You are a maven in my book if you understood the reference to Original Issue Discount, and knew that the inflation adjustment to TIPS shows up on each year’s 1099 as OID, adding to ordinary income, and incrementing the tax due accordingly—even though those inflation adjustments won’t be received in hand until the bond matures. Aka, phantom income.
My question is whether I correctly understand how the nth year OID is calculated. Here is how I did it initially (and please be blunt if I did it wrong).
1. Assume a 20-year TIPS ladder under idealized and simplified conditions:
a. All bonds bought at par and all bonds have a 2% coupon.
b. One coupon payment at the end of the year & all bonds mature exactly at the end of the year, so that the full year’s inflation adjustment applies to each
c. Inflation 3% throughout.
d. One million dollars put into the ladder
e. Tax bracket is 24%
2. If this TIPS ladder was in a Roth account, each year’s withdrawal would be $61,157 real. There would be no OID, no tax on the coupon, and it wouldn’t matter that some of each year’s withdrawal represents basis. The nominal withdrawal amount will inflate up each year by 3% compounded, but all of it will always be tax free.
3. Now switch to an ordinary taxable brokerage account
a. The coupon will be $20,000 real, so that $41,157 of basis must be withdrawn that first year to get the $61,157 payout
b. The nominal payout (which is what the IRS taxes) will be:
i. $20,600 inflated coupon, plus
ii. $42,391 of inflated principal.
c. OID that first year will be $30,000, since the entire $1 million was subject to the full year’s inflation. Of that, $1,235 will have been paid out as the inflation adjustment to the maturing principal.
d. Taxable income is the inflated coupon plus all the OID, $50,600.
So far, so good (I hope). It’s the next phase where I grow uncertain. The spreadsheet picture below may help. Here in text I’ll just discuss the second year.
Year two
4. As shown, as the ladder liquidates over time, the real coupon goes down and down and the share of the total payment from maturing principal (real basis) goes up and up.
5. Coupons are taxed, OID is taxed, but return of basis is not taxed. The hit from phantom income grows less over time, and real after-tax income increases.
6. Now to the OID question. On my first take I calculated the 2nd year OID as $29,628. I reasoned as follows:
a. At the end of Year One, the inflated value of the million dollar purchase was $1,030,000, giving the Year One OID of $30,000
b. At the beginning of Year Two, there is $1,030,000 nominal, minus the nominal $42,391 distributed at the end of Year One, or $987,609 nominal in the account (yellow column)
c. OID, after another year of inflation, should thus be $29,628, or 3% of that amount.
But is that correct? Or am I missing some adjustment that would either reduce or expand the OID as the years proceed?
After the first pass, it occurred to me that I was computing OID on an inflation-compounded basis. An alternative would be to compute each year’s OID on the remaining (real) basis. Thus, (green column) the real basis after one year is $958,843 ($41,157 of basis having been withdrawn in the first year). If OID is 3% of that amount, the 2nd year OID drops from $29,628 to $28,765.
In plain English, the hit from phantom income is less under the second approach to calculating OID on TIPS. Over the 20 years, real after-tax income distributed will be about $14,000 greater.
So, which OID calculation is correct, inflation multiplied by the inflation compounded remaining account value, or inflation times the remaining basis? Anybody know?
Why it matters
Note how OID reduces the after-tax real payout in the initial years. That’s why people say a taxable account is the wrong location for a TIPS ladder.
But I can’t calibrate how wrong unless I’ve got the OID calculations correct.
Scheduled Maintenance: The site will be offline Tuesday, January 14, at 8:00 PM Eastern (01:00 UTC) for a forum software update. The update should take less than 1 hour.
OID and TIPS: Calling all tax mavens
OID and TIPS: Calling all tax mavens
You can take the academic out of the classroom by retirement, but you can't ever take the classroom out of his tone, style, and manner of approach.
Re: OID and TIPS: Calling all tax mavens
OID for each acquisition lot is computed as the difference in index ratios at beginning and end of the holding period (here, the full year) times the face value held. The index ratio is a compounding quantity. Your first way is equivalent, so long as your initial OID basis is the sum of inflated face values of the start-date holdings and all dispositions are at par.
To see that the second way is no good, consider the case with no drawdown, a single 20y TIPS (bought at par) and the (convenient to my purpose) combo of zero coupon & constant annual inflation rate = 20th root of two, minus 1....about 3.5265%...throughout the term. So 1 million nominal inflates to 2 million. But using your 2nd method the sum of OID reported over the 20y would be $705.3k, not 1M as required for the cumulative appreciation to have been fully reported and taxed via the OID mechanism.
To see that the second way is no good, consider the case with no drawdown, a single 20y TIPS (bought at par) and the (convenient to my purpose) combo of zero coupon & constant annual inflation rate = 20th root of two, minus 1....about 3.5265%...throughout the term. So 1 million nominal inflates to 2 million. But using your 2nd method the sum of OID reported over the 20y would be $705.3k, not 1M as required for the cumulative appreciation to have been fully reported and taxed via the OID mechanism.
Last edited by ofckrupke on Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: OID and TIPS: Calling all tax mavens
Very helpful, thanks! The argument that 100% of the total inflation adjustments must show up in OID was powerful. That's how I'd write the regulations if I was the Treasury/IRS.ofckrupke wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 2:40 pm OID for each acquisition lot is computed as the difference in index ratios at beginning and end of the holding period (here, the full year) times the face value held. The index ratio is a compounding quantity. Your first way is equivalent, at least under your simplifying condition that all rungs are acquired at par.
To see that the second way is no good, consider the case with no drawdown, a single 20y TIPS (bought at par) and the (convenient to my purpose) combo of zero coupon & constant annual inflation rate = 20th root of two, minus 1....about 3.5265%...throughout the term. So 1 million nominal inflates to 2 million. But using your 2nd method the sum of OID reported over the 20y would be $705.3k, not 1M as required for the cumulative appreciation to have been fully reported and taxed via the OID mechanism.
You can take the academic out of the classroom by retirement, but you can't ever take the classroom out of his tone, style, and manner of approach.
-
- Posts: 3167
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:29 pm
Re: OID and TIPS: Calling all tax mavens
When there are no transactions during a year, the OID for a year is the difference between the inflation-adjusted principal for successive years.
This non-mavin would do the calculations in terms of dollars as of each year and then adjust the after-tax amount for inflation since the initial year to calculate the real after-tax amount (in terms of dollars as of the initial year).
The real after-tax dollar amount would vary little over the years by using a different initial principal for each maturity year. In this case, by having an initial principal that is $400 more for each successive maturity year: $50,400 for the second year, $50,800 for the third year, and so on.
Later added
Here is a table of results for each rung having an initial principal of $50,000.
The purchase principal is that of the rung maturing in the year corresponding to the row. For each year, the other values in each row are:
This non-mavin would do the calculations in terms of dollars as of each year and then adjust the after-tax amount for inflation since the initial year to calculate the real after-tax amount (in terms of dollars as of the initial year).
The real after-tax dollar amount would vary little over the years by using a different initial principal for each maturity year. In this case, by having an initial principal that is $400 more for each successive maturity year: $50,400 for the second year, $50,800 for the third year, and so on.
Later added
Here is a table of results for each rung having an initial principal of $50,000.
Code: Select all
Purchase Start End Maturing OID Coupon Maturing Post-Tax Real
Year Princp. Princp. Princp. Princp. Amount Amount +Coupon Matur+Coup Post-Tax
1 50,000 1,000,000 1,030,000 51,500 30,000 20,600 72,100 59,956 58,210
2 50,000 978,500 1,007,855 53,045 29,355 20,157 73,202 61,319 57,799
3 50,000 954,810 983,454 54,636 28,644 19,669 74,305 62,710 57,389
4 50,000 928,818 956,682 56,275 27,865 19,134 75,409 64,130 56,978
5 50,000 900,407 927,419 57,964 27,012 18,548 76,512 65,578 56,568
6 50,000 869,456 895,539 59,703 26,084 17,911 77,613 67,055 56,157
7 50,000 835,837 860,912 61,494 25,075 17,218 78,712 68,562 55,747
8 50,000 799,418 823,401 63,339 23,983 16,468 79,807 70,098 55,336
9 50,000 760,062 782,864 65,239 22,802 15,657 80,896 71,666 54,926
10 50,000 717,625 739,154 67,196 21,529 14,783 81,979 73,264 54,515
11 50,000 671,958 692,117 69,212 20,159 13,842 83,054 74,894 54,105
12 50,000 622,905 641,592 71,288 18,687 12,832 84,120 76,555 53,694
13 50,000 570,304 587,413 73,427 17,109 11,748 85,175 78,249 53,284
14 50,000 513,987 529,406 75,629 15,420 10,588 86,218 79,976 52,873
15 50,000 453,777 467,390 77,898 13,613 9,348 87,246 81,736 52,463
16 50,000 389,492 401,177 80,235 11,685 8,024 88,259 83,529 52,052
17 50,000 320,941 330,570 82,642 9,628 6,611 89,254 85,356 51,642
18 50,000 247,927 255,365 85,122 7,438 5,107 90,229 87,218 51,231
19 50,000 170,243 175,351 87,675 5,107 3,507 91,182 89,115 50,821
20 50,000 87,675 90,306 90,306 2,630 1,806 92,112 91,047 50,410
- starting principal is the ending principal for the previous year minus the maturing principal for the previous year, except for the first year for which it is the sum of the purchase principal of the rungs
- ending principal is the stating principal adjusted for the inflation rate, 3% per year in this case
- maturing principal is the purchase principal of the maturing rung adjusted for inflation since purchase
- OID amount is the ending principal minus the starting principal
- coupon amount is the ending principal multiplied by the interest rate, 2% per year in this case
- post-tax maturing+coupon is the sum of the maturing and coupon amounts minus the income tax, 24% in this case, on the OID and coupon
- real post-tax is the post-tax maturing+coupon adjusted for inflation
Re: OID and TIPS: Calling all tax mavens
Thanks FactualFran. Your rule (subtract successive inflation adjusted amounts) seems consistent with the idea that 100% of all the inflation adjustments must show up in OID, same argument as Officer Krupke. Am I reading you correctly?FactualFran wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2025 3:05 pm When there are no transactions during a year, the OID for a year is the difference between the inflation-adjusted principal for successive years.
This non-mavin would do the calculations in terms of dollars as of each year and then adjust the after-tax amount for inflation since the initial year to calculate the real after-tax amount (in terms of dollars as of the initial year).
The real after-tax dollar amount would vary little over the years by using a different initial principal for each maturity year. In this case, by having an initial principal that is $400 more for each successive maturity year: $50,400 for the second year, $50,800 for the third year, and so on.
Later added
Here is a table of results for each rung having an initial principal of $50,000.The purchase principal is that of the rung maturing in the year corresponding to the row. For each year, the other values in each row are:Code: Select all
Purchase Start End Maturing OID Coupon Maturing Post-Tax Real Year Princp. Princp. Princp. Princp. Amount Amount +Coupon Matur+Coup Post-Tax 1 50,000 1,000,000 1,030,000 51,500 30,000 20,600 72,100 59,956 58,210 2 50,000 978,500 1,007,855 53,045 29,355 20,157 73,202 61,319 57,799 3 50,000 954,810 983,454 54,636 28,644 19,669 74,305 62,710 57,389 4 50,000 928,818 956,682 56,275 27,865 19,134 75,409 64,130 56,978 5 50,000 900,407 927,419 57,964 27,012 18,548 76,512 65,578 56,568 6 50,000 869,456 895,539 59,703 26,084 17,911 77,613 67,055 56,157 7 50,000 835,837 860,912 61,494 25,075 17,218 78,712 68,562 55,747 8 50,000 799,418 823,401 63,339 23,983 16,468 79,807 70,098 55,336 9 50,000 760,062 782,864 65,239 22,802 15,657 80,896 71,666 54,926 10 50,000 717,625 739,154 67,196 21,529 14,783 81,979 73,264 54,515 11 50,000 671,958 692,117 69,212 20,159 13,842 83,054 74,894 54,105 12 50,000 622,905 641,592 71,288 18,687 12,832 84,120 76,555 53,694 13 50,000 570,304 587,413 73,427 17,109 11,748 85,175 78,249 53,284 14 50,000 513,987 529,406 75,629 15,420 10,588 86,218 79,976 52,873 15 50,000 453,777 467,390 77,898 13,613 9,348 87,246 81,736 52,463 16 50,000 389,492 401,177 80,235 11,685 8,024 88,259 83,529 52,052 17 50,000 320,941 330,570 82,642 9,628 6,611 89,254 85,356 51,642 18 50,000 247,927 255,365 85,122 7,438 5,107 90,229 87,218 51,231 19 50,000 170,243 175,351 87,675 5,107 3,507 91,182 89,115 50,821 20 50,000 87,675 90,306 90,306 2,630 1,806 92,112 91,047 50,410
- starting principal is the ending principal for the previous year minus the maturing principal for the previous year, except for the first year for which it is the sum of the purchase principal of the rungs
- ending principal is the stating principal adjusted for the inflation rate, 3% per year in this case
- maturing principal is the purchase principal of the maturing rung adjusted for inflation since purchase
- OID amount is the ending principal minus the starting principal
- coupon amount is the ending principal multiplied by the interest rate, 2% per year in this case
- post-tax maturing+coupon is the sum of the maturing and coupon amounts minus the income tax, 24% in this case, on the OID and coupon
- real post-tax is the post-tax maturing+coupon adjusted for inflation
You can take the academic out of the classroom by retirement, but you can't ever take the classroom out of his tone, style, and manner of approach.
Re: OID and TIPS: Calling all tax mavens
If no transaction in a calendar year, the tax liability is Interest Payment on 1099 INT, and OID on 1099 OID? I guess if there is a transaction, then we'll receive a 1099-B to reflect any gain/loss?
In an (unlikely) scenario, if there is a deflation adjustment, do we get a tax deduction for that year through a negative OID?
In an (unlikely) scenario, if there is a deflation adjustment, do we get a tax deduction for that year through a negative OID?
-
- Posts: 3167
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:29 pm
Re: OID and TIPS: Calling all tax mavens
You are reading me correctly. With TIPS held in a taxable account, the sum of inflation adjustment amounts for a year should be on a Form 1099-OID issued for the account after the end of the year.
-
- Posts: 3167
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:29 pm
Re: OID and TIPS: Calling all tax mavens
A Form 1099-INT issued for a year should include interest amount from TIPS for the year. A Form 1099-OID issued for a year should include the inflation adjustment amount from TIPS for the year. A Form 1099-B issued for a year should include the proceeds and, for a TIPS acquired during or after 2016, the basis.AQ wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:19 pm If no transaction in a calendar year, the tax liability is Interest Payment on 1099 INT, and OID on 1099 OID? I guess if there is a transaction, then we'll receive a 1099-B to reflect any gain/loss?
In an (unlikely) scenario, if there is a deflation adjustment, do we get a tax deduction for that year through a negative OID?
A deflation adjustment should appear as a negative amount on a Form 1099-OID issued for the taxable account with TIPS. A deflation adjustment for a year first reduces the taxable income from the TIPS for the year. Any excess after that is an ordinary loss for the year up to the taxable income from the TIPS for previous years. Any excess after that is carried forward as a deflation adjustment to the next year.
Later added
For example, suppose only one TIPS is owned. For the
- first year of ownership, Form 1099-INT showed $100 of interest and Form 1099-OID showed $50 as the inflation adjustment
- second year of ownership, Form 1099-INT showed $200 of interest and Form 1099-OID showed -$700 as the inflation adjustment.
- Schedule B that shows the $100 of interest and an OID adjustment that results in a net of $0 taxable interest due to the TIPS
- Schedule A that shows an ordinary loss of $150