How to Pay for Medical School

[austin757]

I am 30 y/o and am in a position where I would like to leave my current role and become a physician. I wanted to get opinions on if I should just pay out of pocket or get some type of loans.

I am in the early stages so haven’t figured out where and when I will be going, or if I can even get into medical school yet. I need to take prereq classes or do a postbac to get my GPA up as well.

-$1.8m investments ($1.2m in taxable in Vanguard ETFs, $600k in 401k, IRA, HSA. $250k in AAPL.

-House is paid off

-Make ~$250k/yr and plan on working while obtaining my postbac/prereq classes to save up more money. Would likely not work at all during medical school.

I know I likely would not come out ahead financially doing this, but it is something I would like to try. How would you go about paying for all this and any other tips?

[livesoft]

Since you have $1,200,000 available for this expense, I would recommend you use it and not take out loans.

Also read IRS Publication 970 especially about the Lifetime Learning Credit. Your income appears to be too high, but maybe with knowledge you can financially engineer your income to your benefit.

[runner3081]

Keep in mind, pending you’re spending level that you will need to have cash to subsidize your salary as a resident and or fellow before actually becoming a physician.

[Box of Rain]

I'm a physician, a pediatric sub-specialist. Growing up, all I wanted to do was to become a physician. It was my dream during my whole childhood.

If you don't take ANY of the rest of my advice and you wind up in medical school, for the love of all that is sacred please at least follow this advice: do NOT go into pediatrics. You will be working until you are 75 years old and have very little savings to retire.

The loans vs pay out of pocket is a bit tough to decide but the loans really add up quickly and that debt gnaws at your heart.

I am late 50's now, hoping to get out as soon as possible. I am glad I went through the process of becoming a physician but I am also glad to be close to getting out of there because it is not even remotely what I thought a career as a physician would be.
I worked for two years after college in a research lab and took grad school courses to enhance admissions chances. Got into my top pick medical school, worked harder for four years than I ever did before, or after in my life, graduated mid-1990s. Let me assure you of a few things so far: No, you definitely will not be able to work at all during medical school; you will need a lot of money for tuition and fees; you will need a lot of money for living expenses during medical school and a minimum of three additional years of residency. That's seven years where your $250K income will not be earned.

You are already 30 which probably feels pretty close to 20 for you, but you are not even there yet for applying to medical school because of the coursework you need to complete before starting medical school. By the time you get done pre-application coursework, medical school, and at least three years of residency you will be about 40. Maybe you are in great shape and have great physical stamina. Life changes for all of us around 40. The energy level starts to drop off, the on-call nights get harder, and you missed out on the financial (and career) freedom of 7-10 years of earnings that would make those long work weeks and longer work nights on call seem OK. Then when you have to keep working through your 50s and 60s because of your lost savings into medical school tuition and supporting your life for those years of training, you are going to be one really bitter, burned out middle aged guy who feels like you made a giant mistake.

Best case scenario is you somehow get to be a cardiac or neurosurgeon, although entering those residencies in your late 30s is going to be a hellish experience, but you get through it somehow and make a million dollars a year until you are 55 and you retire (if you had the discipline to live the whole time like a guy making $250K instead of a million) and then you go find this thread on the Internet and send me a private message telling me what an idiot I was. That's the best case. I guess I would have to quote Clint Eastwood here: How luck do you feel....?

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Let me lastly state for the record that as I said, becoming a physician was my dream when growing up, but if I somehow wound up in your shoes, age 30, your income, no medical career so far, there is no way in any universe or set of circumstances that I'd NOW try to go to medical school. And, like I said, please whatever you do, please do not go into pediatrics. You will work as hard or harder than any adult physician and make 50% of what they make. Best wishes to you for whatever you decide.

[folkher0]

I am 30 y/o and am in a position where I would like to leave my current role and become a physician. I wanted to get opinions on if I should just pay out of pocket or get some type of loans.

I am in the early stages so haven’t figured out where and when I will be going, or if I can even get into medical school yet. I need to take prereq classes or do a postbac to get my GPA up as well.

-$1.8m investments ($1.2m in taxable in Vanguard ETFs, $600k in 401k, IRA, HSA. $250k in AAPL.

-House is paid off

-Make ~$250k/yr and plan on working while obtaining my postbac/prereq classes to save up more money. Would likely not work at all during medical school.

I know I likely would not come out ahead financially doing this, but it is something I would like to try. How would you go about paying for all this and any other tips?

If you really want to do this....

1. You could take out loans, but you don't need to. Loans could make sense if you feel strongly that you will qualify for a program like Public Service Loan Forgiveness.
2. You can sell investments (probably best solution, but then you are trading one future (some degree of financial security) for another (career in medicine).
3. You could sell your house. Depending on where you live and what kind of applicant you are, you may have to move far away anyway.
4. Some schools are becoming free. You still have to pay rent and food. They are very competitive to get in.

You didn't ask this but:

1. Have very specific ideas about how you want to use your medical degree (clinician, scientist, industry, etc). Many people with your kind of financial security would just as soon bail on the whole thing after a couple rough years. For better or worse, part of the reason to plow ahead in the middle of tough training is having no obvious viable alternative career. I know several older students who quit after a few years. Easy to do if you are otherwise established financially. 2 years postbac, 4 years med school 3-7 years residency, Probably 1-3 years fellowship. Add research time maybe. Are you up for all that?

2. At the same time be open minded. If you really decide to do this, you will be exposed to sights, sounds, and other experiences that might make you change who you are and what you know you are capable of. Maybe you're one of the great ones. Probably not, but maybe.

3. Do you have any family? Kids, spouse, etc? They are going to hate this decision. I promise you. You may think they are ok with it now, but they will come to hate it and resent your career. Doubly so if you were making good money doing something else.

Good luck

[Capella]

I will second the recommendation to have serious introspection before committing down that path. I started med school at the age of 22 and finally finished training when I turned 33 (4 years medical school, 3 years residency, 1 year as a hospitalist, 3 years fellowship). I have no regrets for choosing the path I did. I have a job that I enjoy and I am paid very well to do it, but it is a long hard journey. I think back to the calls I did as a trainee 10 years ago and I don't know if I could do it anymore. It is very draining on the body. The opportunity cost for you is enormous. Not just because of the high cost of training, but the loss of income for you during that time. You'll need to get into a highly paid specialty to have any chance of turning this into a good financial move. This typically means longer training time (and there is no guarantee you could get into said fields as they tend to be competitive). Taking into account lost income and tuition, I would estimate this move for you would cost $2-3M. Considering you will be over 40 by the time you get out of training, not a whole lot of time to make up for it.

[flyhalf]

Physician here, specialist in adult and pediatric allergy/immunology.

Starting medical school around age 32 is not unheard of, but very rare. Like it or not, your age will be another hurdle to being accepted into an MD school (DO schools will be easier). Medical school admission committees are consistently looking for ROI from applicants; and you are ~10y less able to provide ROI to society.

If you have a family, I strongly suggest you find another career adjustment that allows you to find meaningful ways to contribute to society. Medical school + post-graduate training (residency, fellowship) is brutal for established families. I did it with small children and an all-star wife. It breaks a lot of relationships, especially those who have already known a life of comfort.

Have you looked into community leadership opportunities, serving on a non-profit board of directors, or establishing a side-gig that helps scratch the itch you feel?

[coffeeblack]

I am 30 y/o and am in a position where I would like to leave my current role and become a physician. I wanted to get opinions on if I should just pay out of pocket or get some type of loans.

I am in the early stages so haven’t figured out where and when I will be going, or if I can even get into medical school yet. I need to take prereq classes or do a postbac to get my GPA up as well.

-$1.8m investments ($1.2m in taxable in Vanguard ETFs, $600k in 401k, IRA, HSA. $250k in AAPL.

-House is paid off

-Make ~$250k/yr and plan on working while obtaining my postbac/prereq classes to save up more money. Would likely not work at all during medical school.

I know I likely would not come out ahead financially doing this, but it is something I would like to try. How would you go about paying for all this and any other tips?

As a doctor myself, I really want to know why you want to go to medical school with such a net worth and income at this stage of you life. I'm 100% sure others are curious as well. Please enlighten us.

[Dusn]

I thought that getting into medical school was pretty easy and even fun. Getting through medschool, residency, and fellowship was brutal.

Then after all that, you realize that all of those problems in healthcare — they’re even worse than you realized and can’t change any of them. You’re now the face of it.

Life is short and unpredictable. I don’t recommend this.

[er999]

Be aware that there is much loan forgiveness for doctors. Typically 10 years of working for a nonprofit and your loans are forgiven. Residency counts and positions that pay very high salaries can still be considered non profit. Perhaps consider borrowing the tuition and living expenses and have to only pay off a small portion of it instead of using your savings. If the programs go away you could pay off with your personal savings.

Since you haven’t gotten any acceptances yet and still need to do prerequisites that will take 1-3 years I’d assume 10 years from now before your started working as a physician since the shortest residency is 3 years so you could start working around 40.

I am a doctor myself and you could definitely do it. Be aware that many doctors don’t like their jobs and the training is long and difficult.

However you could practice for 20-30 years if you wanted. There are many interesting things to learn in medicine and you can, on the best of days, help people in a unique way.

I am sure you could get in someplace, particularly if you were open to DO and foreign med schools. The difficulty is hard to know if you like the job until after you’ve already committed.

Even though doctors complain about money they usually live in nice houses and their kids go to good schools. The most likely pay outcome is a job paying $200-300k / year — the super high paid physicians who post on bogleheads are not the average physician. So financially you likely won’t do better, although you have good job security as a physician with little age discrimination.

[Big Dog]

Agree with the others on. Why?.

But, if you are gonna go down this path, I would look for a full-time intensive post-pac program where you can get your med school prerequisites completed quickly. This will mean quitting work, and paying out of pocket, or taking on loans.

For example, here are two such programs:

https://www.scrippscollege.edu/postbac/

https://premed.georgetown.edu/postbac/

[delamer]

Your best best financially is to enroll in a medical school at an in-state university.

Your medical school costs will be significantly lower than if you go private or out-of-state public.

[forestcity]

Speaking from the perspective of a physician at the end of my career, I don't disagree with much of what's already been posted, with the caveat that only you know what your motivation is to potentially head down this path, and how strong it is.

What you're contemplating would be considered daunting by most (including most of us physicians weighing in here), but it's not undoable, and certainly not without precedent. One of my long-time colleagues and friends graduated from medical school at age 49 (osteopathic school; as someone has already noted, there's still less ageism in the osteopathic medical school world), and nearly 3 decades later she still brings passion to work that eclipses that of many of our colleagues half her age.

This almost certainly doesn't make "sense" financially, but it sounds as though you already intuit that. Again, not a deal-breaker: I wasn't able to save significantly until leaving the military shortly before I turned 40, I've never been very far up the physician pay scale as an academic generalist, my family hasn't wanted for much (with a SAHW), and we're still FI approaching "normal" retirement age.

Good luck with your decision, and be sure to thoroughly count the cost before embarking! Jim Dahle/White Coat Investor has resources that can likely help you decide on loans vs paying out of pocket, if you get that far.

[Anina]

You could apply to USUHS (Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences). This is the military medical school. It costs nothing to apply. You do have to have a Bachelors and must complete certain core classes. You would have to go to the Admissions requirements section to see all that is required. The age cut off is 36, however, you can apply for a waiver.

You would get a regular paycheck while in medical school. You would have to complete so many years as an active duty MD before you can leave the military. I do know people who did not do the whole time who are now MDs working in the community. One was discharged for weight issues and has been working at the VA since. I'm sure that MD will have a very nice retirement.

If you have a spouse, there are spouse clubs to provide support to the spouses. It really is not a bad deal. The TSP (the government's version of a 401k) is a pretty good deal.

Something to think about....

[austin757]

Thanks for the replies so far. I wanted to be an MD early on in life but I was not mature enough and my grades were not good enough. Now that I am a lot older, I am more prepared and focused. I am hoping to become a specialist of some type, not a PCP. I thought schools do not discriminate on age, this is news to me. I hear people saying how difficult residency is, but I have no experience to know how hard it will be. I am in NJ so going to Rutgers or Rowan for medical school would be ideal. Same idea for getting the postbac.

[er999]

Thanks for the replies so far. I wanted to be an MD early on in life but I was not mature enough and my grades were not good enough. Now that I am a lot older, I am more prepared and focused. I am hoping to become a specialist of some type, not a PCP. I thought schools do not discriminate on age, this is news to me. I hear people saying how difficult residency is, but I have no experience to know how hard it will be. I am in NJ so going to Rutgers or Rowan for medical school would be ideal. Same idea for getting the postbac.

If you want to get in I’d apply broadly and be willing to relocate anywhere in the country for an available spot. If you do a post bac program to prepare people for med school they should be able to give advice.

Residency is quite difficult and time consuming. The work restrictions are 80 hours / week now which is still a lot and can include 24 hours in a row.

There’s a lot of competition in med school so hard to get a spot in something like orthopedic surgery or dermatology but if you’d be happy with general surgery, internal medicine, psychiatry, or pediatrics should be achievable for anyone who can graduate from med school. The more competitive fields are possible but no guarantee.

[redrunner]

I'm a physician. I think I can identify with what I see in your question as an envious case of "grass is greener" from a career perspective, mixed with a love of learning, intrigue about anatomy/physiology, and the desire to switch things up. I also know several other physicians who have done a similar thing as you, pursuing medicine as a mid-career change. I started in general surgery, changed to emergency medicine, specialized in interventional pain, and now own a private practice in the rural Midwest, and my own route was fueled by much of the above statement. One of my medical school classmates was 40, had 5 kids with the oldest in high school, a prior career in construction management and did exactly what you're planning. Only you can determine if it's worth it for you, but please have a very clear idea of what you're getting in to before you change.

For your first question: how to pay for medical school? Even though you can pay cash for it, I'd still go for loans or military. Don't pay for it yourself if you don't have to. Currently, you can still get loans forgiven through Public Service Loan Forgiveness if you work for a 501c(3) corporation after medical school and make minimum payments for 10 years. Payments are calculated as 10% of discretionary income, which is a percentage of poverty level adjusted by family. While you're in residency (assuming it's a university or a non-profit hospital) your time there will count toward PSLF, and then you would need to find a nonprofit to work for to finish your payments and have it wiped clean. There are a lot of resources for planning this, and I would encourage you to look into it.

The other option would be to allow for the military to pay for school. Yes, this comes with its own cost as well in working for the government at a lower pay than what you could make in private practice but given the time value of your current nest egg, you're sure to lose out on much more on that if you pay for school yourself.

Now for the biggest question: should you do it? Only you can determine if it's worth it for you. Statistically as a nontraditional applicant you're more likely to get into an osteopathic school, which is more expensive than your typical MD in-state school. You then need to compete and apply for residency through the match, which is an insane, stupid process of endless applications, interviews, and flights and hotels. Hopefully you match to your specialty of choice but not everyone does; sometimes students have to settle for an entirely different specialty. More competitive specialties (read - more lucrative specialties) are harder to get in to. In residency you work 80 hours per week for 3 to 5 years depending on specialty, are on call frequently, and don't have a normal sleep schedule. Sleep is still something that eludes many physicians and dealing with call schedules is the bane of every physician's existence.

If there is another way to satisfy your intellectual curiosity and stay in your current position, I would highly encourage you to explore every other possible way of doing this. It would seem to me that the opportunity cost you currently face is simply too high. If not, then best of luck!

[austin757]

I'm a physician. I think I can identify with what I see in your question as an envious case of "grass is greener" from a career perspective, mixed with a love of learning, intrigue about anatomy/physiology, and the desire to switch things up. I also know several other physicians who have done a similar thing as you, pursuing medicine as a mid-career change. I started in general surgery, changed to emergency medicine, specialized in interventional pain, and now own a private practice in the rural Midwest, and my own route was fueled by much of the above statement. One of my medical school classmates was 40, had 5 kids with the oldest in high school, a prior career in construction management and did exactly what you're planning. Only you can determine if it's worth it for you, but please have a very clear idea of what you're getting in to before you change.

For your first question: how to pay for medical school? Even though you can pay cash for it, I'd still go for loans or military. Don't pay for it yourself if you don't have to. Currently, you can still get loans forgiven through Public Service Loan Forgiveness if you work for a 501c(3) corporation after medical school and make minimum payments for 10 years. Payments are calculated as 10% of discretionary income, which is a percentage of poverty level adjusted by family. While you're in residency (assuming it's a university or a non-profit hospital) your time there will count toward PSLF, and then you would need to find a nonprofit to work for to finish your payments and have it wiped clean. There are a lot of resources for planning this, and I would encourage you to look into it.

The other option would be to allow for the military to pay for school. Yes, this comes with its own cost as well in working for the government at a lower pay than what you could make in private practice but given the time value of your current nest egg, you're sure to lose out on much more on that if you pay for school yourself.

Now for the biggest question: should you do it? Only you can determine if it's worth it for you. Statistically as a nontraditional applicant you're more likely to get into an osteopathic school, which is more expensive than your typical MD in-state school. You then need to compete and apply for residency through the match, which is an insane, stupid process of endless applications, interviews, and flights and hotels. Hopefully you match to your specialty of choice but not everyone does; sometimes students have to settle for an entirely different specialty. More competitive specialties (read - more lucrative specialties) are harder to get in to. In residency you work 80 hours per week for 3 to 5 years depending on specialty, are on call frequently, and don't have a normal sleep schedule. Sleep is still something that eludes many physicians and dealing with call schedules is the bane of every physician's existence.

If there is another way to satisfy your intellectual curiosity and stay in your current position, I would highly encourage you to explore every other possible way of doing this. It would seem to me that the opportunity cost you currently face is simply too high. If not, then best of luck!

Thank you for your post. I agree that I have a strong love of learning and curiosity when it comes to anatomy and medicine. I read a ton, not just about medicine, but in many areas that I find interesting. I do feel like I have grown out of my current field, but I don’t mind the work that much. This is basically a dream that has been in the back of my mind for a long time. I feel it’s now or never, more or less.

[Radman]

Agree with others in that you should very carefully consider why you want to switch careers and go down this path. But presuming its for the right reasons, it can work out. I have a colleague who started out of undergrad as an engineer and worked for 5 years before returning to medical school and post grad training. She started with our group out of fellowship at the age of 37 and seems happy with her career switch. Some medical schools really like the non traditional students.

As far as how to pay for medical school, you have two options:
1. Pay cash from savings, you have it. Might as well use it. Least complicated. Live like a resident, as Jim Dahl would say, while in medical school and post grad training. It will likely be a 7-12 year time period depending on what specialty you pursue. When your finished you have the freedom to take any job you like.

2. Take out loans planning specifically for a loan forgiveness strategy. Go to medical school then work 10 years for qualified employers. If you have a long post grad training like some surgeons your PGY years could easily be up to 6-7 of the 10. After 10 years the loans are forgiven. Financially you could come out ahead compared to paying out of savings. Make sure you know the rules, be meticulous with documentation, and be aware (and okay with) how this may limit where you can practice or what jobs you can take. If you have your heart set on being a pediatrician in a small rural town this could work out nicely.

State schools are the best bang for your tuition buck. Your ideal situation would be that you live in a town with a state medical school that you have a shot at getting into, but that may not be realistic. If you have to go to a more expensive school and move/sell your house, that adds significant cost.

Good luck with your decision.

[snowday2022]

Be aware that there is much loan forgiveness for doctors. Typically 10 years of working for a nonprofit and your loans are forgiven. Residency counts and positions that pay very high salaries can still be considered non profit. Perhaps consider borrowing the tuition and living expenses and have to only pay off a small portion of it instead of using your savings. If the programs go away you could pay off with your personal savings.

Since you haven’t gotten any acceptances yet and still need to do prerequisites that will take 1-3 years I’d assume 10 years from now before your started working as a physician since the shortest residency is 3 years so you could start working around 40.

I am a doctor myself and you could definitely do it. Be aware that many doctors don’t like their jobs and the training is long and difficult.

However you could practice for 20-30 years if you wanted. There are many interesting things to learn in medicine and you can, on the best of days, help people in a unique way.

I am sure you could get in someplace, particularly if you were open to DO and foreign med schools. The difficulty is hard to know if you like the job until after you’ve already committed.

Even though doctors complain about money they usually live in nice houses and their kids go to good schools. The most likely pay outcome is a job paying $200-300k / year — the super high paid physicians who post on bogleheads are not the average physician. So financially you likely won’t do better, although you have good job security as a physician with little age discrimination.

This is a more balanced perspective IMO. I am a doctor and love my job, having finished training in mid 30s and I am doing very well financially but in a highly paid specialty and I work long hours still. It was and still is hard on my family. But it is very rewarding work.

OP, how about as a compromise, becoming an NP, PA, or perhaps CRNA? Much shorter paths and can get you similar comp to an “average” MD salary. You can even practice borderline independently.

[Living Free]

OP- do you have a family? Do you want to start one within the next 10 years? Edit, to further elaborate, as noted above, this process of forging a physician can be pretty demanding at the expense of everything else in life including your family.

[BorqaZ]

Most employers seem to have a medical school loan repayment fund to their newly minted physician employees. So take loans.

[Derpalator]

I'm a physician, a pediatric sub-specialist. Growing up, all I wanted to do was to become a physician. It was my dream during my whole childhood.

If you don't take ANY of the rest of my advice and you wind up in medical school, for the love of all that is sacred please at least follow this advice: do NOT go into pediatrics. You will be working until you are 75 years old and have very little savings to retire.

The loans vs pay out of pocket is a bit tough to decide but the loans really add up quickly and that debt gnaws at your heart.

I am late 50's now, hoping to get out as soon as possible. I am glad I went through the process of becoming a physician but I am also glad to be close to getting out of there because it is not even remotely what I thought a career as a physician would be.
I worked for two years after college in a research lab and took grad school courses to enhance admissions chances. Got into my top pick medical school, worked harder for four years than I ever did before, or after in my life, graduated mid-1990s. Let me assure you of a few things so far: No, you definitely will not be able to work at all during medical school; you will need a lot of money for tuition and fees; you will need a lot of money for living expenses during medical school and a minimum of three additional years of residency. That's seven years where your $250K income will not be earned.

You are already 30 which probably feels pretty close to 20 for you, but you are not even there yet for applying to medical school because of the coursework you need to complete before starting medical school. By the time you get done pre-application coursework, medical school, and at least three years of residency you will be about 40. Maybe you are in great shape and have great physical stamina. Life changes for all of us around 40. The energy level starts to drop off, the on-call nights get harder, and you missed out on the financial (and career) freedom of 7-10 years of earnings that would make those long work weeks and longer work nights on call seem OK. Then when you have to keep working through your 50s and 60s because of your lost savings into medical school tuition and supporting your life for those years of training, you are going to be one really bitter, burned out middle aged guy who feels like you made a giant mistake.

Best case scenario is you somehow get to be a cardiac or neurosurgeon, although entering those residencies in your late 30s is going to be a hellish experience, but you get through it somehow and make a million dollars a year until you are 55 and you retire (if you had the discipline to live the whole time like a guy making $250K instead of a million) and then you go find this thread on the Internet and send me a private message telling me what an idiot I was. That's the best case. I guess I would have to quote Clint Eastwood here: How luck do you feel....?

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Let me lastly state for the record that as I said, becoming a physician was my dream when growing up, but if I somehow wound up in your shoes, age 30, your income, no medical career so far, there is no way in any universe or set of circumstances that I'd NOW try to go to medical school. And, like I said, please whatever you do, please do not go into pediatrics. You will work as hard or harder than any adult physician and make 50% of what they make. Best wishes to you for whatever you decide.

Harsh bro. Gee. I did everything this bloke is contemplating with much less money to start but similar earning potential. Started practice a few months short of forty. Paid off school/residency loans with first two paychecks as an attending. Then wasted my earnings for about a decade before waking up and adhering to boglehead standards. Retired at age 61; yeah I know I blew it by profligate spending and naivety in investing and falling into personal finance potholes, but did manage to have a near eight figure portfolio at retirement. Most importantly, I feel I made the right decision. Not an easy path. Robert Browning said it best: “ A man’s reach should exceed his grasp. Or what’s a heaven for?” Best wishes to OP and you.

[protagonist]

I am 30 y/o and am in a position where I would like to leave my current role and become a physician. I wanted to get opinions on if I should just pay out of pocket or get some type of loans.

I am in the early stages so haven’t figured out where and when I will be going, or if I can even get into medical school yet. I need to take prereq classes or do a postbac to get my GPA up as well.

-$1.8m investments ($1.2m in taxable in Vanguard ETFs, $600k in 401k, IRA, HSA. $250k in AAPL.

-House is paid off

-Make ~$250k/yr and plan on working while obtaining my postbac/prereq classes to save up more money. Would likely not work at all during medical school.

I know I likely would not come out ahead financially doing this, but it is something I would like to try. How would you go about paying for all this and any other tips?

WOW! Congratulations! You will be one rich 30 y.o. med student! Most people retire on a lot less than what you have.

When I was in med. school I had a hard time paying my $90/mo rent....had to do work/study , take side jobs...knew what day of the week every hospital in the city had a conference with a free lunch.

Pay for school with cash and enjoy being debt-free. And don't waste your youth.... have fun spending some of your money . You will make enough as a doctor to make up for it.

Make money but don't let money make you.

[ResearchMed]

From your previous posts, it seems that you might be uncertain about just what you want to do with your life, so starting a multi-year - and expensive - commitment starting with prep, med school, residencies, etc., might be premature.

You've expressed interest in becoming a master plumber and, separately, an attorney. And also becoming a partner at something, perhaps "a law firm or big accounting"...

And elsewhere, you express concern more generally about where your life is going, or feeling like a loser. (Note: We all tend to have our moments, so please don't misunderstand my comment. It's just that you may still be pretty unsure about just what you want to do...)

And then there is some issue about possibly buying your parents' home for a *very* steep discount [$1.00?] without seeming to understand some of their future health care costs (Medicaid if needed within 5 years) OR... how one would need to structure the purchase so as not to run afoul of tax laws. Some of your ideas seem very close to tax fraud, even if you are not intending it that way. My point here is, again, that you still need to do some serious exploring and thinking about what you are going to be doing.
However, if you are seriously considering med school, residencies, etc., this might not be a good time to buy a house at all. You may not have a lot of choice about just where you spend quite a few years in the coming decade or so.

And you mentioned having no interest in ever marrying or even dating, but then you have a child and are separated from the mother... and then you'd be living with a family (partner and child?). It's not very clear, except your understandable concern about care of a young child in an uncertain world, etc.

And then there is the airplane you were considering purchasing only a few months ago. Are you already a pilot, or would you be starting at ground zero?
And what about your concern about feeling behind with savings? Did that situation resolve in just a few years such that an expensive hobby is also in the cards?

Is it possible that you are having a bit of an early mid-life crisis?
Nothing wrong with that, of course (and you certainly wouldn't be the first!), but you probably should make some decisions before heading off on any of the potentially long-term and expensive trajectories.

Apologies if I've misunderstood your situation. "You know you" much better than any of us can from a few hundred posts on many topics, and there's no surprise there. But it could make it difficult for us to understand your actual situation such that we could make useful suggestions.

If your planning has solidified, perhaps you could add that information?
Some of this could be *very* relevant and important. For example, do you have a spouse/long-term partner and family? If so, how does your partner feel about what life may be like while you get prepared for medical school and then go through that multi-year, stressful process? It's likely tough even with the best support, but if that's *not* there... I'd think long and hard, and have some long and hard discussions.

Good luck with your decision, and I wish you well, regardless of the path you take!

RM

[Metsfan91]

Pay from taxable. Liquidate as needed.

[protagonist]

From your previous posts, it seems that you might be uncertain about just what you want to do with your life, so starting a multi-year - and expensive - commitment starting with prep, med school, residencies, etc., might be premature.

You've expressed interest in becoming a master plumber and, separately, an attorney. And also becoming a partner at something, perhaps "a law firm or big accounting"...

And elsewhere, you express concern more generally about where your life is going, or feeling like a loser. (Note: We all tend to have our moments, so please don't misunderstand my comment. It's just that you may still be pretty unsure about just what you want to do...)

And then there is some issue about possibly buying your parents' home for a *very* steep discount [$1.00?] without seeming to understand some of their future health care costs (Medicaid if needed within 5 years) OR... how one would need to structure the purchase so as not to run afoul of tax laws. Some of your ideas seem very close to tax fraud, even if you are not intending it that way. My point here is, again, that you still need to do some serious exploring and thinking about what you are going to be doing.
However, if you are seriously considering med school, residencies, etc., this might not be a good time to buy a house at all. You may not have a lot of choice about just where you spend quite a few years in the coming decade or so.

And you mentioned having no interest in ever marrying or even dating, but then you have a child and are separated from the mother... and then you'd be living with a family (partner and child?). It's not very clear, except your understandable concern about care of a young child in an uncertain world, etc.

And then there is the airplane you were considering purchasing only a few months ago. Are you already a pilot, or would you be starting at ground zero?
And what about your concern about feeling behind with savings? Did that situation resolve in just a few years such that an expensive hobby is also in the cards?

Is it possible that you are having a bit of an early mid-life crisis?
Nothing wrong with that, of course (and you certainly wouldn't be the first!), but you probably should make some decisions before heading off on any of the potentially long-term and expensive trajectories.

Apologies if I've misunderstood your situation. "You know you" much better than any of us can from a few hundred posts on many topics, and there's no surprise there. But it could make it difficult for us to understand your actual situation such that we could make useful suggestions.

If your planning has solidified, perhaps you could add that information?
Some of this could be *very* relevant and important. For example, do you have a spouse/long-term partner and family? If so, how does your partner feel about what life may be like while you get prepared for medical school and then go through that multi-year, stressful process? It's likely tough even with the best support, but if that's *not* there... I'd think long and hard, and have some long and hard discussions.

Good luck with your decision, and I wish you well, regardless of the path you take!

RM

Oh, how interesting! 30 y o multimillionaire who wants to be a plumber/accountant/lawyer/pilot/physician...and all the family drama...and what you allude to as "borderline tax fraud"....Sounds like an episode of Succession.
When I posted what I wrote above I was ignorant of all this. In this thread he seemed so definite.
I wonder if he is for real. If he really posted all of that before, either he is very interesting, very confused (not a bad thing...even more than I was in my youth), or just trolling.
If one of the first two options, and he can convince us it is not the third, maybe we can help him.

[DDGD432]

I am 30 y/o and am in a position where I would like to leave my current role and become a physician. I wanted to get opinions on if I should just pay out of pocket or get some type of loans.

I am in the early stages so haven’t figured out where and when I will be going, or if I can even get into medical school yet. I need to take prereq classes or do a postbac to get my GPA up as well.

-$1.8m investments ($1.2m in taxable in Vanguard ETFs, $600k in 401k, IRA, HSA. $250k in AAPL.

-House is paid off

-Make ~$250k/yr and plan on working while obtaining my postbac/prereq classes to save up more money. Would likely not work at all during medical school.

I know I likely would not come out ahead financially doing this, but it is something I would like to try. How would you go about paying for all this and any other tips?

I felt old in my med school class starting at age 28.

If you are missing some sort of meaning in your life and want to help people to fill that void, there are many ways more meaningful than becoming a doctor. For example, Find some sort of volunteer organization where you can help elderly people or disadvantages kids.

If you must go the dr route, consider loans and pslf.

[Rex66]

People underestimate how hard it is to get in

Doing well on the mcat is a must. Most applications have been doing all sorts of activities for years to pad their resumes.

Besides prerequisites it is at the minimum a 7 year journey

Funny enough I know several happy pediatricians. It is a lower paying specialty and you have to be able to look past that.

[lepegasus]

Interest rates and initial distribution costs make even government student loans hefty. Unless you are planning for PSLF, I would consider paying out of pocket. Most schools have payment plans, and you can usually make 4-5 payments per semester. At the very least, that'll keep your money growing in MMF until it's time to pony up. That's what I'm currently doing. In-state tuition will cost about half of what private or out of state tuition costs.

I'm currently in a post graduate healthcare program at 38 and will finish at 40. I left a job making ~150k a year which I was comfortable in to push and challenge myself. The finances will even out in the end.

Best of luck to you.

[alrick]

If your interest is entering the health care field, perhaps you might consider the role of physician assistant. PAs are a key component in providing health services to patients and in many settings perform most of the same services provided by MDs. The PA is usually a two year program. This might be an alternative to consider...less time, less money,,,,,and provides mobility/opportunity to work in different places and environments.

[YeahBuddy]

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Exactly my thought. No mortgage, $1.8M portfolio? I'd be getting close to FIRE at that point.

[snowday2022]

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Exactly my thought. No mortgage, $1.8M portfolio? I'd be getting close to FIRE at that point.

On the other hand, OP has a NW over 2M. Even if he pays cash for med school and saves nothing, his investments will continue to grow. He could go into a low paid specialty and can still FIRE just with compound interest. There is more to life than money and this has always been his dream.

[Carguy85]

Is this a joke? You are a 30 y/o pilot making $250k. A year or two ago it was in the news that wide body top pay was near $500k….Waaaaay cooler profession than a healthcare provider IMO. I enjoy helping people but think how things would/could be if I did what I really wanted instead of dental school….fly professionally. I remember when I was in undergrad there was an airline pilot in one of my biology classes going back to be a nurse..I couldn’t help but think how baffling that was to me.

[folkher0]

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Exactly my thought. No mortgage, $1.8M portfolio? I'd be getting close to FIRE at that point.

On the other hand, OP has a NW over 2M. Even if he pays cash for med school and saves nothing, his investments will continue to grow. He could go into a low paid specialty and can still FIRE just with compound interest. There is more to life than money and this has always been his dream.

Hate to be this way, but a "dream" is just not enough. I always dreamed of becoming an astronaut. Its not gonna happen for me. I never dreamed of becoming a surgeon, but here I am.

Dreams don't pay the bills. Dreams don't help when you're up all night operating for 3 days. Dreams don't help when you miss your kids baseball games, birthdays, graduations. They don't help when you're arguing with your spouse because your program director gave you 1 week off for paternity leave (it used to be less). They don't help with words like "forbearance" and "default". Don't help when you get assaulted by a patient, or when one dies with your hands in their chest.

This is a financial forum. For OP this is a very bad financial decision.

There I said it.

[austin757]

I am definitely going through a mid life crisis if some sort, that is true. I feel like I have reached the peak of my current career as an airline pilot. I have low expenses and hobbies that are mostly free.

I can use my savings and still have long enough to catch up if I don’t want to retire early.

[protagonist]

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Exactly my thought. No mortgage, $1.8M portfolio? I'd be getting close to FIRE at that point.

On the other hand, OP has a NW over 2M. Even if he pays cash for med school and saves nothing, his investments will continue to grow. He could go into a low paid specialty and can still FIRE just with compound interest. There is more to life than money and this has always been his dream.

+1. There is much more to happiness than how rich you can possibly be (especially when you are already rich...many studies have confirmed that, at least beyond a point, additional money does not buy additional happiness, and not everybody believes that choice of profession should only boil down to money. Some people find medicine profoundly interesting, and/or their calling in life. That is true of many other professions as well.

That said, regarding this particular case, read ResearchMed's post above. Given many of the responses, I would guess that many missed that.

[yankees60]

I'm a physician, a pediatric sub-specialist. Growing up, all I wanted to do was to become a physician. It was my dream during my whole childhood.

If you don't take ANY of the rest of my advice and you wind up in medical school, for the love of all that is sacred please at least follow this advice: do NOT go into pediatrics. You will be working until you are 75 years old and have very little savings to retire.

The loans vs pay out of pocket is a bit tough to decide but the loans really add up quickly and that debt gnaws at your heart.

I am late 50's now, hoping to get out as soon as possible. I am glad I went through the process of becoming a physician but I am also glad to be close to getting out of there because it is not even remotely what I thought a career as a physician would be.
I worked for two years after college in a research lab and took grad school courses to enhance admissions chances. Got into my top pick medical school, worked harder for four years than I ever did before, or after in my life, graduated mid-1990s. Let me assure you of a few things so far: No, you definitely will not be able to work at all during medical school; you will need a lot of money for tuition and fees; you will need a lot of money for living expenses during medical school and a minimum of three additional years of residency. That's seven years where your $250K income will not be earned.

You are already 30 which probably feels pretty close to 20 for you, but you are not even there yet for applying to medical school because of the coursework you need to complete before starting medical school. By the time you get done pre-application coursework, medical school, and at least three years of residency you will be about 40. Maybe you are in great shape and have great physical stamina. Life changes for all of us around 40. The energy level starts to drop off, the on-call nights get harder, and you missed out on the financial (and career) freedom of 7-10 years of earnings that would make those long work weeks and longer work nights on call seem OK. Then when you have to keep working through your 50s and 60s because of your lost savings into medical school tuition and supporting your life for those years of training, you are going to be one really bitter, burned out middle aged guy who feels like you made a giant mistake.

Best case scenario is you somehow get to be a cardiac or neurosurgeon, although entering those residencies in your late 30s is going to be a hellish experience, but you get through it somehow and make a million dollars a year until you are 55 and you retire (if you had the discipline to live the whole time like a guy making $250K instead of a million) and then you go find this thread on the Internet and send me a private message telling me what an idiot I was. That's the best case. I guess I would have to quote Clint Eastwood here: How luck do you feel....?

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Let me lastly state for the record that as I said, becoming a physician was my dream when growing up, but if I somehow wound up in your shoes, age 30, your income, no medical career so far, there is no way in any universe or set of circumstances that I'd NOW try to go to medical school. And, like I said, please whatever you do, please do not go into pediatrics. You will work as hard or harder than any adult physician and make 50% of what they make. Best wishes to you for whatever you decide.

I was the accountant for a physicians pediatrics group practice in the early 2000s. It must have been an exceptionally well-run practice because all of them were doing quite well financially on an annual basis.

[cmr79]

I am definitely going through a mid life crisis if some sort, that is true. I feel like I have reached the peak of my current career as an airline pilot. I have low expenses and hobbies that are mostly free.

I can use my savings and still have long enough to catch up if I don’t want to retire early.

Do you have some sort of compelling backstory, like you were part of a medical emergency during a flight or have an interest in combining your expertise into an aerospace medicine/flight surgeon career?

I knew several nontraditional/older students in medical school, and it is definitely a tougher path to travel for reasons that have been well established above. If you are truly dedicated to this, it needs to be because you view this as a calling and something you NEED to do, not because it is a financially good or bad idea (financially it almost certainly won't pencil out over continuing your current career, but it sounds like you don't think what you are currently doing is sustainable anyway).

If so, you need to come up with a way to convince at least one med school admissions committee of both your conviction and your ability. You will absolutely be penalized/scrutinized for your age and nontraditional path, even if no school would admit to this, as others have mentioned. You will need excellent grades on recent premed course requirements and above average MCAT scores compared to the places you apply. You will probably need to apply to 20+ schools, including most/all in the NE/Mid-Atlantic region if you have a desire/family reasons to try to remain in that area.

If you are seeking greater meaning in your work, have you considered switching from being an airline pilot to an area of aviation you might find more meaningful, perhaps something medically related like being a medical air transport pilot? Your background may be helpful in a management position in a medical transport service, whereas it will mean very little to being a subspecialist physician outside of the niche field of aerospace medicine.

If you just feel very deeply that you want to be in a purely clinical role and make a complete break from your aviation past, you should also consider PA programs. The training pathway is much shorter and the programs are generally much more accepting of nontraditional applicants. If you don't intend to work in a clinical role beyond normal retirement ages or would want to work part time after your early to mid 50s, the financial and time penalties of medical school/residency/fellowship probably won't have time to pay off vs becoming a PA and working in the exact same field in a supervised role.

[cmr79]

I'm a physician, a pediatric sub-specialist. Growing up, all I wanted to do was to become a physician. It was my dream during my whole childhood.

If you don't take ANY of the rest of my advice and you wind up in medical school, for the love of all that is sacred please at least follow this advice: do NOT go into pediatrics. You will be working until you are 75 years old and have very little savings to retire.

The loans vs pay out of pocket is a bit tough to decide but the loans really add up quickly and that debt gnaws at your heart.

I am late 50's now, hoping to get out as soon as possible. I am glad I went through the process of becoming a physician but I am also glad to be close to getting out of there because it is not even remotely what I thought a career as a physician would be.
I worked for two years after college in a research lab and took grad school courses to enhance admissions chances. Got into my top pick medical school, worked harder for four years than I ever did before, or after in my life, graduated mid-1990s. Let me assure you of a few things so far: No, you definitely will not be able to work at all during medical school; you will need a lot of money for tuition and fees; you will need a lot of money for living expenses during medical school and a minimum of three additional years of residency. That's seven years where your $250K income will not be earned.

You are already 30 which probably feels pretty close to 20 for you, but you are not even there yet for applying to medical school because of the coursework you need to complete before starting medical school. By the time you get done pre-application coursework, medical school, and at least three years of residency you will be about 40. Maybe you are in great shape and have great physical stamina. Life changes for all of us around 40. The energy level starts to drop off, the on-call nights get harder, and you missed out on the financial (and career) freedom of 7-10 years of earnings that would make those long work weeks and longer work nights on call seem OK. Then when you have to keep working through your 50s and 60s because of your lost savings into medical school tuition and supporting your life for those years of training, you are going to be one really bitter, burned out middle aged guy who feels like you made a giant mistake.

Best case scenario is you somehow get to be a cardiac or neurosurgeon, although entering those residencies in your late 30s is going to be a hellish experience, but you get through it somehow and make a million dollars a year until you are 55 and you retire (if you had the discipline to live the whole time like a guy making $250K instead of a million) and then you go find this thread on the Internet and send me a private message telling me what an idiot I was. That's the best case. I guess I would have to quote Clint Eastwood here: How luck do you feel....?

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Let me lastly state for the record that as I said, becoming a physician was my dream when growing up, but if I somehow wound up in your shoes, age 30, your income, no medical career so far, there is no way in any universe or set of circumstances that I'd NOW try to go to medical school. And, like I said, please whatever you do, please do not go into pediatrics. You will work as hard or harder than any adult physician and make 50% of what they make. Best wishes to you for whatever you decide.

I was the accountant for a physicians pediatrics group practice in the early 2000s. It must have been an exceptionally well-run practice because all of them were doing quite well financially on an annual basis.

Pediatricians have the same financial and time investments in training but do make considerably less than adult physician counterparts. They may do well compared to 95% of other people, but they absolutely get the short end of the compensation stock compared to physicians as a whole, which I think was the point being made.

[yankees60]

I'm a physician, a pediatric sub-specialist. Growing up, all I wanted to do was to become a physician. It was my dream during my whole childhood.

If you don't take ANY of the rest of my advice and you wind up in medical school, for the love of all that is sacred please at least follow this advice: do NOT go into pediatrics. You will be working until you are 75 years old and have very little savings to retire.

The loans vs pay out of pocket is a bit tough to decide but the loans really add up quickly and that debt gnaws at your heart.

I am late 50's now, hoping to get out as soon as possible. I am glad I went through the process of becoming a physician but I am also glad to be close to getting out of there because it is not even remotely what I thought a career as a physician would be.
I worked for two years after college in a research lab and took grad school courses to enhance admissions chances. Got into my top pick medical school, worked harder for four years than I ever did before, or after in my life, graduated mid-1990s. Let me assure you of a few things so far: No, you definitely will not be able to work at all during medical school; you will need a lot of money for tuition and fees; you will need a lot of money for living expenses during medical school and a minimum of three additional years of residency. That's seven years where your $250K income will not be earned.

You are already 30 which probably feels pretty close to 20 for you, but you are not even there yet for applying to medical school because of the coursework you need to complete before starting medical school. By the time you get done pre-application coursework, medical school, and at least three years of residency you will be about 40. Maybe you are in great shape and have great physical stamina. Life changes for all of us around 40. The energy level starts to drop off, the on-call nights get harder, and you missed out on the financial (and career) freedom of 7-10 years of earnings that would make those long work weeks and longer work nights on call seem OK. Then when you have to keep working through your 50s and 60s because of your lost savings into medical school tuition and supporting your life for those years of training, you are going to be one really bitter, burned out middle aged guy who feels like you made a giant mistake.

Best case scenario is you somehow get to be a cardiac or neurosurgeon, although entering those residencies in your late 30s is going to be a hellish experience, but you get through it somehow and make a million dollars a year until you are 55 and you retire (if you had the discipline to live the whole time like a guy making $250K instead of a million) and then you go find this thread on the Internet and send me a private message telling me what an idiot I was. That's the best case. I guess I would have to quote Clint Eastwood here: How luck do you feel....?

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Let me lastly state for the record that as I said, becoming a physician was my dream when growing up, but if I somehow wound up in your shoes, age 30, your income, no medical career so far, there is no way in any universe or set of circumstances that I'd NOW try to go to medical school. And, like I said, please whatever you do, please do not go into pediatrics. You will work as hard or harder than any adult physician and make 50% of what they make. Best wishes to you for whatever you decide.

I was the accountant for a physicians pediatrics group practice in the early 2000s. It must have been an exceptionally well-run practice because all of them were doing quite well financially on an annual basis.

Pediatricians have the same financial and time investments in training but do make considerably less than adult physician counterparts. They may do well compared to 95% of other people, but they absolutely get the short end of the compensation stock compared to physicians as a whole, which I think was the point being made.

They must have been a great outlier practice because they were earning back then about what a post just above said that the average physicians are earning now.

[Young Boglehead]

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Exactly my thought. No mortgage, $1.8M portfolio? I'd be getting close to FIRE at that point.

On the other hand, OP has a NW over 2M. Even if he pays cash for med school and saves nothing, his investments will continue to grow. He could go into a low paid specialty and can still FIRE just with compound interest. There is more to life than money and this has always been his dream.

+1. There is much more to happiness than how rich you can possibly be (especially when you are already rich...many studies have confirmed that, at least beyond a point, additional money does not buy additional happiness, and not everybody believes that choice of profession should only boil down to money. Some people find medicine profoundly interesting, and/or their calling in life. That is true of many other professions as well.

That said, regarding this particular case, read ResearchMed's post above. Given many of the responses, I would guess that many missed that.

The issue here is less that he's choosing a career for passion over money here, and more than he's choosing a career that is going to severely limit the flexibility in his life over at least the next 8-10 years while ALSO being a bad financial decision. Money might not make someone happier, but losing your flexibility and autonomy probably will make someone unhappier.

If he thinks he finds it interesting I suggest that he purchase a subscription to Boards and Beyond and downloads an Anki deck called anking. Itll cost <1k and he can teach himself like how med students do for the first 2 years of med school. Then he can decide if he think learning medicine at the level med students do is actually interesting!

[Young Boglehead]

And OP is already somewhat ruling out PCP and wants to be a specialist. Red flag. As though going into med school wasn't risky enough, now you're going to go while ruling out what MOST doctors match into for something more competitive, probably because its higher paying? How would you feel if after all of this you don't match? This is a very real possibility when going for higher paying specialties. And people don't match all the time, even without any red flags.

[Young Boglehead]

I'm a physician, a pediatric sub-specialist. Growing up, all I wanted to do was to become a physician. It was my dream during my whole childhood.

If you don't take ANY of the rest of my advice and you wind up in medical school, for the love of all that is sacred please at least follow this advice: do NOT go into pediatrics. You will be working until you are 75 years old and have very little savings to retire.

The loans vs pay out of pocket is a bit tough to decide but the loans really add up quickly and that debt gnaws at your heart.

I am late 50's now, hoping to get out as soon as possible. I am glad I went through the process of becoming a physician but I am also glad to be close to getting out of there because it is not even remotely what I thought a career as a physician would be.
I worked for two years after college in a research lab and took grad school courses to enhance admissions chances. Got into my top pick medical school, worked harder for four years than I ever did before, or after in my life, graduated mid-1990s. Let me assure you of a few things so far: No, you definitely will not be able to work at all during medical school; you will need a lot of money for tuition and fees; you will need a lot of money for living expenses during medical school and a minimum of three additional years of residency. That's seven years where your $250K income will not be earned.

You are already 30 which probably feels pretty close to 20 for you, but you are not even there yet for applying to medical school because of the coursework you need to complete before starting medical school. By the time you get done pre-application coursework, medical school, and at least three years of residency you will be about 40. Maybe you are in great shape and have great physical stamina. Life changes for all of us around 40. The energy level starts to drop off, the on-call nights get harder, and you missed out on the financial (and career) freedom of 7-10 years of earnings that would make those long work weeks and longer work nights on call seem OK. Then when you have to keep working through your 50s and 60s because of your lost savings into medical school tuition and supporting your life for those years of training, you are going to be one really bitter, burned out middle aged guy who feels like you made a giant mistake.

Best case scenario is you somehow get to be a cardiac or neurosurgeon, although entering those residencies in your late 30s is going to be a hellish experience, but you get through it somehow and make a million dollars a year until you are 55 and you retire (if you had the discipline to live the whole time like a guy making $250K instead of a million) and then you go find this thread on the Internet and send me a private message telling me what an idiot I was. That's the best case. I guess I would have to quote Clint Eastwood here: How luck do you feel....?

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Let me lastly state for the record that as I said, becoming a physician was my dream when growing up, but if I somehow wound up in your shoes, age 30, your income, no medical career so far, there is no way in any universe or set of circumstances that I'd NOW try to go to medical school. And, like I said, please whatever you do, please do not go into pediatrics. You will work as hard or harder than any adult physician and make 50% of what they make. Best wishes to you for whatever you decide.

I was the accountant for a physicians pediatrics group practice in the early 2000s. It must have been an exceptionally well-run practice because all of them were doing quite well financially on an annual basis.

Pediatricians have the same financial and time investments in training but do make considerably less than adult physician counterparts. They may do well compared to 95% of other people, but they absolutely get the short end of the compensation stock compared to physicians as a whole, which I think was the point being made.

They must have been a great outlier practice because they were earning back then about what a post just above said that the average physicians are earning now.

Another downside of medicine is that compensation can change drastically and there are more headwinds than tailwinds. Medicare cuts their compensation several percent every year - and this doesn't even include inflation. You can do the math

[folkher0]

I'm a physician, a pediatric sub-specialist. Growing up, all I wanted to do was to become a physician. It was my dream during my whole childhood.

If you don't take ANY of the rest of my advice and you wind up in medical school, for the love of all that is sacred please at least follow this advice: do NOT go into pediatrics. You will be working until you are 75 years old and have very little savings to retire.

The loans vs pay out of pocket is a bit tough to decide but the loans really add up quickly and that debt gnaws at your heart.

I am late 50's now, hoping to get out as soon as possible. I am glad I went through the process of becoming a physician but I am also glad to be close to getting out of there because it is not even remotely what I thought a career as a physician would be.
I worked for two years after college in a research lab and took grad school courses to enhance admissions chances. Got into my top pick medical school, worked harder for four years than I ever did before, or after in my life, graduated mid-1990s. Let me assure you of a few things so far: No, you definitely will not be able to work at all during medical school; you will need a lot of money for tuition and fees; you will need a lot of money for living expenses during medical school and a minimum of three additional years of residency. That's seven years where your $250K income will not be earned.

You are already 30 which probably feels pretty close to 20 for you, but you are not even there yet for applying to medical school because of the coursework you need to complete before starting medical school. By the time you get done pre-application coursework, medical school, and at least three years of residency you will be about 40. Maybe you are in great shape and have great physical stamina. Life changes for all of us around 40. The energy level starts to drop off, the on-call nights get harder, and you missed out on the financial (and career) freedom of 7-10 years of earnings that would make those long work weeks and longer work nights on call seem OK. Then when you have to keep working through your 50s and 60s because of your lost savings into medical school tuition and supporting your life for those years of training, you are going to be one really bitter, burned out middle aged guy who feels like you made a giant mistake.

Best case scenario is you somehow get to be a cardiac or neurosurgeon, although entering those residencies in your late 30s is going to be a hellish experience, but you get through it somehow and make a million dollars a year until you are 55 and you retire (if you had the discipline to live the whole time like a guy making $250K instead of a million) and then you go find this thread on the Internet and send me a private message telling me what an idiot I was. That's the best case. I guess I would have to quote Clint Eastwood here: How luck do you feel....?

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Let me lastly state for the record that as I said, becoming a physician was my dream when growing up, but if I somehow wound up in your shoes, age 30, your income, no medical career so far, there is no way in any universe or set of circumstances that I'd NOW try to go to medical school. And, like I said, please whatever you do, please do not go into pediatrics. You will work as hard or harder than any adult physician and make 50% of what they make. Best wishes to you for whatever you decide.

I was the accountant for a physicians pediatrics group practice in the early 2000s. It must have been an exceptionally well-run practice because all of them were doing quite well financially on an annual basis.

Pediatricians have the same financial and time investments in training but do make considerably less than adult physician counterparts. They may do well compared to 95% of other people, but they absolutely get the short end of the compensation stock compared to physicians as a whole, which I think was the point being made.

They must have been a great outlier practice because they were earning back then about what a post just above said that the average physicians are earning now.

Or maybe compensation for many physicians hasn't risen as much in the last 20 years as you would expect.

[cmr79]

I'm a physician, a pediatric sub-specialist. Growing up, all I wanted to do was to become a physician. It was my dream during my whole childhood.

If you don't take ANY of the rest of my advice and you wind up in medical school, for the love of all that is sacred please at least follow this advice: do NOT go into pediatrics. You will be working until you are 75 years old and have very little savings to retire.

The loans vs pay out of pocket is a bit tough to decide but the loans really add up quickly and that debt gnaws at your heart.

I am late 50's now, hoping to get out as soon as possible. I am glad I went through the process of becoming a physician but I am also glad to be close to getting out of there because it is not even remotely what I thought a career as a physician would be.
I worked for two years after college in a research lab and took grad school courses to enhance admissions chances. Got into my top pick medical school, worked harder for four years than I ever did before, or after in my life, graduated mid-1990s. Let me assure you of a few things so far: No, you definitely will not be able to work at all during medical school; you will need a lot of money for tuition and fees; you will need a lot of money for living expenses during medical school and a minimum of three additional years of residency. That's seven years where your $250K income will not be earned.

You are already 30 which probably feels pretty close to 20 for you, but you are not even there yet for applying to medical school because of the coursework you need to complete before starting medical school. By the time you get done pre-application coursework, medical school, and at least three years of residency you will be about 40. Maybe you are in great shape and have great physical stamina. Life changes for all of us around 40. The energy level starts to drop off, the on-call nights get harder, and you missed out on the financial (and career) freedom of 7-10 years of earnings that would make those long work weeks and longer work nights on call seem OK. Then when you have to keep working through your 50s and 60s because of your lost savings into medical school tuition and supporting your life for those years of training, you are going to be one really bitter, burned out middle aged guy who feels like you made a giant mistake.

Best case scenario is you somehow get to be a cardiac or neurosurgeon, although entering those residencies in your late 30s is going to be a hellish experience, but you get through it somehow and make a million dollars a year until you are 55 and you retire (if you had the discipline to live the whole time like a guy making $250K instead of a million) and then you go find this thread on the Internet and send me a private message telling me what an idiot I was. That's the best case. I guess I would have to quote Clint Eastwood here: How luck do you feel....?

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Let me lastly state for the record that as I said, becoming a physician was my dream when growing up, but if I somehow wound up in your shoes, age 30, your income, no medical career so far, there is no way in any universe or set of circumstances that I'd NOW try to go to medical school. And, like I said, please whatever you do, please do not go into pediatrics. You will work as hard or harder than any adult physician and make 50% of what they make. Best wishes to you for whatever you decide.

I was the accountant for a physicians pediatrics group practice in the early 2000s. It must have been an exceptionally well-run practice because all of them were doing quite well financially on an annual basis.

Pediatricians have the same financial and time investments in training but do make considerably less than adult physician counterparts. They may do well compared to 95% of other people, but they absolutely get the short end of the compensation stock compared to physicians as a whole, which I think was the point being made.

They must have been a great outlier practice because they were earning back then about what a post just above said that the average physicians are earning now.

Yes, probably an outlier practice then. One of the main reasons for pediatricians making much less than adult clinicians is that kids are disproportionately likely to be on Medicaid, which reimburses terribly. Many adult clinicians have an option to not take Medicaid, but that really isn't an option for most pediatricians unless they are in a very affluent area where most kids are on parents' private insurance plans. My guess is that this was the situation with the practice you were involved with, though other factors like ownership rather than being an employee (much less likely for OP to be an owner 10+ years from now vs 20+ years ago, unless things in healthcare change dramatically) and ownership of practice-related real estate and equipment might swing income dramatically higher too. Though all of these things are still more likely to benefit adult subspecialist, especially those who perform procedures or read imaging studies like say GI or cardiology.

[austin757]

I am definitely going through a mid life crisis if some sort, that is true. I feel like I have reached the peak of my current career as an airline pilot. I have low expenses and hobbies that are mostly free.

I can use my savings and still have long enough to catch up if I don’t want to retire early.

Do you have some sort of compelling backstory, like you were part of a medical emergency during a flight or have an interest in combining your expertise into an aerospace medicine/flight surgeon career?

I knew several nontraditional/older students in medical school, and it is definitely a tougher path to travel for reasons that have been well established above. If you are truly dedicated to this, it needs to be because you view this as a calling and something you NEED to do, not because it is a financially good or bad idea (financially it almost certainly won't pencil out over continuing your current career, but it sounds like you don't think what you are currently doing is sustainable anyway).

If so, you need to come up with a way to convince at least one med school admissions committee of both your conviction and your ability. You will absolutely be penalized/scrutinized for your age and nontraditional path, even if no school would admit to this, as others have mentioned. You will need excellent grades on recent premed course requirements and above average MCAT scores compared to the places you apply. You will probably need to apply to 20+ schools, including most/all in the NE/Mid-Atlantic region if you have a desire/family reasons to try to remain in that area.

If you are seeking greater meaning in your work, have you considered switching from being an airline pilot to an area of aviation you might find more meaningful, perhaps something medically related like being a medical air transport pilot? Your background may be helpful in a management position in a medical transport service, whereas it will mean very little to being a subspecialist physician outside of the niche field of aerospace medicine.

If you just feel very deeply that you want to be in a purely clinical role and make a complete break from your aviation past, you should also consider PA programs. The training pathway is much shorter and the programs are generally much more accepting of nontraditional applicants. If you don't intend to work in a clinical role beyond normal retirement ages or would want to work part time after your early to mid 50s, the financial and time penalties of medical school/residency/fellowship probably won't have time to pay off vs becoming a PA and working in the exact same field in a supervised role.

I have been involved in a handful of medical emergencies in flight. I had a great conversation with a physician that helped on one of the flights. I do not have experience in healthcare other than those experiences. My father had some major issues with his heart and I really became intrigued in Cardiology and the events that went on with that. This is one of the specialities I was interested in. I have not done any volunteering or shadowing yet. The postbac program is something I will need as well. My GPA was not the greatest in college.

I would rather go for MD instead of PA. I tend to go all the way with things and would rather stay in my current role than settle for PA school, not that there’s anything wrong with that. I am tied down a bit to the region I am in for family reasons.

[austin757]

Is this a joke? You are a 30 y/o pilot making $250k. A year or two ago it was in the news that wide body top pay was near $500k….Waaaaay cooler profession than a healthcare provider IMO. I enjoy helping people but think how things would/could be if I did what I really wanted instead of dental school….fly professionally. I remember when I was in undergrad there was an airline pilot in one of my biology classes going back to be a nurse..I couldn’t help but think how baffling that was to me.

For a long time, pilot pay was abysmal. Terrible working conditions and furloughs, bankruptcies, etc. Maybe the guy in your class had to get another job to pay the bills. Thankfully these conditions have improved and I am comfortable financially, but they could also go downhill again. For me, I enjoy the flying, but am always wanting to try something new.

[yankees60]

I'm a physician, a pediatric sub-specialist. Growing up, all I wanted to do was to become a physician. It was my dream during my whole childhood.

If you don't take ANY of the rest of my advice and you wind up in medical school, for the love of all that is sacred please at least follow this advice: do NOT go into pediatrics. You will be working until you are 75 years old and have very little savings to retire.

The loans vs pay out of pocket is a bit tough to decide but the loans really add up quickly and that debt gnaws at your heart.

I am late 50's now, hoping to get out as soon as possible. I am glad I went through the process of becoming a physician but I am also glad to be close to getting out of there because it is not even remotely what I thought a career as a physician would be.
I worked for two years after college in a research lab and took grad school courses to enhance admissions chances. Got into my top pick medical school, worked harder for four years than I ever did before, or after in my life, graduated mid-1990s. Let me assure you of a few things so far: No, you definitely will not be able to work at all during medical school; you will need a lot of money for tuition and fees; you will need a lot of money for living expenses during medical school and a minimum of three additional years of residency. That's seven years where your $250K income will not be earned.

You are already 30 which probably feels pretty close to 20 for you, but you are not even there yet for applying to medical school because of the coursework you need to complete before starting medical school. By the time you get done pre-application coursework, medical school, and at least three years of residency you will be about 40. Maybe you are in great shape and have great physical stamina. Life changes for all of us around 40. The energy level starts to drop off, the on-call nights get harder, and you missed out on the financial (and career) freedom of 7-10 years of earnings that would make those long work weeks and longer work nights on call seem OK. Then when you have to keep working through your 50s and 60s because of your lost savings into medical school tuition and supporting your life for those years of training, you are going to be one really bitter, burned out middle aged guy who feels like you made a giant mistake.

Best case scenario is you somehow get to be a cardiac or neurosurgeon, although entering those residencies in your late 30s is going to be a hellish experience, but you get through it somehow and make a million dollars a year until you are 55 and you retire (if you had the discipline to live the whole time like a guy making $250K instead of a million) and then you go find this thread on the Internet and send me a private message telling me what an idiot I was. That's the best case. I guess I would have to quote Clint Eastwood here: How luck do you feel....?

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Let me lastly state for the record that as I said, becoming a physician was my dream when growing up, but if I somehow wound up in your shoes, age 30, your income, no medical career so far, there is no way in any universe or set of circumstances that I'd NOW try to go to medical school. And, like I said, please whatever you do, please do not go into pediatrics. You will work as hard or harder than any adult physician and make 50% of what they make. Best wishes to you for whatever you decide.

I was the accountant for a physicians pediatrics group practice in the early 2000s. It must have been an exceptionally well-run practice because all of them were doing quite well financially on an annual basis.

Pediatricians have the same financial and time investments in training but do make considerably less than adult physician counterparts. They may do well compared to 95% of other people, but they absolutely get the short end of the compensation stock compared to physicians as a whole, which I think was the point being made.

They must have been a great outlier practice because they were earning back then about what a post just above said that the average physicians are earning now.

Another downside of medicine is that compensation can change drastically and there are more headwinds than tailwinds. Medicare cuts their compensation several percent every year - and this doesn't even include inflation. You can do the math

Pediatricians do not deal with Medicare?

[yankees60]

I'm a physician, a pediatric sub-specialist. Growing up, all I wanted to do was to become a physician. It was my dream during my whole childhood.

If you don't take ANY of the rest of my advice and you wind up in medical school, for the love of all that is sacred please at least follow this advice: do NOT go into pediatrics. You will be working until you are 75 years old and have very little savings to retire.

The loans vs pay out of pocket is a bit tough to decide but the loans really add up quickly and that debt gnaws at your heart.

I am late 50's now, hoping to get out as soon as possible. I am glad I went through the process of becoming a physician but I am also glad to be close to getting out of there because it is not even remotely what I thought a career as a physician would be.
I worked for two years after college in a research lab and took grad school courses to enhance admissions chances. Got into my top pick medical school, worked harder for four years than I ever did before, or after in my life, graduated mid-1990s. Let me assure you of a few things so far: No, you definitely will not be able to work at all during medical school; you will need a lot of money for tuition and fees; you will need a lot of money for living expenses during medical school and a minimum of three additional years of residency. That's seven years where your $250K income will not be earned.

You are already 30 which probably feels pretty close to 20 for you, but you are not even there yet for applying to medical school because of the coursework you need to complete before starting medical school. By the time you get done pre-application coursework, medical school, and at least three years of residency you will be about 40. Maybe you are in great shape and have great physical stamina. Life changes for all of us around 40. The energy level starts to drop off, the on-call nights get harder, and you missed out on the financial (and career) freedom of 7-10 years of earnings that would make those long work weeks and longer work nights on call seem OK. Then when you have to keep working through your 50s and 60s because of your lost savings into medical school tuition and supporting your life for those years of training, you are going to be one really bitter, burned out middle aged guy who feels like you made a giant mistake.

Best case scenario is you somehow get to be a cardiac or neurosurgeon, although entering those residencies in your late 30s is going to be a hellish experience, but you get through it somehow and make a million dollars a year until you are 55 and you retire (if you had the discipline to live the whole time like a guy making $250K instead of a million) and then you go find this thread on the Internet and send me a private message telling me what an idiot I was. That's the best case. I guess I would have to quote Clint Eastwood here: How luck do you feel....?

Making $250K a year now, with your savings, you can work for 10-20 more years and do whatever you want in life, totally free and independent. Why blow that?

Let me lastly state for the record that as I said, becoming a physician was my dream when growing up, but if I somehow wound up in your shoes, age 30, your income, no medical career so far, there is no way in any universe or set of circumstances that I'd NOW try to go to medical school. And, like I said, please whatever you do, please do not go into pediatrics. You will work as hard or harder than any adult physician and make 50% of what they make. Best wishes to you for whatever you decide.

I was the accountant for a physicians pediatrics group practice in the early 2000s. It must have been an exceptionally well-run practice because all of them were doing quite well financially on an annual basis.

Pediatricians have the same financial and time investments in training but do make considerably less than adult physician counterparts. They may do well compared to 95% of other people, but they absolutely get the short end of the compensation stock compared to physicians as a whole, which I think was the point being made.

They must have been a great outlier practice because they were earning back then about what a post just above said that the average physicians are earning now.

Yes, probably an outlier practice then. One of the main reasons for pediatricians making much less than adult clinicians is that kids are disproportionately likely to be on Medicaid, which reimburses terribly. Many adult clinicians have an option to not take Medicaid, but that really isn't an option for most pediatricians unless they are in a very affluent area where most kids are on parents' private insurance plans. My guess is that this was the situation with the practice you were involved with, though other factors like ownership rather than being an employee (much less likely for OP to be an owner 10+ years from now vs 20+ years ago, unless things in healthcare change dramatically) and ownership of practice-related real estate and equipment might swing income dramatically higher too. Though all of these things are still more likely to benefit adult subspecialist, especially those who perform procedures or read imaging studies like say GI or cardiology.

This was in a rural area, semi-affluent, all doctors were partners. Part of my job was determining each's share of profits according to the percentage of revenue each generated.