High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

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ResponsibleGoal1217
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High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by ResponsibleGoal1217 »

Hi Bogleheads friends and advisors,
I'm at a financial crossroads and could use some advice from this community.
Quick snapshot:
• Late thirties, single, medical professional
• $700k annual pre-tax income (expected to increase to $750k next year; almost half goes to taxes)
• $1.1M in equities (70% VTI, 15% VXUS, 15% BND; $100k in Vanguard Target Date Fund)
• $550k cash on hand accumulated over the past years
• No debt, car paid off
• Currently renting: $2,200/month all-inclusive
Career situation: I've established a strong subspecialty practice at my hospital. They need me more than I need them due to recent retirements. While I'm open to opportunities, I don't have other job prospects on the horizon that match my current autonomy and job interest. However, I lack faith in the administrators and fear they may change my job conditions in the next few years if recruitment picks up.
This has led to a housing search over the past 5 months. I've found a house listed at $530k. My realtor said this was overpriced and suggested $480k as fair. I offered $485k, which the owners accepted, but I'm having second thoughts.
Financial considerations:
• I can save about $15k monthly
• Planning to maintain a $150k emergency fund
• Annual property taxes would be $6-7k
• Estimated maintenance costs: 1-3% of purchase price annually
The cash I've accumulated was initially for an investment property, but I've decided against being a landlord. Now I'm wondering if using it for a primary residence is wise. I accumulated this large amount of cash over the past 3 years, thinking I needed to buy a house as part of my diversification strategy. I don't need a house and am happy renting, but I thought owning property would be beneficial.
However, I'm having cold feet and unsure what to do (I've lost sleep over this). [Unnecessary comments removed - moderator Kendall]
I would greatly appreciate your advice. Should I buy the house? Should I stay flexible and invest my money in VTI/VXUS/BND at the same allocation? Should I buy treasury bonds? I'm torn on what the most conservative approach would be. I'm not a businessman; I just know medicine and will continue to work hard in my field, but I want peace of mind and some "FU" money if things go south.
Thank you in advance for your insights.
Parkinglotracer
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by Parkinglotracer »

Welcome to the forum. Congrats on your career and saving success to date. I don’t have a simple answer for you. With your savings and career if I knew I wasn’t going to relocate in the next 3 to 5 years I’d buy a house if I thought I would enjoy being a homeowner. Owning a home is great because you can take pride in what you have and over time it will likely go up in value. You can make changes to the house without asking anyone; you won’t get a call from a landlord and have to relocate. But you have to make repairs or hire someone to make repairs. You have to spend more money on your house than if you were renting. You can’t move on short notice easily. You might have more money if you rent and save the difference. I think you know all this.

With your income and career I think this may be a “what will bring you more joy” question than an analytical one. Of course if you are an analytic type person you can list all the factors in a matrix, assign point values to each, and then calculate the right answer for you. ( I learned that technique from engineers where I worked lol). For me I’d list my monthly expenses of owning a home ( see below) then imagine what it will be like and make a decision.

Taxes, payment, insurance, lawn, pest, repairs, hoa, etc

Disclaimer - we own two modest homes in retirement because we snow bird to get away from cold and be near family in Florida half the year. We spend about 25K a year on the two homes I guess. We like owning homes for pride in ownership and as protection from inflation and Rent increases. A neighbor in Florida called me yesterday and is moving across town because his landlord raised his rent 800 a month. Our houses are about 30% of our networth discounting pensions we have.
bombcar
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by bombcar »

This is a personal question masquerading as a financial one.

You can easily afford the house. Buy it. Buy two.

The problem is you’re young, you’re single, and you’re not sure where you want to be. Spend time thinking about that (could you be married with kids in ten years? Would the house be where you’d want to raise them?) and I think the financial questions will fall into place.

Given the details I think you’ve no problem buying the house; worst case you sell it in a few years if it doesn’t work the way you wanted. Even if we assume everything goes horribly and you take a $50k bath on it - that’s not much compared to your income and spending $50k to learn more about yourself could be well worth it. Cheaper than some midlife crises!
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RickBoglehead
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by RickBoglehead »

This is a discussion and thought process one should make before making an offer, and having it accepted... If you back out, the seller should keep your deposit money and your realtor should ask for compensation.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, EVs (1005 EV), etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
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ResponsibleGoal1217
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by ResponsibleGoal1217 »

We did not come to final terms and the offer wasn't associated with a deposit. It was discussion between the two agents. They wanted to take certain things from the house that were on the listing so the terms were somewhat changed but now I'm at the junction where a formal final offer could be made.
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simplesimon
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by simplesimon »

A few things you said don't make sense to me and it's a good thing you're here before committing to the house. First step is to get out of that deal and ask more questions about home ownership. You won't regret it.

I was a little confused about how an uncertain job situation led you to believe that buying a house is the proper response. You'd be putting yourself in an inflexible situation when flexibility is needed most, and while the financial cost compared to your net worth and income is going to be small, it would be a drain on time and mental energy.

And from an investment perspective, buying a house is the opposite of diversification because then 1/3 of your net worth is in a single asset reliant on a single geographical location and a single tenant.

The only "benefit" to homeownership I can see is for you to learn first hand what home ownership is about. People here can tell you all they can about the pros and cons, but often times people need to experience it for themselves to be convinced and fortunately the financial cost is much smaller for you compared to most people.
ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 8:40 pm I'm torn on what the most conservative approach would be. I'm not a businessman; I just know medicine and will continue to work hard in my field, but I want peace of mind and some "FU" money if things go south.
This tells me passive investment where you set it and forget it is best for you. A target date fund is a perfectly good solution. People will say its not optimal but you're not looking for maximum optimization.
sambb
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by sambb »

continue renting. As far as administrators, they have a job to do also, and it might be different from yours. Just enjoy your work and that is the most important thing at this income level, and be the administrator's friend and ally to maintain relationships that are important for the future.
afan
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by afan »

The most conservative will be to continue renting. That does not mean it is the best decision for you.
As others have noted, your income relative to expenses and the cost of the house you are considering will prevent you from being badly hurt no matter how poorly things turn out. If you decide to move cities at the same time as a real estate crash you could lose several hundred thousand dollars on the house. That is a truly worst case scenario. But you could afford that.
More likely, the house price is stagnant and all your expenses mean you lose money on the deal but not a hyve amount.
As a physician, you know that everything is in flux. Even the most stable practices can encounter new challenges. That is life in that field. As a successful clinician, you have a marketable skill that you can take with you elsewhere if you decide to leave. You probably know that many docs change their practice locations during their careers.

About the only risk I can see is if you are in a field that is being taken over by private equity. If so, then bets are off as to what will happen.

If you are happy renting, then it is hard to see a reason to invest the time and effort involved in buying and maintaining a house. But your decision should revolve around how much you want to be a homeowner.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
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GarfieldBogle
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by GarfieldBogle »

$750k Salary * .50 to taxes = $375k take home
ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 8:40 pm
Financial considerations:
• I can save about $15k monthly
This implies you are saving $180k a year. That would mean annual expenses of $195k.

Is this correct, OP? If so, you are a far away from being financially independent with your current portfolio. With rent being only $2200/month, it wouldn't seem prudent to put down nearly $500k on a house that would cost 1-3% in annual expenses to the home's value.
cmr79
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by cmr79 »

ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 8:40 pm ...However, I lack faith in the administrators and fear they may change my job conditions in the next few years...
Just a friendly reminder that the hospital (much as the army) won't love you back. If you don't expect it to, and you don't expect administration anywhere to appreciate your contributions or value you appropriately, you won't inevitably be disappointed when they fail to meet your expectations.

As others have noted, you don't really provide a coherent reason for considering buying a house at this point--in fact, your concerns about your job stability would be a counterpoint to buying if you otherwise really wanted to own your home. I wonder if perhaps buying a house is more of an emotional response to feeling a lack of stability with your work right now? If so, it isn't a good solution and (as others have also already pointed out) it might even lead to increased stress at work if it makes you feel stuck to a worsening administrative situation.

This seems like a situation in which the best course of action is to just stand there and NOT do something. With a very high income and low expenses, you can reach FI quite quickly and truly achieve the sense of stability you seem to be craving.
WWJBDo
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by WWJBDo »

I don't know your intended marital future, but if you plan to have a partner, your idea of a good house may take a radical turn. Suddenly your spouse's opinion is important, location WRT school districts, etc. On top of that you seem to have some concerns about your hospital position. If I were in your position and wanted housing stability, I'd look at a condo. It's lower maintenance (getting things fixed is more difficult to navigate when you're single), probably less expensive and at your income level, you can decide later whether to keep the condo or sell it when it's time to look for a family home. You may not want to be a landlord, but it could be the start of a vocation for a future partner.

I would not bother getting a house now.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair
JPM
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by JPM »

For high-earning single young physicians without clear 20-40-year career paths in view, I agree with Simon that flexibility is paramount and so the better choice is continuing to rent. Buying a house/condo is buying an anchor that may lead to other perhaps non optimizing decisions in the future.

Hospital based specialists serve at the pleasure of the administrations and they seldom feel personal loyalty to their physicians. It's not hard to outsource or centralize pathology and radiology services. Rehab directors, psych directors, lab directors, etc tend to come and go in desirable locations.

Probably wiser to save and invest until future marriage plans (if any) and your professional plans are clearer. If you are able to save $200k+/year , your wealth will probably build up fast enough investing BH style. You have a long life and a long career ahead if you want them, so masterful inactivity may be called for. You have a great start. Continue to practice good medicine, save and invest, and your financial life will pretty much take care if itself.

Sounds like OP is in a VHCOL area with almost $200k in personal expenses per year. Savings earned in such a place go far in MCOL areas should OP relocate for a better work situation or family situation in the future.
er999
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by er999 »

I’d suggest to keep renting unless there is some hobby that requires you to own a house.

If you think you might get married in the next few years and have a family buy a house then.

You have more than enough income so I’d focus on optimizing your life otherwise, even if it means a pay cut.

Focus on tax efficient investing. Taxable should hold VTI, tax deferred VXUS and bonds (and maybe no need for any bonds beyond an emergency fund). That’s the ideal, okay to put vxus and bonds in taxable if you don’t have the space in tax deferred.
VoiceOfReason
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by VoiceOfReason »

The house purchase is a want not a need. As is the case for most single no kid people. However, given all your financial factors you can take actions on wants without worrying at all.

I think this is much more of personal question as someone said earlier. What do you want in your life? Marriage? Kids? Early retirement? Work until you are 65? Getting answers to these questions will give you clarity.

I personally delayed a house purchase until I was married and had a kid on the way. That was the moment there was a clear need. It’s been 10 years with homeownership and while I do not want to hurry my kids to grow up, but when they do and are out of the house I am looking forward to downsizing as quickly as possible.

Homeownership is a time and $ suck. Worth it for stability with a family. But I look at high earners that rent or have a condo as being in such a great spot. Don’t think about money, earn and invest and just be able to have a simple life and spend money on essentially anything they want to do in their free time. The simplicity is hard to get back once it’s gone.
fasteddie911
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by fasteddie911 »

Easy decision, don't buy. You're happy renting and you're losing sleep over it. Keep working, saving and invest 450k-500k of that cash. You seem a bit conservative/paranoid. I don't see why you need FU money. If things go south just look for another job.
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by Thick Planchet »

If I were in your shoes, based on the facts provided, I’d continue renting, continue saving and investing. I’d also recommend you read Jack Bogle’s classic Common Sense on Mutual Funds and then implement a simple three-fund portfolio. This will give you great results for little effort. Buy a home when you marry or feel secure in it.
Ask for advice, but do what you think is best. -Greek Proverb
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cchrissyy
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by cchrissyy »

the only mistake you could make here would be getting into the landlord business, or buying a house double what you are contemplating
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ResponsibleGoal1217
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by ResponsibleGoal1217 »

Apologize for the confusion:
I'd like to clarify my financial situation and journey and thank you for taking the time to give me feedback.
1. Starting Point (July 2019):
• Net worth: $75,000
• Prior to this, I was a resident/fellow. My savings went towards debt repayment and parents support rather than investments. so had zero investments and all what I had saved was cash (paid off my car which was bought new in 2011 and still going strong until now).
2. Income Progression:
• July 2019 - March 2020: $280,000/year (pre-tax)
• March 2020 - July 2024: $550,000/year (pre-tax)
• Received two bonuses totaling $120,000 during this period
• July 2024 onwards: $700,000/year (pre-tax)
3. Retirement Savings:
• Started contributing to Roth IRA and 401(k) in 2019
• Became eligible for 457(b) in July 2024 and began maxing it out
4. Annual Spending:
• 1/2020 - 1/2021: $53,000
• 1/2021 - 1/2022: $65,000 (higher due to numerous events)
• 1/2022 - 1/2023: $54,000
• 1/2023 - 1/2024: $52,000
Despite significant increases in my income over the years, my annual spending has remained relatively consistent.
Breakdown of Major Expenses:
Rent: 25000/year~ (a significant portion of expenses).
Internet 960/year
phone 540/year
Disability Insurance: $3,600/year
Car Insurance: Approximately $1,200/year
Food: I prioritize high-quality groceries and don't skimp on this category
I don't currently use credit card points for savings, as I'm unfamiliar with how to plan and maximize these benefits.
Appreciate your feedback on my situation.
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simplesimon
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by simplesimon »

ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:36 am Apologize for the confusion:
I'd like to clarify my financial situation and journey and thank you for taking the time to give me feedback.
Just to make the math easy, assuming 50% goes to taxes and your annual spend is $50k, you're left with $300k per year to spend/save/invest?

The investing part is easy - as I said earlier since you value simplicity and something hands off a Target Date retirement fund is okay. If you're interested in a little bit more optimization/complexity then start with the Bogleheads wiki or the Bogleheads Guide to Investing book.

The spend part requires introspection - what's been keeping you at $50k annual spend despite making loads more money? Does it make sense to continue doing so and why? What's important and meaningful to you that you can spend money on (you mention high quality groceries, what else?) What brings you happiness?
James.534
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by James.534 »

Buy a house if you want a house , the budget allows and you want everything else which goes along with owning a house.

Dont buy a house, just for investment sake, there are many other ways to diversify which don't require ongoing home maintenance or the hassle factor. I live in a house because I like where we live, I like doing yard work and fixing broken things. A house in not in itself a way to riches that can not be managed through some other means. In fact, owning a home has many ongoing expenses other than the mortgage payment. Many people need the house, because it is forced saving for the future. If you can figure out how to save every month, with out being forced into by a mortgage payment, you will be just as well off, at least financially.
Xrayman69
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by Xrayman69 »

JPM wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:05 am For high-earning single young physicians without clear 20-40-year career paths in view, I agree with Simon that flexibility is paramount and so the better choice is continuing to rent. Buying a house/condo is buying an anchor that may lead to other perhaps non optimizing decisions in the future.

Hospital based specialists serve at the pleasure of the administrations and they seldom feel personal loyalty to their physicians. It's not hard to outsource or centralize pathology and radiology services. Rehab directors, psych directors, lab directors, etc tend to come and go in desirable locations.

Probably wiser to save and invest until future marriage plans (if any) and your professional plans are clearer. If you are able to save $200k+/year , your wealth will probably build up fast enough investing BH style. You have a long life and a long career ahead if you want them, so masterful inactivity may be called for. You have a great start. Continue to practice good medicine, save and invest, and your financial life will pretty much take care if itself.

Sounds like OP is in a VHCOL area with almost $200k in personal expenses per year. Savings earned in such a place go far in MCOL areas should OP relocate for a better work situation or family situation in the future.
VHCOL with a 500K home?

OP,
Rent. Home ownership in this range likely has little upside growth value compared to your equity portfolio. Home ownership WILL absolutely take time to tend and manage.

As far as the hospital administration goes, you may want and need to grow and develop as a professional so as to make sure that you are the major influence on your destiny than a non clinical administrator. Take the extra time you will have by not owning to take some leadership and management courses and thus be able to speak the management/ administrative language. Nothing more influential to an heath care administrator is a clinical expert who also has administrative capabilities. I know this is not as sexy as operating. However, there WILL be a time in the future that you will find operating second nature and “easy”. As result it will take less time and intellectual effort and free up more time to influence the process of heath care .
il0kin
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by il0kin »

With a $700k+ income, your considerations are different than a more typical middle/upper middle class person where having a paid-for house is an important part of minimizing cash outflow in retirement.

Assuming you have a fairly large workload as a MD, renting removes several hours per week of maintenance and things you need to deal with as a homeowner. Even if you hire out things like mowing, that’s still some time and mental effort to manage the house, plus several hundred dollars a month.

$25k in rent is a rounding error on a $400k after-tax income. I would continue to rent and invest. As other posters said, you may find a partner or have a family in the future and the house you buy now will more than likely not be the exact house your future spouse wants.

Stay flexible until your life changes in such a way that you know you’re ready to be in one place for an extended period of time.
Parkinglotracer
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by Parkinglotracer »

I use a citi card cash back 2% charge card and get say $140 a month back. I don’t do any unnatural things to increase my credit card rewards other than applying for a charge card every few years to get some airline points when it seems like a good deal. Overall you are doing great. I’d loosen the purse strings a bit and enjoy myself - while it’s smart to save for retirement “life is a journey, not a destination” always reminds me life can be a short trip so enjoy it. Congrats on your focus, education, job, and savings to date!
pennsylvania211
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by pennsylvania211 »

First, congrats.

If you don't need the house, don't just buy it for asset diversification. The diversification benefits are not measurably better than residential REITs.

But there are downsides compared to residential REITs:
1. Concentration into one house, in one county, in one state.
2. Concentration into a fixed dollar investment, with rising net worth. Your asset allocation ratios will keep deviating off course unless you keep buying more houses to keep up with rising net worth.
3. Labor/maintenance. Time spent on house is almost certainly much lower yield than moonlighting, and, maybe would be better spent on other things in life that you may have put on the back burner to get to where you are. As in dating, traveling, or whatever interests and hobbies float your boat. Dollars are important, but life is much more richer and colorful than simply maximizing every dollar.
snowday2022
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by snowday2022 »

I am similar age and profession and income. I own because I have a family and value stability. If I were you, I would rent. You have done fantastic at keeping expenses low and investing. Honestly, I would probably start spending more to enjoy yourself. Decide if you want a partner and or family. If you’re like me, you work too hard.

Don’t sweat the admins. Since you are single, you could easily move to another hospital or state and find a great job. Since you are frugal, you have lots of room for flexibility if they try to nickle and dime you. My experience is that if you bring in lots of money, as long as you aren’t committing fraud or malpractice or you are a psychopath, they will basically stay out of your way.

Good luck.
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ResponsibleGoal1217
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by ResponsibleGoal1217 »

Thank you everyone for your valuable advice. Based on your insights, I've decided to continue renting and investing for now. This will maintain my flexibility and allow me to focus on personal and professional growth.
While I hope to have a partner/wife someday, I recognize that at my age and net worth, finding a genuine, caring individual may be challenging. Given this uncertainty, staying flexible with housing seems prudent.
I have a couple of follow-up questions:

@Xrayman69: You suggested taking leadership and management courses. Do you have specific recommendations for programs that would be valuable for a physician looking to develop administrative capabilities? Any resources you found helpful in learning to "speak the management/administrative language"?

To the forum:
As a physician without a financial background, can anyone recommend the best up-to-date book on asset allocation strategy suitable for someone with my background? I'm looking for guidance on making informed investment decisions that consider my unique situation as a high-income medical professional.
Thank you all again for your guidance. It's been invaluable in helping me navigate these financial decisions.
Capt x-ray
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by Capt x-ray »

Just to reiterate, you are doing great. Keep up the good work!

Really buying this house is a drop in the bucket for you. If it makes you happy (ie closer to the hospital for call, good neighbors, further from the city), buy it. If it doesn't substantially make you happy, then don't buy it. While owning a home may be expensive, expensive cars and boats are much worse for the pocketbook. With such a large income, you really don't have to optimize every detail to win the game.

I wouldn't worry too much about administration either. I don't know what kind of physician you are, but your knowledge and skill set cannot be easily replaced. There is a severe physician shortage in pretty much every field. While administration will always protect the bottom line and try to push you around, if you ever call their bluff, you will find you have much more of the power than you think. I'd be surprised if you couldn't raise your income.

I really enjoy the White Coat Investor book, blog, and podcast.
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simplesimon
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by simplesimon »

ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:10 am To the forum:
As a physician without a financial background, can anyone recommend the best up-to-date book on asset allocation strategy suitable for someone with my background? I'm looking for guidance on making informed investment decisions that consider my unique situation as a high-income medical professional.
Thank you all again for your guidance. It's been invaluable in helping me navigate these financial decisions.
Check out White Coat Investor: the website, book, forums, and blog.
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climber2020
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by climber2020 »

ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:10 am To the forum:
As a physician without a financial background, can anyone recommend the best up-to-date book on asset allocation strategy suitable for someone with my background? I'm looking for guidance on making informed investment decisions that consider my unique situation as a high-income medical professional.
First piece of advice is to lose this mentality. "Unique situation as a high income medical professional" is the exact phrase an insurance salesman posing as a financial advisor used to nearly sell me a Whole Life policy right around the time I found Bogleheads just in time to prevent what would have been a disastrous mistake.

Your situation is not unique or special. Just do the normal thing, watch your expenses, don't make any big mistakes, and it'll be nearly impossible for you to not end up very wealthy.
Parkinglotracer
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by Parkinglotracer »

climber2020 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 7:44 am
ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:10 am To the forum:
As a physician without a financial background, can anyone recommend the best up-to-date book on asset allocation strategy suitable for someone with my background? I'm looking for guidance on making informed investment decisions that consider my unique situation as a high-income medical professional.
First piece of advice is to lose this mentality. "Unique situation as a high income medical professional" is the exact phrase an insurance salesman posing as a financial advisor used to nearly sell me a Whole Life policy right around the time I found Bogleheads just in time to prevent what would have been a disastrous mistake.

Your situation is not unique or special. Just do the normal thing, watch your expenses, don't make any big mistakes, and it'll be nearly impossible for you to not end up very wealthy.
I agree 100%. In my opinion a low cost diversified index fund is the best one can do. Period. What’s better?
BetterPaws
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by BetterPaws »

Since the offer was accepted, I suggest you honor it and go through the process of closing it. Move into it. Learn a bit to be home owner. You may hate it later or you may find it fun, but at least you went through the process. I suspect it's the uncertainty that is making you anxious right now; you can make it certain and try this route. The potential financial downside is actually small, compared to your cash holding.
123
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by 123 »

WWJBDo wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 10:03 am I don't know your intended marital future, but if you plan to have a partner, your idea of a good house may take a radical turn. Suddenly your spouse's opinion is important,...
I would not bother getting a house now.
+1 In your situation the biggest threat to the ongoing utility of purchasing a home is an involvement with a partner. However, at your income and asset level you could well tolerate any financial consequences of a required move. I think the most important argument against the purchase of a home is the potential inconvenience caused by the need to involve service people for repairs, like water leaks, HVAC problems, and appliance repairs, they happen in all homes, doesn't matter if you buy new construction or not. Your own time is precious.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
snowday2022
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by snowday2022 »

123 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 9:26 pm
WWJBDo wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 10:03 am I don't know your intended marital future, but if you plan to have a partner, your idea of a good house may take a radical turn. Suddenly your spouse's opinion is important,...
I would not bother getting a house now.
+1 In your situation the biggest threat to the ongoing utility of purchasing a home is an involvement with a partner. However, at your income and asset level you could well tolerate any financial consequences of a required move. I think the most important argument against the purchase of a home is the potential inconvenience caused by the need to involve service people for repairs, like water leaks, HVAC problems, and appliance repairs, they happen in all homes, doesn't matter if you buy new construction or not. Your own time is precious.
Yes. It’s almost impossible to deal with home repairs when you work a busy job, leaving before sunrise and coming home after sunset M-F, plus some weekend work.
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Metsfan91
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by Metsfan91 »

Don’t buy. Keep renting. Maintain your flexibility. Invest your money. You could maintain the same allocation as you do right now.
"Know what you own, and know why you own it." — Peter Lynch
Chardo
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by Chardo »

You don't necessarily need it yet, but I suggest getting a substantial term insurance policy now, while you're still young and (presumably) healthy. You're at an age where it gets noticeably more expensive each year. If a spouse and kids are in the future plans, you're going to need that life insurance. Lock it in now while it's still really cheap.

You also might want to review your disability policy. Pretty low premium for a high earner. Did you buy it when your income was lower? Can you increase the coverage? Does the definition of disability account for your subspecialty?
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by Bikesy »

BetterPaws wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:58 pm Since the offer was accepted, I suggest you honor it and go through the process of closing it. Move into it. Learn a bit to be home owner. You may hate it later or you may find it fun, but at least you went through the process. I suspect it's the uncertainty that is making you anxious right now; you can make it certain and try this route. The potential financial downside is actually small, compared to your cash holding.
People exit these contracts all the time. If you're inside of due diligence I see zero reason to move forward. There's no honor involved IMO.
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by tibbitts »

snowday2022 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 10:43 pm
123 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 9:26 pm
WWJBDo wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 10:03 am I don't know your intended marital future, but if you plan to have a partner, your idea of a good house may take a radical turn. Suddenly your spouse's opinion is important,...
I would not bother getting a house now.
+1 In your situation the biggest threat to the ongoing utility of purchasing a home is an involvement with a partner. However, at your income and asset level you could well tolerate any financial consequences of a required move. I think the most important argument against the purchase of a home is the potential inconvenience caused by the need to involve service people for repairs, like water leaks, HVAC problems, and appliance repairs, they happen in all homes, doesn't matter if you buy new construction or not. Your own time is precious.
Yes. It’s almost impossible to deal with home repairs when you work a busy job, leaving before sunrise and coming home after sunset M-F, plus some weekend work.
Both of these posts are saying that a homeowner has to either d-i-y everything related to the home or be doomed to the nuisance of dealing with contractors. My thought: some - maybe even most - of the hassle of dealing with contractors is trying to get a Boglehead-approved deal vs. just throwing money at a problem and having it be somewhat likely to go away. Outside of this forum, a lot of people in the OP's financial position would just throw money at a problem and that would usually - not always, but usually - greatly reduce the effort involved in home ownership.
snowday2022
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by snowday2022 »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 8:32 am
snowday2022 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 10:43 pm
123 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 9:26 pm
WWJBDo wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2024 10:03 am I don't know your intended marital future, but if you plan to have a partner, your idea of a good house may take a radical turn. Suddenly your spouse's opinion is important,...
I would not bother getting a house now.
+1 In your situation the biggest threat to the ongoing utility of purchasing a home is an involvement with a partner. However, at your income and asset level you could well tolerate any financial consequences of a required move. I think the most important argument against the purchase of a home is the potential inconvenience caused by the need to involve service people for repairs, like water leaks, HVAC problems, and appliance repairs, they happen in all homes, doesn't matter if you buy new construction or not. Your own time is precious.
Yes. It’s almost impossible to deal with home repairs when you work a busy job, leaving before sunrise and coming home after sunset M-F, plus some weekend work.
Both of these posts are saying that a homeowner has to either d-i-y everything related to the home or be doomed to the nuisance of dealing with contractors. My thought: some - maybe even most - of the hassle of dealing with contractors is trying to get a Boglehead-approved deal vs. just throwing money at a problem and having it be somewhat likely to go away. Outside of this forum, a lot of people in the OP's financial position would just throw money at a problem and that would usually - not always, but usually - greatly reduce the effort involved in home ownership.
I make almost 1M per yr and my wife is a SAHM. I am happy to throw money at plumbers, electricians, handymen etc to fix problems with my house. I never bargain, or shop around for these services. Still, they only come between 8 and 5, often on little notice, and often when my wife is doing school pickup and drop off. I am never home between those hours. Without a spouse, I would have to take days off to get problems around my house fixed, or hire a butler.
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by tibbitts »

snowday2022 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 12:13 pm I make almost 1M per yr and my wife is a SAHM. I am happy to throw money at plumbers, electricians, handymen etc to fix problems with my house. I never bargain, or shop around for these services. Still, they only come between 8 and 5, often on little notice, and often when my wife is doing school pickup and drop off. I am never home between those hours. Without a spouse, I would have to take days off to get problems around my house fixed, or hire a butler.
Can't most service providers do what they do without an escort if you've taken reasonable precautions? Or couldn't you coordinate with someone you hire and have at the house anyway (like a housekeeper)?
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by YHD »

Even if the offer is accepted, if no money has changed hands, walk away if that is what will make you happy/relieved.

Even with a good faith deposit, it may make sense to still walk away and lose the deposit over committing to house, have buyer’s regret and can’t sell.

Agree that doctors aren’t special. It’s a business and business considerations tend to prevail. Admin-speak or even being one of them can lead to financial rewards for self and practice. If you generate income, you have leverage.

As a physician at the tail end of the career, I’ve been recommending to newly minted attendings to make their coin (save/invest) to give themselves options.

Cue the Clash.
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by Xrayman69 »

ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:10 am Thank you everyone for your valuable advice. Based on your insights, I've decided to continue renting and investing for now. This will maintain my flexibility and allow me to focus on personal and professional growth.
While I hope to have a partner/wife someday, I recognize that at my age and net worth, finding a genuine, caring individual may be challenging. Given this uncertainty, staying flexible with housing seems prudent.
I have a couple of follow-up questions:

@Xrayman69: You suggested taking leadership and management courses. Do you have specific recommendations for programs that would be valuable for a physician looking to develop administrative capabilities? Any resources you found helpful in learning to "speak the management/administrative language"?

To the forum:
As a physician without a financial background, can anyone recommend the best up-to-date book on asset allocation strategy suitable for someone with my background? I'm looking for guidance on making informed investment decisions that consider my unique situation as a high-income medical professional.
Thank you all again for your guidance. It's been invaluable in helping me navigate these financial decisions.
Your major subspecialty national organization should have resources to direct you on a course or track that supports these needs. There should be sessions at your national annual meeting then activities on line through out the year. You DONT need an MBA as this is little added value and the time to get one is a cost. You just need some cursory education particularly if you are at a community hospital or health system. Just start and it will lead you as you go along to areas of interest.

If you indeed are the essential remaining specialist in your hospital you should also consider being named the medical director of the specialty on the hospital medical staff and executive committee. This may require about 8-16 Hijra per month and should come with a stipend to compensate for your time and expertise. This will also allow you to learn more about the organization operational process and integration of clinical and administrative collaborations
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by bltn »

ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:10 am Thank you everyone for your valuable advice. Based on your insights, I've decided to continue renting and investing for now. This will maintain my flexibility and allow me to focus on personal and professional growth.
While I hope to have a partner/wife someday, I recognize that at my age and net worth, finding a genuine, caring individual may be challenging. Given this uncertainty, staying flexible with housing seems prudent.
I have a couple of follow-up questions:

@Xrayman69: You suggested taking leadership and management courses. Do you have specific recommendations for programs that would be valuable for a physician looking to develop administrative capabilities? Any resources you found helpful in learning to "speak the management/administrative language"?

To the forum:
As a physician without a financial background, can anyone recommend the best up-to-date book on asset allocation strategy suitable for someone with my background? I'm looking for guidance on making informed investment decisions that consider my unique situation as a high-income medical professional.
Thank you all again for your guidance. It's been invaluable in helping me navigate these financial decisions.
Congratulations on your decision to follow the almost unanimous advice in this thread. Continuing your accumulation will give you plenty of opportunity to buy a house when your long term employment future is more secure.

As far as educating yourself on financial matters, consider visiting this forum a couple of times a week just to read through some questions and the advice given. The information on the wiki is also educational. Also consider reading through postings on the White Coat Investor website periodically. You ll learn a great deal from these online resources.
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by snowday2022 »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 12:56 pm
snowday2022 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 12:13 pm I make almost 1M per yr and my wife is a SAHM. I am happy to throw money at plumbers, electricians, handymen etc to fix problems with my house. I never bargain, or shop around for these services. Still, they only come between 8 and 5, often on little notice, and often when my wife is doing school pickup and drop off. I am never home between those hours. Without a spouse, I would have to take days off to get problems around my house fixed, or hire a butler.
Can't most service providers do what they do without an escort if you've taken reasonable precautions? Or couldn't you coordinate with someone you hire and have at the house anyway (like a housekeeper)?
Theoretically yes you are correct. Wife does not like idea of strangers unsupervised in the house. I don’t really either. Often the worker needs to talk to somebody who knows the problem with the fridge, outlet etc. and I am not available to even answer a phone call during business hours if I’m operating etc. So for OP it’s possible he could handle all of this stuff on his own, but it would be a pain.
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by tibbitts »

snowday2022 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:46 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 12:56 pm
snowday2022 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 12:13 pm I make almost 1M per yr and my wife is a SAHM. I am happy to throw money at plumbers, electricians, handymen etc to fix problems with my house. I never bargain, or shop around for these services. Still, they only come between 8 and 5, often on little notice, and often when my wife is doing school pickup and drop off. I am never home between those hours. Without a spouse, I would have to take days off to get problems around my house fixed, or hire a butler.
Can't most service providers do what they do without an escort if you've taken reasonable precautions? Or couldn't you coordinate with someone you hire and have at the house anyway (like a housekeeper)?
Theoretically yes you are correct. Wife does not like idea of strangers unsupervised in the house. I don’t really either. Often the worker needs to talk to somebody who knows the problem with the fridge, outlet etc. and I am not available to even answer a phone call during business hours if I’m operating etc. So for OP it’s possible he could handle all of this stuff on his own, but it would be a pain.
I agree that of course it's better to not have a contractor unsupervised in the house, but in an apartment it's still a logistical problem. Even if it's not a refrigerator that you bought, you're still the only one who knows what's wrong with it, and the maintenance people are going to show up at arbitrary times when it's least convenient for you.
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by snowday2022 »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 5:20 pm
snowday2022 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:46 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 12:56 pm
snowday2022 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 12:13 pm I make almost 1M per yr and my wife is a SAHM. I am happy to throw money at plumbers, electricians, handymen etc to fix problems with my house. I never bargain, or shop around for these services. Still, they only come between 8 and 5, often on little notice, and often when my wife is doing school pickup and drop off. I am never home between those hours. Without a spouse, I would have to take days off to get problems around my house fixed, or hire a butler.
Can't most service providers do what they do without an escort if you've taken reasonable precautions? Or couldn't you coordinate with someone you hire and have at the house anyway (like a housekeeper)?
Theoretically yes you are correct. Wife does not like idea of strangers unsupervised in the house. I don’t really either. Often the worker needs to talk to somebody who knows the problem with the fridge, outlet etc. and I am not available to even answer a phone call during business hours if I’m operating etc. So for OP it’s possible he could handle all of this stuff on his own, but it would be a pain.
I agree that of course it's better to not have a contractor unsupervised in the house, but in an apartment it's still a logistical problem. Even if it's not a refrigerator that you bought, you're still the only one who knows what's wrong with it, and the maintenance people are going to show up at arbitrary times when it's least convenient for you.
Wouldn’t it be the landlords obligation? Every place I have rented, I communicated with landlord on issue and they arranged the contractor and if I was unavailable, arranged to let the contractor in while I was out.
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by White Coat Investor »

ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Tue Sep 03, 2024 8:40 pm Hi Bogleheads friends and advisors,
I'm at a financial crossroads and could use some advice from this community.
Quick snapshot:
• Late thirties, single, medical professional
• $700k annual pre-tax income (expected to increase to $750k next year; almost half goes to taxes)
• $1.1M in equities (70% VTI, 15% VXUS, 15% BND; $100k in Vanguard Target Date Fund)
• $550k cash on hand accumulated over the past years
• No debt, car paid off
• Currently renting: $2,200/month all-inclusive
Career situation: I've established a strong subspecialty practice at my hospital. They need me more than I need them due to recent retirements. While I'm open to opportunities, I don't have other job prospects on the horizon that match my current autonomy and job interest. However, I lack faith in the administrators and fear they may change my job conditions in the next few years if recruitment picks up.
This has led to a housing search over the past 5 months. I've found a house listed at $530k. My realtor said this was overpriced and suggested $480k as fair. I offered $485k, which the owners accepted, but I'm having second thoughts.
Financial considerations:
• I can save about $15k monthly
• Planning to maintain a $150k emergency fund
• Annual property taxes would be $6-7k
• Estimated maintenance costs: 1-3% of purchase price annually
The cash I've accumulated was initially for an investment property, but I've decided against being a landlord. Now I'm wondering if using it for a primary residence is wise. I accumulated this large amount of cash over the past 3 years, thinking I needed to buy a house as part of my diversification strategy. I don't need a house and am happy renting, but I thought owning property would be beneficial.
However, I'm having cold feet and unsure what to do (I've lost sleep over this). [Unnecessary comments removed - moderator Kendall]
I would greatly appreciate your advice. Should I buy the house? Should I stay flexible and invest my money in VTI/VXUS/BND at the same allocation? Should I buy treasury bonds? I'm torn on what the most conservative approach would be. I'm not a businessman; I just know medicine and will continue to work hard in my field, but I want peace of mind and some "FU" money if things go south.
Thank you in advance for your insights.
Buy the house. Congrats on your success!
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by White Coat Investor »

ResponsibleGoal1217 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2024 6:10 am
As a physician without a financial background, can anyone recommend the best up-to-date book on asset allocation strategy suitable for someone with my background? I'm looking for guidance on making informed investment decisions that consider my unique situation as a high-income medical professional.
Thank you all again for your guidance. It's been invaluable in helping me navigate these financial decisions.
You don't need an "up to date" AA book and you're not that unique. My AA hasn't changed in many years and 95% of personal finance and investing is the same for everyone. But if you want to know about that other 5%, I've got a few books and thousands of blog posts ready for you. Enjoy.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
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Re: High-Income Medical Professional Seeking Advice on Housing Purchase vs. Investment

Post by tibbitts »

snowday2022 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 8:08 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 5:20 pm
snowday2022 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 4:46 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 12:56 pm
snowday2022 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2024 12:13 pm I make almost 1M per yr and my wife is a SAHM. I am happy to throw money at plumbers, electricians, handymen etc to fix problems with my house. I never bargain, or shop around for these services. Still, they only come between 8 and 5, often on little notice, and often when my wife is doing school pickup and drop off. I am never home between those hours. Without a spouse, I would have to take days off to get problems around my house fixed, or hire a butler.
Can't most service providers do what they do without an escort if you've taken reasonable precautions? Or couldn't you coordinate with someone you hire and have at the house anyway (like a housekeeper)?
Theoretically yes you are correct. Wife does not like idea of strangers unsupervised in the house. I don’t really either. Often the worker needs to talk to somebody who knows the problem with the fridge, outlet etc. and I am not available to even answer a phone call during business hours if I’m operating etc. So for OP it’s possible he could handle all of this stuff on his own, but it would be a pain.
I agree that of course it's better to not have a contractor unsupervised in the house, but in an apartment it's still a logistical problem. Even if it's not a refrigerator that you bought, you're still the only one who knows what's wrong with it, and the maintenance people are going to show up at arbitrary times when it's least convenient for you.
Wouldn’t it be the landlords obligation? Every place I have rented, I communicated with landlord on issue and they arranged the contractor and if I was unavailable, arranged to let the contractor in while I was out.
But that's not any different than having your high-tech house allow the contractor in and monitor whatever he/she was doing. I think the issue is that some very specific interaction with the service person might be required that only you - the person experiencing the problem - could provide. In the case of the apartment, since you aren't paying the contractor, you could just let them take a swing at the problem a time or two or ten, while in theory with your own house you might be on the hook for additional visits if your lack of interactive availability contributed to not fixing the problem the first time.
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