Expecting Layoff / How to Prepare

[k3vb0t]

Well, this is a first. In 19 years of my career, I am anticipating a layoff sometime in December.

This is long -- doing a lot of mental processing. Thanks in advance for reading.

My questions for the community:

• What am I not thinking of?
• What resources help you process a change like this?
• Any advice on how health insurance would work
• Poke holes in my thinking below

Besides the awkward feeling of mentally processing this and being the only income in my family (I'm 40, wife is 39 and homeschools, two homeschooled kids under age 12), I am trying to take the Boglehead view. Remain calm. Don't panic. Reassess the finances. Have a checklist. You planned for this -- be happy about that.

A summary of our situation:

• Income would drop to zero
• LCOL area (Tennessee)
• Paid off house
• After tax annual living budget (no vacations, home upgrades, etc.) is around $50,000 not including health insurance
• Only debt: car payment for 2 more years, 1.99%, baked into annual expenses
• Investments of ~$800k in 401ks, Roth IRAs, Traditional IRAs (from rollovers), HSAs, and two small post-tax accounts
• Cash in checking accounts (4%): ~$40k
• Cash in Vanguard VMXX (~4.65%): $100k - building up our emergency fund and saving for hardwood floor replacement

Runway:
By my math, we have 2.8 years of cash available for this emergency, not including health insurance. I could've earned more return in the stock market on the cash sitting there, but incredibly thankful for the "sleep at night" aspect. Would be crushed if it was invested and went down 20%, for example.

Also, I am not planning on any severance. The company will claw back 60% of the "employer match" they have put into my 401k due to my tenure, but I have accounted for this in the above amounts.

Health insurance:
My understanding is my insurance will cut off on my last day, which is hilarious.

With our income going to zero (besides interest), I believe we will qualify for TennCare and CHIP (CoverKids in Tennessee). I have no idea about how this works.

I went to Healthcare.gov but when you put in income of $33,000 or less, it says we wouldn't be able to buy a plan because of Medicare/CHIP in Tennessee.

Thankfully, my wife and kids all just had their recent checkups for health and dental, flu shots, etc. I usually handle my check-ups in Q1. Am in generally good health but wear contacts so need an annual eye exam next summer.

Re-employment Opportunities and Income Recovery:
I have been working in the recruiting space my entire career. There are a lot of layoffs hitting these teams right now, some jobs moving overseas, and AI is being introduced. My prior income was in the upper $100s and I am not confident I will quickly land a role at that level. Being 40 and now with gray hair, I worry a bit about age discrimination. I have not networked as well as I should have, but have former boss' that are aware of my situation and can assist.

My wife at one point was an elementary music teacher and could return to that. She has taught piano on the side as well. The piano teaching would bring in a couple of hundred per month. Considering our low monthly expense this would extend our runway.

We were already considering starting an online business and would accelerate those plans. I have also had a gaming-focused YouTube channel in the past that earned a couple hundred dollars per month. Not anticipating any of this covering the monthly expenses; just pointing out we have prior experience and this is less of a "hope and dream we could do this" and were already working on plans before this news.

Stress, Health, Lifestyle, and Coast FIRE:
The good news is regardless if the layoff happens in December or not, we recently decided this job and company were no longer a fit for me. My hours are long, my stress is high, the team doing the work has shrunk, and the workload has increased. It has not been a healthy place for me for some time. Thus why we were working on the side to build something of our own, and I've already updated my resume and sent it out for review from mentors.

After 19 years straight of zero layoffs or significant time off between jobs, I need to decompress. As a Boglehead with a sense of security tied to employment, this scares me. But even I can admit... I need a break. This could be fortuitous. I would aim to take 2-3 months off, reset my life, and reset my exercise routines.

I also want to spend more time with my kids. The work/life balance has been too far on the work side for about a year. My kids worry about me and ask me to stop working. They will be out of the house in the next decade or so, and I know this time is important.

I have looked to see how close we might be to Coast FIRE. My thought experiment here is if we chose to do something completely different (build a business, immediately take an easy job, whatever) that covered our annual spend, the $800k investments + $140,000 cash becomes "invested assets".

I've used the Coast Fire Calculator by WalletBurst (not sure if I can link it here) with these inputs:

• Age: 40
• Retirement Age: 56
• Annual Spending in Retirement: $70,000 (to account a bit for taxes, health insurance, and not living a barebones lifestyle during unemployment emergency)
• Invested Assets: $940,000 (investments + cash)
• Investment Growth Rate: 7%
• Inflation: 3%
• Safe Withdrawal Rate: 4%

Understanding these are not absolutes, life is variable, but to get a ballpark idea.

It says at my current age and retirement at 56, we need $934,339, and would be Coast FIRE right now.

At 3.5% SWR, retirement age increases to 60.

At 8% growth and 3.5% SWR, retirement age remains 56.

If we drop the invested assets to $800k:

• 7% growth, 4% SWR: Retirement age is 60
• 7% growth, 3.5% SWR: Retirement age is 64
• 8% growth, 4% SWR: Retirement age is 56
• 8% growth, 3.5% SWR: Retirement age is 59

I guess all that to say, it seems we are on the cusp of Coast FIRE which relieves some pressure. I could take an individual contributor job in the same industry at 50% of my former pay, cover all of our expenses, and still have a bit left for fun/investing/etc.

Or we could do something different, work an "easier" job that is less stressful while building something of our own.

My original plan was continuing to put 50%+ of my income into investments for a few more years, then pull the plug.

Social Security Impact on Withdrawal Rate:
I've also used OpenSocialSecurity and ssa.tools to get a ballpark of what our Social Security Income might look like. If we didn't earn another penny of income (0% chance of that, but still) and took SS at 70 (spouse at 62) we would get (current listed amount and 66% of this to account for SS getting slashed):

• Me 63, Her 62: $606 or $400 per month
• Me 70, her 69 total with spouse benefit: $4,009 or $2,646 per month

Final thoughts:
All in all, I know we will be fine and am looking at this as an opportunity to reset.

I am nervous most about health insurance and not thinking of something during a transition period that would catch us by surprise.

Thanks again if you made it this far on Thanksgiving!

[KlangFool]

OP,

1) Take a deep breath! The first cut/laid off is the hardest but you will survive. This is coming someone that had been unemployed for more than 1 year a few times.

2) Find out the COBRA rule. You should be at least eligible for 18 months of COBRA.

3) You can generate more income to qualify for the ACA insurance/subsidy by Roth conversion of your Trad 401K/IRA. So, this is not a problem for 2025.

4) What is your asset allocation?

5) What is the amount in each account? Taxable, Roth, Tax deferred.

"Health insurance:
My understanding is my insurance will cut off on my last day, which is hilarious. "

6) When is your last day? You should be covered for December.

"With our income going to zero (besides interest), I believe we will qualify for TennCare and CHIP (CoverKids in Tennessee). I have no idea about how this works.

I went to Healthcare.gov but when you put in income of $33,000 or less, it says we wouldn't be able to buy a plan because of Medicare/CHIP in Tennessee."

7) You have plenty of options. The question is more along the line of which one is best for you. You can generate any amount of income in 2025 by Roth conversion of your tax deferred account.

"Re-employment Opportunities and Income Recovery:
I have been working in the recruiting space my entire career. There are a lot of layoffs hitting these teams right now, some jobs moving overseas, and AI is being introduced. My prior income was in the upper $100s and I am not confident I will quickly land a role at that level. Being 40 and now with gray hair, I worry a bit about age discrimination. I have not networked as well as I should have, but have former boss' that are aware of my situation and can assist."

8) Update your Linkedin profile and make it as complete as possible. As per age discrimination, I am not sure that matters in your area. People hire people. A recruiter is only as good as his social network/connection. So, I am not sure what do you mean you have not networked as well as you should have. If you have not networked, how do you do your job?

9) The AI craziness will pass. You just have to survive long enough for people to realize this and start hiring.

10) Good luck!

KlangFool

[HooCares]

Make sure you file for unemployment, although I see Tennessee offers an incredibly paltry $275/wk max benefit.

[vinhodoporto]

This is a hard time for you and your family. It’s good you’re preparing and it sounds like you are thinking about the right things.

Agree health insurance is important to figure out now:

- Your health insurance usually goes to the end of the month you get laid off but verify.

- You should be eligible for COBRA which allows you to continue your current insurance at your expense. You have a period of time where you can sign up for it and coverage is retroactive so you have a bit of time to decide. It may or may not be better than Medicaid or the exchange options so you’ll have to do the math.

On the income side a few thoughts:

- With it being the holiday season there may be opportunities for you to pick up short term seasonal work. Potentially something part time that would also allow you to work on your other goals.

- If you and your spouse decide it makes sense, she could probably pick up some extra income from piano lessons and tutoring without impacting your homeschooling. It might take a few months to build up a client base so best to get started.

- If it makes sense for your family I suspect she could pretty easily get a job with a school district or private school or preschool either full time or as a substitute. Full time school district jobs often come with decent health insurance which would be great if you decide to do something more entrepreneurial or to work as a contractor.

- Look into whether you qualify for unemployment benefits and what it takes to get those started.

On the expense side it looks like you’re pretty lean already. See if there are any expenses you could defer for a few months while you figure things out.

[k3vb0t]

OP,

1) Take a deep breath! The first cut/laid off is the hardest but you will survive. This is coming someone that had been unemployed for more than 1 year a few times.

2) Find out the COBRA rule. You should be at least eligible for 18 months of COBRA.

3) You can generate more income to qualify for the ACA insurance/subsidy by Roth conversion of your Trad 401K/IRA. So, this is not a problem for 2025.

4) What is your asset allocation?

5) What is the amount in each account? Taxable, Roth, Tax deferred.

6) When is your last day? You should be covered for December.

7) You have plenty of options. The question is more along the line of which one is best for you. You can generate any amount of income in 2025 by Roth conversion of your tax deferred account.

8) Update your Linkedin profile and make it as complete as possible. As per age discrimination, I am not sure that matters in your area. People hire people. A recruiter is only as good as his social network/connection. So, I am not sure what do you mean you have not networked as well as you should have. If you have not networked, how do you do your job?

9) The AI craziness will pass. You just have to survive long enough for people to realize this and start hiring.

10) Good luck!

KlangFool

Good to see you're still around BH, Klang. Appreciate your wisdom over the years.

I should be able to do COBRA, just not sure how expensive it will be compared to doing some of the other options.

Hadn't thought about Roth conversions to generate income for ACA. Thank you.

I was told by a former boss who left that his insurance was cut on his last day. But not sure if that was tied to his last day being at the end of a month.

Asset allocation: I haven't calculated it at the current level, but 6 months ago it was approximately 62% US, 17% international, 20% US bonds, 1% cash. Portfolio is up ~$70k since then, cash has gone up (sold some individual shares), but remaining contributions to 401k would be 48% US, 32% international, 20% bond. I'd estimate we're still around the 62%/17%/20%/1% noted above.

Traditional vs Roth vs HSA vs Taxable (of the $800k, not the $140k cash):

• Traditional: $350k or 43%
• Roth: $393,030 or 49%
• HSA: 43k or 5%
• Taxable: 20k or 2%

Last day would be whenever I get the meeting invite dropped on my calendar. There was recent corporate action and a majority of people were informed on their last day, no notice. (You might wonder why I have an inkling for myself. Lets just say I got wind of something.)

LinkedIn - done. What I mean by networking is I have focused more on doing my job and less on going to conferences, etc. I have built recruiting teams and worked on the operational aspect of items more recently rather than directly recruiting myself.

Thank you as always.

Make sure you file for unemployment, although I see Tennessee offers an incredibly paltry $275/wk max benefit.

Hey, that's $7,150 over 26 weeks which extends our runway. $1,110 per month covers about 25% of our costs... hadn't even thought of unemployment.

This is a hard time for you and your family. It’s good you’re preparing and it sounds like you are thinking about the right things.

...

Read through this - thanks.

--

Edit: Also, can I just say... I really appreciate this forum. Here I am on Thanksgiving trying to process all of this and people are hopping in with advice. Thank you very much.

[KlangFool]

I should be able to do COBRA, just not sure how expensive it will be compared to doing some of the other options.

k3vb0t,

Depending on the employer, you may be able to know this from your pay slips.

For my pay slip, it listed my portion of the employer health insurance and the employer portion of the health insurance. The COBRA should be 103% of (employee + employer) portion of health insurance.

KlangFool

[gavinsiu]

Sorry to hear about this. I wish I would be more help but you seemed prepare for this than most and the other post had good suggestion for insurance. Many people I know have no emergency savings. Note that in the past, insruance end at the end of the month and not when you quit, but check with HR.

Don't worry about AI and ageism. I am not saying that it doesn't happen, but it may be overblown. I haven't heard of anyone get replaced by an AI. The most onerous part of my work is working past the bureaucracy, I am doubtful that any AI can do that at the moment. If there is a need for your expertise, they will hire you.

[Hebell]

I don't understand why Cobra is being pushed, when you can get on the Tennessee plan for nothing, or very little I suspect.

Another thing you can do is go to healthcare.gov and declare an income that just gets you on an ACA plan and doesn't put you on medical assistance. That way you can get an ACA plan, with a full subsidy.

[k3vb0t]

I don't understand why Cobra is being pushed, when you can get on the Tennessee plan for nothing, or very little I suspect.

Another thing you can do is go to healthcare.gov and declare an income that just gets you on an ACA plan and doesn't put you on medical assistance. That way you can get an ACA plan, with a full subsidy.

Yeah I just looked up what Klang mentioned - if we convert $33k of Traditional to Roth, that qualifies us, and our monthly cost for a 4 star BCBS plan would be $19-23/month. THAT is going to really help me process this and sleep better.

[KlangFool]

I don't understand why Cobra is being pushed, when you can get on the Tennessee plan for nothing, or very little I suspect.

Another thing you can do is go to healthcare.gov and declare an income that just gets you on an ACA plan and doesn't put you on medical assistance. That way you can get an ACA plan, with a full subsidy.

Yeah I just looked up what Klang mentioned - if we convert $33k of Traditional to Roth, that qualifies us, and our monthly cost for a 4 star BCBS plan would be $19-23/month. THAT is going to really help me process this and sleep better.

Glad that it helps!

Happy Thanksgiving!

KlangFool

[nisiprius]

If you are not an experienced interviewee--or even if you are--have someone give you a mock interview while you record video on your cell phone. (Depending on your current workplace situation, it is not impossible that someone in your HR department would be willing to do this). You are almost certain to pick up something you can correct or improve on.

[simas]

Another thing you can do is go to healthcare.gov and declare an income that just gets you on an ACA plan and doesn't put you on medical assistance. That way you can get an ACA plan, with a full subsidy.

it is income estimate anyway, and you will reconcile it at the end of the year 2025 with your taxes. Assuming you see a good plan that works the ACA is likely to be way cheaper than full COBRA costs, no real reason to stay on COBRA.

[simas]

Don't worry about AI and ageism. I am not saying that it doesn't happen, but it may be overblown. I haven't heard of anyone get replaced by an AI. The most onerous part of my work is working past the bureaucracy, I am doubtful that any AI can do that at the moment. If there is a need for your expertise, they will hire you.

it is called 'automation' ,'improvements', etc especially 'efficiency' and happens all of the time. 20 years ago I wrote 'virtual agents' that allow you to interact meaningfully with automated voice response systems - guess what? the needs in call centers do decrease and those people were optimized out of their jobs. 15 years ago I worked on fully online broker-dealers (digital signature, all forms are fully electronic, etc). so your friendly 'broker' was gone, no need for them to exists, no forms to take care of, no trades to execute (ALL trade tickets are online), etc.

and now the spirit of improvement and automation finally reaching actual software development and you can see that in Googles announcement that they fully intend to increase current 25% of the code that AI 'writes' to higher and harder tasks . Guess what will happen to all of those FAANG developers? there would be a lot less need for them.. I currently do a lot of similar work in insurance on various workflows removing a lot of needs for 'financial analysts' that were pivoting/managing/running all of those workbooks of various Excel files. No need for that to be this complicated and no need to have that many analysts too... what use to take multiple people multiple days I can now structure and code in the proper pipeline and provide easy, simple, and deep (if needed) interactive dashboards. Guess what will happen to those analysts?

also, think economics . someone has to pay for all of these fancy AI bots. per user per month models adds up very quickly in corporate settings. So these costs have to be budgeted for and come out of (typically) IT budgets. IT is very tightly managed (i.e. cost of IT per dollar of revenue) so the way to make this balance out is to have less people to pay to. if you are not thinking about it, you probably should..

[Muad-Dib]

As someone who has been through layoffs, my colleagues and I were all ok and in most cases were better off eventually. You must be prepared for the bouts of melancholy that come in waves. Some days I felt great, others I did not.

I’m sure you know it’s all a numbers game of applying so don’t take it personally. I applied to 70 jobs and probably got 15% callbacks with only 1 offer (which I took obviously). It took 5 months since white collar work isn’t as in demand right now anecdotally.

[ROIGuy]

If you still have a couple more 401k contributions before the end of the year I would put my contributions to zero just to get a little more cash on my paycheck because you simply just don't know how long unemployment will last.

[koalb]

OP. A lot of good advice here in this thread. Hang in there. You'll find your way to the other side. I did. I'm 50yo and just encountered a layoff scenario in 2023. I'm a bit surprised that you've worked as long as you have without encountering a layoff. That's no comment on your skills. It's simply the law of averages, especially in the current economic climate.

Assuming you want to find another FT role or similar, check out this book. I find this approach to be very purposeful. Not suggesting you should follow it blindly. Make it work for you.

https://www.amazon.com/Never-Search-Alo ... 158&sr=8-1

Watch this interview with the book's author. A lot of good stuff to consider here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH3nzRdwYPA

[KlangFool]

If you still have a couple more 401k contributions before the end of the year I would put my contributions to zero just to get a little more cash on my paycheck because you simply just don't know how long unemployment will last.

ROIGuy,

I disagreed. If the unemployment lasted longer, even paying 10% penalty later is still giving you more money than paying 20+% taxes now.

KlangFool

[koalb]

OP, regarding your questions about severance and health insurance.

Since you don't have a severance package, you should likely be eligible for unemployment with your state immediately. Making that application is the VERY FIRST thing you should be doing. Unemployment insurance is a benefit you are entitled to as a taxpayer. Take full advantage there.

Regarding health insurance, you should shop and compare. Even if you are not eligible for subsidy on the ACA (Obamacare), it might still be more cost effective for you than COBRA. COBRA can be really, really expensive. Look at a low premium / high deductible plan on the ACA and see if that meets your needs. In your position, the goal is to have catastrophic coverage - so forget about Bronze and Gold level benefits if managing how many dollars you are spending out of pocket during this period of uncertainty is your goal.

Whether you end up with ACA or COBRA, pay close attention to the ability to retroactively pay your premiums and still maintain coverage. In simple terms - ACA and COBRA often will offer you up to 60days of retroactive coverage (you'll need to verify plan specifics). Meaning - SIMPLE EXAMPLE - if your ACA coverage begins on Jan 1, you may have as long as until Mar 1 to actually pay the premium for those first two months, which would allow you to know with certainty whether or not you actually incur any claims BEFORE committing to paying the monthly premiums. Once I had a committed start date with my new job, I didn't pay my last month's ACA premium for the reasons I just outlined for you. It saved me $1100 in monthly premium. And if anyone if my family actually needed care, I would have been able to retroactively pay my premiums. You can leverage this to your benefit - especially once you know what your long-term income strategy looks like.

Also - you only have about 60 days, if I recall correctly, to apply for ACA coverage, given that you are in what is described as a qualifying life event, which makes you eligible for a special enrollment period. It you don't purchase a plan within the next 60 days, you're prohibited from enrolling until the next plan year - which would presumably be Jan 1, 2026. This is happening at a little bit of a weird time because your special enrollment period just happens to line up almost exactly with the annual enrollment period.

COBRA plans operate on a similar timeframe, so you'll want to decide health insurance ASAP. Pay very close attention to the application dates for both COBRA and ACA coverage until you decide your plan.

Also - for routine stuff, doctors love cash pay, and will often offer very reasonable cash pay rates that are comparable with full health insurance coverage. Don't be afraid to ask.

[Golfaddict]

I left a job recently, and the Cobra plan was going to be about 4x of what my payroll deductions were for the family plan. My understanding is that with Cobra you have 60 days to opt in, so it makes sense to wait and see if you can secure another job. I could be wrong but I think if you had a medical event in that 60 day window, you could immediately opt in and be covered retroactive to day 1.

[gavinsiu]

it is called 'automation' ,'improvements', etc especially 'efficiency' and happens all of the time. 20 years ago I wrote 'virtual agents' that allow you to interact meaningfully with automated voice response systems - guess what? the needs in call centers do decrease and those people were optimized out of their jobs. 15 years ago I worked on fully online broker-dealers (digital signature, all forms are fully electronic, etc). so your friendly 'broker' was gone, no need for them to exists, no forms to take care of, no trades to execute (ALL trade tickets are online), etc.

and now the spirit of improvement and automation finally reaching actual software development and you can see that in Googles announcement that they fully intend to increase current 25% of the code that AI 'writes' to higher and harder tasks . Guess what will happen to all of those FAANG developers? there would be a lot less need for them.. I currently do a lot of similar work in insurance on various workflows removing a lot of needs for 'financial analysts' that were pivoting/managing/running all of those workbooks of various Excel files. No need for that to be this complicated and no need to have that many analysts too... what use to take multiple people multiple days I can now structure and code in the proper pipeline and provide easy, simple, and deep (if needed) interactive dashboards. Guess what will happen to those analysts?

also, think economics . someone has to pay for all of these fancy AI bots. per user per month models adds up very quickly in corporate settings. So these costs have to be budgeted for and come out of (typically) IT budgets. IT is very tightly managed (i.e. cost of IT per dollar of revenue) so the way to make this balance out is to have less people to pay to. if you are not thinking about it, you probably should..

It's not that I disagree with you, but these are more longer term issue that the OP probably should not think about while he is looking for work. It's probable that they will need fewer FANNG developer but I feel that they need less FANNG developer recently because they hired too many in the past couple of years. Companies were just collecting talent in case they were needed and they end up not being use efficiently.

However, I don't feel AI is going to affect his job search. If it does, it would help to figure out the method to work for him.

[WhiteMaxima]

Sorry for your situation. Stay calm, find a part time is not diffcult. I see my local Kroger and HomeDept hiring with $21/hr. Not a lot but can survive. There is labor shortage now. You have a paid house and sizable retirement. Keep looking for job. Good luck. One thing you need to do next year is Roth conversion up to 12% tax bracket or even target 0% tax bracket.

[SnowBog]

Sorry to hear the news. If you haven't seen it yet, this post has good information related to being laid off [written for those 50+, but arguably most applies to anyone]. viewtopic.php?t=273092

[Diluted Waters]

I of course don’t know where you are in TN, but you may wish to consider Oak Ridge National Lab (ORNL) or Y12. ORNL seems to have more jobs listed, some might be workable for you.

These national security jobs can be hard to fill sometimes even though they’re often solid, stable jobs with good benefits.

https://jobs.ornl.gov/search/?q=&sortCo ... ction=desc

Y12 doesn’t have much right now in your field but it’s worth watching.

https://career-hcm03.ns2cloud.com/porta ... y=CNSHCM03

While you need a break, I’d suggest taking two or three weeks off then make getting a job your new job. It’s much harder to get a job when you don’t have one, so taking three months off before starting your search will probably set you back and may contribute to more stress rather than less as you worry about making ends meet.

In the meantime, one of those Home Depot or Walmart or Target jobs pays the bills, often has benefits and may be a stepping stone to a new career in your field or a related one that isn’t so hard on you.

Best wishes.

[dboeger1]

In the meantime, one of those Home Depot or Walmart or Target jobs pays the bills, often has benefits and may be a stepping stone to a new career in your field or a related one that isn’t so hard on you.

I more or less washed out of highly paid tech work. I'm not writing off the possibility of returning just yet, but the farther I get from it, the less I feel inclined to return. We are well past the CoastFI threshold, but not yet at what I would call FI, so I recently started a job delivering for Amazon just to cover ongoing expenses. It's not glamorous, but there are some notable benefits. It tends to pay a cut above your run-of-the-mill minimum-wage retail jobs. There was also minimal screening. In my experience, crap jobs can be surprisingly picky about hiring "overqualified" candidates. For this one, I saw the job posting that said "IMMEDIATE HIRE" on Indeed, submitted my application within hours of it going up, and had an "interview" the next day, where they promptly "hired" all 11 applicants without asking for so much as a resume. Of those 11, only 2 of us showed up for the mandatory training, the other quitting after her 1st day, having realized the job is actually hard work. The people driving there are an eclectic mix from all ages and backgrounds who just sort of fell into it for one reason or another. I'm pretty sure it's nobody's dream job.

For those who don't burn out in the first month or so, it can actually turn into a surprisingly flexible arrangement. From what I've witnessed, it seems that once you prove yourself to be at least a decent driver, they can't really afford to let you go. It seems there are many flakey drivers who face no consequences for what would be cause for termination in other jobs. Technically, I don't accrue enough PTO to take off all the time I need due to my daughter's preschool schedule, but there seemed to be a mutual understanding that they really have no intention of firing me, thanks to my performance. Additionally, my understanding is that the DSPs have some sort of agreement that allows employees to transfer between them. This can actually be a big deal because the warehouse sends us out in waves, so choice of DSP determines starting time, among other things (delivery area, vans, etc.). As far as scheduling, I know of at least several drivers who have scaled hours up or down annually or seasonally. 4-day work weeks seem to be the standard, but they also have part-time and seasonal drivers and offer additional days during peaks.

It's a very physically demanding job, sometimes demeaning, and not at all in line with my educational or career qualifications, but it fits with my family life, contributes to my fitness and financial goals, and has given me the mental and emotional distance from an industry that wasn't always kind to me. My wife still works in tech (makes more than I ever did, in fact) so it's not like we're struggling to pay the bills. I was already kind of the Mr. Mom of the house, so now I'm just Mr. Mom with a job that lets me drop off the kid. I figured I'd just throw it out there as an alternative to front-line retail.

[Wash.Invest]

As a BTDT laid off early (40s) homeschooler, with education employment based (previous) SAH spouse....

Follow your desires to be with kids as a life mentor for the next few years they are in the home.

Get the full ACA subsidy by Roth conversions, or finding PT employment that pays well. (I worked night shift, weekends usually as 1099 consultant and also a CDL driver, and I had served a skilled trades apprenticeship that was very high paid and high demand employment). All were exceptional pay and flexibility for a non-degreed worker.

Hopefully you can nab a good WFH consulting gig, and work a few months/ yr for 1 yr income. I would also look into taking Enrolled Agent IRS training if you have skills or interest in tax prep and advising. (All the EA I have inquired of are getting $350-$500/ hr. Lawyer wages for $800 course and certification!). YMMV.

Diligently look into family businesses to engage kids into. Most of our 300+ homeschool group have family businesses, several have employees and provide life long earnings (such as College funds for kids, and career experience and longevity for them).

Teach / expose kids to everything in the household (budget and chores) and available opportunities in your orbit. We weekly volunteered in public schools, senior centers, food banks and meal prep for homeless. Our kids had 4H plus their own businesses, (and Roth IRAs). They cost us very little (no college expenses).

We designed and built homes in our free time and for very intensive home school training, especially budgeting and managing subcontractors and schedules.
Who needs a j-o-b when building and selling a primary home nets you $500k tax free every 24 months? Buy a large parcel and split / build / sell adjoining lots and homes. Capital intensive at first, but LT wealth building very quickly. Kids are a big help!

For career replacement... I like the above idea of linking up with Oak Ridge National Lab, or similar. But... I would focus on quality engagement with kids while teaching at home. Ours were in college by age 16. You can go back to work then, if you must.

[k3vb0t]

How does taking part-time work impact unemployment? If Tennessee offers $275/week and I get a job paying $15/hr for 20 hours per week that would be $300.

Does this negate unemployment for each week of that earning or extend the 6 months for each week you earn more than what unemployment provides? Essentially does the $7,150 Tennessee offers over 26 weeks get stretched out to further weeks or is it negated?

If I kept the same type of job for 3 months and left, could I pick unemployment back up?

[KlangFool]

How does taking part-time work impact unemployment? If Tennessee offers $275/week and I get a job paying $15/hr for 20 hours per week that would be $300.

Does this negate unemployment for each week of that earning or extend the 6 months for each week you earn more than what unemployment provides? Essentially does the $7,150 Tennessee offers over 26 weeks get stretched out to further weeks or is it negated?

If I kept the same type of job for 3 months and left, could I pick unemployment back up?

k3vb0t,

You would have to ask the state government handling this. It is state specific. In the state of Virginia, your unemployment benefit is reduced by your employment income. Your unemployment cannot exceed total benefit. In your example, it will stretch out beyond 26 weeks. It is NOT the duration. It is the total $7,150 benefits stretch over how many weeks. So, if you earn $200 for that week, you get ($275 - $200 =) $75 for that week.

This is how Virginia does this. It may not be relevant for Tennessee.

KlangFool

P.S.: At low income, you may qualify for Earned Income Tax Credit and/or Saver's credit.

[Wannaretireearly]

In the meantime, one of those Home Depot or Walmart or Target jobs pays the bills, often has benefits and may be a stepping stone to a new career in your field or a related one that isn’t so hard on you.

I more or less washed out of highly paid tech work. I'm not writing off the possibility of returning just yet, but the farther I get from it, the less I feel inclined to return. We are well past the CoastFI threshold, but not yet at what I would call FI, so I recently started a job delivering for Amazon just to cover ongoing expenses. It's not glamorous, but there are some notable benefits. It tends to pay a cut above your run-of-the-mill minimum-wage retail jobs. There was also minimal screening. In my experience, crap jobs can be surprisingly picky about hiring "overqualified" candidates. For this one, I saw the job posting that said "IMMEDIATE HIRE" on Indeed, submitted my application within hours of it going up, and had an "interview" the next day, where they promptly "hired" all 11 applicants without asking for so much as a resume. Of those 11, only 2 of us showed up for the mandatory training, the other quitting after her 1st day, having realized the job is actually hard work. The people driving there are an eclectic mix from all ages and backgrounds who just sort of fell into it for one reason or another. I'm pretty sure it's nobody's dream job.

For those who don't burn out in the first month or so, it can actually turn into a surprisingly flexible arrangement. From what I've witnessed, it seems that once you prove yourself to be at least a decent driver, they can't really afford to let you go. It seems there are many flakey drivers who face no consequences for what would be cause for termination in other jobs. Technically, I don't accrue enough PTO to take off all the time I need due to my daughter's preschool schedule, but there seemed to be a mutual understanding that they really have no intention of firing me, thanks to my performance. Additionally, my understanding is that the DSPs have some sort of agreement that allows employees to transfer between them. This can actually be a big deal because the warehouse sends us out in waves, so choice of DSP determines starting time, among other things (delivery area, vans, etc.). As far as scheduling, I know of at least several drivers who have scaled hours up or down annually or seasonally. 4-day work weeks seem to be the standard, but they also have part-time and seasonal drivers and offer additional days during peaks.

It's a very physically demanding job, sometimes demeaning, and not at all in line with my educational or career qualifications, but it fits with my family life, contributes to my fitness and financial goals, and has given me the mental and emotional distance from an industry that wasn't always kind to me. My wife still works in tech (makes more than I ever did, in fact) so it's not like we're struggling to pay the bills. I was already kind of the Mr. Mom of the house, so now I'm just Mr. Mom with a job that lets me drop off the kid. I figured I'd just throw it out there as an alternative to front-line retail.

Fascinating. Thanks much for sharing. Not something we’ll read much about on this forum!

[tacobellcow]

OP are you 40 or older?

If so you are a protected employee and may have grounds to threaten a lawsuit if they do not provide severance. Thus can just be a bluff but you should ask for severance including your 401k match and health insurance.

You have something like 30-45 days to sign any severance agreement they would provide due to your age and there are professionals who do this for a living and can get what’s fair.

Of course if you don’t get anything you’ve also lost nothing from trying.

Depending on your state they may also have to pay you out for vacation.

[simas]

OP are you 40 or older?

If so you are a protected employee and may have grounds to threaten a lawsuit if they do not provide severance. Thus can just be a bluff but you should ask for severance including your 401k match and health insurance.

You have something like 30-45 days to sign any severance agreement they would provide due to your age and there are professionals who do this for a living and can get what’s fair.

Of course if you don’t get anything you’ve also lost nothing from trying.

Depending on your state they may also have to pay you out for vacation.

it does not work like that with any company that has a real HR/benefits/compliance department (and all larger companies do)
- the layoff is planned
- lists are created, reviewed, triple and quadruple checked, etc. amount of severance are determined based on written and communicated company policies (typically based on position rank, years of service, with floors and ceiling calculations)
- Date is picked
- notifications are sent well in advance to comply with WARN , essentially 60 day window of advance notification where you are already gone but they are still paying, benefits still go on, etc and they have the right to 'recall' you.

telling any real employer that "I will sue unless you give me special treatment because I turned 40" (or whatever) will just end up with *shrug*, please work through appropriate channels and goodbye. Company is by law prohibited to treat you (or anyone else) differently to what is written in the policy, that is the very definition of discrimination. Meanwhile you become un-referenceable and will never have a job in that industry again.

[ROIGuy]

If you still have a couple more 401k contributions before the end of the year I would put my contributions to zero just to get a little more cash on my paycheck because you simply just don't know how long unemployment will last.

ROIGuy,

I disagreed. If the unemployment lasted longer, even paying 10% penalty later is still giving you more money than paying 20+% taxes now.

KlangFool

I didn't think about the tax percent difference on an increased paycheck vs. taking an early 401k withdrawal. However, if were talking just a couple of 401k contributions I don't know if the total dollar amount added to the OP's paycheck is that big of an amount in terms of differences in taxes.

[cosmos]

it does not work like that with any company that has a real HR/benefits/compliance department (and all larger companies do)
- the layoff is planned
- lists are created, reviewed, triple and quadruple checked, etc. amount of severance are determined based on written and communicated company policies (typically based on position rank, years of service, with floors and ceiling calculations)
- Date is picked
- notifications are sent well in advance to comply with WARN , essentially 60 day window of advance notification where you are already gone but they are still paying, benefits still go on, etc and they have the right to 'recall' you.

telling any real employer that "I will sue unless you give me special treatment because I turned 40" (or whatever) will just end up with *shrug*, please work through appropriate channels and goodbye. Company is by law prohibited to treat you (or anyone else) differently to what is written in the policy, that is the very definition of discrimination. Meanwhile you become un-referenceable and will never have a job in that industry again.

This pretty much. I have also seen many cases where they just pay out pretty decent severances across the board plus paid health insurance/benefits during a window of time after you are already gone. AKA no one is sueing over this.

If there are companies that provide no warning and no severance/benefits just tossed out one day I have not seen them in recent years.

[KlangFool]

ROIGuy,

I disagreed. If the unemployment lasted longer, even paying 10% penalty later is still giving you more money than paying 20+% taxes now.

KlangFool

I didn't think about the tax percent difference on an increased paycheck vs. taking an early 401k withdrawal. However, if were talking just a couple of 401k contributions I don't know if the total dollar amount added to the OP's paycheck is that big of an amount in terms of differences in taxes.

In the worst case, every dollar helps!

KlangFool

[gips]

I was laid off once over the course of my tech career, had 3 offers the same day, two from my old company where I'd won multiple awards yet nothing prepared me for how badly it impacted my sense of self-worth. In retrospect, I wish I'd hired a therapist for a bit to help me over the rough patch, which lasted about 3 months.

eventually, I co-founded a consulting company where we had a set of good, full-time recruiters. The recruiters were the hidden engine of our company. I suggest you make a spreadsheet of every single person you contacted for recruitment, reach out, let them know you are starting your own company and figure out who among them is hiring and who is interested in opportunities. three to four placements per year should cover your expenses.

best,