating to me but there weren't a lot of other options available.
These types of things happen to many people to varying degrees, including executives. I would not take it personally. It sounds like you are most of the way to being able to stop work so just hang in there. My suggestion would be to add value in the new job rather than be maliciously compliant. It may not be a positive experience but if you dwell on the negative it will impact your health and relationships more than you might think.
These types of things happen to many people to varying degrees, including executives. I would not take it personally. It sounds like you are most of the way to being able to stop work so just hang in there. My suggestion would be to add value in the new job rather than be maliciously compliant. It may not be a positive experience but if you dwell on the negative it will impact your health and relationships more than you might think.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
You have enough funds. What is another 8 months going to get you, besides aggravation?
Make sure that you have health care set up, and that you have cleaned out your office and separated out company and personal items.
You are in pharma. The president of the company is taking
sides against QA. Poor QA can mean patient deaths and lawsuits.
I'd just get out . Don't train your replacement, just resign and enjoy life.
I gave the company 5 months notice due to being at the
director level, and it was full of frustration. Life is much more stress free now.
I was a workaholic, with my identity tied up in my position at work. It took 18 months to get past that.
Make sure that you have health care set up, and that you have cleaned out your office and separated out company and personal items.
You are in pharma. The president of the company is taking
sides against QA. Poor QA can mean patient deaths and lawsuits.
I'd just get out . Don't train your replacement, just resign and enjoy life.
I gave the company 5 months notice due to being at the
director level, and it was full of frustration. Life is much more stress free now.
I was a workaholic, with my identity tied up in my position at work. It took 18 months to get past that.
Last edited by MathWizard on Mon Feb 03, 2025 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I agree. A company that is hostile to their Quality Assurance department (and there's no mistake about it if this is the owner's position) is a company not worth working for in any way.MathWizard wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:13 pm You have enough funds. What is another 8 months going to get you, besides aggravation?
Make sure that you have health care set up, and that you have cleaned out your office and separated out company and personal items.
You are in pharma. The president of the company is taking
sides against QA. Poor QA can mean patient deaths and lawsuits.
I'd just get out . Don't train your replacement, just resign and enjoy life.
I have the company 5 months notice due to being at the
director level, and it was full of frustration. Life is much more stress free now.
I was a workaholic, with my identity tied up in my position at work. It took 18 months to get past that.
Last edited by rbd789 on Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
That's odd that he would expect you to train your replacement if resigning.beachmom wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:34 pm I can accept a reassignment to another group or resign. He expects me to train my replacement.
So he must expect you to accept the reassignment.
It's so unusual for people to be in such good financial shape as you are, that he probably thinks you need the job.
If the owner really does expect you to train your replacement, and does not expect you to resign, then you have leverage.
Use that leverage to get a severance package in exchange for training your replacement.
"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next." ~Ursula LeGuin
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
With $2.1M in assets, a safe withdrawal rate of 3% gets you $63,000/year. Social security will be a topper on that.
You can retire today. If you continue to work, you are largely increasing your kids inheritance or whatever your estate plan is. Make them give you some golden handcuffs to stick on to train your replacement or just leave.
You can retire today. If you continue to work, you are largely increasing your kids inheritance or whatever your estate plan is. Make them give you some golden handcuffs to stick on to train your replacement or just leave.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
You were given two choices, resign or reassignment/train your replacement. This is not a complete list as noted in other responses.
The third option is to refuse the reassignment and let them decide whether to lay you off. This option may come with severance (to induce you to sign a release) and you should be eligible for unemployment compensation (you can have them agree not to contest your claim as part of your severance agreement).
The fourth option is to negotiate an agreement where you receive a bonus for training your replacement and are laid off after training is complete. Negotiate for a bonus equal to 100% of salary payable each pay period.
Sorry for the tough situation you find yourself in. Financially you are fine imo even if you decide to retire after this plays out. The stress will be temporary. I do think in your case it makes sense to run any proposals or agreements by a labor attorney before signing. Most of all, stay focused on getting the best outcome for you, keep your head high, stay calm/rational and don’t run afoul of any policies like using your computer for personal business that gives the company an excuse to fire you. Best wishes and let us know how this turns out for you.
The third option is to refuse the reassignment and let them decide whether to lay you off. This option may come with severance (to induce you to sign a release) and you should be eligible for unemployment compensation (you can have them agree not to contest your claim as part of your severance agreement).
The fourth option is to negotiate an agreement where you receive a bonus for training your replacement and are laid off after training is complete. Negotiate for a bonus equal to 100% of salary payable each pay period.
Sorry for the tough situation you find yourself in. Financially you are fine imo even if you decide to retire after this plays out. The stress will be temporary. I do think in your case it makes sense to run any proposals or agreements by a labor attorney before signing. Most of all, stay focused on getting the best outcome for you, keep your head high, stay calm/rational and don’t run afoul of any policies like using your computer for personal business that gives the company an excuse to fire you. Best wishes and let us know how this turns out for you.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
No one touched on the social security aspect. One year of higher earnings will only raise the social security average compensation over 35 years a very small amount - so don't let that factor into what you decide to do.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
If I were in the OP's position, I'd certainly take this route.Cyclesafe wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:29 pm No need to fall on your sword here. Just suck it up and put on a happy face until you can get things figured out. Don't let them see you sweat. Bring everybody doughnuts and coffee. Make the conversation about you positive.
Then strike when they least expect it.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Once I realized I could retire I found it much easier to do my job and ignore jerks. Much less stress when I decided that "I'll fire you and you'll never work again" was no longer a threat.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
You have enough saved and invested…
So your job is a hobby walk into office heads tall and do what you wa t to do… no need to resign… anyways the salary is not going to make or break your bank …
So your job is a hobby walk into office heads tall and do what you wa t to do… no need to resign… anyways the salary is not going to make or break your bank …
Invest when you have the money, sell when you need the money, for real life expenses...
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
If it means deaths, shouldn't they train their replacement to try to minimize those? I wasn't really in favor of doing that until you pointed this out.MathWizard wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:13 pm You have enough funds. What is another 8 months going to get you, besides aggravation?
Make sure that you have health care set up, and that you have cleaned out your office and separated out company and personal items.
You are in pharma. The president of the company is taking
sides against QA. Poor QA can mean patient deaths and lawsuits.
I'd just get out . Don't train your replacement, just resign and enjoy life.
I have the company 5 months notice due to being at the
director level, and it was full of frustration. Life is much more stress free now.
I was a workaholic, with my identity tied up in my position at work. It took 18 months to get past that.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
- Consider looking for a new job in your field ASAP. Often switching jobs can lead to a pay increase. It is easier to get hired while you are still employed. You might also find the new place has much better people and you may enjoy your new job much more.
- Don't get fired. Layoff or resign is better. If you ever need to look for a new job, employers like to screen out people who have once been fired.
- Maybe consult a lawyer on how to start building a case to protect yourself from a firing. Also, you might be able to use this to go on the offensive and use it as a bargaining chip in the future. Wrongful termination lawsuits, such as age discrimination, etc., often scare companies and they may tip-toe around you if give hints that you have lawyered up and are ready to push back. Just the cost and time of a lawsuit, even one they might prevail in is enough to motivate companies to avoid this.
- If you are thinking about resigning, before doing that, negotiate up a good severance package. If they really want you out, it is much better for them if you walk away willingly than cause trouble for them at the company while you remain.
- Check your state laws about vacation time payouts. Some states require employers to pay out unused vacation. So no point taking days off you don't want. You can also negotiate this in a severance package in states that don't.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
One reason you give for wanting to stay on is to increase your SS payout by adding a higher earning year to drop off a lower earning year. A previous poster mentioned that adding one year, even higher earning, probably wont make much difference in your SS payout. I would suggest going to SSA.gov and calculate your PIA based on your current earnings history. Then calculate it as if you worked one more year (or 8 months, or whatever). I agree with the earlier poster that you will probably find that working a bit longer won’t increase your SS payout by much, but the only way to know for sure is to do some calculations.
If it were me, and if I felt like I had enough to retire (including SS), and if I really did not want to take the reassignment, I would consider:
1. Tell owner that you don’t want to take the reassignment and see what his reaction is. If he backs down, great. Keep doing your job for as long as you are comfortable doing it. If he doesn’t back down, turn in your notice.
2. Tell owner you will take the reassignment and train your replacement. As soon as you are demoted turn in your notice. Don’t look back. This might be considered spiteful, but it sounds like the owner is being spiteful.
3. If you feel more comfortable earning a salary for a while, stay on, even with the demotion. Be honest with yourself about whether or not you really need to work. This new so it might take a while to convince yourself that you will be ok not working.
Either way, only you can decide if you really need the money from continued work. At this point, working for 8-15 months won’t move the needle a lot on your retirement savings. Clearly, living off of your salary means not withdrawing from savings, so that’s an argument, of sorts, for working. The balance of your retirement accounts is not going to increase that much based on your contributions.
If you don’t really need to work, and you don’t want to work (given unfavorable circumstances), strongly consider leaving either soon or after working as much longer as you can stomach it.
Finally, I don’t know anything about your vacant land and what your intentions are with it. It comes up pretty often on Bogleheads that a person’s assets include land. Sometimes big, sometimes small. Sometimes inherited, sometimes bought with a purpose in mind. It sounds like you have land that you (or someone) paid $1 million for and now it is worth $400,000? Is it an expensive building lot? Larger acreage (farm, raw land, ???)? Do you have specific plans for the land? Is it providing income (like rented farmland) or timber? Is it investment property? Why is the value down so far? Do you expect it to recover? I’m not suggesting doing something drastic with the land now, but maybe start an internal deliberation on how you hope the land will benefit you and if there is anything you can/should do to get the most out of the land. Land has a way of hanging around if you aren’t very intentional about what you want from owing it.
If it were me, and if I felt like I had enough to retire (including SS), and if I really did not want to take the reassignment, I would consider:
1. Tell owner that you don’t want to take the reassignment and see what his reaction is. If he backs down, great. Keep doing your job for as long as you are comfortable doing it. If he doesn’t back down, turn in your notice.
2. Tell owner you will take the reassignment and train your replacement. As soon as you are demoted turn in your notice. Don’t look back. This might be considered spiteful, but it sounds like the owner is being spiteful.
3. If you feel more comfortable earning a salary for a while, stay on, even with the demotion. Be honest with yourself about whether or not you really need to work. This new so it might take a while to convince yourself that you will be ok not working.
Either way, only you can decide if you really need the money from continued work. At this point, working for 8-15 months won’t move the needle a lot on your retirement savings. Clearly, living off of your salary means not withdrawing from savings, so that’s an argument, of sorts, for working. The balance of your retirement accounts is not going to increase that much based on your contributions.
If you don’t really need to work, and you don’t want to work (given unfavorable circumstances), strongly consider leaving either soon or after working as much longer as you can stomach it.
Finally, I don’t know anything about your vacant land and what your intentions are with it. It comes up pretty often on Bogleheads that a person’s assets include land. Sometimes big, sometimes small. Sometimes inherited, sometimes bought with a purpose in mind. It sounds like you have land that you (or someone) paid $1 million for and now it is worth $400,000? Is it an expensive building lot? Larger acreage (farm, raw land, ???)? Do you have specific plans for the land? Is it providing income (like rented farmland) or timber? Is it investment property? Why is the value down so far? Do you expect it to recover? I’m not suggesting doing something drastic with the land now, but maybe start an internal deliberation on how you hope the land will benefit you and if there is anything you can/should do to get the most out of the land. Land has a way of hanging around if you aren’t very intentional about what you want from owing it.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Speak to an attorney about potential age discrimination. Might cost you $750 or so for a consult, but seems like something worth exploring.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I wouldn't bother with a lawyer, 49 states are at will employment and they don't need a good reason to get rid of you. A lawyer will just use up your funds.
Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they shall never sit in
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
My father in law took a huge demotion when he was around 60. He couldn’t afford to retire at that point, and it would have been impossible for him to get another job in his field (foundry sales). He sucked it up and worked the job until he retired. I can guarantee you that he hated it, but he would have dug ditches if necessary. You, on the other hand, don’t “need” to work. But only you can decide if you’re okay with the situation.
If you want to continue working but would be okay if you were told no, try calling their bluff and just saying no to the proposal. It sounds like they need you to train your replacement, so if they say you don’t have a choice, remember that you do. You can leave. So in that case, tell them that you will train your replacement, at your current salary and not working in another job simultaneously. If you are willing to take the demotion, tell them you will take the demotion once training is complete - after which time, you will no longer be in that position and will no longer be able to respond to questions relating to that position. If you don’t want to take the demotion, let them know that they can lay you off after training is done.
Remember that you can leave at any point if things are too stressful for you. You can afford to retire, so don’t be afraid to stand up for yourself.
If you want to continue working but would be okay if you were told no, try calling their bluff and just saying no to the proposal. It sounds like they need you to train your replacement, so if they say you don’t have a choice, remember that you do. You can leave. So in that case, tell them that you will train your replacement, at your current salary and not working in another job simultaneously. If you are willing to take the demotion, tell them you will take the demotion once training is complete - after which time, you will no longer be in that position and will no longer be able to respond to questions relating to that position. If you don’t want to take the demotion, let them know that they can lay you off after training is done.
Remember that you can leave at any point if things are too stressful for you. You can afford to retire, so don’t be afraid to stand up for yourself.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
The president of the company has the control, and sets the direction. It's better for OP to walk away before things go awry.Running Bum wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 3:23 pmIf it means deaths, shouldn't they train their replacement to try to minimize those? I wasn't really in favor of doing that until you pointed this out.MathWizard wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:13 pm You have enough funds. What is another 8 months going to get you, besides aggravation?
Make sure that you have health care set up, and that you have cleaned out your office and separated out company and personal items.
You are in pharma. The president of the company is taking
sides against QA. Poor QA can mean patient deaths and lawsuits.
I'd just get out . Don't train your replacement, just resign and enjoy life.
I have the company 5 months notice due to being at the
director level, and it was full of frustration. Life is much more stress free now.
I was a workaholic, with my identity tied up in my position at work. It took 18 months to get past that.
Last edited by MathWizard on Mon Feb 03, 2025 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I don’t think this has been mentioned, but the lab manager doesn’t like to work with you, but you’re saying you still have to interact with them even given the reassigned position? If I was in your situation, I would definitely resign with like two weeks notice. If they panic because you know all the stuff there is to know, make them pay. They can’t have it both ways. Picking the other person over you essentially and then expecting you to do what they want. The heck with that.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
beachmom wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:34 pm Thanks in advance for letting me get this out. I have no one to advise me.
I am a Quality Assurance Manager with 4 direct reports in contract Pharma. The lab manager whose area I am responsible for has decided he no longer wants to work with me. QA is supposed to operate independently from lab management. My boss tells me his complaints are ridiculous and hypocritical. I think there are times I could have had better communication, but basically he is young, under stress, and doesn't like being told no. She tried to back me up and just offer steps for improvement. However the owner of the company does not want to support QA or deal with this and has sided with lab management. I can accept a reassignment to another group or resign. He expects me to train my replacement.
The reassignment is basically a demotion. I would report to someone I used to be on an equal basis with, and I would still have to interact with this manager that has forced my reassignment. And I would have to watch someone else do my former job that I put years into.
I am 59.5 years old. I have 2.1 million in investable assets and about 1 million in vacant land plus own my home, work about $400,000. I have no debt, no mortgage. My annual expenses are about $50,000-$60,000. Just over 1 million are in taxable accounts. I wanted to work another 8 to 15 months and then retire. At 60 I qualify for 71% of my deceased husbands social security, and I could still file for my own at 70. I could also file for my own at 62.5 early and then draw my husbands full amount at 65 or 67 (not sure?). I wanted to get close to another year under my own record of higher earnings. I have 35 years, but many are part time lower paid work. I also want my 25 year old daughter to turn 26 since she is currently on my health insurance. But I could just give her money to go on her employers for 8 months.
Reassigning at my age means retiring because I likely won't get another position. But I could try.
Do I hand in my resignation and figure out the next part of my life? Or eat a lot of humble pie and tough out another 8 months?
Sorry you are needing to deal with this.
You need to compare the financial and emotional/stress factors of the different choices.
As you read my firat few paragraphs, please note that I then write:
That leads to: Do you want to continue working there at all, or especially, IF you need to interact with the difficult former(?) boss?
I'm not quite clear about why the need to work 8-15 more months, given this is one of the backup (?) options. It doesn't sound like you are trying to fill out a minimum term to get certain retirement benefits (e.g., requiring X years of employment). Are you needing extra months/years of employment there to qualify for some pension or such?
Do the Social Security amounts depend upon your working more? If it's your husband's SS benefits, then that should be a "no". If it's your own, then you should check to see how much the extra work would really affect your SS benefits. It might be less, perhaps much less, than you think... but this can be determined. Especially if you are already at (or very close to) that second bend point, it might not make much difference.
In other words, IS there a significant financial difference about whether you work longer or not?
As for a couple of other issues:
One is concern about if you need to "report to someone I used to be on an equal basis with". This needn't be such a concern (I'm purposefully omitting any personality/etc., difficulties right now). This type of situation can occur for a variety of reasons: The "equal" worker gets promoted and is suddenly "a boss" (manager, supervisor, etc.). Or a lateral move like your situation. That's part of what can be a zig-zag path of promotions...
Likewise, your concern about "watch[ing] someone else do my former job that I put years into". These things *happen* in corporations. Even if you chose to take a different position, one you wanted, this would occur, correct?
So perhaps try not to confuse relatively ordinary "corporate work and changes" with the actual unpleasantries of your specific situation.
Having a 25 yo daughter need to be on her own company's health insurance isn't a dreadful option. That's very different that if she were less established and didn't have such a plan to use. Paying her for the extra costs for several months is nice, but not a life-changing situation for her if you don't.
Try not to complicate what IS unpleasant or unwarranted with what is just some of "corporate life".
That leads to: Do you want to continue working there at all, or especially, IF you need to interact with the difficult former(?) boss?
Finally, DO spend a small amount of $$ and contact an employment attorney for at least one consult. Then, ask for their guidance BEFORE YOU SIGN *ANYTHING*.
At this point in your life, you don't need this stress.
Try not to let anger or disappointment affect your decision, especially if the money isn't significant. And *try* to get them to give you severance of a similar amount; that makes it easier for them, too. But let your attorney guide this; they'd know how to do it. You probably don't.
Good luck, and hopefully, *enjoy* your retirement... your comfortable retirement!
I also tend to agree with what MathWizard has written.
RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I looked back at your old posts and can see that you’ve been on quite a journey over the past few years. For the purposes of your initial query, you might consider adding a bit more detail about your land. Stating that you have $1 million vacant land worth $400,000 seems to undersell what you have going on, I think. The land situation, from some old posts, actually sounds much better than how I read it in your current post.
Don’t feel obligated to share more than you are comfortable sharing on my account.
Don’t feel obligated to share more than you are comfortable sharing on my account.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Enjoy your next 8 months or so. Knowing you have the power to walk away should make you feel good. Take the "demotion", enjoy less stress and focus on what you need to do for yourself to set up your retirement.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I wouldn't do that, personally.climber2020 wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 12:56 pm Is the pay the same?
If it were me and I had a net worth of 3.5 million with 60k expenses and only 8 months to go, I'd take the reassignment, do very little actual work, and dare them to fire me. Over many years of observing human nature I've realized that it takes a certain personality type to be able to do what I described, so this may not work for you. It goes without saying, but you should make absolutely sure you're ready to retire if you take this approach.
I'm not the personality type to waste 8 months of my life doing something like that when, financially, I don't need to.
It's not going to really move the needle much financially, anyway.
Embrace freedom, don't put up with 8 months of lame work for money you don't even need.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 78% / 17% / 5% || LMP: TIPS ladder
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
I would do my best work & continue there. No need to resign.
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Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
Right, the OP thinks they have a lot of leverage here because of their experience and knowledge. It doesn’t sound like that has been taken advantage of yet, so it’s a good moment to negotiate. I wouldn’t resign without at least having a bit of a staring contest first.KESP wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 4:53 pm I don’t think this has been mentioned, but the lab manager doesn’t like to work with you, but you’re saying you still have to interact with them even given the reassigned position? If I was in your situation, I would definitely resign with like two weeks notice. If they panic because you know all the stuff there is to know, make them pay. They can’t have it both ways. Picking the other person over you essentially and then expecting you to do what they want. The heck with that.
Re: Urgent-Help with Serious Work Issue- Resign or accept reassignment
These types of cases are taken on contingency. He has a lot of money, it may be worth spending a few $100 getting an opinion. Sometimes you can get a go away settlement.rogue_economist wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 4:15 pm I wouldn't bother with a lawyer, 49 states are at will employment and they don't need a good reason to get rid of you. A lawyer will just use up your funds.