US Bank 4% Smartly Visa Credit Card

[Bosro]

Looks like BOA Preferred Rewards will have some competition
https://www.usbank.com/credit-cards/ban ... -card.html

100k in assets held at US Bank earns 4% back on purchases.

[nalor511]

The required Smartly savings account earns 4.1% currently when you can get 5.15%+ elsewhere. Not worth it. To lose $1k+in savings interest to make an extra 2% on purchases, unless you spend $50k+ per year in categories other than fuel/grocery (which already get 3/4.4% from Amex BCP after fees)

Edit: I see the savings account is only required for bonus deposit purposes, you can hold the assets in a better account, so ignore the math above I guess

[Harmanic]

Have "Combined Balances" with U.S. Bank in open consumer checking account(s), money market savings account(s), savings account(s), CDs and/or IRAs, U.S. Bancorp Investments and personal trust account(s) (business accounts, commercial accounts, and the Trustee only (IFI) client relationship do not qualify):
Between $5,000 - $49,999.99, to earn a total of 2.5 Points per $1 (a base of 2 Points plus the Smartly Earning Bonus of 0.5 Points),
Between $50,000 - $99,999.99, to earn a total of 3 Points per $1 (a base of 2 Points plus the Smartly Earning Bonus of 1 Point), or
$100,000 or more to earn a total of 4 Points per $1 (a base of 2 Points plus the Smartly Earning Bonus of 2 Points).

There are also $50 annual account fees and trading fees for the brokerage account if your balance is less than $250,000.

It might be good for someone who already holds a lot of cash and spends a lot on their credit card. I do neither.

[Bosro]

you can hold 100k VTI. Just like I do for preferred rewards at BOA currently.
Fee Schedule for a brokerage account is not great though.
https://www.usbank.com/investing/online ... -fees.html

[Harmanic]

you can hold 100k VTI. Just like I do for preferred rewards at BOA currently.
Fee Schedule for a brokerage account is not great though.
https://www.usbank.com/investing/online ... -fees.html

It might still work for the buy and hold investor who does a lot of credit card spending though. Trading fees discourage frequent trading, which can actually save you money in the long run.

[beardsicles]

you can hold 100k VTI. Just like I do for preferred rewards at BOA currently.
Fee Schedule for a brokerage account is not great though.
https://www.usbank.com/investing/online ... -fees.html

100 free online stock or ETF trades per year with a U.S. Bancorp Investments Self-Directed Brokerage Account enrolled in paperless document delivery and a U.S. Bank SmartlyTM Checking account offered by our affiliate U.S. Bank.

Seems fine for most Bogleheads. The account fee is annoying, but just mentally lump it into the credit card annual fee and then determine if it's worth it for you.

[mhc]

Looks like one could hold $250k in taxable account and receive 100 free trades per year and have no fees.

A 4% cash back on everything CC sounds pretty good to me. This would be enough to overcome fees for using a credit card. I frequently see fees of close to 3% for CC.

[816_Feet]

BOA Unlimited Cash Rewards is 2.625% on all spending with $100k held there, so this is an extra 1.375%. To pay for the $50 annual fee you'd have to spend $3,636 ($50/0.01375).

If I'm reading the fees correctly it looks like the first hundred trades are free if you have both a checking and brokerage account.

[Leesbro63]

Will they pay 4% on Federal income tax payments charged to their credit card?

[Gryphon]

4% back on all purchases with no spending cap seems a little bit too good to be true. I wouldn't be surprised if the bonus points for funds on deposit wind up being a teaser rate that gets scaled back after the launch.

[Leesbro63]

4% back on all purchases with no spending cap seems a little bit too good to be true. I wouldn't be surprised if the bonus points for funds on deposit wind up being a teaser rate that gets scaled back after the launch.

Agreed. I worry (not much, but at least think about it) that BofA will scale back 2.625%.

[beardsicles]

4% back on all purchases with no spending cap seems a little bit too good to be true. I wouldn't be surprised if the bonus points for funds on deposit wind up being a teaser rate that gets scaled back after the launch.

US Bank has another card that can net you 4.5% relatively easily and it hasn’t been touched in years.

[nalor511]

4% back on all purchases with no spending cap seems a little bit too good to be true. I wouldn't be surprised if the bonus points for funds on deposit wind up being a teaser rate that gets scaled back after the launch.

Most americans aren't even going to be able to reach the 2.5% cb with the 5k balance tier. 3%cb/$50k bal would be unimaginable for most of the people I know IRL. So 4% cb/$100k bal is not going to be very utilized, IMO, and makes for a good advertisement for a not-particularly-popular bank

[Gryphon]

4% back on all purchases with no spending cap seems a little bit too good to be true. I wouldn't be surprised if the bonus points for funds on deposit wind up being a teaser rate that gets scaled back after the launch.

US Bank has another card that can net you 4.5% relatively easily and it hasn’t been touched in years.

Which card is that? I see they have several cards that go 4% or higher, but they're either restricted to specific spending categories or they have spending caps.

[Harmanic]

I didn't see any disclosures about foreign transaction fees, subs, etc. Maybe when it gets closer to launch.

[beardsicles]

4% back on all purchases with no spending cap seems a little bit too good to be true. I wouldn't be surprised if the bonus points for funds on deposit wind up being a teaser rate that gets scaled back after the launch.

US Bank has another card that can net you 4.5% relatively easily and it hasn’t been touched in years.

Which card is that? I see they have several cards that go 4% or higher, but they're either restricted to specific spending categories or they have spending caps.

Altitude Reserve gets you 3 points per dollar spent using mobile wallet and you can redeem at 1.5 cents per point. Mobile wallet seems restrictive until realize almost all in-person transactions can be made with mobile wallet and now most online merchants accept some form of mobile wallet. The only places you can’t consistently earn 4.5% are sit-down restaurants in the US and on Amazon.

[Leesbro63]

4% back on all purchases with no spending cap seems a little bit too good to be true. I wouldn't be surprised if the bonus points for funds on deposit wind up being a teaser rate that gets scaled back after the launch.

US Bank has another card that can net you 4.5% relatively easily and it hasn’t been touched in years.

Which card is that? I see they have several cards that go 4% or higher, but they're either restricted to specific spending categories or they have spending caps.

Altitude Reserve gets you 3 points per dollar spent using mobile wallet and you can redeem at 1.5 cents per point. Mobile wallet seems restrictive until realize almost all in-person transactions can be made with mobile wallet and now most online merchants accept some form of mobile wallet. The only places you can’t consistently earn 4.5% are sit-down restaurants in the US and on Amazon.

Redeem for what? Dollars, or some travel portal or other marked up sales portal?

[Watts]

4% back on all purchases with no spending cap seems a little bit too good to be true. I wouldn't be surprised if the bonus points for funds on deposit wind up being a teaser rate that gets scaled back after the launch.

US Bank has another card that can net you 4.5% relatively easily and it hasn’t been touched in years.

Which card is that? I see they have several cards that go 4% or higher, but they're either restricted to specific spending categories or they have spending caps.

Altitude Reserve gets you 3 points per dollar spent using mobile wallet and you can redeem at 1.5 cents per point. Mobile wallet seems restrictive until realize almost all in-person transactions can be made with mobile wallet and now most online merchants accept some form of mobile wallet. The only places you can’t consistently earn 4.5% are sit-down restaurants in the US and on Amazon.

Redeem for what? Dollars, or some travel portal or other marked up sales portal?

It's a really nice system. You actually can shop for travel anywhere. Once the travel purchase posts, you can then negate the purchase with your points.

[HooCares]

US Bank has another card that can net you 4.5% relatively easily and it hasn’t been touched in years.

Which card is that? I see they have several cards that go 4% or higher, but they're either restricted to specific spending categories or they have spending caps.

Altitude Reserve gets you 3 points per dollar spent using mobile wallet and you can redeem at 1.5 cents per point. Mobile wallet seems restrictive until realize almost all in-person transactions can be made with mobile wallet and now most online merchants accept some form of mobile wallet. The only places you can’t consistently earn 4.5% are sit-down restaurants in the US and on Amazon.

Redeem for what? Dollars, or some travel portal or other marked up sales portal?

It's a really nice system. You actually can shop for travel anywhere. Once the travel purchase posts, you can then negate the purchase with your points.

And if one’s travel plans change and you have to cancel your previously redeemed travel purchase…

[whodidntante]

US Bank is sensitive to manufactured spending, y'all.

[beardsicles]

US Bank has another card that can net you 4.5% relatively easily and it hasn’t been touched in years.

Which card is that? I see they have several cards that go 4% or higher, but they're either restricted to specific spending categories or they have spending caps.

Altitude Reserve gets you 3 points per dollar spent using mobile wallet and you can redeem at 1.5 cents per point. Mobile wallet seems restrictive until realize almost all in-person transactions can be made with mobile wallet and now most online merchants accept some form of mobile wallet. The only places you can’t consistently earn 4.5% are sit-down restaurants in the US and on Amazon.

Redeem for what? Dollars, or some travel portal or other marked up sales portal?

It's a really nice system. You actually can shop for travel anywhere. Once the travel purchase posts, you can then negate the purchase with your points.

Yep, exactly. Book travel with any US-based merchant and then redeem the points against the transaction.
My work lets me book my work travel with my personal card. Effectively 4.5% cash back on $10k tickets doesn’t suck.

[Scotttheking]

Looks like one could hold $250k in taxable account and receive 100 free trades per year and have no fees.

A 4% cash back on everything CC sounds pretty good to me. This would be enough to overcome fees for using a credit card. I frequently see fees of close to 3% for CC.

Hmm. This is worth keeping an eye on!

[Lastrun]

I didn't see any disclosures about foreign transaction fees, subs, etc. Maybe when it gets closer to launch.

This, in addition to a FTF, an annual fee is apparently up in the air at this point based on some of the Youtubers.

So we’ll wait and see.

I can make to $250K, but it will be close for me, as I have 4% already (gas, groceries and gastronomy) with the Verizon card, with $10 per month line credit, and BofA PRE, with 2.625% and 3.5% on travel.

A FTF would be a deal killer.

A $95 annual fee would be fairly easy to overcome.

But I would have to get the pencil and green eyeshades out.

[3000]

It sounds like an interesting card. The fee for my Smartly Checking account is covered by my Cash+ credit card and it looks like the fee for the Smartly Savings account is covered by having the Smartly Checking account.

So unless there is an annual fee for the credit card the only potential fee is $50 a year on an IRA balance under $250k which could be offset by a credit card sign up bonus (if it has one) or a new account bonus.

[anon_investor]

Does US Bank let folks open bank accounts in states where they don't have branches?

[cowbman]

Yes they do

[cowbman]

Obviously targeting BoA, RH and others. I don't know the sustainably though. I suspect within a year they will cap 4%.

[FrugalProfessor]

It's a really nice system. You actually can shop for travel anywhere. Once the travel purchase posts, you can then negate the purchase with your points.

And if one’s travel plans change and you have to cancel your previously redeemed travel purchase…

I'm a month into the USBAR system and am loving it so far. I have unredeemed points in my account that I'll surely use organically in the several months from now or I am considering making some highly speculative refundable travel plans now and inevitably changing my mind. What do you USBAR veterans do when you have points accrued but no immediate travel plans in the coming several months?

For those veterans in the USBAR system, do you consider this new 4% card to be a complement or a substitute card? If there is no AF on this new card (complete speculation, of course), the break-even to justify the net $75AF for the USBAR would be computed as $75/(0.045-0.04)=$15k/year.

My biggest gripe with the USBAR is the gimmick that its true power is unlocked with tap-to-pay (and the small nuisance of the inability to redeem points immediately if no travel plans are imminent). While I'm planning on utilizing it to pay for big purchases like property tax, college tuition, car registration fees, it would be much easier to perform those transactions online without having to show up in person. It's easy for me to justify the hassle of showing up when I'm earning a 4.5%-2.625%=1.875% spread relative to the BoA PR card, but I think it is much harder to justify the hassle when earning a 4.5%-4%=0.5% spread on those transactions relative to this new 4% card.

I don't think I'd miss the perks of the USBAR too much of primary rental car insurance, 8 priority pass visits, and tsa precheck/global entry....

Thinking out loud, I could easily see my future setup as 8 x BoA 5.25% cash rewards cards + 1 x US Bank 4% card as the catch-all "other." By the way, I've recently started to use my BoA cards in my digital wallet and it's great because I don't have to lug around a separate card for gas/restaurants/travel/etc.

[HooCares]

It's a really nice system. You actually can shop for travel anywhere. Once the travel purchase posts, you can then negate the purchase with your points.

And if one’s travel plans change and you have to cancel your previously redeemed travel purchase…

I'm a month into the USBAR system and am loving it so far. I have unredeemed points in my account that I'll surely use organically in the several months from now or I am considering making some highly speculative refundable travel plans now and inevitably changing my mind. What do you USBAR veterans do when you have points accrued but no immediate travel plans in the coming several months?

For those veterans in the USBAR system, do you consider this new 4% card to be a complement or a substitute card? If there is no AF on this new card (complete speculation, of course), the break-even to justify the net $75AF for the USBAR would be computed as $75/(0.045-0.04)=$15k/year.

My biggest gripe with the USBAR is the gimmick that its true power is unlocked with tap-to-pay (and the small nuisance of the inability to redeem points immediately if no travel plans are imminent). While I'm planning on utilizing it to pay for big purchases like property tax, college tuition, car registration fees, it would be much easier to perform those transactions online without having to show up in person. It's easy for me to justify the hassle of showing up when I'm earning a 4.5%-2.625%=1.875% spread relative to the BoA PR card, but I think it is much harder to justify the hassle when earning a 4.5%-4%=0.5% spread on those transactions relative to this new 4% card.

I don't think I'd miss the perks of the USBAR too much of primary rental car insurance, 8 priority pass visits, and tsa precheck/global entry....

Thinking out loud, I could easily see my future setup as 8 x BoA 5.25% cash rewards cards + 1 x US Bank 4% card as the catch-all "other." That would be an incredible setup. By the way, I've recently started to use my BoA cards in my digital wallet and it's great because you don't have to lug around a new card for gas/restaurants/travel/etc.

When points accrue and I have no travel plans I make some refundable travel plans that happen to cost just about the same that my points balance is and redeem my points. And then I decide I don't want those travel plans anymore and cancel for refund.

I call every year and US Bank is pretty good at throwing me 5000 points not to cancel so the USBAR is essentially free.

We have 2 SYW Mastercards so that is what the majority of our spend goes on. I use both of those cards and my wife uses the USBAR that's saved in her phone since she's not into playing games.

I assume at some point I'll reach a breaking point with credit card games, but I haven't yet in the last 15 years. I don't particularly care about everyday rewards because all my spend earns much more than 4%. It's all about signup bonuses or special offers for me -- and much more on the special offers these days. This year I'll net roughly 30% cash back on my credit card spend.

[FrugalProfessor]

It's a really nice system. You actually can shop for travel anywhere. Once the travel purchase posts, you can then negate the purchase with your points.

And if one’s travel plans change and you have to cancel your previously redeemed travel purchase…

I'm a month into the USBAR system and am loving it so far. I have unredeemed points in my account that I'll surely use organically in the several months from now or I am considering making some highly speculative refundable travel plans now and inevitably changing my mind. What do you USBAR veterans do when you have points accrued but no immediate travel plans in the coming several months?

For those veterans in the USBAR system, do you consider this new 4% card to be a complement or a substitute card? If there is no AF on this new card (complete speculation, of course), the break-even to justify the net $75AF for the USBAR would be computed as $75/(0.045-0.04)=$15k/year.

My biggest gripe with the USBAR is the gimmick that its true power is unlocked with tap-to-pay (and the small nuisance of the inability to redeem points immediately if no travel plans are imminent). While I'm planning on utilizing it to pay for big purchases like property tax, college tuition, car registration fees, it would be much easier to perform those transactions online without having to show up in person. It's easy for me to justify the hassle of showing up when I'm earning a 4.5%-2.625%=1.875% spread relative to the BoA PR card, but I think it is much harder to justify the hassle when earning a 4.5%-4%=0.5% spread on those transactions relative to this new 4% card.

I don't think I'd miss the perks of the USBAR too much of primary rental car insurance, 8 priority pass visits, and tsa precheck/global entry....

Thinking out loud, I could easily see my future setup as 8 x BoA 5.25% cash rewards cards + 1 x US Bank 4% card as the catch-all "other." That would be an incredible setup. By the way, I've recently started to use my BoA cards in my digital wallet and it's great because you don't have to lug around a new card for gas/restaurants/travel/etc.

When points accrue and I have no travel plans I make some refundable travel plans that happen to cost just about the same that my points balance is and redeem my points. And then I decide I don't want those travel plans anymore and cancel for refund.

I call every year and US Bank is pretty good at throwing me 5000 points not to cancel so the USBAR is essentially free.

We have 2 SYW Mastercards so that is what the majority of our spend goes on. I use both of those cards and my wife uses the USBAR that's saved in her phone since she's not into playing games.

I assume at some point I'll reach a breaking point with credit card games, but I haven't yet in the last 15 years. I don't particularly care about everyday rewards because all my spend earns much more than 4%. It's all about signup bonuses or special offers for me -- and much more on the special offers these days. This year I'll net roughly 30% cash back on my credit card spend.

Thanks for the feedback! I think I'll book some refundable travel soon because organic travel is still several months away.

I recently picked up my first SYW Mastercard thanks to this forum. I can't say it has won me over yet (it's so weird...like the SOS help I've fallen and I can't get up device advertisement on the last page of my credit card statement), but I am starting to get those random offers and can see how if you stick to those that you can easily net 10% cash back.

Can you elaborate on why you have 2x SYW cards? Is it to double the space of your effective offers? Or are there other caps that you are circumventing?

[HooCares]

Thanks for the feedback! I think I'll book some refundable travel soon because organic travel is still several months away.

I recently picked up my first SYW Mastercard thanks to this forum. I can't say it has won me over yet (it's so weird...like the SOS help I've fallen and I can't get up device advertisement on the last page of my credit card statement), but I am starting to get those random offers and can see how if you stick to those that you can easily net 10% cash back.

Can you elaborate on why you have 2x SYW cards? Is it to double the space of your effective offers? Or are there other caps that you are circumventing?

Double the cashback. For example, this month we should receive:

$200 x2 GGR
$100 x2 Travel/Entertainment
250k points x2 online spend ($500)
$100 P1 purchases over $375
$50 P2 6x $50 purchases

Total: $1250 + whatever points I earn from spend.

[3000]

Perhaps by October 7th there will be more information about the US Bank Smartly Visa. From my US Bank Smartly Checking account statement:

Beginning October 7, 2024, you can review the full revised disclosure at usbank.com/CPI-upcoming-version, by calling 24-Hour Banking at 800-USBANKS (872-2657) or by visiting your local U.S. Bank branch. We accept relay calls.
Here's what you should know:
· Adding two additional ways to waive the Monthly Maintenance Fee for the U.S. Bank Smartly® Savings account: o Presence of a U.S. Bank SmartlyTM Visa Signature® Card, or
o Account holder(s) age 17 or younger
· The Monthly Maintenance Fee will be waived on all U.S. Bank Smartly® Savings accounts with the presence of a U.S. Bank Smartly® Checking or Safe Debit account.
· The U.S. Bank SmartlyTM Visa Signature® Card will be added as an option to qualify for the U.S. Bank Smartly® Savings Interest Rate Bump.
· Clarification is being added to the combined qualifying balances for the Bank Smartly® Savings Interest Rate Bump.
· The Standard Savings account will no longer be available for new accounts or upgrades in the future.
· Under U.S. Bank Smart Rewards® Other Product Benefits, the following benefits will be updated:
o The Monthly Maintenance Fee will be waived on existing Standard Savings accounts
o The Standard Savings Interest Rate Lift will only apply to existing Standard Savings accounts

[cowbman]

The big advantage of this card over the Altitude Reserve is the ability to use for large ticket items such as, medical, insurance, or taxes.

[SnowBog]

I had posted the below in a different thread, figured I'd quote it here...

FWIW, my initial estimate is this would be a positive $1,000 - $2,000+ a year with our spending, cost avoidance, etc.

Well this would be a gamechanger:

https://www.usbank.com/credit-cards/ban ... OTHI_72833

Couple of other issues:

Brokerage has a $50 annual fee apparently if under $250K, so that will need to be factored in.

100 free trades then $4.95 a trade after that, probably not an issue for most.

Is there a FTF on this card? Can’t tell. That would be a killer for me.

Domestic ATM reimbursement? Not a big deal, but…..

Interested though.

Also it looked like they had a selection of free to trade mutual funds, but not sure which fund companies.

If a 4% card had a $50 annual fee, I'd pay it, so broker account fee not really an obstacle. However, there is no clear statement that the Visa card will not also have an annual fee.

Both of their other cashback cards have 3% FTF.

No ATM reimbursement, but US Bank has ATMs at every 7-11.

FWIW it looks like ATM reimbursements are part of their "Smart Rewards" tiers, initially 4 per period (@ Primary) and up to unlimited (@ Premium - which requires $100k+ balance @ US Bank/brokerage). https://alliance.usbank.com/en-us/state ... wards.html

Another potentially interesting benefit - at least for me - is free access to Greenlight for debit cards for kids. This was something I had setup a while back, and had kept as it gave me access to Greenlights [up-to] 3% cashback family card. With their credit card ending, I was thinking of stopping my subscription (can get a kid's debit card from other places for free). But if its "free" as part of a US Bank account - and that US Bank account ends up being needed (along with > $100k across US Bank) to get US Bank's 4% credit card - that's a "win/win" for me...

Compared to my prior setup, the US Bank 4% card [when released, and I meet the 4% tier requirements] would result in:

• + 1.375% extra cashback on everyday purchases (no special categories/cards), from my 2.625% BoA Unlimited Card
• Save $60/year on Greenlight service (included with US Bank) - "free" debit cards for kids (when primary funding source is US Bank)
• Save $95/year fee on Savor - as we'd get 4% on all purchases - including dining
• [Related to above/Savor] Get + 1% - 3% extra cash back on non-dining purchases made on Savor
• Consolidate down to 1 primary credit card (which easily fits in my phone case), removing/replacing cards such as:
  • Bank of America: Unlimited Cashback [w/ Platinum]: 2.625% (best "unlimited" card I have right now, and no need to maintain BoA relationship/honor tier - can move those assets to US Bank for a better credit card)
  • Bank of America: Customized Cashback [w/ Platinum]: 5% on selected category (we don't utilize this as we probably could/should - and for unlimited cash back on all categories [no mystery as to where something gets coded] for 4% [vs 5%] - we can live without...)
  • Capital One: Savor: 4% on dining @ $95/fee
  • Capital One: Walmart: 5% - as their Walmart/5% cashback is ending anyway
  • Greenlight: Family Card: 3% - which has ended anyway...
• [up-to] $450 sign-up bonus on their Smartly Checking account, if done before 9/26: https://bankbonus.com/promotions/us-ban ... nus-offer/

I've already registered on the waitlist and created my "checking" account. I'm holding off on transferring assets to reach their "Premium" tier (for the 4% rate) until they either offer a transfer bonus - or we get access to their credit card where the tier matters.

But so far, really like the idea of a simple, single, 4% unlimited cash back card - with no categories/hoops to manage monthly. (Yes, definitely some setup hoops to create all the accounts, get signup bonus, avoid monthly feeds. But not something I need to manage long-term - mostly one-time setup...) FWIW I don't plan on "moving" any of my banking to US Bank with this... I'll treat it much like the BoA/Merrill setup - do the minimum needed to get the additional cash back - and leave the rest of my banking/setup in place with other institutions.

[TheRoundHeadedKid]

++++1

[Lastrun]

It looks like this is better than the Bank of America Unlimited Cash Rewards Visa (with Platinum Honors Tier). 4% vs 2.625%. ......

An issue still open is whether the card will have a foreign transaction fee. While I personally doubt it, other posters on other forums have also questioned whether there will be a cap on the 2% boost.

So BofA is $95 fee for Premium Rewards card 2.625%/3.5%
US Bank would be $50 account fee (assets under $250K) and 4%.

So very possibly much better, but for me personally, a FTF would be a killer.

[Gadget]

It looks like this is better than the Bank of America Unlimited Cash Rewards Visa (with Platinum Honors Tier). 4% vs 2.625%. ......

An issue still open is whether the card will have a foreign transaction fee. While I personally doubt it, other posters on other forums have also questioned whether there will be a cap on the 2% boost.

So BofA is $95 fee for Premium Rewards card 2.625%/3.5%
US Bank would be $50 account fee (assets under $250K) and 4%.

So very possibly much better, but for me personally, a FTF would be a killer.

If this card doesn't have any gotchas, it doesn't matter if it has a FTF for most Bogleheads I'd wager. Especially if you can pay taxes on it. You can always use a different card with no FTF. Like the Chase Amazon Visa that many have for Amazon purchases. Even if we're all dumping our BOA Premium rewards.

[SnowBog]

It looks like this is better than the Bank of America Unlimited Cash Rewards Visa (with Platinum Honors Tier). 4% vs 2.625%. It has been reported it does not have an annual fee. I am glad I didn't apply for the BofA UCR when I got a preapproved letter for it in the mail a few months ago. I've just signed up on the US Bank waiting list. I should get an email as soon as the credit card is available.

FWIW while it seems like there is no annual fee on the card, there could be other costs...

My understanding is to avoid those costs you'll end up needing:

• Smartly Savings Account
• Smartly Checking Account
• Assuming you don't intend on keeping $100,000 in Savings/Checking (at competitive, but lower rates than you can find elsewhere), Brokerage account with > $250k to avoid $50/year brokerage fee

But even if you can't get over the $250k threshold, assuming you spend at least $3,750/year on credit cards, you'd still come out ahead after the $50/year brokerage fee.

And if you can clear the $250k threshold, all the better for you.

[Lastrun]

It looks like this is better than the Bank of America Unlimited Cash Rewards Visa (with Platinum Honors Tier). 4% vs 2.625%. ......

An issue still open is whether the card will have a foreign transaction fee. While I personally doubt it, other posters on other forums have also questioned whether there will be a cap on the 2% boost.

So BofA is $95 fee for Premium Rewards card 2.625%/3.5%
US Bank would be $50 account fee (assets under $250K) and 4%.

So very possibly much better, but for me personally, a FTF would be a killer.

If this card doesn't have any gotchas, it doesn't matter if it has a FTF for most Bogleheads I'd wager. Especially if you can pay taxes on it. You can always use a different card with no FTF. Like the Chase Amazon Visa that many have for Amazon purchases. Even if we're all dumping our BOA Premium rewards.

You could be right, or you could be wrong and I base the latter on the agonizing number of posts about foreign ATM reimbursements on this forum. If I worry about a $5 foreign ATM fee would I not be worried about a 3% FTF (note that this is the fee US Bank charges on their 2 cash back non-travel cards).

But agree, just use a different card.

[student]

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

A competitor to Preferred Rewards. https://www.usbank.com/credit-cards/ban ... -card.html

[SnowBog]

Covered in an existing thread found at viewtopic.php?p=8031544#p8031544

[student]

Sorry. Silly me. I will report to the moderator to close this thread.

Edit: Too late. I guess someone reported it already.

[LadyGeek]

Yes, it was already reported. I merged student's thread into the ongoing discussion.

(Thanks to the member who reported the post and provided a link to this thread.)

[Lyrrad]

So unless there is an annual fee for the credit card the only potential fee is $50 a year on an IRA balance under $250k which could be offset by a credit card sign up bonus (if it has one) or a new account bonus.

IRA fee should be waived with the Smartly Plus Tier ($50K+ average balance).

https://www.usbank.com/bank-accounts/ch ... wards.html

[3000]

So unless there is an annual fee for the credit card the only potential fee is $50 a year on an IRA balance under $250k which could be offset by a credit card sign up bonus (if it has one) or a new account bonus.

IRA fee should be waived with the Smartly Plus Tier ($50K+ average balance).

https://www.usbank.com/bank-accounts/ch ... wards.html

That’s awesome! Thank you!

[SnowBog]

So unless there is an annual fee for the credit card the only potential fee is $50 a year on an IRA balance under $250k which could be offset by a credit card sign up bonus (if it has one) or a new account bonus.

IRA fee should be waived with the Smartly Plus Tier ($50K+ average balance).

https://www.usbank.com/bank-accounts/ch ... wards.html

That’s awesome! Thank you!

Just wanted to point out the footnote and see if anyone can interpret it better than me...

Maintaining an open U.S. Bank Smartly® Checking account enrolled in the Smart Rewards® Plus tier, at a minimum, is required to waive the IRA annual fee. The IRA annual fee waiver does not apply to Personal Trust IRAs.

I'm not certain if this means the Checking account itself needs to be at the Plus level, or if the balance is the IRA would meet this qualification...

Especially since another link states that a balance > $250k is required... https://www.usbank.com/investing/online ... -fees.html

Annual account/IRA fees may be waived for clients with a statement household balance > $250k.

My working theory is you either need > $50k in Checking/Savings and/or a combined balance (including IRA/Brokerage) > $250k. But $50k in IRA/Brokerage alone isn't enough... But maybe I'm reading it wrong.

[Lyrrad]

So unless there is an annual fee for the credit card the only potential fee is $50 a year on an IRA balance under $250k which could be offset by a credit card sign up bonus (if it has one) or a new account bonus.

IRA fee should be waived with the Smartly Plus Tier ($50K+ average balance).

https://www.usbank.com/bank-accounts/ch ... wards.html

That’s awesome! Thank you!

Just wanted to point out the footnote and see if anyone can interpret it better than me...

Maintaining an open U.S. Bank Smartly® Checking account enrolled in the Smart Rewards® Plus tier, at a minimum, is required to waive the IRA annual fee. The IRA annual fee waiver does not apply to Personal Trust IRAs.

I'm not certain if this means the Checking account itself needs to be at the Plus level, or if the balance is the IRA would meet this qualification...

Especially since another link states that a balance > $250k is required... https://www.usbank.com/investing/online ... -fees.html

Annual account/IRA fees may be waived for clients with a statement household balance > $250k.

My working theory is you either need > $50k in Checking/Savings and/or a combined balance (including IRA/Brokerage) > $250k. But $50k in IRA/Brokerage alone isn't enough... But maybe I'm reading it wrong.

I think it's complicated, since there's several different US Bank products with different fees, and fee waivers, and balance requirements.

Let's look at them:
4% Smartly Visa: Need Smartly Savings Account and "a qualifying balance of $100,000 or more" in "U.S. Bank deposit, trust or investment accounts".
IRA fee waiver: Need Smartly Checking and Smart Rewards Plus Tier
Smartly Checking: Required for IRA fee waiver. Monthly fee waived with any Smart Rewards tier.
Smart Rewards tier: Can combine balances of different account types to meet balance requirements, including Checking account(s), Savings and Money Market account(s), Certificates of deposit (CDs) and Individual Retirement Accounts (IRAs), U.S. Bancorp Investments (an affiliate of U.S. Bank) and Personal Trust Accounts.
Smartly Savings: Fee waived with Smartly Checking

There's a separate fee waiver for IRA and Brokerage accounts if your combined household balance is over $250,000. Note that the Smart Rewards tiers only totals accounts where you are an owner.


So, if you plan to use only an IRA with at least $50K/$100K to meet the requirement for 3%/4% on the Smartly Visa, you should be able to do so without any fees, since at the $50K Smart Rewards tier, the monthly/annual fees for IRA and the Smartly Checking should be waived.

If you need a taxable brokerage account, you'll pay $50/year until you get to $250K in household balances to have brokerage annual fees waived. You'd also need $50K/$100K in qualifying accounts where you are an owner to get the Smart Rewards tier with 3%/4% back on the Visa card.

Edit: See this later post with details about the IRA fee waiver with the $50K tier being for a bank side IRA and not a brokerage IRA.

[anon_investor]

This 4% cashback card is definitely interested, even with all the hoops to jump through. I do have some concerns:

-Will the 4% cashback be unlimited, or will US Bank cap it (maybe in the future), similar to how the Alliant CC offered 2.5% cashback but had a monthly spending cap?

-Will the 4% cashback include tax payments (I believe some CCs don't count that as a purchase)?

-Will this 4% cashback and/or the Smartly Rewards program ultimately get nerfed or cancelled, it seems very new and a cost leader to bring in assets to US Bank, will it have staying power?

-What kind of credit limit will US Bank offer on this CC? US Bank has been notorious about issuing low credit limits on their Cash+ CC. A low credit limit, may make the 4% cashback CC unusable.

[SnowBog]

This 4% cashback card is definitely interested, even with all the hoops to jump through. I do have some concerns:

-Will the 4% cashback be unlimited, or will US Bank cap it (maybe in the future), similar to how the Alliant CC offered 2.5% cashback but had a monthly spending cap?

-Will the 4% cashback include tax payments (I believe some CCs don't count that as a purchase)?

-Will this 4% cashback and/or the Smartly Rewards program ultimately get nerfed or cancelled, it seems very new and a cost leader to bring in assets to US Bank, will it have staying power?

-What kind of credit limit will US Bank offer on this CC? US Bank has been notorious about issuing low credit limits on their Cash+ CC. A low credit limit, may make the 4% cashback CC unusable.

While I share many of your concerns, I'm not sure even if true, these change my positive outlook...

Many people have cash back cards where they have to deal with categories, spending limits, etc.

In our household - we are horrible with these... I can't get spouse to use more than 2 cards (even that was a challenge), and I personally forget to "optimize" my spend across my cards with categories. The later is in part as it's not always clear what category a transaction comes across as... Just got dinner from a local restaurant the other day, used our "dining" card, it ended up coded as groceries - with a lower cash back. I've probably lost at much cash back getting lower than expected when not coded as expected than I've gained with these approaches. Again, not a strength of our household...

So a 4% "use anywhere" card... Yes please!

I hope it lives up to it's name as being an "unlimited" card. I think it would be disingenuous to put a "limit" in the 2% bonus, given it's requirements. Maybe it will have a lower credit line... But if it does, we are still probably better off vs. alternatives - at least in our household...

Likewise with the other items. If they don't include tax payments, well looks like I keep my BoA cards (and rewards tier) with them. I wouldn't not use a 4% card just because I couldn't use it for this one thing...

And if it gets canceled... Well, I was using Greenlight's [up to] 3% cash back Family Card until it was canceled this month. But for the many months we had it, we were getting an extra 0.375% cash back. Of course I'd have liked it to remain available, but I'm glad I took advantage of it while we did. Same will apply here - I'll happily use it as long as they let me...

ETA - Capitol One Savor card has a 4% cash back on dining and entertainment. We've had/used it for years, and was the "dining" card I referenced above. They've sustained 4% cash back - without limits - albeit on limited categories. I don't think it's unrealistic that US Bank could do so - especially when done as a "bonus" that many may not qualify for anyway...

[JackoC]

This 4% cashback card is definitely interested, even with all the hoops to jump through. I do have some concerns:

1. Will the 4% cashback be unlimited, or will US Bank cap it (maybe in the future), similar to how the Alliant CC offered 2.5% cashback but had a monthly spending cap?

2. Will the 4% cashback include tax payments (I believe some CCs don't count that as a purchase)?

3. Will this 4% cashback and/or the Smartly Rewards program ultimately get nerfed or cancelled, it seems very new and a cost leader to bring in assets to US Bank, will it have staying power?

4. What kind of credit limit will US Bank offer on this CC? US Bank has been notorious about issuing low credit limits on their Cash+ CC. A low credit limit, may make the 4% cashback CC unusable.

I agree all 4 are risks, but 1 and 3, 1 as relates to what USB *may* do in the future, are true of every rewards program. BOA might 'nerf' their currently sweet set up too, as has been rumored they were about to before (but didn't so far), and the fact it's been around for years now doesn't guarantee its future. BOA pays close to 4% average on our 'normal' (excluding est tax) CC spending, it's not obviously unaffordable.

2 and 4 are to me the key unknowns to jump through the hoops of setting up the investment account and xferring $100k+ ETF (assume as starting point accepting the $50 annual account fee <$250k). Just applying for a card (and seems you need a USB checking account for the rewards) that doesn't pan out isn't as big a deal. Then as mentioned the breakeven v BOA 2.625% is $50/(4%-2.625%)=$3,636 annually. We spend several times that on BOA PR and UCR combined for 'normal' stuff (also excluding some 3.5% travel on PR). But it would become an absolute no brainer if a) est tax payments count (though on what card don't they count as general spending? I'm curious though not directly relevant because I know they do at BOA) b) what size USB might call 'manipulating the program' (BOA tolerates at least multi-$10k's per year IME) c) they give a big enough line to fit one's payments (splitting the payments among the 3 IRS payment providers is another hoop jumping option). If they didn't, theoretically you might still pay to a negative balance 1st then make the charge but that might not work on their card or they might object to that specifically as manipulation.

Which implies to me get the card and see what line they'll give, perhaps even make one pretty big est tax payment at 2% (not a huge loss v BOA 2.625%) to verify it works before doing the hoop jumping of setting up the investment account. Unless there's some user feedback first.