Roth conversions for Maryland senior single residents (search for software)

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Church Lady
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Roth conversions for Maryland senior single residents (search for software)

Post by Church Lady »

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

I've been mulling over Roth conversions and tax management strategies. All the tax planning software I've heard of ignores state tax in the calculations. Maryland offers residents 65 years old or older some interesting tax breaks that I hesitate to ignore.

Here are the tax breaks I am aware of that affect tax planning and Roth conversions.

A) Seniors get to add 1000 to the personal exemption of 3200. The 3200 exemption
phases out as federal income exceeds 100 000, but the 1000 is not affected by income.

B) Social Security income (SS) is not taxed. Nor is Railroad Retirement income (RR). Of course, SS/RR is federally taxable, which affects (C).

C) Pension exclusion. To the extent (39,500 - federally taxed SS) exceeds zero, senior singles can deduct the smaller of that amount, or "retirement income", from state income.

Qualifying retirement income includes defined benefit and defined contribution pension plans, 401(a) plans, 401(k) plans, 403(b) plans, and 457(b) plans. N.B. income from a traditional IRA, a Roth IRA, a simplified employee plan (SEP), a Keogh Plan does not qualify for the pension exclusion.

The amount 39,500 is "indexed to the maximum annual benefit payable under the Social Security Act". I haven't found more detail than that, but the clear implication is this amount will increase over time as SS payouts increase.

D) You can claim a 1000 senior tax credit if your Federal AGI < 100,000. There's no phase out; one penny over, and no senior tax credit for you! :oops:

The amount of the senior tax credit can be reduced if the State doesn't meet its revenue targets in a given year.

Implications of these tax breaks:
(1) You could look at (A) and (D) and decide the thing to do is to manipulate your federal AGI below 100 000. That way, you get the senior tax credit and the full 4200 exemption for your state tax return.

(2) Looking at (C), you could say the thing to do is delay claiming SS (or RR) to maximize your pension exclusion. You could also say DO NOT Roth convert all your t401k (or other qualifying accounts) so as to always get a pension exclusion from state income. Nor should you roll all your t401k over to a tIRA.

(3) Again looking at C, you could say delaying SS/RR and Roth converting
(39,500 - pension) each year is a no brainer, as it would be free of state tax.

(4) You could look at (D) and say the thing to do is load up on Muni bonds in your taxable account because that income doesn't increase federal AGI, thereby helping you qualify for the tax credit.

5) You could look at D and say the thing to do is take the senior tax credit while you can before the legislature takes it away. I have no idea how likely this is.

Implications (2) and (3) are straightforward and easy to implement. Implication (4) is easy to do because your total income, federal or state, does not affect your ability to take this deduction. No rocket science needed.


But but but ...

Implication (1) is not easy, at least for me. The bulk of my income is investment income. Pension, Roth conversions, and income from individual stocks I can predict to the dime, but my mutual fund income seems random. It would be very easy to unintentionally go over 100,000. I'd have to sell off mutual funds (oops, additional income!) or forego Roth conversions (is this wise?) to increase my chances of qualifying for the credit.

(6) You could therefore say ignore the senior tax credit when planning a Roth conversion. Convert to top of IRMAA tier, to top of 22% bracket, or 24% bracket, or whatever.

q1) Are implications 1-5 true? Am I missing something here?

q2) Which is better: the 1000 tax credit today, or a Roth conversion and lower RMDs in future? How would you model this mathematically?

q3) Is there software that takes Md taxes and IRMAA tiers into account so I can compare Roth conversions and lower RMDs to the senior tax credit?

Thanks!
Last edited by Church Lady on Tue Dec 03, 2024 4:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity.
HausaPain
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:37 pm

Re: Roth conversions for Maryland senior single residents

Post by HausaPain »

I recommend you take a look at the Maxifi software (maxifiplanner.com). It will take state taxes and IRMAA into account when doing Roth conversions. You enter your age, filing status, state of residence, fixed housing expenses, special expenses, and account balances as of 31 December (taxable, 401k, IRA, Roth). The tool then provides a detailed layout of maximized discretionary income for each year until age 100 (or whatever age you choose). It recommends the amount to take each year from each category of account. Once that base plan is created, scenarios off that plan (Roth conversion amounts in specific years, new car purchase in a specific year, sale of home, moving to another state, etc) can be added and saved. There are options to let the tool maximize your discretionary income, SS, and Roth conversions, while taking all taxes and IRMAA into account.

Note that the tool assumes all investments in each account are in TIPs and yearly TIPS income is calculated and included. Total amount of Unrealized capital gains are entered and part of the tax planning, but specific mutual funds and asset allocation recommendations are not part of this tool. There is a feature called “Upside Investing” that runs Monte Carlo simulations on potential gains to discretionary income if certain asset allocations are employed. Each year the user has to update the base profile with the new 1 January account balances to create the new Maxifi plan to age 100.

I am not affiliated with Maxifi, nor will I be compensated for this recommendation. I am simply a satisfied customer.

Mike
Topic Author
Church Lady
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Re: Roth conversions for Maryland senior single residents

Post by Church Lady »

Thanks for responding. Do you find their state tax calculations up to date? I will read other posts about maxifi.
He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity.
Topic Author
Church Lady
Posts: 859
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Re: Roth conversions for Maryland senior single residents

Post by Church Lady »

Thanks for responding. Do you find their state tax calculations up to date? I will read other posts about maxifi.
He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity.
Makefile
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:03 pm

Re: Roth conversions for Maryland senior single residents (search for software)

Post by Makefile »

Note that you have to subtract your entire Social Security benefit in the pension exclusion calculation. It isn't just the federally taxable amount.

You can also get the personal exemption phaseout back if the only thing that pushed you past $100,000 was US government obligation interest. See subtraction code HH. But there is no such thing for the senior tax credit.
walkindude
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:46 pm

Re: Roth conversions for Maryland senior single residents (search for software)

Post by walkindude »

I'm 66, in MD, and filing MFJ. For MFJ, the exclusion is $39,500 for each and the credit is $1750. I have a lot in my traditional accounts and would like to convert up to the first IRMAA tier, but have decided to limit my conversion to the $150,000 limit to keep the credit. I also opened a solo 401k and put enough in that from a SEP-IRA to fund 5 years' worth of exclusions for 65-70. I'm using the 401k withdrawal to pay taxes for the year, both federal and MD. At 70, my social security will kill the pension exclusion.

Roth conversions were already not a nobrainer in the 22% bracket like they were in the 12% bracket, so I just decided to limit to $150k and get the credit. $1750/year is nothing to sneeze at and it's not assured that the Roth conversions well into the 22% are going to solve the RMD problems anyway (especially if the market keeps going up strongly as I can't keep my traditional accounts all bonds to slow the growth).

The good news is my MD taxes have gone from ~$10k/year to $4500/year since we hit 65.

I'm aware of no calculator that computes this anywhere near precisely. It depends obviously on lots of variables, the main one being how much in the traditional accounts, but many more that aren't as easily quantified. Good luck!
walkindude
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:46 pm

Re: Roth conversions for Maryland senior single residents (search for software)

Post by walkindude »

Oh, yeah, and you're correct that the don't go over calculation is very painful with diverse taxable investments, but definitely leave yourself a couple of thousand so you don't go over if you don't want to!
Topic Author
Church Lady
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Re: Roth conversions for Maryland senior single residents (search for software)

Post by Church Lady »

Makefile wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2024 10:15 pm Note that you have to subtract your entire Social Security benefit in the pension exclusion calculation. It isn't just the federally taxable amount.

You can also get the personal exemption phaseout back if the only thing that pushed you past $100,000 was US government obligation interest. See subtraction code HH. But there is no such thing for the senior tax credit.
Yes. I reviewed the pension exclusion worksheet and edited my original post to reflect this. Thanks.
He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity.
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